i feel like dante is too good ?

[MrDugan]

The main issue is Overguard, and any frame that can give it to the team ruining other's builds.  That's the only real issue I see with Dante.

"Oh, but he's OP."  He's OP in Hydron.  So are dozens, literally dozens of other frames.  He's "dominate" right now because he's the new thing, relatively easy to get because of an actually reasonable grind, and doesn't have insane build requirements like tons of other frames.  Anyone that knows what they're doing can nuke sortie 3 and under missions.  There are frames so old they've been reworked multiple times that can nuke these levels.  Is it "disruptive?"  About as much as any other number of things, from Gauss, Saryn, Mirage and several other "nuke" frames.  About as much as disruptive abilities like Limbo or Frost forcing the team to play around them, rather than with them.  About as disruptive as tons of specific loadouts, from the main stream to the niche, like some Melee Influence based loadouts.  About as disruptive as AOE.

And do you know what you did to AOE?  You nerfed it so hard that it's barely worth using any of those weapons.  And people are going to jump down my throat about how it's all still totally viable, but I never see AOE weapons anymore.  I almost never see people using Bramma anymore.  Because viable or not, being super limited in use made them not fun to use.  It's a hoard shooter.  I go and I look at the things you've nerfed over the years and your track record of actually nerfing something and it still being fun and viable after the fact is abysmal.  Most things you nerf end up in the MR fodder pile afterward.  I have less than zero faith in you to nerf anything, at all, ever.  I used to be a Khora main.  Long before the SE farms that got her nerfed.  Everyone says that the LOS change totally isn't that bad, but to me, it's utterly infuriating to cast Whipclaw multiple times on the same fully exposed enemy and not hit it because of janky LOS code.

It's not just the fact that I don't trust you to nerf Dante and not be heavy handed though.  It's the fact that all the rest of the "disruptive" gear and builds will still exist.  And if you go and you nerf all of them, then the next best thing will be the thing complained about.  Because just like someone is going to come in this thread and moan about how you can always count on people to cry about any nerf at all, you can also always count on certain types of players to complain that other people are being more effective than their meme-tier build, and whine about how everything that isn't their build should get nerfed.  And other than the completely reasonable overguard complaints, those are the people whining that Dante is OP.  Because he's not.

He's an endgame frame that actually functions reasonably well in Steel Path.  And regardless of the "we won't balance for SP." you need to.  Because you keep putting stuff in SP.  And you keep making content with SP-like modifiers, like Archon Hunts, Netracells, and Deep Arcamedia.  Any gear that is even barely viable for SP is going to dominate in basic fissures and starchart missions.  He's new, he's strong enough for endgame with a decent build, and that means he's everywhere right now.  Even I am minorly annoyed if I'm trying to level and frame in Hydron and here's Dante taking all the kills, slowing down my affinity spread.  But I'm not calling for nerfs.  There's far mor disruptive and annoying mechanics in the game right now.  You still haven't done anything about the intentional/unintentional griefing in Netracells because people refuse to kill inside the circle.  You haven't even acknowledged that, and it's making me start to despise the mode.  But the new frame is actually good and doesn't need reworks right out of the gate so we gotta fix that pronto, right?

[Threa]

What you guys do to Dante will determine whether I keep playing and supporting this game. He is the reason I came back from a long hiatus, and he alone has reinvigorated my interest in and passion for the game. I've wanted a powerful caster frame for so long that fits the magic or wizard theme, and we finally have this, which makes me beyond happy.

I understand I am one player, and you have to make sure my fun doesn't disrupt the fun of others, but I implore you to be very, very careful with how you adjust him because we dedicate our time, money, and heart into this game and especially to new Warframes like Dante, so when you nerf things like this that we purchased and have put our time into, I believe this reflects how DE sees and regards their players. I also watch videos from content creators that you support, which determines whether or not I buy a Warframe or other items; nerfing something that I purchased based on my research and watching your content creators can dissolve some of my trust in you and your content creators and will greatly increase my hesitance to support the game.

Thank you for all you do and for creating an amazing and fun Warframe like Dante! :)

[(PSN)rexis12]

4 minutes ago, Xenevier said:

see that part about needing an augment?

"So what if this one ability completely demolishes the balance of the game and is even worse than this other frame that we are complaining about. He needs to sacrifice ONE Mod Slot! That's totally balanced!!!!"

[Xenevier]

1 minute ago, Threa said:

What you guys do to Dante will determine whether I keep playing and supporting this game. He is the reason I came back from a long hiatus, and he alone has reinvigorated my interest in and passion for the game. I've wanted a powerful caster frame for so long that fits the magic or wizard theme, and we finally have this, which makes me beyond happy.

I understand I am one player, and you have to make sure my fun doesn't disrupt the fun of others, but I implore you to be very, very careful with how you adjust him because we dedicate our time, money, and heart into this game and especially to new Warframes like Dante, so when you nerf things like this that we purchased and have put our time into, I believe this reflects how DE sees and regards their players. I also watch videos from content creators that you support, which determines whether or not I buy a Warframe or other items; nerfing something that I purchased based on my research and watching your content creators can dissolve some of my trust in you and your content creators and will greatly increase my hesitance to support the game.

Thank you for all you do and for creating an amazing and fun Warframe like Dante! :)

he wont change as much as people are complaining about, dante will be just fine, dont worry, even if he gets nerfed, he will be alright

2 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

"So what if this one ability completely demolishes the balance of the game and is even worse than this other frame that we are complaining about. He needs to sacrifice ONE Mod Slot! That's totally balanced!!!!"

do you not realize that rev is the tank frame that is made for survivability while dante is a jack of all trades? revenant cannot do the damage dante does, revenant at a base kit cannot give his team as much survivability as dante does, revenant cannot prodie the utility that dante does ... and thats fine, its the same with wukong or volt, they do a little bit of everything

[Sir-Lorkhan]

The frame isnt even 1 week old and they are already going to gut him. What about Nezha and his new augment? Maybe work on that, after all, now Nezha is MUCH MORE automated and dominant with his new augment. Gut him too then. Oh no you wont because god's forbid we nerf only fun stuff.

 

If they nerf Dante, I want a refund on all the forma I put on him then. After all, if he becomes trash, why should I pay for it?

So now if a warframe is good, it gets gutted in less than a week but if it's trash, it takes more than 6 years to buff him? What is warframe? A power fantasy or a real life simulator??

Edited April 3 by Sir-Lorkhan

[(PSN)rexis12]

4 minutes ago, Xenevier said:

revenant cannot do the damage dante does

Oh so now it's the Damage that's the issue then, not the his Over guard is too strong and is disruptive. 

does he do better than dedicated nukers? Probably not. 

Does he tank better than dedicated Tanks? You said it yourself, he doesn't. 

Does he heal better than dedicated Supports (as much as that matters lmao), hell if I have to guess probably not. 

So he's a Jack of All that doesn't do any better than dedicated roles. 

What's the issue then. 

[Binket_]

And here we go again...

Look, I used Dante for a good ye olde college try and while looking at his kit objectively? I'mma be real here:
You took the typical role of a "Tank", a "DPS" and a "Support" and turned into him not a "Jack of All Trades", but a "Supreme Overlord of All Trades".
Overguard in droves, Slash procs to everything and their next of kin, Status Chance boosting even if that somehow isn't enough and a book that allows you to boost every stat.
^{This thing is like if Pokemon made "Ancient Power" get a 100% chance to boost every stat... thrice. For anyone who gets that anyway. It's broken in a childish kinda way.}

I was going to write a long summary of what he can do... but lemme just say these points instead:

• He has an ability that gives everyone- including NPCs or Pets- well over 30k Overguard.
  • Which can be expanded upon to automatically regenerate.
• He also has an ability that can do extreme Slash Damage with a forced Proc.
  • Which can be expanded to just nuke things radially ala Expedite Suffering effects, but stronger.
• This isn't even counting the fact that he can duplicate Noctua shots (of which are nutty as is) onto every, boost Status out the wazoo with Paragrimms or his passive... and definitely not mentioning that his subsume is not even remotely lowered in power.

 

But I think the problem more lies in that his 2 is required in some capacity to make 75% of his 4th work.
And that his 3 makes him way too good at damaging.
 

I think lowering the values of both is not out of the question, frankly put.
Even if you didn't touch his Slash damage-- the Overguard is simply TOO MUCH for what it requires. (A single button press)
Even Styanax and Frost have to hit targets to increase their numbers. Dante gets it for free and on EVERYONE.

If they reduce the amount given per cast (even if they don't touch the cap as much), it'll still incentivize Dante to cast his 2 more than a couple of times and than "whenever he needs a buff".

[Xenevier]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Oh so now it's the Damage that's the issue then, not the his Over guard is too strong and is disruptive. 

does he do better than dedicated nukers? Probably not. 

Does he tank better than dedicated Tanks? You said it yourself, he doesn't. 

Does he heal better than dedicated Supports (as much as that matters lmao), hell if I have to guess probably not. 

So he's a Jack of All that doesn't do any better than dedicated roles. 

What's the issue then. 

he does do a better job at the overguard share. thats why the overguard is the issue and damage isnt.

no one wants any tweaking for his damage, among styanax and frost and dante, he is objectively by FAR the best option to share overguard in a very fast efficient and team wide amount

[Sir-Lorkhan]

il y a 6 minutes, (PSN)rexis12 a dit :

Oh so now it's the Damage that's the issue then, not the his Over guard is too strong and is disruptive. 

does he do better than dedicated nukers? Probably not. 

Does he tank better than dedicated Tanks? You said it yourself, he doesn't. 

Does he heal better than dedicated Supports (as much as that matters lmao), hell if I have to guess probably not. 

So he's a Jack of All that doesn't do any better than dedicated roles. 

What's the issue then. 

Dante isnt a problem lol. Just look at Nezha and his new augment. Much more brain dead, automated and dominant than Dante. So nerf Nezha then look at the game. Or Maybe make weaker frames better. 

We know how its going to end, it's going to be like Styanax. He was great at lanch. But they gutted him to the ground. And they had to give a band aid augment to save the damn thing. 

So now good frames get nerf in less than a 1 week of existence but bad frames need to wait 6 years for a buff. Way to go DE.

 

I HOPE YOU REFUND ALL THE FORMA WE PUT INTO DANTE WHEN YOU'LL NERF HIM TO THE GROUND

[MrDugan]

And honestly, another thing:

How does it only take a week of people crushing Hydron with Dante and DE's getting out the nerf bat, but it takes literal years of complaints for them to even consider looking at frames or abilities that need buffs?  They literally had the hard data in front of them about abilities and frames (based on helminth numbers.) that were considered trash by everyone with a helminth and not just a vocal minority on the forums, and they did nothing with most of it, and took forever to act on anything they have acted on.  But the first week of Dante being out (you know, the time when everyone will be playing him because he's brand new and doesn't suck.) and devs are already on the case.

Keep that same energy for literally anything else.  Long-standing issues with frames and weapon, as well as bugs that have existed forever.  

[Voltage]

To all these people saying that the sky is falling. Would you prefer the frame tweaked in 5 days, or become problematic for 5 years? DE isn't looking to obliterate Dante either, just a couple tweaks.

I much rather DE make tweaks quickly and iron them out shortly after release than something being left alone for multiple years like Maiming Strike, Primed Sure Footed, or Helminth and become a key problem with the game's balance and general gameplay.

[Arbitrary]

8 minutes ago, Sir-Lorkhan said:

We know how its going to end, it's going to be like Styanax. He was great at lanch. But they gutted him to the ground. And they had to give a band aid augment to save the damn thing. 

Talk about revisionist history. None of Stynax's nerfs impacted him majorly at all.

[(PSN)rexis12]

11 minutes ago, Xenevier said:

he does do a better job at the overguard share. thats why the overguard is the issue and damage isnt.

Lmao but his Overguard is worse than both Mesmer Skin and the share is worse than the Augment, meaning that if this is an 'issue' it's a completely meaningless issue that has an already bigger problem that's being ignored meaning that this talk of balance is complete horsecrap. 

[Sir-Lorkhan]

il y a 1 minute, Arbitrary a dit :

Talk about revisionist history. None of Stynax's nerfs impacted him majorly at all.

Your joking? From the most played frame at the time, he got wrecked to the ground. And only got back up because of his band aid mod for his 4. What was the problem with him being able to cast his power in the air. Bloody Zephyr exists. 

[Boddypenn]

So, I get there’s a lot of worry and frustration because of the announced nerfs, but let’s be completely honest here: the game has been quietly critiqued in the background for being too easy for a long time. Personally, I don’t think the Dante from the user’s perspective is the issue, and I think that’s why a lot of people are saying he doesn’t need a nerf, because they’re the ones using him.

 

A super simple and easy change i think, is reduce the amount of overguard you provide to the team, and make the cap lower. Even if it’s a massive nerf down to 50%, it’s still gonna be a super valuable side effect, and it doesn’t completely invalidate defensive utility from Frost or Styanax (in regards to overguard)

 

A Dante specific change, could even be something like scaling overguard, so the more you have, the less you generate for yourself (potentially others too), and maybe in return, give another part of his kit, maybe less performing such as the owls, something like “increased shield charge rate when damage is dealt” just to take away from the overguard focus, but still provide that defensive/ utility aspect of his kit in a pronounced way.

 

If damage is a concern, increasing synergy could help a lot with the dark verse, such as lowering the damage it deals, but the 2x dark verse cast provides a small faction damage increase, something around only 10% unmodded, with a potential 15% decrease in the damage of dark verse, so that the buff scales with abilities, and still allows supportive synergy, while making the ‘spam dark verse, everything dies’ play style he can bring to the table, WHILE still pumping everyone with unholy amounts of overguard, much less dominant and stops the game from feeling like a spectator sport, since it currently feels ever so slightly too similar to Limbo banish trolling back before his many reworks.

 

I know there’s a very slim chance DE will make any of these changes, and it may end up just being a numbers tweak, and an even slimmer chance they even read this, but rebalancing his kit is definitely the right move, since as someone who hasn’t been using Dante, the game has kinda become super easy for just sitting next to one. Not only that, but I really think redistributing offensive and defensive buffs throughout his kit would make him feel so much more involved as a caster, and as a support frame, and I hope however he ends up, people are still happy!

Edited April 3 by Boddypenn

[Arbitrary]

Just now, Sir-Lorkhan said:

Your joking? From the most played frame at the time, he got wrecked to the ground. And only got back up because of his band aid mod for his 4. What was the problem with him being able to cast his power in the air. Bloody Zephyr exists. 

The needing to touch the ground again before recasting Final Stand was not a major nerf. If that's "wrecked to the ground" for you, then any change at all to Dante, no matter how minor would be "gutting" him according to you.

[Xenevier]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Lmao but his Overguard is worse than both Mesmer Skin and the share is worse than the Augment, meaning that if this is an 'issue' it's a completely meaningless issue that has an already bigger problem that's being ignored meaning that this talk of balance is complete horsecrap. 

the share is objectively better than the augment, he can share about 15k with 224, while styanax can share about 6k with every spear hit, ofc it isnt as good as mesmer skin, mesmer skin is THE survivability ability that rev for the most part is about

[Unrealius]

5 часов назад, 16Bitman сказал:

I find it strange they're saying they're looking into nerfing him because he "dominates".

Of course people are flocking to the actually good, hyped up and easy to farm brand new Warframe, which was released just before a 4 day weekend.

 

Give it at least 2 weeks before you decide too many people play him.

Agree, I played Dante, yes yes is cool.
Yes overshield   could  ruin other frames setups. (QUESTION  TO DE  how come that you didnt see that will happen?)
Who is responsible? Same person that was manage ammo issues?   Where are bows now? Hello bows??? Hellooo???  Amazign balance.
Want to see what you will do with Dante. I bet it will be holywar and I will be there too..

I have idea to ho beat overshield issue for ANY frame.
 !!!!!!!!!!!      IF   Player(Warframe) have mods that are potentially will not working because of OverShield  then  any overshield buss will JUST NOT WORKING ON THEM.
Want others buff you? dont use mods that are affected.  Its 100%  WIN WIN  combo.
   In another way, there is nothing chat can point on Dante nerfs.   (fix - yes)  nerf - no.
When 4 Wisp in team its ok
When 3 Saryn - its ok
When 4 Revenants or now Inaros   - its ofc ok
2-4 Dante in team after less that week after release.... NEEEEERF :D    crazy

Please. Everyone who farm 9999. Go outside, look at nature. Relax. Take a breath of fresh air.  If outside its not great for you ,  chill  - take  a break and do meditation(just be silent and calm).
And all problems will gone.
Just remember.
NO MATTER WHAT. There will be somone better than you. Always!  Stronger, Faster, Smarter

Edited April 3 by Unrealius

[poop2much]

vets are coming back and having fun, of course they are itching to nerf stuff... oh well, i had a new fav frame... time to head off to other games soon it seems see you likely around summer warframe, maybe one day they will test this stuff properly b4 release.. so they don't have to ruin peoples fun and enjoyment.. cause one of these times i and many wont be back

[Safronka]

I support all of the above. Dante initially felt like it was created based on game modes that were added to the game relatively recently. Steel Path, Cells of Netra, Hunt for Archons. All of these modes require a significant amount of playability from the game's gear, and I feel like Dante was designed with these modes in mind, not anything that existed in Warframe before they came out. Modern new players have long been reluctant to master the numerous game content presented in the game, and absolutely everyone in the early game stages strives to get equipment in SP mode. And so it turns out that this complicated mode is now apparently becoming an example for the development of new game characters, which, after being added to the game, immediately need to be weakened and remade. I have not been a gaming novice for a long time, but I noticed a long time ago that any of your rethinking for the most part pushes the majority of old players to abandon the converted equipment. And here, in fact, the new game product turned out to be more powerful than most of the existing in-game equipment and immediately requires reworking in favor of weakening. The SP mode for everyone has become the main one for the game today, although initially, as I understand it, it was intended as a kind of challenge for experienced players. I played Dante on regular missions and it really turned out that the player doesn’t feel the game’s difficulty at all. At one time, I was able to play in the raids that existed at that time in the game, which really pushed players to take a meaningful approach when completing missions, and equipment required due attention given the difficulty inherent in these raids. If you already added the Steel Path mode to the game, then it was probably necessary to leave only essences of steel in it as rewards, and derive everything else from rewards and over time add something new and rewarding to this mode, explaining the presented difficulty. But in reality, new players completely ignore the normal mode and search for gaming equipment aimed at playing specifically in the Steel Path mode. And if the same Dante was created with an emphasis on this particular mode, taking into account the new game modes added recently, then perhaps it is worth rethinking the Steel Path itself and gaining access to this mode among new players.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

And there you are.

[(PSN)rexis12]

8 minutes ago, Xenevier said:

the share is objectively better than the augment, he can share about 15k with 224, while styanax can share about 6k with every spear hit,

 

8 minutes ago, Xenevier said:

mesmer skin is THE survivability ability that rev for the most part is about

Oh so you're fine with completely disruptive defensive abilities, so long as it doesn't belong to Dante then? 

[Xenevier]

1 minute ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

 

Oh so you're fine with completely disruptive defensive abilities, so long as it doesn't belong to Dante then? 

oh no i dont think its bad that its on dante, if mesa could give everyone 50k overguard i would say the same thing, but you clearly arent trying to see the point here so theres no point in arguing anymore, have a nice day 

[Unrealius]

44 минуты назад, Binket_ сказал:

And here we go again...

Look, I used Dante for a good ye olde college try and while looking at his kit objectively? I'mma be real here:
You took the typical role of a "Tank", a "DPS" and a "Support" and turned into him not a "Jack of All Trades", but a "Supreme Overlord of All Trades".
Overguard in droves, Slash procs to everything and their next of kin, Status Chance boosting even if that somehow isn't enough and a book that allows you to boost every stat.
^{This thing is like if Pokemon made "Ancient Power" get a 100% chance to boost every stat... thrice. For anyone who gets that anyway. It's broken in a childish kinda way.}

I was going to write a long summary of what he can do... but lemme just say these points instead:

• He has an ability that gives everyone- including NPCs or Pets- well over 30k Overguard.
  • Which can be expanded upon to automatically regenerate.
• He also has an ability that can do extreme Slash Damage with a forced Proc.
  • Which can be expanded to just nuke things radially ala Expedite Suffering effects, but stronger.
• This isn't even counting the fact that he can duplicate Noctua shots (of which are nutty as is) onto every, boost Status out the wazoo with Paragrimms or his passive... and definitely not mentioning that his subsume is not even remotely lowered in power.

 

But I think the problem more lies in that his 2 is required in some capacity to make 75% of his 4th work.
And that his 3 makes him way too good at damaging.
 

I think lowering the values of both is not out of the question, frankly put.
Even if you didn't touch his Slash damage-- the Overguard is simply TOO MUCH for what it requires. (A single button press)
Even Styanax and Frost have to hit targets to increase their numbers. Dante gets it for free and on EVERYONE.

If they reduce the amount given per cast (even if they don't touch the cap as much), it'll still incentivize Dante to cast his 2 more than a couple of times and than "whenever he needs a buff".

   Did you tried to play him on SP without OP  weapons?(just remember) not everyone have all mods and weapons.
Dante have energy issues, to cast spells.   One more time
Full Dante cast route (for just skills)   1  223(better few times)  234   324     no we playing.   CALCULATE it.     10  - TEN casts  Karl!  Ten. And that on repeat.  Hope you have
1)constant energy gain
2)archon shards for cast  (ofc not everyone have it  that is min max gameplay already, and frame its not ok if you NEED use it to play more freely)
3)hope you have   long   skill duration     you think   45 sec its  alot?     9 cast = 9 sec minimum  so you have   36  open sec to play.
Do you want  stay 1-2 hours  recasting it?
4) hope you have strong fingers.
        Now count.   That is a payment to be good. He is not for everyone. Yes yes is good.  But honestly Im not best player and I like other frame better.
Octavia?  Revenant?  Kulervo?  And many other frames.

You are right with saying that need to wait.
maybe there will be some fixes, so it will be more comfortable to others play with Dante.
   DE could make  overhields optional for players to have.  Some kind of Little  On\off   will solve many problems.
Even with Kulervo.   Sometimes I want cast his 2 and NOT gain shields.

[(PSN)rexis12]

4 minutes ago, Xenevier said:

oh no i dont think its bad that its on dante, if mesa could give everyone 50k overguard i would say the same thing

Completely unrelated and completely different frame with a different skill set. You should instead focus on his his damage and Nuking potential with Mesa and maybe realise that she, as a dedicated Nuker and DPS, can clear faster than he can cast Dark Tragedy. 

But hey, that would require you to actually observe how they work and the disruptive nature of the abilities you claim to care about. 

9 minutes ago, Xenevier said:

no point in arguing anymore

Agree, considering you're fine with an even more Disruptive Ability than Dante's Over guard.