spintowin2.0

[xXDragonGodXx]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Want to make melee better? Fix the speed. Im running along then I swing my melee and suddenly I'm slo motion. It's ridiculous. This is my main gripe. The moment you swing it's like you enter a slow portal, only you. 

Faster weapons don't damage enough. Heavier weapons need quickening and berserker unless you have a unique frame like kullervo or sacrifice an arcane spot for melee speed which is conditional. The fact that melee needs two mod slots, an arcane, a possible volt spectre and an incarnon mode to be tolerable is ridiculous. 

Additionally losing everything to a nullifier if you don't one-hit-kill it is annoying.

i like melee but the speedometer fetch is offset too far on the slow side. A slight move to the fast will do wonders.

Then compensate for it with mods, arcanes or warframes instead of whining ;) if your build has 0.8 attack speed.. then what are you expecting? to feel like the flash? Deal with the build as a whole instead of only looking at the damage numbers and this problem should fix itself...

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

2 hours ago, xXDragonGodXx said:

Then compensate for it with mods, arcanes or warframes instead of whining ;)

Perhaps I wasn't clear but you don't understand my post. Not interested in clarifying since DE won't do anything anyway

[UnstarPrime]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Faster weapons don't damage enough. Heavier weapons need quickening and berserker unless you have a unique frame like kullervo or sacrifice an arcane spot for melee speed which is conditional. The fact that melee needs two mod slots, an arcane, a possible volt spectre and an incarnon mode to be tolerable is ridiculous. 

I'm curious what weapons you're using where you feel like you need that much speed enhancement.  I think the only weapon I actually use that still feels a bit slow after Primed Fury is the Arca Titron, which is a weapon I somehow still use periodically before I'm reminded how clunky it feels to use hammers in Warframe (or at least, that's how it feels for me).

 

7 hours ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Additionally losing everything to a nullifier if you don't one-hit-kill it is annoying.

I've consistently found that if I stay outside of their bubble, I can melee Nullifier bubbles which will shrink them to the point where I can get the actual friend inside without being nullified.  In my experience there even seems to be some degree of forgiveness when doing this, as while meleeing I will sometimes partially slip inside the bubble due to an attack moving me forward, but this generally doesn't result in being nullified.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2024-03-30 at 9:19 AM, _Anise_ said:

Guns were given arcane adapters because they were behind melee in hard content _/

Melee got better with hold to attack _/

Melee have been given arcane adaptors because ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Melee are now vastly superior in hard content _/

why?

 

ps:Guns with single chambers that need to be spammed still exist

I think the mistake is that people keep referencing hard content as the metric. It is not and should never be. We're supposed to assemble our best arsenal and go for it. It's just that DE has done a great job of making a liar out of OP, as melee is not vastly superior to guns. 

My Spectra Vandal, for example, has such a potent output, that I have to constantly remind myself that it only requires a half second press of the fire button to destroy fully armored SP gunners. I demo'd this to friends and blew their mind...because they were told the weapon was trash. I then used the old Veykor Hek and Dex Sybaris to prove similar strengths. 

I say all of this because we are already in a GREAT, FANTASTIC place in Warframe where 99.5% of every weapon, every frame, every companion is very much high performing, even in SP. It's the user who determines how good a weapon is and we are supposed to understand when a utility is more important than how fast to a kill. I think we need to stop trying to get some sort of boost to things all of the time. Eventually we'll just be at a mundane standstill because every weapon is asked to perform nearly the same. Do we really want to end up there?

[Joezone619]

IMO they never really fixed the issue, just offset it. All the things they added in the update that was supposed to bring guns up to par with melee, are conditionals. On top of that, you need to kill to get the damage boost, AS IN THE WEAPON NEEDS TO ALREADY BE RELIABLY STRONG.

We needed buffs to mods like serration, hornet strike, more raw damage, not a bunch of "kill stuff, get boost"

Edited April 2 by Joezone619

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

1 hour ago, UnstarPrime said:

after Primed Fury

You've piqued my interest. Primed Fury doesn't exist in Warframe. At least in the companion app codex nor my inventory. Perhaps this mod would help me but I seem to be in a parallel universe of barren mediocrity 

[rahetalius4.2.0CE]

22 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

You've piqued my interest. Primed Fury doesn't exist in Warframe. At least in the companion app codex nor my inventory. Perhaps this mod would help me but I seem to be in a parallel universe of barren mediocrity 

Primed fury does exist in warframe, it's a login reward item.

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

19 minutes ago, rahetalius4.2.0CE said:

Primed fury does exist in warframe, it's a login reward item.

Strange it's not in my codex. 

[rahetalius4.2.0CE]

35 minutes ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Strange it's not in my codex. 

IIRC login rewards don't show up in the codex until you have them now. (I can't check myself since I have all of the login rewards, yes, even the funny lodestar armor), but is a mod, I have it,

Max rank provides 55% extra speed.

Edited April 2 by rahetalius4.2.0CE
added extra bit to end

[Pakaku]

On 2024-03-30 at 11:07 AM, MBaldelli said:

The primary reason why we got melee arcanes and Tennokai was to entice the players from Destiny II, COD, R6S, and so many other games involving shooting enemies to death was to entice the them out of the rut of running & gunning only and using melee beyond the typical hatred and trolling stigma of bringing a knife to a gunfight.  Whether this is truly working remains to be seen (as we don't see the spreadsheets DE sees with builds and outputs, so we can only go based on limited observation).

I'll stick to my guns. Tennokai is a failure as long as it's random, I'm not going to be saving my heavy attacks for just any random enemy, and melee is still boring beyond compare as long as the combat is so basic. They gave it a good try with Duviri, but that style of combat can't translate to the regular game. It just seems like a dead-end.

Edited April 2 by Pakaku

[rahetalius4.2.0CE]

45 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

I'll stick to my guns. Tennokai is a failure as long as it's random, I'm not going to be saving my heavy attacks for just any random enemy, and melee is still boring beyond compare as long as the combat is so basic. They gave it a good try with Duviri, but that style of combat can't translate to the regular game. It just seems like a dead-end.

I'd say for melee try out soulframe when that comes out, so far is hitting the right boxes in the melee department (is the main form of combat, so it kinda has too, but y'know)

[xXDragonGodXx]

7 hours ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Perhaps I wasn't clear but you don't understand my post. Not interested in clarifying since DE won't do anything anyway

No, as a melee main, I could understand your frustration perfectly well. What you don't seem to understand is the fact that you have a plethora of melee weapons to choose from that aren't slow. And if you want to do swordfights at the speed of a Jedi then you can very well use mods, arcane's or different Warframes to do so. Whining about it will not make DE change how the melee system works to benefit 1 person's gripe about it. And just saying that you're not interested in clarifying, regardless of DE making a change or not, tells me everything I need to know.

[Berzerkules]

14 hours ago, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

Want to make melee better? Fix the speed. Im running along then I swing my melee and suddenly I'm slo motion. It's ridiculous. This is my main gripe. The moment you swing it's like you enter a slow portal, only you. 

Faster weapons don't damage enough. Heavier weapons need quickening and berserker unless you have a unique frame like kullervo or sacrifice an arcane spot for melee speed which is conditional. The fact that melee needs two mod slots, an arcane, a possible volt spectre and an incarnon mode to be tolerable is ridiculous. 

Additionally losing everything to a nullifier if you don't one-hit-kill it is annoying.

i like melee but the speedometer fetch is offset too far on the slow side. A slight move to the fast will do wonders.

If your melee feels slow I'm curious how you build a melee weapon because my experience with melee is the polar opposite. I don't main any frame but I do main melee and I've learned a thing or two about a thing or two.

I think you are trying to build for OHKO instead of death by a thousand cuts. I look at most melee as aoe damage not single target burst dps. I prioritize speed and range to maximize my ability to apply status effects to as many targets as quick as possible. 

There are definitely some outlier melee weapons/classes with extremely slow base attack speed and/or slow stance options like heavy blades and hammers. I'll build stuff like Gram Prime, Tenet Livia and Karyst Prime with 2 sources of attack speed because I feel they are unusable without it. However, there are enough weapons classes like dual swords, tonfas, nikanas, claws, daggers and swords that have multiple viable options in each class with decent base attack speed and good quick stances that only a single source of attack speed is required. 

The recent addition of tennokai, melee arcanes and incarnons have significantly increased viable options for melee weapons. Before it was pretty much hybrid crit/status builds on slash weighted weapons but now pure status builds with influence and little to no slash at all can out kps old builds. Like I have a RDD riven with -100%+ CC and I routinely hit 9k+ kph solo with it and have topped 13k kph on speedva. High speed, range and status weapons are really good right now.

Anyways, link me some builds, bet I could help.

[xXDragonGodXx]

11 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Like I have a RDD riven with -100%+ CC and I routinely hit 9k+ kph solo with it and have topped 13k kph on speedva. High speed, range and status weapons are really good right now.

Don't know what you mean by RDD? But with a 9k+ KPH as you word it, you would be looking at 150 KPM which is good. I haven't done any Speedva Melee builds yet, as I find her somewhat squishy solo SP.

14 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

I think you are trying to build for OHKO instead of death by a thousand cuts. I look at most melee as aoe damage not single target burst dps. I prioritize speed and range to maximize my ability to apply status effects to as many targets as quick as possible. 

This is what I'm also thinking that he is doing, but I don't really agree with melee as an AOE, but that's just playstyle. As my playstyle is more aggressive than anyone I have ever actually played with or seen, in the sense that I will actively look for groups of enemies, instead of killing whatever comes to me or whatever shows up in a given area. I do wonder what melee weapons you are "maining" or using actively tho. :)

[xXDragonGodXx]

5 hours ago, Pakaku said:

I'll stick to my guns. Tennokai is a failure as long as it's random, I'm not going to be saving my heavy attacks for just any random enemy, and melee is still boring beyond compare as long as the combat is so basic. They gave it a good try with Duviri, but that style of combat can't translate to the regular game. It just seems like a dead-end.

I can understand this sentiment only if you are a run-and-gunner, as you will most likely not see the tennokai symbol activate as often if you don't focus more on melee. And it being random does not make it a failure... it's very good, and needing to wait a couple of seconds to have it activate is nothing in the grander scheme of things.

[Berzerkules]

9 minutes ago, xXDragonGodXx said:

Don't know what you mean by RDD? But with a 9k+ KPH as you word it, you would be looking at 150 KPM which is good. I haven't done any Speedva Melee builds yet, as I find her somewhat squishy solo SP.

This is what I'm also thinking that he is doing, but I don't really agree with melee as an AOE, but that's just playstyle. As my playstyle is more aggressive than anyone I have ever actually played with or seen, in the sense that I will actively look for groups of enemies, instead of killing whatever comes to me or whatever shows up in a given area. I do wonder what melee weapons you are "maining" or using actively tho. :)

RDD=Rakta Dark Dagger. It's good for gas electric builds with amalgam argonak mod for aoe armor strip. What's also cool is lingering gas clouds regen shields so you don't need to fully regen shields in a single cast to efficiently reset shield gate. Kind of like a passive shield regen that's spread by influence but it also strips armor. I use this on solo speedva a lot. 

I build melee fast with a lot of range. When your melee weapons hits multiple times a second and has 7.5-9+ range I consider it aoe damage. It really comes down to playstyle though, if you actively move around with slide attacks and specific melee combos you can cover a lot of ground quickly and take out huge packs. Using grouping abilities or nautilus cordon really helps with melee kps averages as well.

I use too many melee to list but you can check anyone's profile in game by typing /profile username and sort by used and check kill count/used and compare that to their playtime to get a good idea of what they use and how much they've used it. 

[xXDragonGodXx]

14 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

I use too many melee to list but you can check anyone's profile in game by typing /profile username and sort by used and check kill count/used and compare that to their playtime to get a good idea of what they use and how much they've used it. 

I know xD but thanks for telling me xD

[Pakaku]

10 hours ago, xXDragonGodXx said:

I can understand this sentiment only if you are a run-and-gunner, as you will most likely not see the tennokai symbol activate as often if you don't focus more on melee. And it being random does not make it a failure... it's very good, and needing to wait a couple of seconds to have it activate is nothing in the grander scheme of things.

It's a system that feels too focused on expecting me to dedicate myself to melee, and it feels like the only worthwhile Tennokai mod is the one that guaranteed an opportunity every four hits, which of course is a rare drop...

It's also awful that the system is even tied to mods in the first place, which only drop in the very last rotation in a late-game mission. It needs to be an innate system like Parazon finishers, which are available immediately as you start the game.

But like I said, it's hard to want to melee or even use my whole loadout equally when the combat is so plain and boring. I'd rather be able to do something like use my whole loadout and still be able to save up some combo for Blood Rush or heavy attacks when I want to melee, which is where something like the Rauta does an excellent job.

Even finisher chances can be influenced by stacking impact damage on any of my weapons... yet Tennokai is still melee-specific.

15 hours ago, rahetalius4.2.0CE said:

I'd say for melee try out soulframe when that comes out, so far is hitting the right boxes in the melee department (is the main form of combat, so it kinda has too, but y'know)

I don't know how interested I am in actually playing it, but I am very glad they realised that it needed to be its own game, and not just another load of unrelated side-content shoehorned into this game.

Edited April 2 by Pakaku

[rahetalius4.2.0CE]

4 hours ago, Pakaku said:

I don't know how interested I am in actually playing it, but I am very glad they realised that it needed to be its own game, and not just another load of unrelated side-content shoehorned into this game.

Well, it's less of warframe 2 and more of Steve's pet project that he actually wants to invest time into, is why the teams are split into warframe and soulframe now, (the soulframe devs improved the engine a bit for the lighting in that game, they tried to implement the lighting from that into the orbiter/drifter camp this update, but uhhh.. is 50/50, you got people saying bestest lighting ever, other saying "why is snow man blue" my take on it is: soulframe handles the system better.)

[Berzerkules]

19 hours ago, xXDragonGodXx said:

I know xD but thanks for telling me xD

I didn't have a lot of time to go into all the melee I liked and why earlier. 

Alright, so my long time favorites are nami skyla prime and kronen prime. Sovereign outcast and swirling tiger stances are just too much fun to use especially with their multi hit combos. Both of those weapons are basically identical with fast base attack speed, high slash weight, high status chance and decent crits. Pretty much anything that has slash weight ~70% and 20% crit and status falls into this endlessly scaling slash monster category that includes stuff like reaper prime, venka prime, nikana prime, dakra prime, broken war, gunsen, prisma dual cleavers and one of my favorite sleeper weapons dual ether with a 1.45 dispo. This was my goto category of melee weapons for the longest time. There was not much reason to change.

I like niche stuff like armor strip gas or gas/electric daggers with argonak as well. So I used rakta dark dagger, karyst prime, balla for quite a while, the recently added incarnon ceramic dagger and innodem also got added to the mix. Infested weapons like caustacyst and keratinos are cool too because they have base corrosive and viral on them which can make for some fun builds. Keratinos is the predecessor to incarnons imo with it's ~3m range for 3 minutes on 12x heavy attack that is unique to the weapon with 6 hits that all force proc slash. What really got me about these two weapons was they had high status and could be build for both corrosive and viral, self priming melee weapons that had to be built totally different that slash based ones. It was a fun puzzle to figure out and test multiple rivens. Zaws are also a fun rabbit hole to explore, I was into exodia hunt heavy blade dokrahm for a bit before helminth because I could group enemies with ground slams of heavy blade stances and I could build for speed unlike most other heavy blades. Exodia contagion builds are always fun too. One of the most useful ways I've found to use a contagion zaw is on Mag since I can throw the zaw through her bubble and pick off eximus units that I can't cc. My kronsh machete zaw with a cd/dmg/- riven on is is Mag's whacking stick. Jat Kusar used to be a beast with old gas when it was tox damage. I loved that thing. Dark split sword has always been one of my favorites, I wish that the heavy blade and dual sword crit and status stats were switched and you could swap vbetween both forms in mission though. Tenet Livia stance sucks but it's combo pausing gimmick is damn useful for heavy attacks in disruption. I rolled several rivens hundreds of times looking for heavy attack efficiency and other useful stats to tap demos. 

I could keep going, there are a lot of melee weapons I like and many of them get put on the back burner because there are so many good options. I get hooked on finding what I consider to be as close to perfect a riven for specific melee weapons,  running them for awhile and moving on to the next thing...until I fall back on my handful of favorites.

Having a bunch of utility primers with rivens rolled for ms/sc/fr/element/sd etc is also part of the fun of maining melee. I get locked into my primers though, I like having a baseline of knowing how my primer preforms so I can get semi consistent results when testing melee weapons. Once i do that I figure out how certain primers paired with different types of melee weapons preform as a good baseline to testing frames. Like I can test any new frame or helminth idea I have on an existing frame with epitaph and nami skyla and quickly get a sense of how that frames build preforms and adjust accordingly 

Edited April 3 by Berzerkules