overguard for warframes is killing the game

[BIGF0O7]

While it is nice to be functionally invincible, part of the fun of any game is challenge. Simultaneously, invincibility is most fun when its a temporary reward for accomplishing a certain task, or when its at random, offering a limited window either way of pure power. With Styanax, Dante, Frost and Kullervo running around, basically every pub game now is effectively a full map simulacrum, allowing the player to just spam weapons and abilities with no consequences.
 

While that may be appealing on paper, in practice it robs each frame of its identity and playstyle by no further virtue than eliminating half of their gameplay: survivability. Mesa’s peacemakers are only as fun as managing to stay alive as mesa with an eximus butcher running at you allows it to be. Ivara’s big pp damage from prowl bonus is only as fun as avoiding nullifiers and acolytes who can see you allows it to be. Nidus’ dance between tanking and pumping out huge damage from his abilities and weapons is only as fun as managing your stacks allows it to be. In a word: macro. Macro is what makes games fun and overguard kills macro. 

I dont know what the solution to this problem would be and indeed, i dont think sharing overguard should be removed outright, but power isnt really power if its basically free, and overguard makes that abundantly clear. 
 

 

[Operativ]

Personally, I'd like to see a general rebalance of Warframe to happen. I'm not the one to propose a form, as this requires a lot of planning and a proof of concept to implement, however I believe it would make Warframe a more enjoyable, challenging experience.

With warframes like Dante, Kullervo, Voruna, and some others the difficulty is at best artificial due to enemy level (eg. level 1000+ enemies) which comes with their armour, damage and so on. Sometimes we see a form of damage capping that is present on some murmur opponents in Sanctum Anatomica missions, like the rogue voidrigs. In my opinion, rather than buffing everything else up to the standards of stronger warframes, there should be a general overhaul to make everything viable again in its own niche, while not resorting to bandaid solutions of raising the difficulty by additional levels and more values.

Warframe is a good game, and I believe it would be even better with the power creep reeled back in, and things rebalanced to be challenging in a fun manner. I'm not sure if that mandates new version of the Damage model, but these are my two Entrati Obols on this matter.

[_Anise_]

overguard is not functionally invincibility and starts to fall of once you hit like level 300 enemies

[Raidoser]

Where do you think Overguard is OP ?

Most of the advantage of Overguard already existed before his introduction :

- Being immune to knockdown/slow/stagger ad vitam eternam is already possible with the Unairu trait "Poise" and numerous mods

- Being immune to status can be achieved with something as common as the carnis mod set.

Also Overguard has a major weakness no one seem to talk about : it doesn't take into account damage reduction and doesn't protect from vulnerability debuff (https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Overguard) which mean the moment you go into the top end content of the game overguard will get deleted in a few seconds (even more fast with void damage from the added factions...) like shield before they buffed it with some damage reduction and other goodies.

So being invincible with overguard is a pretty big assumption, except if you play low level mission.

[UpAndDownTheSquare]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb _Anise_:

overguard is not functionally invincibility and starts to fall of once you hit like level 300 enemies

If you have an Intrepid Stance Styanax or a Dante on your team, they will be regenerating your overguard constantly, because they have to do it for themselves as their main survival tool. They have no issues running The Circuit for an hour or so - and neither will you if you just tag along.

 

vor 8 Minuten schrieb Raidoser:

- Being immune to knockdown/slow/stagger ad vitam eternam is already possible with the Unairu trait "Poise" and numerous mods

- Being immune to status can be achieved with something as common as the carnis mod set.

"You can use mods for this". Yes, exactly. Without overguard you have to use mods for this. This is freaking huge.

[aivastus]

2 hours ago, UpAndDownTheSquare said:

If you have an Intrepid Stance Styanax or a Dante on your team, they will be regenerating your overguard constantly, because they have to do it for themselves as their main survival tool. They have no issues running The Circuit for an hour or so - and neither will you if you just tag along.

Yeah, but that requires effort, same as shield-gating non-stop. There are frames who do the same with lower effort. The only limiting factor in Circuit for many frames are the defense-rounds, which make it too big of a risk to attempt level cap.

It's just like @Raidoser said, yeah Overguard means you can't die, but only if u play in low levels - in which case investing in immortality instead of clear-speed is just a handicap.

Quote

"You can use mods for this". Yes, exactly. Without overguard you have to use mods for this. This is freaking huge.

One could ask "why it's huge"? Overguard is not the strongest option. It doesn't scale infinitely, unlike some other options that are available. Again, makes me wonder what content people are playing when they say overguard = immortality invincibility. I know OP said "pubs", but what level? SP or non-SP? At what level does immortality become relevant, in their opinion?

Edited April 4 by aivastus

[UpAndDownTheSquare]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb aivastus:

Yeah, but that requires effort, same as shield-gating non-stop.

What effort? Styanax is blasting his 4 non-stop (because that's the build), while Dante is giving you constant gate from the overguard regen on kill on his 4.

 

vor 25 Minuten schrieb aivastus:

One could ask "why it's huge"?

Because mods are the most important aspect of any build. It's where you get your power. If you don't have to use PSF or Rolliing Guard because you have overguard, you can slot something else. More strength for instance... for yet more overguard.

 

vor 28 Minuten schrieb aivastus:

I know OP said "pubs", but what level? SP or non-SP? At what level does immortality become relevant, in their opinion?

Does that matter? Overguard remains strong throughout, either because of the bulk of EHP it provides, or because of the status immunity and the additional shield gate + regen.

[aivastus]

3 hours ago, UpAndDownTheSquare said:

What effort? Styanax is blasting his 4 non-stop (because that's the build), while Dante is giving you constant gate from the overguard regen on kill on his 4.

The effort of casting said abilities. Yeah the bar is low in this game, but just for some comparisons, on Revenant you cast once every ~10-20 seconds. On invis frames, u cast once every 12-35 seconds roughly. On Zephyr, you cast every 20 seconds at base duration.

Yeah I agree mod slots are precious, but why single out overguard? I don't have PSF, so I specifically play builds that really don't need it in endurance runs. To me it seems like overguard is just one item in the toolkit, and the unfairness comes from the fact that some frames have none of these tools by default. No i-frames, no status immunity, no invis etc.

3 hours ago, UpAndDownTheSquare said:

Does that matter?

Well in my opinion it matters, as it would help us understand where they are coming from with this take.

I'm not questioning that overguard remains strong as a pocket status-immunity shield-gating tool, but I'm making a counterpoint that being unkillable shouldn't even be a factor in balancing unless we are talking about late Steel Path or higher.

Like idk, maybe I go check SP Cascade and be surprised with only Dante and Styanax everywhere now, but I doubt it. I believe it's still gonna be Revenants and stealth-frames, and everyone else extracts between 8-16 exolizers. If there's a frame with overguard, it will be Kullervo or Rhino, and they are the first one to start dying repeatedly, because their "invincibility" fails first. If there are any pure shield-gate + rolling guard frames doing a long run, they are always MR30 minimum, and better than me or anyone else in the lobby. This is just my personal experience, but maybe I just don't get the magic of overguard yet.

Edited April 5 by aivastus

[UpAndDownTheSquare]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb aivastus:

I'm not questioning that overguard remains strong as a pocket status-immunity shield-gating tool, but I'm making a counterpoint that being unkillable shouldn't even be a factor in balancing unless we are talking about late Steel Path or higher.

Oh it absolutely should be. The game should not be balanced around super late game 1hr+ runs when the vast majority of the game is happening on the non-SP starchart.

vor 9 Stunden schrieb aivastus:

Yeah I agree mod slots are precious, but why single out overguard?

Because it gives lots of HP, a second shield gate, and status immunity all in one. Skyanax and Dante can regenerate it so easily as part of their own routine for everyone in 50m range that it trivializes most of the game.

For comparison, Revenant will give you 5 stacks while he gets 20+ himself. Your stacks will have run out out long before he refreshes his. It's not nearly as reliable as overguard from Dante or Styanax.

Arguably, the main issue is how overguard is dispensed to the entire team. Kullervo and Rhino having overguard works just fine. Rhino's thing has always been "lmao huge health pool" and Kullervo needs that shield gate that he otherwise wouldn't have.

vor 9 Stunden schrieb aivastus:

If there are any pure shield-gate + rolling guard frames doing a long run, they are always MR30 minimum, and better than me or anyone else in the lobby. This is just my personal experience, but maybe I just don't get the magic of overguard yet.

Okay, let me put it this way: Dante and Styanax are giving you free rolling guard and are automating the shield gating for you.

Edited April 5 by UpAndDownTheSquare

[BIGF0O7]

Im not responding to these bad faith essays. Yall know exactly how overguard is functional invicibility. Stop. Warframe is already the easiest game on steam, overguard makes it so much even easier its becoming pointless to play

[xXADEKXx]

En 4/4/2024 a las 5:48, BIGF0O7 dijo:

Si bien es bueno ser funcionalmente invencible, parte de la diversión de cualquier juego es el desafío. Al mismo tiempo, la invencibilidad es más divertida cuando es una recompensa temporal por realizar una determinada tarea, o cuando es aleatoria, ofreciendo una ventana limitada de poder puro en cualquier sentido. Con Styanax, Dante, Frost y Kullervo corriendo, básicamente todos los juegos de pub ahora son efectivamente un simulacro de mapa completo, lo que permite al jugador simplemente enviar spam con armas y habilidades sin consecuencias.
 

Si bien esto puede resultar atractivo en el papel, en la práctica le roba a cada cuadro su identidad y estilo de juego sin más virtud que eliminar la mitad de su juego: la capacidad de supervivencia. Los pacificadores de Mesa son tan divertidos como lograr mantenerse con vida como lo permite Mesa con un carnicero eximus corriendo hacia ti. El gran daño de pp de Ivara debido al bono de acecho es tan divertido como lo permite evitar anuladores y acólitos que pueden verte. El baile de Nidus entre tanquear y causar un gran daño con sus habilidades y armas es tan divertido como lo permite administrar tus acumulaciones. En una palabra: macro. La macro es lo que hace que los juegos sean divertidos y la vigilancia excesiva mata a la macro. 

No sé cuál sería la solución a este problema y, de hecho, no creo que compartir la vigilancia deba eliminarse por completo, pero el poder no es realmente poder si es básicamente gratuito, y la vigilancia lo deja muy claro. 
 

 

Overguard está bien, no a todas las personas les gusta jugar comprobando sus habilidades todo el tiempo, estás pensando solo en ti. Este juego es una fantasía de poder, entonces tú eres el héroe. Los nuevos jugadores necesitan un warframe que les guste visualmente y jugar con él y dejar de ver habilidades y simplemente disparar y moler. Creo que es un buen amigo para los jugadores ocasionales, ya que mantienen el mercado activo. No tiene sentido de qué estamos hablando. No importa si tienes 1 millón de overguard o 10 000 en contenido de alto nivel, otra razón para dejar de decir que OG es malo and OP. I guess u are a new player wanting challenges in warframe and let me tell u that not exist at the begin of this game 

Edited April 6 by xXADEKXx

[Rovaeden]

On 2024-04-04 at 7:48 AM, BIGF0O7 said:

While it is nice to be functionally invincible, part of the fun of any game is challenge. Simultaneously, invincibility is most fun when its a temporary reward for accomplishing a certain task, or when its at random, offering a limited window either way of pure power. With Styanax, Dante, Frost and Kullervo running around, basically every pub game now is effectively a full map simulacrum, allowing the player to just spam weapons and abilities with no consequences.
 

While that may be appealing on paper, in practice it robs each frame of its identity and playstyle by no further virtue than eliminating half of their gameplay: survivability. Mesa’s peacemakers are only as fun as managing to stay alive as mesa with an eximus butcher running at you allows it to be. Ivara’s big pp damage from prowl bonus is only as fun as avoiding nullifiers and acolytes who can see you allows it to be. Nidus’ dance between tanking and pumping out huge damage from his abilities and weapons is only as fun as managing your stacks allows it to be. In a word: macro. Macro is what makes games fun and overguard kills macro. 

I dont know what the solution to this problem would be and indeed, i dont think sharing overguard should be removed outright, but power isnt really power if its basically free, and overguard makes that abundantly clear. 
 

 

I'm sorry but this line of reasoning is functionally absurd and I am tired of seeing it repeated.

Challenge as a concept is entirely subjective. What you define as challenging someone else might find to be trivial.

Secondly, you have complete agency to choose your own level of challenge in Warframe.
You get to choose to play solo or in a group, either public or private.
You get to choose which frame and which weapons you bring on a mission.
You get to choose what mods to put into your frame and weapons. If you think the game is too easy for you, you are free to choose to remove your best mods whenever you wish.

What you do not get to do is dictate how anyone else gets to enjoy the game.
To suggest otherwise simply paints you as childishly selfish.
I for one would love to delete from the game certain frames that annoy me, such as Saryn, Octavia, Limbo, and others, but I do not seriously seek or expect that outcome.
Instead, I utilize my own powers of agency and either play solo (which I do most of the time), or drop group if a frame that tends to annoy me is present, or I suck it up if for some reason I need to be in a public group.

 

[NeDesitVirtus]

22 minutes ago, Rovaeden said:

I'm sorry but this line of reasoning is functionally absurd and I am tired of seeing it repeated.

Challenge as a concept is entirely subjective. What you define as challenging someone else might find to be trivial.

Secondly, you have complete agency to choose your own level of challenge in Warframe.
You get to choose to play solo or in a group, either public or private.
You get to choose which frame and which weapons you bring on a mission.
You get to choose what mods to put into your frame and weapons. If you think the game is too easy for you, you are free to choose to remove your best mods whenever you wish.

What you do not get to do is dictate how anyone else gets to enjoy the game.
To suggest otherwise simply paints you as childishly selfish.
I for one would love to delete from the game certain frames that annoy me, such as Saryn, Octavia, Limbo, and others, but I do not seriously seek or expect that outcome.
Instead, I utilize my own powers of agency and either play solo (which I do most of the time), or drop group if a frame that tends to annoy me is present, or I suck it up if for some reason I need to be in a public group.

 

Among the most emotionally intelligent responses I've read in quite a while. Thank you.

At first when I read things like this I was baffled. Then I considered most of these types of tropes are likely but not definitively from lower level players who have not attempted content where overguard in excess of 20-50k is one shot leaving no more that a bit of breathing room to move. Basically a paper thin bit of shield gate. And it's hard to explain to people who are still killing level 80 regular path things as they've no point of reference. 

I think your reply ameliorates that with the simple yet pertinent discussion on agency, personal sovereignty, and choice theory. 

Sadly, among other things hyperbole and catastrophic thinking go hand in hand with demonizing the Developers and petulant demands such as what we have been seeing as of late. 

I appreciate your effort to encourage a more grounded restrained approach. 

Edited April 6 by NeDesitVirtus

[NeDesitVirtus]

On 2024-04-04 at 2:29 PM, UpAndDownTheSquare said:

If you have an Intrepid Stance Styanax or a Dante on your team, they will be regenerating your overguard constantly, because they have to do it for themselves as their main survival tool. They have no issues running The Circuit for an hour or so. 

They routinely get shredded at about level 1200. I see it all the time, I have to pick them up and often after a round of getting downed several times they leave. 

To be fair, I never depend on overguard and only routinely run those frames when doing infested arbitrations not so much for myself but to help newer players survive toxin procs. That in and of itself is the only niche I see for these types of frames. Otherwise overguard is just a thinner layer of shields and gives a slight advantage.

As a matter of fact 180 overguard via a single Duviri decree is as functionally helpful as 60k at level cap. And this isn't being acknowledged. 

[Shady_Tenno]

On 2024-04-04 at 2:48 PM, BIGF0O7 said:

While it is nice to be functionally invincible, part of the fun of any game is challenge. Simultaneously, invincibility is most fun when its a temporary reward for accomplishing a certain task, or when its at random, offering a limited window either way of pure power. With Styanax, Dante, Frost and Kullervo running around, basically every pub game now is effectively a full map simulacrum, allowing the player to just spam weapons and abilities with no consequences.
 

While that may be appealing on paper, in practice it robs each frame of its identity and playstyle by no further virtue than eliminating half of their gameplay: survivability. Mesa’s peacemakers are only as fun as managing to stay alive as mesa with an eximus butcher running at you allows it to be. Ivara’s big pp damage from prowl bonus is only as fun as avoiding nullifiers and acolytes who can see you allows it to be. Nidus’ dance between tanking and pumping out huge damage from his abilities and weapons is only as fun as managing your stacks allows it to be. In a word: macro. Macro is what makes games fun and overguard kills macro. 

I dont know what the solution to this problem would be and indeed, i dont think sharing overguard should be removed outright, but power isnt really power if its basically free, and overguard makes that abundantly clear. 
 

 

How is overguard any different than revenant with augment, or citrine giving everyone 90% damage reduction, or octavia and ash making everyone invisible, etc? Why people like to make a big deal out of nothing? I once joined an arbitration defence with a max range smoke shadow ash. Then someone started telling me to stop pressing 2 because it was making the mission too easy. That person was playing a high strength rhino with a kuva ogris btw 🤣🤣

[Rovaeden]

11 hours ago, Shady_Tenno said:

Then someone started telling me to stop pressing 2 because it was making the mission too easy.

LMAO! So true.
Translation: Stop being strong, I want to be the only one being strong! Mommy!! 😭

 

14 hours ago, BIGF0O7 said:

Im not responding to these bad faith essays. Yall know exactly how overguard is functional invicibility. Stop. Warframe is already the easiest game on steam, overguard makes it so much even easier its becoming pointless to play

LMAOOOOOOO! So perfect!
As I said just above ...

Translation: Stop being strong, I want to be the only one being strong! Mommy!! 😭😭😭

 

On 2024-04-05 at 9:13 AM, UpAndDownTheSquare said:

vast majority of the game

Actually, the "vast majority of the game" is 100% subjective.

For myself and many other high MR players, the entire game for the past few years has been on the Steel Path. I started playing Warframe in 2018 around the time Fortuna launched.
I cannot honestly say whether I have played more base Starchart or more Steel Path at this point. My intuition is that I have spent more time on Steel Path but the precise percentages (48% Starchart / 52% Steel Path) are impossible to quantify.
Regardless, 99% of my play time now is on Steel Path.

It sounds to me that you are a newer player and are still working your way up the power creep ladder.
Your personal perspective is valid, but incomplete. You seem unable to see that the Steel Path is the "endgame" and that the working your way up the "endgame" is the entirety of the game once starchart is complete.

[aivastus]

On 2024-04-06 at 3:56 AM, BIGF0O7 said:

Im not responding to these bad faith essays. Yall know exactly how overguard is functional invicibility. Stop. Warframe is already the easiest game on steam, overguard makes it so much even easier its becoming pointless to play

We do know how you see it. The main game is already boringly easy for many. You could make a case that overguard (especially shared overguard) makes the game boringly easy even faster, possibly too fast.

I'd seriously recommend getting Revenant if you haven't. You go into a mission and press 2. That is real functional invincibility. Add casting speed, ability efficiency and strength, and energy regen, and you can stand in the middle of level 9999 Grineer. For Infested missions, you pick Ivara or Octavia, and stay in stealth for the entire mission. For Corpus, you can use any method u want, just find a spot where you avoid nullifier bubbles.

Being virtually unkillable requires literally one finger. Any room for skill expression that exists in the game is already at doing stuff fast and efficiently, or using interesting builds to do it.

Edited April 7 by aivastus

[Rovaeden]

On 2024-04-04 at 7:48 AM, BIGF0O7 said:

overguard kills macro

I read your post a second time and I want to drill down deeper into this part specifically.
To use your own vernacular...

Overguard IS macro.

It's just that, it's not your macro so you don't like it.

Essentially what you are complaining about is that someone else's macro is interfering with your personal sense of satisfaction from pressing your own buttons, your macro, in a way that pleases you.

My Dude! That is online gaming with pub groups!
Period!
In every game!
I'm sorry, but get over it.

You have the choice to play pub groups knowing it is gonna suck more than it's gonna be great.
You have the choice to play solo.
You have the choice to form a group of friends who you gel with and only then can you get the perfection of gameplay you are essentially demanding DE spoon-feed you by calling other frames out for knocking over your sandcastle.

That's it. Those are your options. Pick one.

 

[UpAndDownTheSquare]

 

 

Am 6.4.2024 um 06:36 schrieb Rovaeden:

It sounds to me that you are a newer player and are still working your way up the power creep ladder.

I'm almost 1700 hours into the climb on that power creep ladder, and I can see that it doesn't lead to anywhere particular exciting. Hence me commenting on this topic, because team-wide overguard regen is just that: yet more power creep.

 

Am 6.4.2024 um 06:36 schrieb Rovaeden:

Actually, the "vast majority of the game" is 100% subjective.

No it's entirely objective: the vast majority of the game is where most players play. And most players don't play level 1000+. That's just how it is. Game shouldn't be balanced around the outliers of players.

[NeDesitVirtus]

12 minutes ago, UpAndDownTheSquare said:

 

 

I'm almost 1700 hours into the climb on that power creep ladder, and I can see that it doesn't lead to anywhere particularly exciting. Hence me commenting on this topic, because team-wide overguard regen is just that: yet more power creep.

 

No it's entirely objective: the vast majority of the game is where most players play. And most players don't play level 1000+. That's just how it is. Game shouldn't be balanced around the outliers of players.

Objectively overguard gets shredded even at level 300 steel path. If you do at least an Steel Path hour fissure survival, disruption, void cascade, conjunction survival or any type of endless mission it becomes apparent that overguard (because it doesn't benefit from damage attention) is more or less just a bit of extra shield-gate. 

It might not be exciting to you to gain scaling rewards of Steel Essence, Arcanes, Relics, and so forth but for those who enjoy the grind and challenge it is very much worth it. 

Sadly, most players don't stay far past 5-20 minutes in these missions apparently because of an fear of eximus (although other factors such as team synergy and real life things do come into play).

Those who aren't interested, knowledgeable, or otherwise inclined to stay routinely lose our on Rotation C rewards and make their farms objectively harder. 

Overguard gives a bit of breathing room against eximus which gives just a tad bit of survivability (how long will most Tenno last against a toxin proc with 135 armor and 300 health) . 

People go down all the time citing the above example even in low level content. 

Not dissimilar to Rolling Guard, Fast Deflection, and other type of shield gate/status cleanse mechanics aimed towards survivability when 300 shields and 800 health or 2000 armor and 2000 health will never be enough.

Indeed the game is focused around high level (endurance) survivability not base Starchart or even base Steel Path 5 minute runs. If it were not these mechanics and mods would not exist. 

And just because people don't know or don't care about the benefit of longer runs or harder content where these mechanics are relied upon to reap greater rewards doesn't mean they should be removed because someone doesn't want it for a level 80 regular path mission. 

As an aside would like an option within the settings menu to decline external  Warframe buffs, where I don't need or want a particular buff then it would not affect me. This is the most viable solution to the issue of "I don't want your buffs". 

[UpAndDownTheSquare]

The fact that 50k overguard "falls off" beyond level 1000+ - like most defenses - is not a compensation for the disruption that overguard causes in the entire rest of the game. So can we please stop bringing up its performance in endurance as an argument for why overguard for the whole squad isn't overpowered?

[Shady_Tenno]

1 hour ago, UpAndDownTheSquare said:

The fact that 50k overguard "falls off" beyond level 1000+ - like most defenses - is not a compensation for the disruption that overguard causes in the entire rest of the game. So can we please stop bringing up its performance in endurance as an argument for why overguard for the whole squad isn't overpowered?

Please go do a regular steal path mission with frost or styanax and tell me how strong overguard really is. SPOILER: It's not! Trying to hit enough enemies to maintain max overguard is a challenge, when you have 3 other murder machines running around, trying to compete with each other for who has the biggest pp. 

But none of that really matters, because the fact remains: Even at regular everyday steal path missions(yes, not just level 1000+), you'll get 1-shotted by a random enemy without some kind of damage reduction, invisibility or abusing shield gating. But no damage reduction, armor or shields apply to overguard, and that means that it's nowhere as strong as you think it is. You need A LOT of energy to maintain it for the whole squad, constantly having to cast your 4 the whole mission. Most of the time, people are running in different directions like monkeys, out of range, and they either get a small amount of overguard or nothing at all, so you have to spam the ability even more! Meanwhile, someone like citrine, or ash, can just press 1 button every 20-30 seconds that costs almost no energy. Why is that not an issue, but overguard is? And the fact that you are immune to status effects, is not different than having primed sure footed and rolling guard equipped or using the helminth. Do those make the game really easy? No, they simply make the game playable.

Overguard is very well balanced. At low levels, you don't have many enemies to hit in order to build enough overguard (not that it matters, since enemies don't hit hard enough to kill you anyway and they die fast), and at steel path missions enemies hit too hard, so you have to constantly spam it. If anything, Frost's overguard could use a buff right now.
 

[Rovaeden]

6 hours ago, UpAndDownTheSquare said:

And most players don't play level 1000+

You seem to be fixated on this 1000+ range. I'm not sure anybody is talking about that range aside from you.
The extreme endurance 1000+ levels are NOT the same as typical Steel Path levels of 100 - 300.
Perhaps you are just bad at math, so for your benefit I will simply tell you that 300 is not the same as 1000.
Being a cynic, I think you are conflating the two on purpose so you can avoid admitting that you are wrong.

 

Edited April 7 by Rovaeden

[Rovaeden]

4 hours ago, UpAndDownTheSquare said:

The fact that 50k overguard "falls off" beyond level 1000+

and again, you are being intellectually dishonest.

[Gaxxian]

This is the thread where people is asking for a big nerf to Revenant? Which has a cheap and spammable ability that can add the functional equivalent of infinite Overguard to all the team?