PC PC Dante Unbound: Deep Archimedea: Hotfix 35.5.3

[Numerounius]

Deep A, I'll keep my thoughts reserved until after I play it.

Dante Overguard nerf. Saw that coming a mile away. It was clearly designed for steel path content and beyond but it was clearly too much if little-Timmy could walk into Cetus with 20K Overguard. Sure Frost, Rhino and others can reach higher numbers but at least it based on the content. Dante was entirely based on abilities so a nerf to 8K is entirely reasonable.

Although with how the community is reacting to your call-out of "disruptive-ness" please also look at other elements such as Chroma Vex armor or Limbo's Rift.

DPS nerf on Dante, I was expecting something like some status cap limit or enemy limit like many other reasonable sane abilities. Not a full on LOS nerf, That is insane! So annoying that the fallback for a damage nerf is LOS for everything.

 

Divine Ret, come on DE, do we seriously have to do hard range caps on everything??? You put a hard cap on Nyx and Mag of all frames that saw very little usage. You couldn't at least wait til the dust settled to see things pan out??? This isn't a repeat of Null Star, this is a repeat of Marked for Death where just because it is shown off to be extremely powerful that isn't representative of how it'll pan out if left alone. If there was a change here I would've liked an enemy cap or status cap limit not another thing showcasing why you refuse to give us more range.

[Crusher4881]

Tragedy doesn't need a line of sight check because it's a combo finisher ability, and the combo setup does require line of sight. The only potential concern is its ability to nuke low-level enemies (it does have exceptional range for a radial damaging ability), so maybe make it so that LOS checks aren't needed if the target has Slash status effects on them?

[Gaxxian]

Add a second line into the mod description for Rage & Hunter Adrenaline: "Disables Overguard"

Then you can un-nerf Dante and we will all pretend that this never happened.

 

Ah, and btw, my 2 Melee Arcane Adapters from the Deep Archmedian were very appreciated. Ty for adding such good rewards there. /s

[Pure7865]

Just to add to the other comments, Dante feels awful to play now and Nezha is the same. 

And Dante felt SO good initially, you could just nerf his overguard but let him keep his nuke potential, don't destroy both.....

[Zoomzz]

I will say that the S#&$ hit the fan. the nerf to dante I can't understand at all but okay you chose a good day to overshadow your new gamemode with such useless nerf! (the gamemode is great but it's easy to overlook with all the other crap now)

 

[--UMBRA--Omega]

Deep Archimedea is bugged. I finished it with all the modifiers and only got three rewards (four, if you include the longhorns).

[TennoPain]

Played Elite Archimedea last mission everybody were on extraction in a same sec. And than everything was lost and reseted well there goes my time and nerves so sad.

[Caidezes]

Dante feels terrible now. Tragedy can't hit anything if there's a tiny box in the way. All you had to do was allow overguard to work with damage-reliant abilities/mods.

Nezha's augment range being gutted to 50% was way too extreme, too.

[Ara_The_Vixen_Tenno]

LOS on Tragedy is 1) Broken, it sometimes doesn't affect enemies clearly in LOS and 2) a ridiculous restriction on a good nuker on a male frame. The severe drop on Overguard is a hell of a nerf given that is the central survivability tactic of the frame, both for Triumph and for Light Verse. The nerf on Archon Intensify is ridiculous - most of the Archon mods are generally useless, we finally have a reason to use one in more than a single niche application and you kill it before it's even started.

Dante didn't feel OP on SP before the nerfs you just implemented and now it'll be relegated to Mastery Fodder along with Onos. Very myopic nerfing, DE. Very unappreciated. Same goes with Nezha. And increasing the levels of Eximus all across the board (as well as additional modifiers for Archimedean) is going to absolutely ensure that some frames (like Rhino) will never be played even if you put them into the forced rotations. You spend a cubic crapload of your energy to get off Stomp and it effects next to no targets?

Your range caps on Abilities are aggravating. Capping Nyx and Mag ensured that I would never play them except for a round or two of Duviri Circuit. Now you are doing the same to more and more Abilities. Stop that.

"That's not working the way we intended" has been a convenient excuse to destroy playability in this game for 11 years. So some clever folks find ways to take advantage of the things you created. All of the endgamers will do that with every single thing you release because that's what we have time on our hands to do. Dante was meant to be an endgame frame. If you don't want a first-year ML 10ish player doing an AFK 2 hour SP survival, find a different way to implement for lower levels or scale properly or increase the ML reqs for the frame. Don't punish everyone.

Edited April 4 by Ara_The_Vixen_Tenno

[zork9900]

3 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Missed Notes from Update 35.5.0:
Observant Tenno may have noticed some Abilities are no longer interacting with Crowd Control immune foes the same way. This is due to a change that went out with Dante Unbound, but was unfortunately missed in Patch Notes. These particular interactions fell outside of the intended design of CC immunity, so we have removed these outliers to restore expected behaviors. 

Enemies with Crowd Control immunity (ex: Overguard) have had the following interactions removed: 

• Frost's Ice Wave Impedance Augment (specifically the frozen trail that slows them)
• Rhino’s Stomp (slow effect)
• Primary Obstruct (weapon jamming)
• Exodia Epidemic (enemy suspension)
• Zenurik Temporal Drag (slow effect)
• Wisp’s Breach Surge (blind)
• Halikar (disarm)
• Mesa’s Muzzle Flash (blind)
• Proboscis Cernos (stun and pull)
• Mag’s Counter Pulse Augment (robotics disabling and disarm)
• Mag’s Fracturing Crush Augment (immobilization) 
• Malicious Code (immobilization) 

You missed some cc abilities. Octavia, for example, can still taunt enemies with overguard into damaging themselves, which is even more op, cause they are not only cced, they also deal damage to themseleves without octavia doing anything. If your goal is to make cc abilities consistent, please make ALL cc abilities consistent, although tbh cc needs buffs, not nerfs, imo I htink overguard should greatly shorten cc, not completely remove it, maybe make them take like only 10% of the abilities cc duration or something like that, so they can sitll be cced to get out of trouble for cc frames, or soemthing similar depending on the specific type of cc.

Edited April 4 by zork9900

[Cryogenic_Leakage]

First week of Elite Deep Archimedea was fun! Had to change the builds for weapons and think about how to play around the -energy debuff (energy pizzas cooldown is fair enough, not too long/not to short). Blocking operator made things more interesting without infinite revives. I agree with earlier sentiment that you can't really help the team with bad weapon rolls, especially with disruption targets. We had a Xaku/Gyre combo as dps and that was good enough but without either one we couldn't have killed the targets and would've been stuck at the disruption stage.

Very thankful for the Dante Overguard nerf, his infinite fountain felt like perma ironskin for everyone.

I agree in spirit to nerfing cc interactions with eximus but at this point why equip icy avalanche at all or use rhinos stomp when said abilities cost minimum 1/3 of your energy or more and dont work on atleast half the enemies you're facing in a room? (high level content of course).

Edited April 4 by Cryogenic_Leakage

[--UMBRA--Omega]

10 hours ago, --UMBRA--Omega said:

Deep Archimedea is bugged. I finished it with all the modifiers and only got three rewards (four, if you include the longhorns).

Nevermind, I didn't check the Elite button lol.

[CelticShaman]

I think I may have visited the forums once before to vote on varuna's name but after seeing the Dante nerfs I wanted to come and express my displeasure along with everyone else. I hadn't played Warframe in years but the cross save update got my attention on Warframe once again and then seeing Dante finally got me to go ahead and start playing again. I really enjoyed Dante and would appreciate it if you would take alook at him again. I didn't think he needed to be nerfed personally and if he really fell under the 'dominant' portion of your balance philosophy could you have not waited until the shininess wore off?

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

Game still too easy but I like the direction we’re going with nerfs. Hopefully we get a Saryn, Mesa, Octavia, and Kullervo nerf soon.

[DarthVZ]

DE, you had a massive W with this update for a fist time in years. Why do you have a pathalogical need to ruin it?  

[Marissaurus-rex]

Bro, you don't even know what are you talking about. Isn't fair for those players who paid for the warframe set, the augments and everything, And now these players think it was a waste of money.
It's not fair that because you as developers don't know where to test effectively, you release something that experienced players like and then take it away from them overnight. Do you want a solution? Learn to test before it is playable, be serious with your work.

Edited April 4 by Marissaurus-rex

[TheTundraTerror]

Just got done Deep Dive (I'm calling them that because it's easier) and just spent 15 minutes in Stage 2 because one person decided to run off and start Voca hunting which spread out the spawns and massively slowed down the Ampule drops. Again, because one person decided to put himself over the group, the three people that actually focused on the mission were punished. Please, just disable Voca spawns from Netracells and Deep Dive.

[Kavarosh]

5 minutes ago, Marissaurus-rex said:

Bro, you don't even know what are you talking about. Isn't fair for those players who paid for the warframe set, the augments and everything, And now these players think it was a waste of money.
It's not fair that because you as developers don't know where to test effectively, you release something that experienced players like and then take it away from them overnight. Do you want a solution? Learn to test before it is playable, be serious with your work.

That is the feeling. I will never buy another Warframe set

[Waeleto]

All these nerfs must be reverted, the overguard, the los and ALL of it, you had NO data to nerf him, he was out for 5 days before you decided to nerf him\

The only data is a couple of whiny people crying on the forums

[KazeParadox]

I want my platinum back! What a waste of time and resources Dante was.  I should have known better. I knew I was enjoying this update a bit too much 

Edited April 4 by KazeParadox
Spelling + the text got duplicated

[Fuffles_]

- NeZha Augment
Why are you nerfing it? NeZha could have used some spotlight. I feel like overguard already is the nerf to this augment since correct me if I'm wrong, but overguarded enemies can not be speared. And then again, to make his ult actually partially nuke rooms you had to do a relatively specific setup for it to work. Although, I'm kinda not surprised given how much CC frames got shafted with the introduction of overguard.

- Further Overguard buffs
Further Fs for CC frames. I just dread the day it starts making enemies ignore the last few remaining working "CCs". (Don't want to give any ideas as to what those are :P)

- Dante nerfs
Honestly; I expected the worst, that being Ember's World of Fire/Valkyr's Hysteria kind of nerf. Happy it didn't go that far, but that still doesn't mean the nerfs are just.
I appreciate the summoned book getting a bit more damage, but adding possibly the poorest implementation of LoS to Tragedy just kinda makes it useless.
It's not like Tragedy really does nuke on its own unless you are on low levels (so basically its the more expensive version of old World on Fire at 100 energy per cast).
If you really had to nerf this, why not reduce its range instead like a lot of people already pointed out? Unsure if its gonna be worth to cast it anymore.
I honestly didn't expect his Light Verse/Triumph to be touched with Styanax's ult existing, but okay? I feel like reducing it this hard is a bit too far, since keep in mind 100 energy cost per Triumph. If I had to change it, it would either be making it not a team wide buff or instead of giving instant overguard, have it basically generate that amount over a certain period of time.
And even then, please remember that Dante is a frame you drop in the current end-game of Warframe. I don't know why all late-game warframes have to basically be on par with baby's first frames if not worse.
I doubt that most if any of the nerfs will be reverted at this point if I'm being honest and I kinda regret spending plat on getting Dante, I'm just gonna hope this wont repeat with Jade nor that she will release like most of the forgotten frames, like that already forgotten concrete frame.

Overall I feel like these nerfs came way too fast given they all of this had been out for like what, a week? Give things some time to actually take their place in the meta.

- Deep Archimedea release
Maybe it's because I managed to get Baruuk, but it honestly sounded so much worse on paper, I'm so glad it isn't. It's really an unique take on a sortie-like and I appreciate impairing yourself for greater rewards. Unsure if I'm happy with some of the Elite rewards, but I feel like that stuff will probably change in some future.

Edited April 4 by Fuffles_

[NameLessFreak]

15 minutes ago, Ghastly-Ghoul said:

Game still too easy but I like the direction we’re going with nerfs. Hopefully we get a Saryn, Mesa, Octavia, and Kullervo nerf soon.

Someone perma ban this man please. 

[MutoManiac]

Deep Archimeda is a hella fun even with a crappy loadout. Good job. I unlocked the elite version and that's going to be glorious chaos so I can't wait until one of my frames shows up. Not stupid enough to go into that with something I don't know how to play.

[golfdinger]

I was excited to play more Nezha since he's always been much worse than other options for the roles he can fill. I had just started building Nezha Prime despite frequently using the base version since release, but with such a drastic and unnecessary nerf it's such a hugh letdown that I don't even want to play anymore.

[Little1Chicken]

5 минут назад, Fuffles_ сказал:

- NeZha Augment
Why are you nerfing it? NeZha could have used some spotlight. I feel like overguard already is the nerf to this augment since correct me if I'm wrong, but overguarded enemies can not be speared. And then again, to make his ult actually partially nuke rooms you had to do a relatively specific setup for it to work. Although, I'm kinda not surprised given how much CC frames got shafted with the introduction of overguard.

- Further Overguard buffs
Further Fs for CC frames. I just dread the day it starts making enemies ignore the last few remaining working "CCs". (Don't want to give any ideas as to what those are :P)

- Dante nerfs
Honestly; I expected the worst, that being Ember's World of Fire/Valkyr's Hysteria kind of nerf. Happy it didn't go that far, but that still doesn't mean the nerfs are just.
I appreciate the summoned book getting a bit more damage, but adding possibly the poorest implementation of LoS to Tragedy just kinda makes it useless.
It's not like Tragedy really does nuke on its own unless you are on low levels (so basically its the more expensive version of old World on Fire at 100 energy per cast).
If you really had to nerf this, why not reduce its range instead like a lot of people already pointed out? Unsure if its gonna be worth to cast it anymore.
I honestly didn't expect his Light Verse/Triumph to be touched with Styanax's ult existing, but okay? I feel like reducing it this hard is a bit too far, since keep in mind 100 energy cost per Triumph. If I had to change it, it would either be making it not a team wide buff or instead of giving instant overguard, have it basically generate that amount over a certain period of time.
And even then, please remember that Dante is a frame of the current end-game of Warframe. I don't know why all late-game warframes have to basically be on par with baby's first frames if not worse. I doubt that most if any of the nerfs will be reverted at this point if I'm being honest and I kinda regret spending plat on getting Dante, I'm just gonna hope this wont repeat with Jade nor that she will release like most of the forgotten frames, like that already forgotten concrete frame.

Overall I feel like these nerfs came way too fast given they had been out for like what, a week? Give things some time to actually enter the meta.

- Deep Archimedea release
Maybe it's because I managed to get Baruuk, but it honestly sounded so much worse on paper, I'm so glad it isn't. It's really an unique take on a sortie-like and I appreciate impairing yourself for greater rewards. Unsure if I'm happy with some of the Elite rewards, but I feel like that stuff will probably change in some future.

actually eximus unit are attached to the spears for about a half of second so there is opportunity to affect them

Edited April 4 by Little1Chicken