Maybe Warframe just not cool anymore

[WildstarsCCB]

Before I start,  here are two stories I wanna share.

First one happened before I played warframe. I saw a video called which basically just showed how GAUSS running in the ground with some excited electric music. Honestly, I stunned: damn it is so freaking cool. If I have the chance to take a try for this game I will definitely take this "Flash guy".

The second story happened when I started my journey in warframe for about 4hrs, one of my friends helped me with some map hard for rookie. In a Defense mission, he took his Saryn out and——you know what happened next.

"Are you cheat? " I said, and he laughed.

It was another big shock for a freshman who using Excalibur and MK1 weapon. At that point, I lacked for energy to use powers, lacked for credits and mods, lacked for knowleged. I lacked for mostly everything ,except curiosity and expectation for content waiting in next MR——when I was trying to shoot all these enemys' head ,there must be some powers or weapons much stronger somewhere for me to explore.

And my imagination came true. I can burn the hall down, can fly like a jet, can stop the time of enemy like "THE WORLD".  All of these these super powers that seem like cheating in other games are within reach in Warframe. As for me, these experiences are the truly cool things of this game.

So here i gonna ask, where are these "cool things" gone?  Are they disappearing or I just getting tired? 

The answer is simple, it was ruined.

First step, the steel path ruined most of old frames' dreaming of using power damage to complete missions.  As we all know, before their energy go empty, most of frames are not lucky enough to solely do that.

Second step, the Eximus with overgaurd ruined mostly frames known for their control power, limbo, nyx, equinox, forst, and this list is still growing ,you know. Of course DE remember to bring some frames ability to build overguard too. HOWEVER, everybody know when the lv of enemies up to a line, shield or overguard or armor or HP can be meanless to your survive. This was never a fair matchup. 

The third step, and the most frustrating step, is that essentially, we have not seen a truly new gameplay (Void Flood may be one)  or new BOSS like Eidolon Teralyst in so many years. In most of missions, like Exterminate，Survival，Defense, Disruptio or their combination ，players must consider did they really have abilities to deal with some many high lv enemy ,most of them dont even take any kind of Proc. This directly ruined our choice of frames and weapons, if we still want to get most of the rewards of gameplay.

I don't want to show off, but I - and many of my friends, including certainly many on the forums - could have easily anticipated Dante's nerf. To be precise, the nerf for the Dark Verse. For a long time, the upper-level design of this game has been full of morbid fear of AOE or say nuking. 

They gave many high-sounding reasons, such as preventing players from hanging up, preventing only a few weapons/powers from being favored, and ensuring the gaming experience for most people. But trust me, most of time, they just couldnt bear any high damage and usable AOE itself . BECAUSE this will make players realize more quickly that what designers have done over the years is, without exception, using gameplay to force most people to pursue extreme high-range damage.  At the same time, they use another mask yelling :"PLS SHOOT ENEMY'S HEAD , PLS USE MORE YOUR TRAINED SKILL AND MARKSMANSHIP INSTEAD OF EXPECTING AOE TO SAVE YOUR TIME" .

People looking for AOE - Nerf - People looking for other AOE. This is a deadly cycle and I cant see any chance it could be break.

But when I used GAUSS running over Orb Vallis for the first time, I didnt expect this dame cycle happen. I love this feeling of running like a flash. It just like "cheating", but it is really COOL, and this is what truly separates Warframe from other games,  as far as I concern. In my imagination, there must be some"Orb Vallis" for some “GAUSS” to show their COOL THINGS. 

But most of frames and weapons just not lucky enough to do that. Thats why this game seems not that cool any more.

Honestly, I feel sad about it.

 

[SDGDen]

the problem is that the game hasn't had the balancing effort it really needs for a really long time, in large part because this community LOVES to backseat dev without knowing how game design or game balance actually works.

 

the devs keep trying their best to find ways to make the game more challenging without stepping on the toes of the community, the same community who will literally yell like DE personally shot their puppy whenever the word "nerf" gets uttered. 

so instead of proper, game-wide balance, we get uh... *this*. 

whatever *this* is.

and the worst part? we asked for it.  we pushed for this direction. DE didn't ruin warframe, the players did.

 

[Mazifet]

2 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

the problem is that the game hasn't had the balancing effort it really needs for a really long time, in large part because this community LOVES to backseat dev without knowing how game design or game balance actually works.

 

the devs keep trying their best to find ways to make the game more challenging without stepping on the toes of the community, the same community who will literally yell like DE personally shot their puppy whenever the word "nerf" gets uttered. 

so instead of proper, game-wide balance, we get uh... *this*. 

whatever *this* is.

and the worst part? we asked for it.  we pushed for this direction. DE didn't ruin warframe, the players did.

 

I would personally love if DE was less scared of the community, and acted with a little more force. Changes to several Warframes and metas that have been dominant for too long would be amazing to freshen things up. I'm sure that the game would get review bombed like it did back during the veilbreaker nerfs, but overall it's a good thing to have a constantly changing meta for players to stay engaged. I believe doing this, while buffing other equipment, will help improve the games longevity, as a stagnant meta in a live service game is never a good thing.

[Genitive]

It's always amusing to watch all the temper tantrums when the devs make a mistake.

 

8 minutes ago, SDGDen said:

the problem is that the game hasn't had the balancing effort it really needs for a really long time, in large part because this community LOVES to backseat dev without knowing how game design or game balance actually works.

I couldn't agree more.

[Cram_Duahcim]

[PsiWarp]

Kneejerk reactions all around from both sides, gonna wait 'til the dust settles.

[Agall]

1 hour ago, WildstarsCCB said:

he took his Saryn out

Not the way

1 hour ago, WildstarsCCB said:

Excalibur and MK1 weapon

The way.

 

Min-max meta slaves will burn themselves out in this game. The game is primarily geared towards creatives, whether that's with builds or cosmetics.

[WildstarsCCB]

32分钟前 , SDGDen 说:

the problem is that the game hasn't had the balancing effort it really needs for a really long time, in large part because this community LOVES to backseat dev without knowing how game design or game balance actually works.

 

the devs keep trying their best to find ways to make the game more challenging without stepping on the toes of the community, the same community who will literally yell like DE personally shot their puppy whenever the word "nerf" gets uttered. 

so instead of proper, game-wide balance, we get uh... *this*. 

whatever *this* is.

and the worst part? we asked for it.  we pushed for this direction. DE didn't ruin warframe, the players did.

 

The worst part is, you and the people you spum could not reallize what is "good" gameplay and really believe these, to a certain extent, we call them "designer" can truly reallize what they had done and what they should do all the time.  Or you make yourself believe that, whatever.

Game Industry is very complex and highly organized. From EA to FS, from Nintendo to Sony, they may make history , they may fk up. DE is far from the best but still better than the worst. 

One thing in common is that, just like making a movie, it is difficult for leaders to notice what they have done wrong and what they have done right in such a complex collective creative process, so does the masters. It is true that there is a large amount of ready-made theoretical knowledge and cases in the world for them to refer to, but in fact the production and operation of the game are not entirely led by their will to make it better or worse. Sometimes you even realize that there is a better way, but the practical conditions do not allow you to bend down and do it.

A very simple example is this new gameplay. THEY tend to focus too much on putting pressure on the player, especially by piling the difficulty of the gameplay into a situation where the player may have to use a very poor build to complete the mission if they are very unlucky. But is this bad design? For players, maybe. But for designers, this saves them a lot of time to design new enemies and gameplay flows that actually make sense - or go to parties. 

So yeah, they didn't ruin anything, they just make my imagination stronger: I was always wondering if they didn't get much time to build new boss, new gameplay, and balance the out-dated frames——what are they really working for everyday? where are their time gone?

 

[WildstarsCCB]

2分钟前 , Agall 说:

Not the way

The way.

 

Min-max meta slaves will burn themselves out in this game. The game is primarily geared towards creatives, whether that's with builds or cosmetics.

SO，

 

Mach Rush

Not the way.

Run step by step and stop press ctrl and space.

The way

 

Thank you. Creative suggestions.

[Aruquae]

9 minutes ago, WildstarsCCB said:

Run step by step and stop press ctrl and space.

Nah, that’s also not the way

The true way is just power walking as Atlas as your enemies die from your beautiful gigachin 

[Agall]

20 minutes ago, WildstarsCCB said:

SO，

 

Mach Rush

Not the way.

Run step by step and stop press ctrl and space.

The way

 

Thank you. Creative suggestions.

The way is using max range Slash Dash and unbinding W.

[quxier]

1 hour ago, WildstarsCCB said:

new BOSS like Eidolon Teralyst i

Earth Void Angel, Void Angel. will you be mine?

1 hour ago, SDGDen said:

the problem is that the game hasn't had the balancing effort it really needs for a really long time, in large part because this community LOVES to backseat dev without knowing how game design or game balance actually works.

 

the devs keep trying their best to find ways to make the game more challenging without stepping on the toes of the community, the same community who will literally yell like DE personally shot their puppy whenever the word "nerf" gets uttered. 

so instead of proper, game-wide balance, we get uh... *this*. 

whatever *this* is.

and the worst part? we asked for it.  we pushed for this direction. DE didn't ruin warframe, the players did.

The problem with "challenge" is that it's mostly numerical challenge, bot from enemy/enviroment and gear point of view.

What are archons? Bullet sponges. Netracells? Same. Archimedea have probalbly have some perks but it's still... bullet sponges.

And what we get from gear pov? Styanax cannot do anything during 4th so you slap X, Y, Z and just do 1,2,4. Dagath? Similar. Sevagoth? Before augment you "could" group enemies to do a lot of damage with 1+2 but that would require other grouping source. Otherwise you just, again, slap how much enemies you can to change into Shadow. Amps arcanes? +crit/damag/estatus... Incarnon weapons? Some are just weak-to-strong weapons types (e.g. slow fire rate changes into fast fire rate). Arcane that give you 75% damage evasion (or reduction)? Well slap your afk style frame and just roll, jump and bullet jump.

 

Look at Dante and its changes. They haven't introduced any synergies just reduced numbers or banned some interaction (LoS of 4th). What they do with Xaku (except some nice changes)? They banned recasting of 2nd (disarming enemies). So what you do? Of course, more.

 

Yeah, we have some fault here but I'm tired of hearing that's mostly our fault.

 

ps. above text may seems to negative. I'm not saying everything they do is bad. They have done some very nice stuff I've enjoyed.

4 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

14 minutes ago, WildstarsCCB said:

Run step by step and stop press ctrl and space.

Nah, that’s also not the way

The true way is just power walking as Atlas as your enemies die from your beautiful gigachin 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1H0vzDgQsc

 

[MetalMechabolic]

59 minutes ago, Agall said:

Not the way

The way.

 

Min-max meta slaves will burn themselves out in this game. The game is primarily geared towards creatives, whether that's with builds or cosmetics.

Minmaxxing is the new way to game now a days.  Personally, I hate this mindset because it always brings the "Why is X weaker to Y when Z setup?!" crowd.  It always turns out bad for the game in question but at that point its a bigger issue than DE can tackle.  Personally, I wished they played their own games for fun, realize what they like and don't like about it, and go from there.  If you try to please everyone, you please no one.  Then again, loling at balance in a game you can treat it like a single player game you want.

[UnstarPrime]

Everyone has subjective tastes and perspectives, so if you think Warframe isn't fun or cool, that's valid. 

Personally, I'm not in that boat.  I think Warframe is a ton of fun, and I really appreciate the effort DE puts in to keep trying to balance and improve the experience.  Warframe isn't a perfect game, and the devs periodically make mistakes.  But with that acknowledged, I genuinely think that throughout all of the ups and downs, the overall Warframe experience just keeps getting better and better.  Warframes have never stopped being stupidly powerful and being able to do amazing things, and just about every update increases the tools and options I have at my disposal without (in my subjective experience) making enemies such pushovers that I feel like there's no resistance.

If you've got ways you think the game could be improved, I recommend posting in appropriate Feedback section on the forums; this is because they generally read the other sections like General Discussion.  Posting in the Feedback section is no guarantee that the devs will do what you want, but the more people who share a perspective with the devs, the more likely it is that a change will be made.  DE has a vested interest in the game and thus a vested interest in the happiness of the players who support it.  So make your voice heard with clear and polite feedback so that they can truly understand which tangible parts of the game that you're feeling frustrated by.

[WildstarsCCB]

1小时前 , Aruquae 说:

Nah, that’s also not the way

The true way is just power walking as Atlas as your enemies die from your beautiful gigachin 

I will suggest you turn your grendel red.

Press 2 and you will know de way.

[Aruquae]

6 minutes ago, WildstarsCCB said:

I will suggest you turn your grendel red.

Press 2 and you will know de way.

I've never truly experienced the way until now
Thank you for teaching me da way

[_Eclips3_]

On 2024-04-05 at 5:31 PM, SDGDen said:

the problem is that the game hasn't had the balancing effort it really needs for a really long time, in large part because this community LOVES to backseat dev without knowing how game design or game balance actually works.

 

the devs keep trying their best to find ways to make the game more challenging without stepping on the toes of the community, the same community who will literally yell like DE personally shot their puppy whenever the word "nerf" gets uttered. 

so instead of proper, game-wide balance, we get uh... *this*. 

whatever *this* is.

and the worst part? we asked for it.  we pushed for this direction. DE didn't ruin warframe, the players did.

 

I know you're talking about the Dante nerf. The reason people are upset is because he was fine just the way he was, he wasn't even in the top 5 warframes in terms of power and hax. The nerf was a knee jerk reaction which is why people are upset. Players invested hours and resources adding forma and modding him just to get him significantly weakened and his abilities made annoying to use (LoS).

[(PSN)robotwars7]

11 minutes ago, _Eclips3_ said:

Players invested hours and resources adding forma and modding him just to get him significantly weakened and his abilities made annoying to use (LoS).

yeah, because that's never happened before... except for all the times it has... which is a lot. why do you think they started giving people formas after every rebalance? they know people invest formas into their frames, but at the end of the day, who is in control of this game's direction? who gets to decide how well each frame should function? not us.

do they have the right to be angry? sure. and if it's your first time seeing a frame nerfed, then I can understand how it stings. once you've been around a while though, and actually seen how these types of games are balanced, you realise the truth, which is that change is the only constant, and thigns are always going to get buffed/nerfed as their creator sees fit, regardless of how we as players feel. I've seen plenty of nerfs happen, and I don't agree with all of them. some of them also happened on frames I invested in.

Ember was a good example for me: her first rework was utter garbage... then they tweaked her again, and since then she's been mostly the same. she's not like she was before, and maybe I liked the old World on Fire, but no amount of devbashing or screeching by me on here would've made DE undo those changes, because it didn't fit with their vision of how Ember should be.

nowadays I'd say the smart play is to only Forma the Prime frames, because 9 times out of 10, frames will get a rework before their prime, and the 1 out of 10 times, like with Hydroid, it's because that frame is underperforming, so the changes should amount to a buff.

 

 

[_Eclips3_]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

yeah, because that's never happened before... except for all the times it has... which is a lot. why do you think they started giving people formas after every rebalance? they know people invest formas into their frames, but at the end of the day, who is in control of this game's direction? who gets to decide how well each frame should function? not us.

do they have the right to be angry? sure. and if it's your first time seeing a frame nerfed, then I can understand how it stings. once you've been around a while though, and actually seen how these types of games are balanced, you realise the truth, which is that change is the only constant, and thigns are always going to get buffed/nerfed as their creator sees fit, regardless of how we as players feel. I've seen plenty of nerfs happen, and I don't agree with all of them. some of them also happened on frames I invested in.

Ember was a good example for me: her first rework was utter garbage... then they tweaked her again, and since then she's been mostly the same. she's not like she was before, and maybe I liked the old World on Fire, but no amount of devbashing or screeching by me on here would've made DE undo those changes, because it didn't fit with their vision of how Ember should be.

nowadays I'd say the smart play is to only Forma the Prime frames, because 9 times out of 10, frames will get a rework before their prime, and the 1 out of 10 times, like with Hydroid, it's because that frame is underperforming, so the changes should amount to a buff.

 

 

It's not about expecting to control the game's direction but rather about feeling respected as participants in the community. Offering formas after rebalances is a gesture of acknowledgment, but it doesn't erase the frustration of having a frame significantly altered. As for only Forma-ing Prime frames, it shouldn't have to be the norm. Players should feel confident in investing in any frame they enjoy without fear of drastic changes diminishing their experiences. 

[Venus-Venera]

vor 31 Minuten schrieb _Eclips3_:

I know you're talking about the Dante nerf. The reason people are upset is because he was fine just the way he was, he wasn't even in the top 5 warframes in terms of power and hax. The nerf was a knee jerk reaction which is why people are upset. Players invested hours and resources adding forma and modding him just to get him significantly weakened and his abilities made annoying to use (LoS).

This is probably mostly about new players who bought Dante Pack with reallife cash. So they HAD a functioning warframe that doesn't depend on common weapons. and he was actually able to play almost all of the content very relaxed.

This brazen ruin stuff didn't bother me at all. I have many warframes that are much better. and I farmed all the blueprints including weapons within a few hours.

and I can understand the others very well. In good gaming, rip-offs like this don't happen! and what kind of embarrassing explanation are they trying to sell us? that they couldn't even test high-end content for 1 hour with Dante on the team? REALLY NOW?....
If I had bought it with a credit card, I would immediately refund the amount and uninstall everything. otherwise I would have filled myself absolutely like a fool!

[_Eclips3_]

25 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

This is probably mostly about new players who bought Dante Pack with reallife cash. So they HAD a functioning warframe that doesn't depend on common weapons. and he was actually able to play almost all of the content very relaxed.

This brazen ruin stuff didn't bother me at all. I have many warframes that are much better. and I farmed all the blueprints including weapons within a few hours.

and I can understand the others very well. In good gaming, rip-offs like this don't happen! and what kind of embarrassing explanation are they trying to sell us? that they couldn't even test high-end content for 1 hour with Dante on the team? REALLY NOW?....
If I had bought it with a credit card, I would immediately refund the amount and uninstall everything. otherwise I would have filled myself absolutely like a fool!

Yep, I'm just disappointed rather than annoyed because I didn't spent money on the Dante pack. Very glad I didn't. I've uninstalled because Dante was the only thing keeping e interested in this game. Gonna have to wait for the stalker update coming soon.

Edited April 7 by _Eclips3_

[MetalMechabolic]

On 2024-04-05 at 11:31 AM, SDGDen said:

and the worst part? we asked for it.  we pushed for this direction. DE didn't ruin warframe, the players did.

 

Oh boy, another "it's the player's fault" post.  Okay, which one of you jokers broke into DE's offices and pushed out a broken patch?!