PC PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.6

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

55 minutes ago, Gandalf_White said:

This gets even more hilarious when you know that Mesa's LoS is so much more lenient than Dante's. Enemies you have seen will still remain in your "LoS" for a few seconds even if they are behind a wall, meaning your Mesa will still hit them behind any walls, obstacles, column or any other crap that you see on a tight, cluttered map.

 

But hey, Mr. KnowItAll here says Mesa can't hit through walls.

Really showcases his lack of knowledge tbh...

Mesa can shoot through walls? Really? Go sit in the front room of the Sanctum Simulacrum room and try shooting the enemies through the wall, without taking advantage of lenient LOS checks. Go on. I'll wait. Make a gif and show us, if you're so sure.

Oh, you mean you can't shoot through walls without taking advantage of the lenient LOS checks? Oh man! Oh gosh! I guess that means she can't shoot through walls, now can she?

Your disingenuous argument aside, it'll be nice if DE includes Mesa's 4 in the next LOS update rollout.

Edited April 12 by Armadillidium_vulgare

[LordOfKenpo]

30 minutes ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

Mesa can shoot through walls? Really? Go sit in the front room of the Sanctum Simulacrum room and try shooting the enemies through the wall, without taking advantage of lenient LOS checks. Go on. I'll wait. Make a gif and show us, if you're so sure.

Oh, you mean you can't shoot through walls without taking advantage of the lenient LOS checks? Oh man! Oh gosh! I guess that means she can't shoot through walls, now can she?

Your disingenuous argument aside, it'll be nice if DE includes Mesa's 4 in the next LOS update rollout.

Except there are lenient LoS on that so she CAN. Just because it requires "taking advantage of" this, it is something that can be done. You can't just say "She can't shoot through walls" and when we point out there are cases where she can say that those don't count. That's literally textbook case of victory by definition.

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

8 minutes ago, LordOfKenpo said:

Except there are lenient LoS on that so she CAN. Just because it requires "taking advantage of" this, it is something that can be done. You can't just say "She can't shoot through walls" and when we point out there are cases where she can say that those don't count. That's literally textbook case of victory by definition.

Ah, then Dante is indeed fine as he is, isn't he? Since his LOS is also quite generous as to be able to hit enemies through walls in the same way. Glad we FINALLY cleared that up!

Obviously, the point I'm making is that Mesa has a LOS restriction, and as such she can't shoot through walls without at least seeing the enemy first to take advantage of the lenient LOS. As is, her LOS is a little wonky since she can only target enemies on center mass.

Edited April 12 by Armadillidium_vulgare

[sh0shin]

I guess AoE and chain-beam weapons should have hard LoS checks too huh buddy

PS: no it was not obvious that was your argument. I thought you meant literal wallbanging like a Zenith or popular cheat/hack.

[captn_Pat]

Comparing mesas and dantes 4 is weird, last time i checked mesa didnt need to tag any enemy beforehand she wants to shoot, you just jump around with her and anything that comes into your big circle gets brrrrrrr deleted, press 4 press mouse button, look menacingly around, thats it. Thanks to the loss of sight changes 334 is more like 33 here 33 there, hope there are enough mobs around to be hit by 4, hit 4, miss like 1/3 to 1/2 the mobs you intended to hit because........balance?

I had a higher kpm with loki using only melee influence inodem dagger than trying to kill everything with dantes aptly named tragedy, no joke, tested on omni fissures lua and sanctum survival, 20 to 40 mins a pop. Pressing e on loki (and middlemouse when tennokai) moving forward was more effective than pumping thousands of energy out of dante, but hey, at least he is fixed now, everithing is fine, nothing to see here, moving on.

[Nero.DMC]

41 minutes ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

Ah, then Dante is indeed fine as he is, isn't he? Since his LOS is also quite generous as to be able to hit enemies through walls in the same way. Glad we FINALLY cleared that up!

Obviously, the point I'm making is that Mesa has a LOS restriction, and as such she can't shoot through walls without at least seeing the enemy first to take advantage of the lenient LOS. As is, her LOS is a little wonky since she can only target enemies on center mass.

Dude we are literally asking that enemy's we MARKED with dark verse should be targets through walls, thats all the extra LoS Dante needs to be the same as before but with the stupid LoS that does almost nothing exept annoy us when marked enemies are not getting targeted by the detonator ability... 

Its pathetic you ask for a worse game tho just to align yourself with DE, what do you think you are going to get out of this? a thank you from them? pfff in reality you are just getting a worse game and a whole lot of ppl thinking you are dumb.

Edited April 12 by Nero.DMC

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

29 minutes ago, sh0shin said:

PS: no it was not obvious that was your argument. I thought you meant literal wallbanging like a Zenith or popular cheat/hack.

Yeah, the only way Mesa or any other LOS ability goes through walls is by taking advantage of lenient LOS checks. It's not engrained into their kit as a feature, unlike Thermal Sunder or Miasma hitting everything in range. Hence why it's aggressively ignorant to act as though taking advantage of lenient LOS checks is in any way similar to not having to have LOS checks at all.

10 minutes ago, captn_Pat said:

at least he is fixed now, everithing is fine, nothing to see here, moving on.

Spoiler

 

10 minutes ago, Nero.DMC said:

Dude we are literally asking that enemy's we MARKED with dark verse should be targets throw walls, thats all the extra LoS Dante needs to be the same as before but with the stupid LoS that does almost nothing exept annoy us when marked enemies are not getting targeted by the detonator ability... 

Its pathetic you ask for a worse game tho just to align yourself with DE, what do you think you are going to get out of this? a thank you from them? pfff in reality you are just getting a worse game and a whole lot of ppl thinking you are dumb.

And I don't think that's reasonable, given how massive his range is, and how strong he is even in his current state. When I suggested reducing his range, you freaked out about it, despite claiming it wasn't about performance. Unless they're taking off a scant few meters, you cry that a range reduction would destroy his 4 even worse than the LOS. Just be honest about what you want, rather than hiding behind this veil of "It's about QOL!" or "A range nerf would be fine! (as long as I can still hit 40-50+ meters!)."

He's in a perfectly fine state, and I like where he is now more than where he was before. He's an incredibly strong frame, able to go to level cap without issue, and the fact that they raised his skill floor by a little isn't the end of the world. Doesn't matter whether DE appreciates what I'm arguing with you all about or not, I just appreciate the good things they've done for the game. And if people like you think I'm dumb, clearly I'm doing something right. 

[Nero.DMC]

58 minutes ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

And I don't think that's reasonable, given how massive his range is, and how strong he is even in his current state. When I suggested reducing his range, you freaked out about it, despite claiming it wasn't about performance. Unless they're taking off a scant few meters, you cry that a range reduction would destroy his 4 even worse than the LOS. Just be honest about what you want, rather than hiding behind this veil of "It's about QOL!" or "A range nerf would be fine! (as long as I can still hit 40-50+ meters!)."

He's in a perfectly fine state, and I like where he is now more than where he was before. He's an incredibly strong frame, able to go to level cap without issue, and the fact that they raised his skill floor by a little isn't the end of the world. Doesn't matter whether DE appreciates what I'm arguing with you all about or not, I just appreciate the good things they've done for the game. And if people like you think I'm dumb, clearly I'm doing something right. 

He is strong because intead of balancing him they slapped the good for nothing LoS... he has not gotten any weaker... i think you know this wich makes this argument ridiculous...

i told you ranges that would be aceptable not your dumbass suggestion about 15m hard cap on them... because you think he is that strong that he needs a 15m hardcap wich is extremely ridiculous and literally made me loose any respect i could have for a stranger in the internet. Like your argument is so extremely dumb you need to resort to ridiculous stuff...

He is extremely annoying to play in some tiles and as strong as he was in others... is the dumbest way to nerf a frame i have ever seen. he is not nerfed some times and just annoying in others... and you are happy with that...  

And again you repeat the same stupid S#&amp;&#036; no one cares about... is not about how strong he is, its about how much fun you can have playing him... And playing him in certain tiles RN is just annoying for no reason, he is ---->NOT ANY WEAKER<---- than he was prenerf, you do realize that much right? he is just much much more annoying to play. 

Quote

if people like you think I'm dumb, clearly I'm doing something right. 

No you are not, you are the perfect specimen of the Dunning–Kruger effect.

 

[Stormandreas]

On 2024-04-10 at 8:19 PM, Halo said:

Whoever thought forcing Pillage to have LoS checking on it is a horrible person and only likes things being ruined. 

Thanks for breaking the ability as it can't even pillage enemies BEHIND PILLARS now more than 10 meters away. 

Horrible application, and now I'm dreading to try out everything listed here...
 

Full Thoughts and Main Takeaway: 

Just use Tharros Strike as an armor stripping ability now, it's just better for what you're using it for. 

DE doubling-down on ruining LoS on abilities that frankly should not have it, or that already do have it and making them worse, is just going to simply force us to use better abilities that the game offers in the form of the helminth system. 

Time for Hildy to lose Pillage soon.

Pillage has always had an LoS check... maybe learn how the ability works and has always worked before complaining.

[Levanthan]

3 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I can't recall the results of all of them, but there are at least some others that are blocked or impeded by Overguard and often by other CC immunities.  Equinox Rage, Khora Strangledome, Gara Splinter Storm and Mass Vitrify, Nezha Chakram (because it doesn't affect OG hp), Nova Molecular Prime (because it only affects health hp), and Atlas Petrify resist reduction (if it counts as "vulnerability") all have problems.  The ones I recall for sure do work against Overguard are Caliban Sentient Wrath, Yareli Sea Snares, Sevagoth Reap, and Banshee Sonar.   So it's sort of a mess.

As far as Containment Walls goes though, yes please!  It really could use the help.   It's pretty funny that it doesn't work and Sea Snares does, considering how much more powerful the latter is anyway.

Yeah, I thought it was on an "if it deals damage to CC immune enemies it'll apply damage vuln" but thats unlikely the universal case.

Also, Qorvex seems to get shafted like that in many regards it seems. Pillar empowerment cant be refreshed even though the duration is low, the damage vulnerability from Wall doesn't get applied to the empowerment even though the volatility chaining from Crucible Blast does, Wall only gets longer with range even though it's height and width challenged and he's arguably a range first priority frame, and Disometric Guard doesn't get affected at all by range and also serves as an almost objectively worse overguard/mesmer skin with only offering status immunity and no hp regen or radiation damage per stack for uptime bonus. 

He's so close to having a very good kit but its just not there for lack of true synergies and some synergies being downplayed for reasons unknown. Meanwhile, Dante applies slash procs, makes enemies get statuses way easier, AND massively increases the damages of said statuses. AND he can expedite suffering them for even more effect, cuz reasons. And thats barely half his kit. The synergies and numbers on the effects are stupid high like Yareli's sea snares while Qorvex gets neither.

[Tiltskillet]

3 minutes ago, Levanthan said:

Yeah, I thought it was on an "if it deals damage to CC immune enemies it'll apply damage vuln" but thats unlikely the universal case.

Also, Qorvex seems to get shafted like that in many regards it seems. Pillar empowerment cant be refreshed even though the duration is low, the damage vulnerability from Wall doesn't get applied to the empowerment even though the volatility chaining from Crucible Blast does, Wall only gets longer with range even though it's height and width challenged and he's arguably a range first priority frame, and Disometric Guard doesn't get affected at all by range and also serves as an almost objectively worse overguard/mesmer skin with only offering status immunity and no hp regen or radiation damage per stack for uptime bonus. 

He's so close to having a very good kit but its just not there for lack of true synergies and some synergies being downplayed for reasons unknown. Meanwhile, Dante applies slash procs, makes enemies get statuses way easier, AND massively increases the damages of said statuses. AND he can expedite suffering them for even more effect, cuz reasons. And thats barely half his kit. The synergies and numbers on the effects are stupid high like Yareli's sea snares while Qorvex gets neither.

Yeah, pretty much.  He's one of about 5 frames I regularly play in the last 6 months, but the entertainment value I get from him is basically conceptual, visual and audio design, and beefy innate tank.  All four of his abilities have issues that I think might have been addressed if he'd come out at a different time.  Really strikes me as a parallel with Caliban's release situation.

Although to end on a more cheerful note, I'm much happier with Pillar after this week.  Still could use improvements, but the enhanced LoS basically fixed what to me was its most frustrating problem.

[xXxHeXeHxXx]

It's concerning to see that Dante's ability wasn't reverted but received additional buffs instead. This indicates a potential oversight in addressing community feedback. While it's positive to witness improvements for certain frames, it's crucial to address the neglect of older frames like Nyx, Trinity, Limbo, and especially Caliban. These frames have been overlooked in terms of buffs and adjustments, despite being part of the game for an extended period. It's imperative for DE to ensure balance across all frames, old and new, to maintain a fair and enjoyable experience for all players. I urge the company to prioritize addressing the concerns of the community and providing equitable updates for all frames moving forward.
 

Spoiler

 

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

Was working on my Dante build again, and just wanted to come back and mention how good he is. The nuke being LOS doesn't really hinder him at all, and if anything frees up some mod capacity for more duration and power strength. Having a full minute and a half on his buffs is freaking awesome.

I do kinda wish his casting speed wasn't so slow, it seems like since Citrine's release DE has been using casting speed as a balance factor more often. Bit annoying, but it's one of the very few things holding him back so can't really complain too much. 3 Tau ambers certainly fixes him right up.

Still haven't encountered any energy economy issues, either. Equilibrium and maybe Synth Deconstruct is all he really needs to stay topped off.

Good on DE for fixing the LOS checks and releasing such an awesome frame! I am perfectly happy with the LOS restriction on Tragedy, it's probably the only thing holding him back from being Octavia levels of broken or having Saryn levels of damage while still being one of the strongest support frames in the game.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to wonder if DE didn't nerf him enough, even. He's not only one of the strongest support frames in the game, but he still has a very powerful nuke in addition to all his firepower/status buffs. He has a team wide heal and overguard generation sufficient to hit level cap handily. He's got true damage and a massive detonator that multiplies DOTs to a huge degree. Not only that, but he's got agro control with his birds, and firepower/status support that Citrine would be jealous of. Seriously, the fact that they only lightly nerfed his nuke with an LOS restriction is incredible given how powerful his kit is. 

Edited April 13 by Armadillidium_vulgare

[SamaelWar]

2 hours ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

Was working on my Dante build again, and just wanted to come back and mention how good he is. The nuke being LOS doesn't really hinder him at all, and if anything frees up some mod capacity for more duration and power strength. Having a full minute and a half on his buffs is freaking awesome.

I do kinda wish his casting speed wasn't so slow, it seems like since Citrine's release DE has been using casting speed as a balance factor more often. Bit annoying, but it's one of the very few things holding him back so can't really complain too much. 3 Tau ambers certainly fixes him right up.

Still haven't encountered any energy economy issues, either. Equilibrium and maybe Synth Deconstruct is all he really needs to stay topped off.

Good on DE for fixing the LOS checks and releasing such an awesome frame! I am perfectly happy with the LOS restriction on Tragedy, it's probably the only thing holding him back from being Octavia levels of broken or having Saryn levels of damage while still being one of the strongest support frames in the game.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to wonder if DE didn't nerf him enough, even. He's not only one of the strongest support frames in the game, but he still has a very powerful nuke in addition to all his firepower/status buffs. He has a team wide heal and overguard generation sufficient to hit level cap handily. He's got true damage and a massive detonator that multiplies DOTs to a huge degree. Not only that, but he's got agro control with his birds, and firepower/status support that Citrine would be jealous of. Seriously, the fact that they only lightly nerfed his nuke with an LOS restriction is incredible given how powerful his kit is. 

Did DE paid you to say such a things? They only wait for a person like you with post like yours to not do anything more to revert his LoS changes of Tragedy. Dante is used now mostly for OG buff, his LoS on Tragedy even the big range is so buggy and can't hit almost anything... They have just to revert that skill and even if they want to shrink it that range, as they mentioned it the last Dev short. Don't you see how many people want his revert on the skill. I am from that people as well, because there is no point on spending plats and money on something new when it's gonna be nerfed right away after the release...

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, xXxHeXeHxXx said:

It's concerning to see that Dante's ability wasn't reverted but received additional buffs instead. This indicates a potential oversight in addressing community feedback. While it's positive to witness improvements for certain frames, it's crucial to address the neglect of older frames like Nyx, Trinity, Limbo, and especially Caliban. These frames have been overlooked in terms of buffs and adjustments, despite being part of the game for an extended period. It's imperative for DE to ensure balance across all frames, old and new, to maintain a fair and enjoyable experience for all players. I urge the company to prioritize addressing the concerns of the community and providing equitable updates for all frames moving forward.

I'm not getting my hopes up until I see something solid, but there was a bit of a tease of a tease that Caliban will be getting a look soon.  https://www.youtube.com/live/aMTym46pDns?si=29KF2kyrPgWlkQN9&t=2505

 

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

26 minutes ago, SamaelWar said:

Did DE paid you to say such a things? 

Nah, though it'd be nice if they sent some plat my way (Hint hint, Devs! Gibs me some sweet, sweet sponsorship monies pl0x!)

32 minutes ago, SamaelWar said:

They only wait for a person like you with post like yours to not do anything more to revert his LoS changes of Tragedy. 

You shouldn't expect them to revert the LOS restriction, regardless of what anyone says, tbh. It was simply far too strong in its prior state, considering that it was on top of the rest of his kit.

34 minutes ago, SamaelWar said:

Dante is used now mostly for OG buff, his LoS on Tragedy even the big range is so buggy and can't hit almost anything... 

I mean, his overguard buff is insanely strong as it is. Having that, as well as being able to compete on the level of Saryn and Octavia for damage/nuke is insane. He doesn't need to be able to wipe a map clear when he's already one of the strongest support frames in the game at launch and after the nerfs. Wiping a room, or half a room, is plenty.

37 minutes ago, SamaelWar said:

They have just to revert that skill and even if they want to shrink it that range, as they mentioned it the last Dev short. Don't you see how many people want his revert on the skill. I am from that people as well, 

They don't have to do anything, and after all the insults and toxicity and entitlement from people demanding they revert the LOS changes, I kinda hope they don't. Or, if they do, I hope the finger on the monkey's paw curls accordingly.

42 minutes ago, SamaelWar said:

because there is no point on spending plats and money on something new when it's gonna be nerfed right away after the release...

This is, however, a valid point. Dante was definitely and blatantly overpowered on release, and they should have done the balancing before selling him to the public. Even if he was insanely broken Octavia-tier on release (and still is), it was a poor move on their part. Still, they've worked to fix their mistakes, and I trust them to keep doing so. DE is by no means perfect, but they've taken the opportunity to improve several things that were otherwise clunky/needed adjustments. The LOS system got an overhaul and they're expanding it to improve a bunch of older abilities, which is great. Nezha's augment got improved, Overguard interactions are getting adjusted, and Dante is in a still insane but at least slightly more balanced state.

Unfortunately, they do this every so often. It doesn't happen with EVERY new frame, which is why I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I'm not going to pretend it doesn't happen at all. Citrine, Dagath, those two releases went fine iirc, and same with Qorvex. Styanax was an example of this same problem if I recall correctly, since they nerfed him not too long after his release as well. He's still very strong as well, though. 

[MosesBg]

2 hours ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

Was working on my Dante build again, and just wanted to come back and mention how good he is. The nuke being LOS doesn't really hinder him at all, and if anything frees up some mod capacity for more duration and power strength. Having a full minute and a half on his buffs is freaking awesome.

I do kinda wish his casting speed wasn't so slow, it seems like since Citrine's release DE has been using casting speed as a balance factor more often. Bit annoying, but it's one of the very few things holding him back so can't really complain too much. 3 Tau ambers certainly fixes him right up.

Still haven't encountered any energy economy issues, either. Equilibrium and maybe Synth Deconstruct is all he really needs to stay topped off.

Good on DE for fixing the LOS checks and releasing such an awesome frame! I am perfectly happy with the LOS restriction on Tragedy, it's probably the only thing holding him back from being Octavia levels of broken or having Saryn levels of damage while still being one of the strongest support frames in the game.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to wonder if DE didn't nerf him enough, even. He's not only one of the strongest support frames in the game, but he still has a very powerful nuke in addition to all his firepower/status buffs. He has a team wide heal and overguard generation sufficient to hit level cap handily. He's got true damage and a massive detonator that multiplies DOTs to a huge degree. Not only that, but he's got agro control with his birds, and firepower/status support that Citrine would be jealous of. Seriously, the fact that they only lightly nerfed his nuke with an LOS restriction is incredible given how powerful his kit is. 

So listen my friend there are over 100 pages written with 95% against LoS in any form. Overall this LoS mechanic is a lost cause and has proven ineffective since Dagath was released. In the discord, I mentioned that they should give themselves at least a year to work on the mechanics, to clean up all the bugs and problems, to test it in different situations, and only then to think at all whether to put it on frames. Right now we are test mice and play with a soup frame with lots of limits and restrictions set. I really hope they rethink the frame strategy and completely remove all LoS elements and leave the frame alone and we can have fun with it like we did the first 5 days after its release.

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

3 minutes ago, MosesBg said:

So listen my friend there are over 100 pages written with 95% against LoS in any form.

LOS restrictions are a reasonable balancing factor and I'm tired of pretending they're not. Dante is an incredibly strong frame, he doesn't need a braindead nuke that puts him on the level of Saryn in addition to his amazing support kit. Nobody is bothered that Mesa's 4 has LOS restrictions, to the point that they'll object to the comparison even being made. What about abilities like Pillage? Its LOS restrictions have never been met with any amount of uproar.

I honestly don't care how many pages of people demanding that the changes be reverted there are. 100 pages, 200 pages, 1000 pages: it doesn't matter, because consensus is not a substitute for correctness. Dante is fine in his current state, and I'm tired of people pretending he's not. He's one of the strongest support frames in the entire game, he doesn't need to push Saryn/Octavia off the throne too.

30 minutes ago, MosesBg said:

In the discord, I mentioned that they should give themselves at least a year to work on the mechanics, to clean up all the bugs and problems, to test it in different situations, and only then to think at all whether to put it on frames. Right now we are test mice and play with a soup frame with lots of limits and restrictions set. I really hope they rethink the frame strategy and completely remove all LoS elements and leave the frame alone and we can have fun with it like we did the first 5 days after its release.

It's a live service game that's constantly being updated and adjusted and changed. I completely agree that it'd be nice if they took more time for testing and tuning prior to releases. It's be great if something wasn't getting broken every other patch. But DE does a pretty great job of making things right, and the fact that so many people will jump down their throats and claim they're terrible and the worst ever the instant they're not catering to the lowest common denominator is frustrating. DE isn't perfect, and criticism is fine, but what players want and what devs want can be entirely at odds without either side being malicious or hating fun.

Dante was very overpowered on launch, and they botched the LOS adjustment at first. They've since improved it and are using those improvements to make other frames better as well. So, sure, I expect that more things will get broken and need fixing. It's a live service title, after all.

But I also trust them to fix things, and that generally they know what they're doing. Sometimes I'm disappointed, but this most recent patch isn't one of those times.

The community response, on the other hand.... Well. I'm just glad we the players are not in charge of balance, because consensus is not correctness and by god it really, really shows in these threads.

[Gandalf_White]

17 hours ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

Mesa can shoot through walls? Really? Go sit in the front room of the Sanctum Simulacrum room and try shooting the enemies through the wall, without taking advantage of lenient LOS checks. Go on. I'll wait. Make a gif and show us, if you're so sure.

Oh, you mean you can't shoot through walls without taking advantage of the lenient LOS checks? Oh man! Oh gosh! I guess that means she can't shoot through walls, now can she?

Your disingenuous argument aside, it'll be nice if DE includes Mesa's 4 in the next LOS update rollout.

The amount of twisting and moving goalposts you go through just to get your way...

You: "Mesa can't shoot through walls at all"

Me: "She can, based on these conditions"

You: "Oh so she still can't shoot through walls!"

The lenient LoS checks are only on her. They are part of her kit. It's how her ability was meant to work and it works fine. They are NOT on Dante nor any other warframe in existence.

[captn_Pat]

I loved Dante at release not for his buffs for allies but the fun it was killing stuff with him, now everytime i use his damage abilities i wonder why bother, my weapons can do a better, way more efficient job at it, everything i look at will 100% be dead pushing 1 button, expending 0 energy. The 334 frenzy playstyle before with lots of rebuffing in between was taxing on the fingers but the results where glorious, now his 4 does mostly the same thing as a strun incarnon but with the added anoying "feature" that randomly a mob here and there just decides to not be damaged at all.

LOS ON TRAGEDY IS ANOYING, CLUNKY,GLITCHY,UNNECESSARY,JUST PLAIN WRONG, IT SUCKS A GREAT DEAL OF FUN OUT OF HIM. GET RID OF IT PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF CLEM

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

3 hours ago, Gandalf_White said:

The amount of twisting and moving goalposts you go through just to get your way...

Ask any player if Mesa can shoot through walls, and the honest, common answer will be "No, she can't." You can take advantage of her lenient LOS, but the fact of the matter is that "Umm Akshuallyyyy wallhax" isn't part of her kit in the way it was with Dante. The fact that you seize on it so hard to try and pretend that Dante wasn't insanely OP with Wallhacks is absurd, and more than a little sad.

Me: Mesa's 4 has LOS restrictions as a balance/limiting factor. If those were removed, she'd be broken OP in the same way Dante was, so it's perfectly reasonable for Dante to get LOS restrictions for his nuke, which he gets on top of the rest of his outstanding kit.

You: umm akshually Mesa can wallhacks by taking advantage of her LOS under these specific conditions

Me: That doesn't disprove my point about LOS restrictions being a balancing factor.

You: LOL OWNED OMGBBQ I am very smart.

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:

its not that you want to stay there, sometimes you just are there or need to be there for any reason, or you are walking to get to a point or whatever reason, also sometimes you are in more open spaces enemies just moved out of your LoS after being marked or you moved a bit to the left or you turned your camera the other way, there are several reason for this change to feel much much worse, while not a single one of them to justify this change as being for the better.

So you feel he plays worse, fine. But then dont go and say the following aswell.

20 hours ago, Nero.DMC said:

Dante feels worse to play there is no subjective opinion about this, you are trying to justify something that is pretty much not justificable but you went all in with your protection of DE for some reason, not that they need you to protect them from feedback... 

Because it is indeed a subjective opinion. Otherwise we wouldnt be of a different opinion or have results of people not noticing a difference. Since what it comes down to is that he feels different, because people played him in a different way to others. 

17 hours ago, LordOfKenpo said:

Except there are lenient LoS on that so she CAN. Just because it requires "taking advantage of" this, it is something that can be done. You can't just say "She can't shoot through walls" and when we point out there are cases where she can say that those don't count. That's literally textbook case of victory by definition.

It's the same for any other LoS required frame. It is just more visible for Mesa due to her rapid fire, where you might see several hits behind the wall, while on other frames that tap per cast the second cast might be considered blocked by the wall. It's like LoS and poor netcode, like what people experienced in BF4 for about a year after release. You got behind a wall and still got killed a second later by someone that clearly didnt have LoS to you.

[WeaverDuck]

Well, it seems this is first time i comment in this thread (whoever mods this should chill a bit).
Its obvious that Dante plays worse than on release as this nerf is not just in numbers.
Paid 700p for him cuz went for the bundle, put 10 forma totall into frame and the book and that was money/time well spent cuz I had fun - first time in years really - till they had to "fix" what was not broken.
It surprises me how devs can be so stubborn and blind regarding their community. 

Put that broken LoS on everything (volt, saryn, everything) and check what will happen. After all, that will only be your happy little accident.

 

[DavidDragonS]

I still have connection problems.
It separates me from the squad after a few minutes.

[tartcactus]

Just as soon as my Helminth finishes absorbing Dante, then he will be in a good place.

 

By the way, anyone else notice that Tragedy is still tragically underperforming?

 

Dante is still crippled. Revert the nerf

 

Remove the Tragedy nerf from Dante

 

Dante went to rank 30 prior to being crippled. Now he is fed to the Helminth. At least he is still useful for that.

 

Anybody got any response to a refund request for Tennocon, Dante, etc. since they crippled Dante? Asking for a friend.