Room Nukes vs uh... everything else.

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

On 2024-04-15 at 5:46 AM, Genitive said:

The aoe damage meta and the recent changes to overguard that basically killed crowd control are anything but healthy for the game. Sure, nuking rooms is fun, but when every new warframe is a room nuke with some support, why would I choose Nyx or Loki, when their most useful cc abilities don't work on those enemies that need cc the most?

There is a lot I'd like to see changed, which probably won't happen, ever.

My first hope for Overguard was that it would be something similar to Nox protection- resistance to AOE and melee but much weaker to single target abilities and precision damage. They're a staple heavy unit design in co-op games for a good reason. I still don't understand why invalidating CC was a priority, or why OG isn't being adjusted more frequently when its end effect has been invalidating CC and completely failing to affect the simplistic nuke chase other than reinforcing it even further.

[Xzorn]

11 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

It depends on the content. Apparently this is a general case? and it doesn't work everywhere.
As with eidolons, I prefer to use volt+sniper.
for hardcore sp corpus speedruns I prefer to use volt+dual ichor.

Or the weapon simply doesn't matter because everything falls over so quickly in SP run in public?

and even Saryn with 3 weapon buffs becomes a monster. augment for first skill, replace second skill with dmg buff. and then take a mele weapon that benefits from the 3 buffs and supplements the primary + secondary weapon with status or, like furax, with a mod buff.

and at lab weekly there was khora and angstrum to choose from. my khora has max cc with ash shuriken + augment. 1-2 shuriken and health bar turns red and angstrum incarnon kills enemy instantly. und my angstrum has no slash...
and in the end there was disruption. The weapon hardly plays a role, because Khora declares checkmate on the mechs with 2nd skill.

 

You're missing an entire layer which is what I was talking about.

Synergy between a frame abilities and a weapon has always been a layer. The layer I mentioned was how to mod that weapon with the frame against the enemy against the level range of the enemy. There was just more to it before. Khora + Gas was a nice mix for certain situations. It would be even more fun with Angtrum bouncing. That would be something to use against unarmored or if you added one of the Rad mods against Infested since you'd need to counter Toxic Ancient's aura.

Anstrum Incarnon is pure elemental. Which plays into my mentioning the War Riven I had. Pure elemental was incredibly useful before. Usually didn't have much for numeric damage output but you countered that with damage amp abilities. In War's case neither were needed and it would have just been a monster weapon.

I used Torrid forever. Long before it's current state. Pox also. Players used to complain about Armor scaling but refused to pick up a pure elemental weapon.
The trick was simple. You could amp weapon damage easily but only Mirage and now Citrine can amp status rates.

The changes to level scaling and the status system just didn't solve anything and opened instant AoE up to the higher level ranges.

[PR1D3]

3 hours ago, BansheeAndZephyrMarried said:

My first hope for Overguard was that it would be something similar to Nox protection- resistance to AOE and melee but much weaker to single target abilities and precision damage. They're a staple heavy unit design in co-op games for a good reason. I still don't understand why invalidating CC was a priority, or why OG isn't being adjusted more frequently when its end effect has been invalidating CC and completely failing to affect the simplistic nuke chase other than reinforcing it even further.

Funny you say that cause enemy Voidrigs are that but they use Damage Attenuation in combination with their weakspots. Love em. The Juggernauts had a similar function but could use some tweaks. And I don't find them imposing when in regular missions, they're the size of a really fat Kubrow. Now if OG was how you described that would also be super.

The sad part is that WF's sandbox is amazing in its own right. The pieces are there but things are in their own box and/or unoptimized. That's another downside of the content islands. They also tend to localize the good ideas along with the bad ones. The new team has been slightly bucking this trend but they still have some room for improvement, but they inspire hope in me. They could do so much content just from balancing and breaking things out of their box and implementing them across the wider game.

[Loza03]

On 2024-04-13 at 8:10 PM, Xzorn said:

 

Yep. It's actually what made me quit playing for 5 years. I was an endurance runner, mostly solo towards the end. Just my thing to stay entertained.
Instead of balancing offense vs defense to get far in levels as you could it's now simplified to just don't die.

Players were obsessed with Armor scaling and really it didn't need to scale to remain cumbersome. Give an enemy 500 Armor and it's still 62% DR. Options against Armor didn't change. We gained Heat but lost Pure Physical Bleed for certain weapons. We also lost Blast, Gas, Viral + Electric, Gas + Cold also.

In the previous status system I managed to find value in every damage type except Magnetic.
Now it's generally just Corrosive, Viral, Heat, Toxic, Bleed. I find it mechanically inferior and they solved nothing.

Honestly, it doesn't really matter what DE decides to build their scaling on, just that they actually decide to set a baseline.

Mod scaling isn't really the same as armour scaling or shield scaling, and 'Arcane Scaling' you could call for poor Operators. And even then, different mod categories have different scaling to some degree. Granted that part is a little better than it used to be (Melee 2.0 was such an offender here), but Warframe needs a consistency pass, really. I know it'd be a lot of work, but I can't help but wonder how much less work it'd make in future if there was a clear baseline for all the balancing and design to work from.

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

36 minutes ago, PR1D3 said:

Funny you say that cause enemy Voidrigs are that but they use Damage Attenuation in combination with their weakspots. Love em. The Juggernauts had a similar function but could use some tweaks. And I don't find them imposing when in regular missions, they're the size of a really fat Kubrow. Now if OG was how you described that would also be super.

The sad part is that WF's sandbox is amazing in its own right. The pieces are there but things are in their own box and/or unoptimized. That's another downside of the content islands. They also tend to localize the good ideas along with the bad ones. The new team has been slightly bucking this trend but they still have some room for improvement, but they inspire hope in me. They could do so much content just from balancing and breaking things out of their box and implementing them across the wider game.

Game modes like Disruption and Cascade give me hope as well.

I don't even feel that strongly AOE needs to be nerfed. AOE meta will always be a thing in a game like Warframe. What Disruption and Cascade prove is that having the most basic enemy variety of occasional heavy units/miniboss that cannot be solved by mook wiper AOE does absolute wonders for gameplay flow, because the core gameplay of Warframe is a damn good one when it rewards you for juggling its many parts. It's the kind of variety I wish older endless missions, especially Survival and Interception were blessed with- the lone Acolyte every few minutes in SP isn't nearly enough. 

[Mr.Holyroller]

What's fun in warframe is always a tough topic.
Any playmode is fun if im hanging out and talk to friends.
The game can also be extremely boring in any of its content.
When I play solo and im not just trying to get something out of the way, I tend to play meme builds or frames that require more activity just to kinda keep me engaged.

 

[dreadgame]

Some people like creative game style(i'm placing you here)

Some people just want to finish mission ASAP and collect rewards and head to another mission and collect rewards asap

Do as you will, warframe gives you that option