Warframe is a game held back by how easy it is

[4thBro]

See what I mean? Lol

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

1 hour ago, 4thBro said:

Yeah, well... Sorry to add fuel to the fire, but this fire has been directly attacking me for at least 15 pages and is trying to slide it off as innocent, maybe even deserved.

 

It is what it is, I guess.

Tbf, you wouldn't get that type of treatment if you didn't do the whole "Fallacy this, ad hominem that" shtick when someone says something you don't agree with. Putting words in other people's mouths didn't help your case either.

[4thBro]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

Tbf, you wouldn't get that type of treatment if you didn't do the whole "Fallacy this, ad hominem that" shtick when someone says something you don't agree with. Putting words in other people's mouths didn't help your case either.

I did the fallacy "shtick" because I got tired of directly responding to the fallacies with full responses. It was much easier to simply explain why what they said was a fallacy.

 

Then he used that against me, which was absolutely wild.

 

I never put words in anyone's mouth, though. I've cited all of my sources and reasons for everything I've said.

It never had anything to do with whether or not I agree. It had to do with actual fallacies. And it was growing tiresome.

 

They spent many pages telling me that if I didn't have a full detailed description on exactly how an endgame should function, that I had nothing to contribute and was just "chasing a dream." That's not putting words in their mouths, you can go see this at any time.

And that's the nirvana fallacy.

 

I don't think I need to tell you about the ad hominem. I quoted a bunch of it on this page. How else would you have me respond to those posts, other than just pointing out that they are ad hominem?

 

And when people say that I don't want rewards, or that I want to change the game for my own desires and everyone else be damned, or whatever else they claim i said...

How many times do I have to go back and repeat myself, versus simply telling them it's straw man? That i never said those things.

 

Not only is it tiring, but as I've also said before, it also just didn't feel right. It feels like they're doing it on purpose. Banging pots and pans together as loudly as they can, to intentionally devolve the conversation so that all DE will see would be pure chaos, and decide... "Well this seems like a heated topic, maybe we shouldn't mess with the addition of an endgame."

 

 

 

 

Anyway... I could go on forever about their abuse of fallacies, and why it's universally important for every individual to be aware of them, and able to identify them in a discussion.

But at the end of the day... I already have. And it's all in this thread somewhere. I don't mind giving recaps, but for details as well as the history of my interactions with this guy in particular... it's all here in this thread for anyone to see.

[RafMatador22]

27 minutes ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

Tbf, you wouldn't get that type of treatment if you didn't do the whole "Fallacy this, ad hominem that" shtick when someone says something you don't agree with. Putting words in other people's mouths didn't help your case either.

I agree, I called this guy annoying a few pages ago, and apparently he's still here lol

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

2 minutes ago, RafMatador22 said:

I agree, I called this guy annoying a few pages ago, and apparently he's still here lol

Besides the way he's been carrying himself, he's had some interesting stuff to say. It's just lost when that sense of self superiority comes out. That's the only reason people are against him. I even agree with him on a few points, but like I said...it's lost when he tries to be a victim when clearly he's been hostile since this started.

[dwqrf]

il y a 3 minutes, RafMatador22 a dit :

I agree, I called this guy annoying a few pages ago, and apparently he's still here lol

il y a 31 minutes, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario a dit :

Tbf, you wouldn't get that type of treatment if you didn't do the whole "Fallacy this, ad hominem that" shtick when someone says something you don't agree with. Putting words in other people's mouths didn't help your case either.

For the soon to be fallen brothers.

[4thBro]

5 minutes ago, RafMatador22 said:

I agree, I called this guy annoying a few pages ago, and apparently he's still here lol

Am I supposed to leave because you called me annoying?

(But I'm the self centered one, somehow.)

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

16 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

I did the fallacy "shtick" because I got tired of directly responding to the fallacies with full responses. It was much easier to simply explain why what they said was a fallacy.

 

Then he used that against me, which was absolutely wild.

 

I never put words in anyone's mouth, though. I've cited all of my sources and reasons for everything I've said.

It never had anything to do with whether or not I agree. It had to do with actual fallacies. And it was growing tiresome.

 

They spent many pages telling me that if I didn't have a full detailed description on exactly how an endgame should function, that I had nothing to contribute and was just "chasing a dream." That's not putting words in their mouths, you can go see this at any time.

And that's the nirvana fallacy.

 

I don't think I need to tell you about the ad hominem. I quoted a bunch of it on this page. How else would you have me respond to those posts, other than just pointing out that they are ad hominem?

 

And when people say that I don't want rewards, or that I want to change the game for my own desires and everyone else be damned, or whatever else they claim i said...

How many times do I have to go back and repeat myself, versus simply telling them it's straw man? That i never said those things.

 

Not only is it tiring, but as I've also said before, it also just didn't feel right. It feels like they're doing it on purpose. Banging pots and pans together as loudly as they can, to intentionally devolve the conversation so that all DE will see would be pure chaos, and decide... "Well this seems like a heated topic, maybe we shouldn't mess with the addition of an endgame."

 

 

 

 

Anyway... I could go on forever about their abuse of fallacies, and why it's universally important for every individual to be aware of them, and able to identify them in a discussion.

But at the end of the day... I already have. And it's all in this thread somewhere. I don't mind giving recaps, but for details as well as the history of my interactions with this guy in particular... it's all here in this thread for anyone to see.

Well not to be that guy, but if you bring up endgame, people expect you to explain what exactly you're thinking about. People aren't mind readers, you gotta express your idea, because everyone's idea of an endgame won't be the same. I don't hate you, my first time engaging with you was out of line and I am sorry about  that, but you can't sit here and play victim when you've been spewing as much venom as you claim people are throwing at you. 

Edited August 27 by (PSN)ErydisTheLucario
Clarity

[RafMatador22]

6 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

Am I supposed to leave because you called me annoying?

(But I'm the self centered one, somehow.)

I think you should have looked for something better to do a long time ago, and please don't respond to me, I have no interest in having any dialogue with you. I already know the type you are.

[4thBro]

9 hours ago, (PSN)ErydisTheLucario said:

Well not to be that guy, but if you bring up endgame, people expect you to explain what exactly you're thinking about. People aren't mind readers, you gotta express your idea, because everyone's idea of an endgame won't be the same. I don't hate you, my first time engaging with you was out of line and I am sorry about  that, but you can't sit here and play victim when you've been spewing as much venom as you claim people are throwing at you. 

I'm actually about to go back and check the full history of this thread, to either prove that i didn't spew the first strings of venom, or to hold myself accountable for indeed doing so.

I've definitely become venomous towards a couple people in here, but it feels reactive, rather than instigative. But we'll see. (Also I'm at work, so that'll be a slow process.)

 

Anyway, as for endgame itself:

I've suggested one thing in a separate thread. It wasn't fully fleshed out, but was merely the start of an idea. One singular version of infinite possibilities for an endgame.

And do you know what people in that thread did?

"I wouldn't play it, so I don't think DE should make this."

And that's all well & good... enough so, anyway, I suppose. That's still weirdly selfish logic to be your entire reason you don't think they should add it, but that's fine for this topic. Moving on...

Do you know what they said in THIS thread about it?

That I got "destroyed" in that thread. Because a few people disagreed with that implementation of an endgame.

Which says to me that they see this whole thing like a game that they're trying to win. Like this isn't a discussion about how to improve WF, but rather a "red vs blue" scenario, and they're trying to be victorious. (I do explain this somewhere in this thread.)

 

And this is also where the nirvana fallacy comes in.

I've already tried giving an example of what the endgame could look like. But because it wasn't favored by the majority of viewers, it became used as an example of why there shouldn't be an endgame at all. And my refusal to sit in my free time and come up with examples until I get one to be perfect is being used against me as well. Why would I subject myself to come up with something for a group of people that are actively trying to sabotage the idea in the first place?

 

I dunno, man. I really appreciate that you're having an open mind here. And I'm not gonna pretend that I couldn't have been more polite and patient throughout this thread.

But the honest truth is that I don't have the amount of patience that would be required to deal with these guys all the way through.

Edited August 28 by 4thBro
Oops, I said BHVR instead of DE, lmao!!

[4thBro]

10 minutes ago, RafMatador22 said:

I think you should have looked for something better to do a long time ago, and please don't respond to me, I have no interest in having any dialogue with you. I already know the type you are.

(And this post is getting Likes, lol.)

 

Do you see what I mean???

They post such tone-deaf, venomous, self-centered, self-important posts. All while claiming that I'm basically a lower life form.

And they have absolutely no inkling whatsoever that they might be in the wrong.

 

Come on now.

[4thBro]

On 2024-08-03 at 10:42 AM, 4thBro said:

What the hell is a higher level mission that isn't being nuked?

 

The highest starting level Steel Path is only 200-something.

 

The quickest way to 1000+ enemies is Duviri, and they also get nuked (even without decrees).

 

What content are you playing that doesn't get nuked???

I mean, granted, I'm aware that I'm MR16 and tend to be doing 90%+ of the damage on any given mission while people with maxed MR are running around like headless chickens -- aka, most people are terrible.

But even still... Agreed, this game is too easy. And when I suggest a Greater Rift mode, people say "no, don't add that, because I wouldn't play it".

 

This game is held back by its playerbase.

----

Skimming through the thread, there's a lot of what I like to call "Neckbeard Analysis" going on.

Which means a lot of overanalysis and trying to sound smart.

When all we need to do is shut the hell up and add good things into the game. Nobody cares about this Neckbeard Analysis about, "Oh but what IS a video game?" or, "You see, it's not PROFITABLE because history shows..."

 

Just shut up and do the good thing. If some people like it, and it doesn't get in the way of anyone that doesn't, just shut up and do it.

Holy crap I'm so tired of all this nonsensical fluff.

This is my first post in here, on page 3. It certainly is more abrasive than it needs to be. Not an excuse, but: This overall topic is certainly not a new one, and I have remnant frustration from when it always comes up. But this is a new batch of people, so that's on me.

That being said, I do stand by the overall message in this post, and most of how I said it. And I was certainly not the one that turned the thread hostile.

 

And I would say the "just play with mk1 weapons" post on page 1 was the first post to be entirely disingenuous, and might be ground zero on how this thread devolved into mush. Perhaps it was a slow burn, but I feel like it opened up the invitations. "Oh, we're just posting bullsh**? Okay, let's post bullsh**!"

Edited August 27 by 4thBro

[vixenpixel]

2 hours ago, 4thBro said:

Yeah, well... Sorry to add fuel to the fire, but this fire has been directly attacking me for at least 15 pages and is trying to slide it off as innocent, maybe even deserved.

 

It is what it is, I guess.

Well Im sorry to hear that. I was just joking around. I thought the beep bop made that clear. No hurt feelings I hope! *big huggsies*

Feel better! 😇

Edited August 27 by vixenpixel

[dwqrf]

il y a 3 minutes, vixenpixel a dit :

Well Im sorry to hear that. I was just joking around. I thought the beep bop made that clear. No hurt feelings I hope! *big huggsies*

Feel better! 😇

You are so nice, they should make a floof out of you !

[MrInubis]

41 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

(And this post is getting Likes, lol.)

 

Do you see what I mean???

They post such tone-deaf, venomous, self-centered, self-important posts. All while claiming that I'm basically a lower life form.

And they have absolutely no inkling whatsoever that they might be in the wrong.

 

Come on now.

Well if its 1 person you may call him a D.. and move on but when 10 tell you the same thing there might be a chance you are in the wrong isnt it?

[4thBro]

4 minutes ago, vixenpixel said:

Well Im sorry to hear that. I was just joking around. I thought the beep bop made that clear. No hurt feelings I hope! *big huggsies*

Feel better! 😇

I know.

I just knew that he'd let it go to his head, so I wanted to make things clear, lol. A bit unnecessary, I admit.

 

 

Beep bop back at you.

(Although I'm more of a beep boop guy.)

[vixenpixel]

Just now, dwqrf said:

You are so nice, they should make a floof out of you !

Nyaa nyaa uwu!! 🥰

Let's all be frens. 

[4thBro]

Just now, kuciol said:

Well if its 1 person you may call him a D.. and move on but when 10 tell you the same thing there might be a chance you are in the wrong isnt it?

No.

There's a fallacy for that, actually. I don't have my notepad on my phone. But it's a fallacy that tries to claim that the amount of support an idea has is reason as to why it's a correct (or incorrect) idea, which is clearly invalid reasoning.

 

Once upon a time not long ago, most people believed the earth was flat.

 

If one person says a crazy thing, it's a crazy thing.

If ten people say the crazy thing, then, quite simply, it's now ten people saying the crazy thing. More people saying it does not change what's being said, and therefore do not change its status.

[dwqrf]

il y a 2 minutes, kuciol a dit :

Well if its 1 person you may call him a D.. and move on but when 10 tell you the same thing there might be a chance you are in the wrong isnt it?

He will never admit being wrong. He can't. His brain cannot compute this single simple possibility, it's against his nature. That's how they work. Debating with logic, facts, proofs, anything making any sense, is a waste of time ; so opinions are even worst. He is just going to scream and stir for more attention. Muting him is sadly the only way to go.

[4thBro]

8 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

That's how they work

And here we go again.

[vixenpixel]

5 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

He will never admit being wrong. He can't. His brain cannot compute this single simple possibility, it's against his nature. That's how they work. Debating with logic, facts, proofs, anything making any sense, is a waste of time ; so opinions are even worst. He is just going to scream and stir for more attention. Muting him is sadly the only way to go.

I find admitting I can be wrong about things to be truly liberating. It's also a hallmark of true intelligence. Being open to accepting the truths I don't own yet. Sometimes it's hard. Like if I go and say a thing with such fervent certainty that I stake my pride on it. But if I learn to theorise from collected evidence, it's easier. There could be things I missed, things either not made available to me when I made my assumptions or things I neglected to learn because I didn't pay enough attention. Maybe they seemed minute to me. I don't know. It's how I try to comport myself anyway but truthfully, I'm not smart enough to do it all the time. 

One of the premier reasons it's liberating to admit I'm wrong is that it's a good way to make friends. You can literally dismantle a nation's arsenal's worth of arguments by just saying "Oh, yeah. I hadn't thought about that. :)" 

It's also okay to say "I think this is how it works but I'd have to make sure."

I think what happened in this thread was that too much was staked on an opinion. Opinions are kinda worthless in a sense. It's like building a tower of babel on clay!! Everybody knows it's made of bodies, clay just isn't the right type of material to support all of those bodies.

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, vixenpixel a dit :

I find admitting I can be wrong about things to be truly liberating. It's also a hallmark of true intelligence. Being open to accepting the truths I don't own yet. Sometimes it's hard.

Not too long ago, I jumped on a topic about how disruptive was Volt Speed. So I claimed it was working like Wisp Motes/Oberon Heal, in the sense that you drop it on the ground and people lagging behind will get the buff while walking through it. In my memory, it was the way it used to work, and still worked that way. A new player maining Volt that never played the old version pointed that I was talking sh*t. I was upset.

So I took a few hours to read the whole patch note history in the wiki and show him that the spell was designed that way. But I wasn't even convinced about my own theory. So I tried it in game and to my surprise it didn't match with my knowledge. So I went again to dig the history patch note to find out that... well, I was just wrong, claming eight years old knowledge was still true, when it was changed somewhere along the way.

So I apologized, and I had learnt something. He accepted my apologies, and we all walked a bit smarter. That was a good interaction.

[PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE]

Warframe is held back by suspending it's best playerbase for 10 years without any reason.

[TeaHands]

Wargame is frame that's the James Name.

Bond's games the name.

[dwqrf]

il y a 5 minutes, PHOSPHATIDYLETHANOLAMINE a dit :

Warframe is held back by suspending it's best playerbase for 10 years without any reason.

Wait what ? What do you mean, I don't understand.