It's just not fun anymore

[4thBro]

Just now, Haleks said:

Are you missing the point on purpose ?

Yes, he does that.

To sit there and say "you can still play, just buff the person that's insta-clearing the mission" is very obviously a disingenuous response.

 

To you, I would say... don't really worry about this. As you keep going into higher content in the game, I promise you this will become rarer and rarer. Stacking multiplicatively with that, as you get stronger and stronger, you will be able to compete with these things more, as well.

The problem will definitely dwindle as you progress.

[PrideB4TheFall]

2 hours ago, Haleks said:

I don't understand why DE is obsessing so much about "new player experience" when, to me at least, the biggest problem with Warframe is the total lack of balance. Pretty much every single session I played these past weeks had a Gauss - or worst, a Titania - zipping through levels while spamming Thermal Sunder, be it in normal or SP chart... Where's the fun in running behind a noisy fireworks fest that obliterates everything before you even have a chance to lay eyes on it ?

It's mindblowing to me that DE would invest so much efforts through several major updates to improve the new player experience (which, arguably, is unnecessary - everything from the prologue to The Sacrfice being perfectly fine), while ignoring relatively easy (nerf goddamn Thermal Sunder already!) or urgent fixes that would, most likely, benefit player retention. It is way too easy currently for a team member to completely ruin a session for others, to the point that I'm finding myself quitting games whenever I see a Titania (or a Mirage, or a Gauss) joining the party. The power creep is so prevalent that the recent damage rework had absolutely no effect whatsoever - a returning player probably wouldn't even realize that damage has been "overhauled" recently.

 

I mean, I had more fun trying The First Descendant, even though its gameplay is extremely basic and its artistical direction so blend that it feels like watching an AI-generated poster...

Yeah you know, I agree with some of your points however, you don't have access to the interior warframe metrics at the company's disposal. They know far better than you or I at what DE needs to keep going. Agreed that I don't use Titiania / Sunder. That is purely out of spite and contempt for the players who engage in that BS.

[Traumtulpe]

What is it with people coming to the forum and saying "I want every group I'm in to play the game very slowly, and clear mission deliberately ineffectively, so I can pointlessly slowwalk over to some level 5 Lancer and punch it to death over the course of 10 seconds. Because that's how I enjoy the game."

Play random matchmaking, win random matchmaking prizes. If you don't like it look for people who want to play the same way you do in recruitment chat.

[4thBro]

Just now, Traumtulpe said:

What is it with people coming to the forum and saying "I want every group I'm in to play the game very slowly, and clear mission deliberately ineffectively, so I can pointlessly slowwalk over to some level 5 Lancer and punch it to death over the course of 10 seconds. Because that's how I enjoy the game."

Play random matchmaking, win random matchmaking prizes. If you don't like it look for people who want to play the same way you do in recruitment chat.

Agreed. Of course.

 

I think the focal point of the OP's thread is about how frequently this happens for him. So, admittedly, if we were to say this happens in 100% of someone's missions, it would be obnoxious and worth mentioning. I think we can all agree with this.

So that's why my focus of response is that, if it is indeed this common for the OP, it almost certainly won't remain so if he continues down the WF path of growth.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

12 minutes ago, Haleks said:

What help would a TS Titania need when she's already cleaning up rooms by spamming one button

Again, which -ALOT- of warframes can do.

Not just titania and Gauss.
 

Saryn. Press/Hold 1. Get free corrosive. Apply big badaboom badaboom primary weapons that nuke rooms.

Mirage. See ^ 

Xaku&Gyre. (after initial 15 sec setup is done, WASD keys is all you need.

Dante. 3333333333333333333* Edit button number*

Equinox. Press 3 while in day mode. Press 4. RUN.

Sevagoth. Equip 2 augment. Press 2. Enjoy true dmg killing stuff. Press 2 as needed.

Khora. 11111111111111111111111

Ember. Equip 4 augment. Run, press 4. Run. Rince repeat.

Frost. See ^

Garuda See ^ press 2 as energy is needed.

Octavia. EXIST.

 

Do you want me to go on about 1shot combo´s? 

Edited Wednesday at 04:36 PM by -ShadowRadiance-

[Traumtulpe]

3 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

I think the focal point of the OP's thread is about how frequently this happens for him. So, admittedly, if we were to say this happens in 100% of someone's missions, it would be obnoxious and worth mentioning. I think we can all agree with this.

So that's why my focus of response is that, if it is indeed this common for the OP, it almost certainly won't remain so if he continues down the WF path of growth.

Yeah kinda. But Thermal Sunder *is* something he'll see frequently in fissure missions. Of course he could just switch to Steel Path fissures and the problem disappears.

Edited Wednesday at 04:35 PM by Traumtulpe

[Zakkhar]

13 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

These kinds of replies are a bit disingenuous, and there are a few of them. Obviously the OP wants to be able to play the game, not just have things automatically completed for him. This shouldn't even have to be explained.

This would be fine if it was some kind of soulslike where you get fun of progressing something on your own - and people forcibly join killing the bosses for you. But not only you can block them from joining in multiple ways, it is also a grind shooter, where you spam missions to get stuff and the faster you spam them, the more you can do in the short window the happen to be available (or your time suffice).

It is Clint Eastwood old man noises on people who just do the mission objective as efficiently as possible. If he is too slow or feel inadequate, that is only his personal problem. If he doesnt like that, he shouldnt put himself in those situations. Not attempt to ban people running, because he cant keep up.

Edited Wednesday at 04:37 PM by Zakkhar

[Zakkhar]

16 minutes ago, Haleks said:

What help would a TS Titania need when she's already cleaning up rooms by spamming one button ?

I just cant stop wondering. If the nuking happen with spamminng 2 or 3 buttons, would you be ok with it? Or also no?

[Haleks]

5 minutes ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

Again, which -ALOT- of warframes can do.

Not just titania and Gauss.
 

[...]

 

Do you want me to go on about 1shot combo´s? 

So, because plenty of things are broken, we refrain from fixing any one of them, is that it ?

[4thBro]

1 minute ago, Zakkhar said:

Not attempt to ban people running, because he cant keep up.

Ah, maybe we found the crux of your issue with his posts.

 

At no point does he suggest to ban these players, or anything like that. He is merely expressing frustration with the game for having this killing method. So that's a bit different.

"Don't hate the player, hate the game." Well, he's doing just that! (Except, more accurately, he's criticizing the game, not hating it. I'd wager that he loves this game, and would like to see it improve, which is the source & nature of nearly 100% of complaints.)

[Zakkhar]

4 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

At no point does he suggest to ban these players, or anything like that. He is merely expressing frustration with the game for having this killing method. So that's a bit different.

He suggest to nerf one particular ability, which is basically ban to running.

Quote

nerf goddamn Thermal Sunder already!

Once running is nerfed (banned), people who use bikes, skateboards and scooters will keep anoying him. So will have to ban those also.

Edited Wednesday at 04:45 PM by Zakkhar

[4thBro]

Just now, Haleks said:

So, because plenty of things are broken, we refrain from fixing any one of them, is that it ?

Well, that's the thing. In fact, NOT many things are broken.

 

... Not in the way you're thinking, I mean. Those things that just zip by and clear the whole map? No, those aren't ACTUALLY broken. They are just broken at clearing trivial content. (And, yes, it does suck that these players are infesting the trivial content, when I could bet my life they don't actually belong there at all. It's just like any other game where "higher rated players" intentionally downrank to invade lower Elo settings.)

Cut to endgame content, and... sure, there's a lot of "broken" things, so to speak. But they aren't insta-clearing the entire map while zooming around at mach 72 speeds. You can match what they do with non-broken stuff. They're basically just overkilling things by a larger degree, and that doesn't matter in any way whatsoever.

[4thBro]

1 minute ago, Zakkhar said:

He suggest to nerf one particular ability, which is basically ban to running.

Once running is nerfed (banned), people who use bikes, skateboards and scooters will keep anoying him. So will have to ban those also.

 

I'm not going to be disingenuous and pretend I don't know what you're saying. But it's the slippery slope fallacy. I mean, they've already nerfed things as it is. Obviously. It's not like nothing in WF has ever been nerfed. But most of those things were still playable, thus not being "banned." Just adjusted. And those nerfs didn't then lead to any cataclysmic universal string of nerfs that touched everything that had anything to do with it.

 

That being said, Thermal Sunder does not need a nerf, as it is actually weak. It's really just a situational problem, and all the OP has to do is look forward, because he WILL get out of those situations by simply "holding W."

[-ShadowRadiance-]

1 minute ago, Haleks said:

So, because plenty of things are broken, we refrain from fixing any one of them, is that it ?

You say broken. 

But i say this intended. As i said previously, and as the devs have said REPEATIVLY. Which seem to have eluded you.

Warframe is a POWER FANTASY GAME. 

What you are trying to label as broken and thus, have nerfed. Is IMO laughable and not gona happen.

You are asking the devs to change the games main audience and intended audience by nerfing things, in this case, Thermal sunder. (And i wonder, whats gona be next after? i bet you have something else thats bothering you)

If other plays, POWER is above yours to the point its bothering you in group content. There is a solo que. A invite only que. A friend que. Use them.

 

Do not expect others to slow down a mission to a crippling halt cause 'meh, il let someone get some kills' You wont find such players within this gaming community.

[tucker_d_dawg]

I agree with the OP that the game is really just a blink-and-you'll-miss-it loot collector.  (focusing on Titinia TS is missing the point, and she's hardly the biggest offender)

There are two ways to "play" warframe - You can either be a meta slave and nuke things in the blink of an eye, or just settle in and be a vacuum.

The only thing that slows WF players down is game timers (ala defense/interception etc..) - but capture/spy/exterminate/disruption- the enemies are an afterthought and no challenge at all.  A balanced version of wf would have exterminates/spy/captures taking roughly as long as timed objectives. 

That said, I would HATE that universe where the nukes went away given piss poor drop rates, quantities of resources needed etc.  But Warframe is not a strategic fight simulator where you need to think about your load outs, strategies etc - you just equip your nuke of choice, turn the map into a wasteland, and grofit.

I guess there is a third way - solo everything, choose weak loadouts and hack/slash enemies one at a time or pepper them with single target low dps guns... but no one is going to do that.

[Zakkhar]

7 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

And, yes, it does suck that these players are infesting the trivial content, when I could bet my life they don't actually belong there at all.

You'd be dead then, because those playstyles totally belong in Fissure missions. Nobody is infesting anything. You do the mission that is fastest tto complete, so you can do more of them. Why would you run SP Survival and open 1 relic per 5 minutes, if you can spam Capture/Extermination on Void and not only open 1 relic per minute but also get 1 relic per run.

And of course you will want to pick a frame that speeds up the mission for everyone.

7 minutes ago, 4thBro said:

It's just like any other game where "higher rated players" intentionally downrank to invade lower Elo settings.)

If there is no alterior motive, the just waste their time, because they will have to wait for the newbies inn the extraction zone anyway.

Edited Wednesday at 04:53 PM by Zakkhar

[4thBro]

 

(Please stop saying "power fantasy," that's not a real genre.)

[dwqrf]

il y a 4 minutes, Haleks a dit :

So, because plenty of things are broken, we refrain from fixing any one of them, is that it ?

So, lets say you like to play defense missions.

I suppose you know what defense mission are, how to play them, what the aim of the mission. As in : defend the cryopod,  don't let it take damage and explode. Right ?

Then you play public missions, and 95% of the time, you are matchmade with people playing Frost, Gara, Limbo, making the pod quite untouchable.

Is that an issue ? Those people bring the best tools to complete the mission. You didn't ; and by your metrics, you should be struggling to kill the enemies faster than they attack the pod, while also using health and shield regeneration spells to recover the damaged pod. But that's just you.

 

People bringing the best tools to do any missions is the whole point of the game's available variety : Completing it with the least amount of time spent, risks, and efforts. Don't blame people, or the game, for giving us the tools to do so. Of course people are going to abuse the path of least resistance, always.

[Haleks]

11 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

It is Clint Eastwood old man noises on people who just do the mission objective as efficiently as possible. If he is too slow or feel inadequate, that is only his personal problem. If he doesnt like that, he shouldnt put himself in those situations. Not attempt to ban people running, because he cant keep up.

Too slow or inadequate ? Are you kidding me ?

By that logic, everyone has to play Titania over any of the 50+ warframes available or be told to play another game. What kind of backward pseudo-elitist logic is that ? For something as dumb & easy as a TS Titania ?

Sometimes it feels like half the people here worry more about whatever cheesy meta they love to engage with than the quality of the game they play...

[4thBro]

Just now, Zakkhar said:

You'd be dead then, because those playstyles totally belong in Fissure missions. Nobody is infesting anything. You do the mission that is fastest tto complete, so ou cann do more of them. Why would you run SP Survival and open 1 relic per 5 minutes, if you can spam Capture/Extermination on Void and not only open 1 relic per minute but also get 1 relic per run.

I literally prefer Survival relics to Capture/Exterm ones, because it's more fun.

Leaving and rejoining a mission over and over is SUCH a drag. Meanwhile, slaughtering enemies forever and ever is much more appealing than spending 50% of my time in the WF UI.

 

I don't know when everyone became such Loot Goblins that they forgot what Fun means, but I musta dodged that epidemic somehow. I'm not so hungry for more things that I'll do boring crap for it, lol.

[Haleks]

3 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

So, lets say you like to play defense missions.

I suppose you know what defense mission are, how to play them, what the aim of the mission. As in : defend the cryopod,  don't let it take damage and explode. Right ?

Then you play public missions, and 95% of the time, you are matchmade with people playing Frost, Gara, Limbo, making the pod quite untouchable.

Is that an issue ? Those people bring the best tools to complete the mission. You didn't ; and by your metrics, you should be struggling to kill the enemies faster than they attack the pod, while also using health and shield regeneration spells to recover the damaged pod. But that's just you.

That doesn't relate to the problem I'm talking about : you still have to kill attackers, and everyone gets to play a part in it. Which is all that matters IMO : the game, even played casually, should leave room for everyone to participate - that is not the case currently.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

3 minutes ago, Haleks said:

By that logic, everyone has to play Titania over any of the 50+ warframes available or be told to play another game.

If it where a game node where she is the go to pick? 

 

Read everything after this, in Goofy's voice. *Ahoyk noises*

"Ohh gee, this map im about to do, it has alot of lockpicking in it, i better make absolutely sure, i bring a warframe that CANNOT make that any easier on me, *Ahoyk noises*

 

"Ahh, the enemy has armor, and is immune to armor strip. I better bring double armor strip and weapons that deal minimal damage to armor." *Ahoyk noises*

 

"This is a racing map. Lets bring mesa and press 4 in the whole mission." *Ahoyk noises*

[4thBro]

4 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

So, lets say you like to play defense missions.

I suppose you know what defense mission are, how to play them, what the aim of the mission. As in : defend the cryopod,  don't let it take damage and explode. Right ?

Then you play public missions, and 95% of the time, you are matchmade with people playing Frost, Gara, Limbo, making the pod quite untouchable.

Is that an issue ? Those people bring the best tools to complete the mission. You didn't ; and by your metrics, you should be struggling to kill the enemies faster than they attack the pod, while also using health and shield regeneration spells to recover the damaged pod. But that's just you.

 

People bringing the best tools to do any missions is the whole point of the game's available variety : Completing it with the least amount of time spent, risks, and efforts. Don't blame people, or the game, for giving us the tools to do so. Of course people are going to abuse the path of least resistance, always.

 

But to be honest, nobody likes Defense, lol.

So that brings me to a point I didn't know how to transition into until you gave me the window:

 

There are two types of... not just missions, but THINGS that you do in Warframe.

1. Things you enjoy, whether you need to do them or not.
2. Things you need to do, but don't enjoy, and are thus chores.

 

For the 2nd category... YES, absolutely. Bring the thing that speeds it up, regardless of whether or not you feel like playing that Frame or build or whatever. This whole endeavor is a chore anyway.

For pretty much EVERYONE, that's ANY Defense mission.

Spy is also very much the same situation.

After that, though... it starts getting case-by-case. For example, I'm not a fan of doing 3x missions for my Archon hunts. Time for Volt. Although I do like playing him anyway, I'm sure as hell not bringing Ember. I wanna get this crap over with.

 

But if we're gonna sit in a Void Cascade, maybe a Fissure one? Well now I'll bring whoever I feel like playing, for FUN. This is category #1.

 

The difference is incredibly important.

[dwqrf]

il y a 4 minutes, Haleks a dit :

That doesn't relate to the problem I'm talking about : you still have to kill attackers, and everyone gets to play a part in it. Which is all that matters IMO : the game, even played casually, should leave room for everyone to participate - that is not the case currently.

So, you bring a Healer to those defense and your whole kit is negated by a Frost, but yet, you "partcipated", right ?

[4thBro]

Just now, dwqrf said:

So, you bring a Healer to those defense and your whole kit is negated by a Frost, but yet, you "partcipated", right ?

This is the same argument you gave him about buffing the Titania so she can 1-shot the whole map, but "harder."

 

Damn, I JUST gave you a "technically correct" image, too. That wasn't easy to bring myself to give to you.