Tyana pass is pure hell to grind and is just disrespectfull to anyone's time

[kerozen666]

So, i went to do the mission to help a friend, thinking i might finally get the things i'm missing for once, and that the grind might have not been that bad and it's my memory making things up.

NOPE. 

It was a base level run, and we did 4 rotations, grabbed every fragment on the map. came out with 100 of each. the price for the cheapest weapon part: 150/250. it's ludicrous that even going all in for the side rewards, you only get crumbs of progression. and steel path is barely better, with only 50% extra, so you only barely get more for forcing yourself to do it there. 

Please adjust the store price or increase the rewards. it's been long enough with that horrible grind

[Quest]

Combined with the mission somehow being harder and less fun than regular defense. At least in regular defense when you kill all the enemies you get to move on to the next wave. Not here.

This is fine for survival and sanctuary onslaught, where there are incentives to kill at faster rates, but in mirror defense it hurts the experience.

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, kerozen666 a dit :

So, i went to do the mission to help a friend, thinking i might finally get the things i'm missing for once, and that the grind might have not been that bad and it's my memory making things up.

NOPE. 

It was a base level run, and we did 4 rotations, grabbed every fragment on the map. came out with 100 of each. the price for the cheapest weapon part: 150/250. it's ludicrous that even going all in for the side rewards, you only get crumbs of progression. and steel path is barely better, with only 50% extra, so you only barely get more for forcing yourself to do it there.

It's actually really fine. People have to get used to play C rot of a mobile defense instead of spamming Hydron and ESO and they will get everything specified to this gamemode handed to them in no time while farming xp and ressources.

Don't focus only on the cristals or the part you didn't get, it's a great cross farming. And it even has a pity shop.

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

9 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

It's actually really fine. People have to get used to play C rot of a mobile defense instead of spamming Hydron and ESO and they will get everything specified to this gamemode handed to them in no time while farming xp and ressources.

Don't focus only on the cristals or the part you didn't get, it's a great cross farming. And it even has a pity shop.

We don't enjoy the game mode, so we want the grind lessened.
I can always do a multi farm mission, but Mirror Defense is just a horrible mission type.

Conjunction Survival is what I see as a good multi farm mission.

[Hikuro-93]

Not only that, it doesn't even appear in fissures. Which means we can't even lessen the issue with the mission boosters, or multitask while farming Tyana.

[dwqrf]

à l’instant, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE a dit :

Mirror Defense is just a horrible mission type.
Conjunction Survival is what I see as a good multi farm mission.

Mirror Defense is just a horrible mission type for you.
Conjunction Survival is what you see as a good multi farm mission for you.

There is worst. There is better. It depend on many factors, and that's only an opinion. In my opinion, it's really not that bad. I've seen Mirage Trap Nuke going nut in xp gain and old school Banshee Coffee going purely aoe control in Mirror Defense, and that's great to have this kind of diversity. It's quicker than classic defense, and keep the squad bonded better than a survival.

Be glad DE isn't pushing more content into Spy and Defection (which I would love, but I suppose, you'd hate).

il y a 2 minutes, Hikuro-93 a dit :

Not only that, it doesn't even appear in fissures. Which means we can't even lessen the issue with the mission boosters, or multitask while farming Tyana.

That's true. It should.

[Quest]

Conjunction survival is pretty good especially now that it can be in fissures

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

Just now, dwqrf said:

Mirror Defense is just a horrible mission type for you.
Conjunction Survival is what you see as a good multi farm mission for you.

There is worst. There is better. It depend on many factors, and that's only an opinion. In my opinion, it's really not that bad. I've seen Mirage Trap Nuke going nut in xp gain and old school Banshee Coffee going purely aoe control in Mirror Defense, and that's great to have this kind of diversity. It's quicker than classic defense, and keep the squad bonded better than a survival.

Be glad DE isn't pushing more content into Spy and Defection (which I would love, but I suppose, you'd hate).

To be effective in the mission you have to split your squad into two roles.
Both splits have to do their part, but not even intermingle often.

The mode should be reworked to actually combine both squad roles. If you defend the objective, you should increase the spawn rate of crystals or have the crystals slowly vaccum to you.
 

19 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

It's actually really fine. People have to get used to play C rot of a mobile defense instead of spamming Hydron and ESO and they will get everything specified to this gamemode handed to them in no time while farming xp and ressources.

Don't focus only on the cristals or the part you didn't get, it's a great cross farming. And it even has a pity shop.

You started by saying this mode is fine, and saying that people should get used to not getting what they want immediately.
So which is it, should we respect each other opinions on this, and have a dialogue, or should we suck it up.

Doesn't matter. You started talking about your opinion as if it was fact, and then get mad when I do the same.

12 minutes ago, Quest said:

Conjunction survival is pretty good especially now that it can be in fissures

14 minutes ago, Hikuro-93 said:

Not only that, it doesn't even appear in fissures. Which means we can't even lessen the issue with the mission boosters, or multitask while farming Tyana.

A double dip in a farm does ALOT.
I have never had more cryotic in my life since they added excavations to Circuit.

[kerozen666]

13 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

We don't enjoy the game mode, so we want the grind lessened.
I can always do a multi farm mission, but Mirror Defense is just a horrible mission type.

Conjunction Survival is what I see as a good multi farm mission.

I personally enjoy the game mode, it's a fun potential distraction. However, the amount of grind you need to do basicly ruins it. you can't take it vhill because you NEED to grab those fragments if you want to get citrine AND the rest of the gear in a timely manner. The lab version of it is 100X better because you only get the stuff through rotations, so you just grab the glyphs if you want to. it still take forever to get the mods mind you, but at least you don't have your chill farming ruined by hweving to gatter the glyphs 

[Pakaku]

29 minutes ago, Quest said:

Combined with the mission somehow being harder and less fun than regular defense. At least in regular defense when you kill all the enemies you get to move on to the next wave. Not here.

This is fine for survival and sanctuary onslaught, where there are incentives to kill at faster rates, but in mirror defense it hurts the experience.

because it’s not pure defense, it’s more of a mobile defense spinoff with parkour incentives. Uranus defense with the four rotating objective points is what you’re thinking of when you expect defense.

[Quest]

I think a really simple change that would help a lot is just having the timer go down by a few seconds for every 10 enemies killed or something like that.

33 minutes ago, Quest said:

Combined with the mission somehow being harder and less fun than regular defense. At least in regular defense when you kill all the enemies you get to move on to the next wave. Not here.

This is fine for survival and sanctuary onslaught, where there are incentives to kill at faster rates, but in mirror defense it hurts the experience.

Thus solving this problem.

2 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

because it’s not pure defense, it’s more of a mobile defense spinoff with parkour incentives. Uranus defense with the four rotating objective points is what you’re thinking of when you expect defense.

I don't see how that matters. Mobile defense is boring as well. You sit in one spot and wait for a timer to go down.

[dwqrf]

il y a 3 minutes, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE a dit :

To be effective in the mission you have to split your squad into two roles.
Both splits have to do their part, but not even intermingle often.

You don't have to be that absolute. Anybody can help in many and multiples ways without being stuck to a specific role.

 

il y a 4 minutes, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE a dit :

You started by saying this mode is fine, and saying that people should get used to not getting what they want immediately.
So which is it, should we respect each other opinions on this, and have a dialogue, or should we suck it up.

Doesn't matter. You started talking about your opinion as if it was fact, and then get mad when I do the same.

Getting used to it is a frienly advice I'm giving you. Because there is way worst, and you shall as well grind it somedays. I like the gamemode and I understand how balanced it is, how fair it is, and compared to many other things, it's even guaranteed to get what you want thanks to a pity shop. So arguing that it's a horrible grind doesn't feel right to me.

I respect your opinion that you don't like it. It's fair, you don't have to like it ; And you have to know you don't even have to play it. But you decided to.

What I don't respect is the way you value the devs hard work by saying what they do is "pure hell [...] and [...] just disrespectfull to anyone's time".

That's not really respectful now, is it ?

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

7 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

because it’s not pure defense, it’s more of a mobile defense spinoff with parkour incentives. Uranus defense with the four rotating objective points is what you’re thinking of when you expect defense.

9 minutes ago, kerozen666 said:

I personally enjoy the game mode, it's a fun potential distraction. However, the amount of grind you need to do basicly ruins it. you can't take it vhill because you NEED to grab those fragments if you want to get citrine AND the rest of the gear in a timely manner. The lab version of it is 100X better because you only get the stuff through rotations, so you just grab the glyphs if you want to. it still take forever to get the mods mind you, but at least you don't have your chill farming ruined by hweving to gatter the glyphs 

I see the issue as it having 2 objectives with very little overlap. If they combined these two objectives, it would be a great gamemode.
As it stands now, you have to split the squad in half. This ruins pub lobbies, and limits the frames you can play if on parkour duty solo.

it's not as big of an issue for Necralisk because the grind isn't as one to one related as it is on Tyana Pass

[dwqrf]

il y a 3 minutes, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE a dit :

it's not as big of an issue for Necralisk because the grind isn't as one to one related as it is on Tyana Pass

Munio is way harder to grind because you don't have a pity shop for Tome Mods.

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

2 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Getting used to it is a frienly advice I'm giving you. Because there is way worst, and you shall as well grind it somedays. I like the gamemode and I understand how balanced it is, how fair it is, and compared to many other things, it's even guaranteed to get what you want thanks to a pity shop. So arguing that it's a horrible grind doesn't feel right to me.

I respect your opinion that you don't like it. It's fair, you don't have to like it ; And you have to know you don't even have to play it. But you decided to.

What I don't respect is the way you value the devs hard work by saying what they do is "pure hell [...] and [...] just disrespectfull to anyone's time".

That's not really respectful now, is it ?

You have to realize that people don't get used to things they don't like if that thing is optional. They simply quit.
In warframe, that means doing something else, or farming plat and buying it.

If a players sees something as not worth their time, they won't do it. 

At the end of the day, the work put behind a product doesn't matter as much as people's reaction to it.  Respectful or not, it's a player asking for change to make their playtime more fun. 

If that means getting through this mission quicker, so be it. I'd rather the mission type get reworked. I have done this mission so many times, mainly in pubs, and have come to the conclusion that if I don't get gems no one will. So simply playing this mission means taking on a role, I don't want, where it feels my teammates have a different role, and we don't interact.

[kerozen666]

53 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

It's actually really fine. People have to get used to play C rot of a mobile defense instead of spamming Hydron and ESO and they will get everything specified to this gamemode handed to them in no time while farming xp and ressources.

Don't focus only on the cristals or the part you didn't get, it's a great cross farming. And it even has a pity shop.

ok, i'm going to assume at this point that you just lurk the forums instead of actually playing the game, because calling that grind fine is just so disconected from reality. The reward pool is overbloated to hell with arcanes 2 weapons and a frame, and the time it take to get anything from the pity shop is worse than other gamemode who don't have one

[dwqrf]

il y a 11 minutes, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE a dit :

You have to realize that people don't get used to things they don't like if that thing is optional. They simply quit.
In warframe, that means doing something else, or farming plat and buying it.

If a players sees something as not worth their time, they won't do it. 

At the end of the day, the work put behind a product doesn't matter as much as people's reaction to it.  Respectful or not, it's a player asking for change to make their playtime more fun. 

If that means getting through this mission quicker, so be it. I'd rather the mission type get reworked. I have done this mission so many times, mainly in pubs, and have come to the conclusion that if I don't get gems no one will. So simply playing this mission means taking on a role, I don't want, where it feels my teammates have a different role, and we don't interact.

You know, their is still a dedicated pool of players grinding Eidolons. Even if you don't. And they have fun doing it, and it's really lucrative for them even if Vosfor were introduced.

Nobody is forcing you to play this gamemode, only yourself.

Also, you get cristal even if nobody pick any, again, you choose to play in some absolute mind set of splitting the team in activities ; while actually, anyone can chip in.
 

il y a 6 minutes, kerozen666 a dit :

ok, i'm going to assume at this point that you just lurk the forums instead of actually playing the game, because calling that grind fine is just so disconected from reality. The reward pool is overbloated to hell with arcanes 2 weapons and a frame, and the time it take to get anything from the pity shop is worse than other gamemode who don't have one

And I farmed it the hard way, to get 2x Citrine for myself and Helminth. And I had fun doing it, I was even pleased to have something to do.

Of course I lurk on the forums instead of playing the game ; because I already farmed it and I completed my codex. I finished Warframe 100% without spending a cent in it ; so I'm quite sure I know how hard it is to do so. And I'm sure you don't.

Warframe is a looter shooter. Now you are facing the looting part. It's filled with RNGs and takes loads of time. Are you really that surprised ?

[quxier]

1 hour ago, kerozen666 said:

It was a base level run, and we did 4 rotations, grabbed every fragment on the map. came out with 100 of each. the price for the cheapest weapon part: 150/250. it's ludicrous that even going all in for the side rewards, you only get crumbs of progression. and steel path is barely better, with only 50% extra, so you only barely get more for forcing yourself to do it there. 

Let's forget about per rotation reward, right? I'm not saying it's the best ( I've seen worse) but at least let's be more or less fair.

54 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

To be effective in the mission you have to split your squad into two roles.
Both splits have to do their part, but not even intermingle often.

Is it bad? I don't want my teammate not doing their part like in RJ or friendly-doors.

55 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

The mode should be reworked to actually combine both squad roles. If you defend the objective, you should increase the spawn rate of crystals or have the crystals slowly vaccum to you.

 

It kind of do it. If you gather 50 crystal - you have some protection. If you defend objective you have "between crystals". Sure, more crystal would help.

43 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

55 minutes ago, kerozen666 said:

I personally enjoy the game mode, it's a fun potential distraction. However, the amount of grind you need to do basicly ruins it. you can't take it vhill because you NEED to grab those fragments if you want to get citrine AND the rest of the gear in a timely manner. The lab version of it is 100X better because you only get the stuff through rotations, so you just grab the glyphs if you want to. it still take forever to get the mods mind you, but at least you don't have your chill farming ruined by hweving to gatter the glyphs 

I see the issue as it having 2 objectives with very little overlap. If they combined these two objectives, it would be a great gamemode.
As it stands now, you have to split the squad in half. This ruins pub lobbies, and limits the frames you can play if on parkour duty solo.

Unless solo (but that's solo problems in general) we had no big problems.

[Binket_]

I've said to many, I'll keep saying it so long as it's relevant.
Any mission type that forces me to sit around and strictly wait on a timer is a bad one.
The less one has to do to upkeep their objective? The more boring it is.

Especially when Disruption- the polar opposite of this idea- exists and is still the best addition of a gamemode.

With Mirror Defense? All you have to hypothetically do to "progress" is ensure that enemies can't move or die.
It's fully possible to lock down an entire room with Condemn all the way to "Level Cap"... even with the enemies you've snared staying at Level 20.
Does that sound like fun, DE? Does that sound like something stable and totally-not-exploitable?

 

So yeah, of course this is Tyana Pass grind is horrible.
It's a result of DE not knowing how the hell they want to make the game.

 

36 minutes ago, kerozen666 said:

ok, i'm going to assume at this point that you just lurk the forums instead of actually playing the game

Oh, he does. I got him blocked because he offers nothing of value 99% of the time.
There's a shocking amount of people like that in this community.
^{What's the other 1%? Reminding me that I should carry a fistful of radiation procs for players like him!}

 

[dwqrf]

il y a 45 minutes, Binket_ a dit :

I've said to many, I'll keep saying it so long as it's relevant.
Any mission type that forces me to sit around and strictly wait on a timer is a bad one.
The less one has to do to upkeep their objective? The more boring it is.

Especially when Disruption- the polar opposite of this idea- exists and is still the best addition of a gamemode.

It's funny you mention mission with a timer being bad, than say Disruption is the opposite, while it has a timer in between each round, and many timers as mecanics.
 

il y a 46 minutes, Binket_ a dit :

It's a result of DE not knowing how the hell they want to make the game.

They do know : time is money, and DE knows it well. And if you don't like to wait around, you can pay, and I'm sure you do. And free to play people like me enjoying the game as is are really glad people like you pay to skip by sheer impatience and entitlment. It feeds the company and give me content to play and to grind for.

[vixenpixel]

6 hours ago, kerozen666 said:

So, i went to do the mission to help a friend, thinking i might finally get the things i'm missing for once, and that the grind might have not been that bad and it's my memory making things up.

NOPE. 

It was a base level run, and we did 4 rotations, grabbed every fragment on the map. came out with 100 of each. the price for the cheapest weapon part: 150/250. it's ludicrous that even going all in for the side rewards, you only get crumbs of progression. and steel path is barely better, with only 50% extra, so you only barely get more for forcing yourself to do it there. 

Please adjust the store price or increase the rewards. it's been long enough with that horrible grind

Yeah i agree. I actually bought citrine on release and then i set to farming her. I had devised the idea that if i farm for all the arcanes i will get her parts as drop rewards on the way. This, in the end, turned into a soul crushing endeavor. Don't get me wrong. I actually love(d) the mission. I absolutely don't like how defense works but mirror defense is different. It's just action packed and interesting. I loved it. For the first few days of farming i didn't even notice the price-tag. I gave titania a try aswell but this playstyle gave me such a migraine I hired a newer player to help me by giving him all the titania parts and fifty plat to rush her. When the player went mysteriously on vacation for a week i realized my mistake... Anyway, by week two my decision to farm it all had backfired. I hated mirror defense. Not because it was a bad mission because i truly think it's fantastic and beats the hell out of the slow pace boredom snooze pyjama parties of regulat defense doling out enemies by the dozen while taking a minute to send you up or down an elevator occasionally. Absolutely wish they would just hose us down with one ginormous wave. 

Anyway. Price tag was way too high. So high it ruined the experience for me.