Tau Damage and Sentient weapons

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Tau damage type is now a thing, with a proper status effect and everything.

My question is, can we add some portion of Tau damage to weapons that are sentient faction related?

List of possible weapons :

• Shedu (sentient arm cannon)
• Basmu (sentient rifle)
• Venato (Caliban signature scythe)
• War & Broken War (said to be fragments of Hunhow himself)
• Nataruk (sentient bow)

 

Other potential candidates :

• Amalgam weapons :
  • Battacor & Ocucor
  • Komorex & Cyanex
• Signature weapon :
  • Phantasma (and prime)
  • Tatsu (and prime)
• Narmer weapons :
  • Verdilac
  • Nepheri
  • Korumm
• Other :
  • Ceti Lacera (named after Tau Ceti)
  • Paracesis (sentient slayer)

 

It doesn't need to be a huge portion of the damage, but having it present on these weapons (while potentially problematic) would tie in better the whole "oh it's of sentient origin" thing. And unlike void magnetize bubbles, tau status effect is actually desirable.

Edited 3 hours ago by Fred_Avant_2019
Added Tatsu, Ceti Lacera and Paracesis as potential candidates.

[Waeleto]

56 minutes ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

War

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE BUFF THE WAR

[LittleLeoniePrime]

yes please cyanex my beloved 🥺

[(PSN)MYKK678]

This would defeat the purpose of Tau Damage altogether.

It was explained that Caliban was given Tau Damage Status similar to how Dante can make enemies more vulnerable to status damage. In other words, it's supposed to be a mechanic exclusive to these 2 Warframes (so far).

If you add that to Weapons, it immediately takes that advantage away. Thus both Warframes become weaker.

[quxier]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

This would defeat the purpose of Tau Damage altogether.

It was explained that Caliban was given Tau Damage Status similar to how Dante can make enemies more vulnerable to status damage. In other words, it's supposed to be a mechanic exclusive to these 2 Warframes (so far).

If you add that to Weapons, it immediately takes that advantage away. Thus both Warframes become weaker.

Not really. OP suggested 5/2/1/3 weapons. I would say 5 first and 3 last would fit. And you have hundreds of weapons.

12 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

thus both Warframes become weaker.

same could be said about Dante being weaker because Dante needs scans and Pageflight.

[dwqrf]

il y a 8 minutes, (PSN)MYKK678 a dit :

This would defeat the purpose of Tau Damage altogether.

It was explained that Caliban was given Tau Damage Status similar to how Dante can make enemies more vulnerable to status damage. In other words, it's supposed to be a mechanic exclusive to these 2 Warframes (so far).

If you add that to Weapons, it immediately takes that advantage away. Thus both Warframes become weaker.

I do disagree.

Tau status will surely come later into the game on weapons with the addition of the Tau System and the Sentient arc with Murex maps and such. DE already hinted at it. Having Tau damage and status for Caliban is another hint. It won't be exclusive to Caliban as it's actually really weak as a Warframe mecanic.

It's just a Status that doesn't do anything except helping other status procc.

Dante is completely different. His Paragrimms grant +%Status chance and +%Status Damage together, and scale with strength. Tau status does not scale with strength nor grant %Status Damage.

If Caliban Tau Status was compared to Dante's Paragrimms, it was just in order to explain that it's a vunerability debuff improving the chance of proccing exteriors status.

[LittleLeoniePrime]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Thus both Warframes become weaker.

status chacne and status damage mods already exist... and in fact they added status damage mods in reaction to creating page flight.

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

I think Tau Damage could become a thing, but Tau status procs are too strong to be seen regularly.

The mini-mag bubbles these create allow projectile weapons to hit multiple times per enemy.

This is particularly a problem for the Komorex, so if it was added innnate this thing would be absurd.

[dwqrf]

il y a 8 minutes, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE a dit :

I think Tau Damage could become a thing, but Tau status procs are too strong to be seen regularly.

The mini-mag bubbles these create allow projectile weapons to hit multiple times per enemy.

If think you are confusing Void Damage/Status and Tau Damage/Status.

Void Status does the bullet Vortex, and is exclusive to Amp and Xaku's 1 (Helminthable).

Tau Status only improve your chances of doing more Status on target.

[(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE]

37 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

If think you are confusing Void Damage/Status and Tau Damage/Status.

Void Status does the bullet Vortex, and is exclusive to Amp and Xaku's 1 (Helminthable).

Tau Status only improve your chances of doing more Status on target.

Oh my bad. 

Yeah, give us more of this. It would at least be nice to have it on calibans helminth ability. I'm pretty sure in the description it removes it entirely.

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Other potential candidates :

• Amalgam weapons :
  • Battacor & Ocucor
  • Komorex & Cyanex
• Signature weapon :
  • Phantasma (and prime)
• Narmer weapons :
  • Verdilac
  • Nepheri
  • Korumm

I don't have an opinion on the proposal, but Ceti Lacera, Tatsu, and Paracesis seem like possibilities too.  Probably stretching the idea passed the snapping point, but the Amalgam weapon mods could add a bit of tau damage.

1 hour ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said:

Yeah, give us more of this. It would at least be nice to have it on calibans helminth ability. I'm pretty sure in the description it removes it entirely.

The chance to inflict tau status was removed from the helminth version.  Though according to the ability screen it still does tau damage if that matters to...I don't know, a roleplayer, I guess? :P

[(PSN)MYKK678]

On 2024-10-04 at 9:34 AM, dwqrf said:

I do disagree.

Tau status will surely come later into the game on weapons with the addition of the Tau System and the Sentient arc with Murex maps and such. DE already hinted at it. Having Tau damage and status for Caliban is another hint. It won't be exclusive to Caliban as it's actually really weak as a Warframe mecanic.

It's just a Status that doesn't do anything except helping other status procc.

Dante is completely different. His Paragrimms grant +%Status chance and +%Status Damage together, and scale with strength. Tau status does not scale with strength nor grant %Status Damage.

If Caliban Tau Status was compared to Dante's Paragrimms, it was just in order to explain that it's a vunerability debuff improving the chance of proccing exteriors status.

"If Caliban Tau Status was compared to Dante's Paragrimms, it was just in order to explain that it's a vunerability debuff improving the chance of proccing exteriors status"

.......... well yes. That paragraph literally makes the rest of your post redundant. It was compared by Pablo, and the vulnerability to other statuses is.... exactly.... how they're..... similar.....

Did you need more time to put these thoughts together or something? I'm not in a rush here, you have all the time you need. If you need an extra hour or two to look at why "they're completely different, but also the same" makes no sense you've got that time, no permission necessary. Or were you just following?

 

On 2024-10-04 at 9:32 AM, quxier said:

Not really. OP suggested 5/2/1/3 weapons. I would say 5 first and 3 last would fit. And you have hundreds of weapons.

same could be said about Dante being weaker because Dante needs scans and Pageflight.

Yes, 5 + 2 + 1 + 3 does indeed equal 11. So 11 weapons that don't need to have this.

It's kind of odd to bring up the "hundreds of weapons" point in a game that has struggled non stop with Meta Weapons. I'm not entirely sure what the point was meant to be there but there doesn't seem to be a relevant one. What is relevant is an attempt to stop more Meta weapons from being released.

I'm not getting the Dante example here? If Caliban has an option to make enemies more vulnerable to statuses, that makes them equals, not one stronger than another. If you put this status on Weapons that any Warframe can use, these 2 Frames become weaker compared to everyone else, not compared to each other. What were you refering to?

 

On 2024-10-04 at 9:36 AM, LittleLeoniePrime said:

status chacne and status damage mods already exist... and in fact they added status damage mods in reaction to creating page flight.

Cool. I'm aware. Mods that Dante can use on his weapons and thus, he didn't lose an advantage as he still has his Power + those mods, vs other frames just having those mods. This is different. We're not talking about mods and having to give up slots for something here, the OP made it very clear we're talking about Innate Mechanics added to Weapons that should only be present on Caliban.

[dwqrf]

il y a 11 minutes, (PSN)MYKK678 a dit :

"If Caliban Tau Status was compared to Dante's Paragrimms, it was just in order to explain that it's a vunerability debuff improving the chance of proccing exteriors status"

.......... well yes. That paragraph literally makes the rest of your post redundant. It was compared by Pablo, and the vulnerability to other statuses is.... exactly.... how they're..... similar.....

Did you need more time to put these thoughts together or something? I'm not in a rush here, you have all the time you need. If you need an extra hour or two to look at why "they're completely different, but also the same" makes no sense you've got that time, no permission necessary. Or were you just following?

Well, yes, those two abilities can be compared only on the Status Chance Vulnerability effect, which means it improving the chance of proccing any Statuses on the target, as a debuff.

You said :

Il y a 7 heures, (PSN)MYKK678 a dit :

It was explained that Caliban was given Tau Damage Status similar to how Dante can make enemies more vulnerable to status damage.

But in fact, Caliban's Tau Status can only improve Status Chance Vulnerability, and not Status Damage Vulnerability, which are two different things.

Dante on the other hand can improve Status Chance Vulnerability AND Status Damage Vulnerability at the same time.

Also, Caliban's Tau Status is a new base element, much like Heat or Void, can be applied 10 times, has a 8s individual duration, and grants +10% Status Chance Vulnerability (up to +100% at 10 stacks).

Dante is a Spell debuff; doesn't have a duration (to my knowledge), which improve Status chance and Status Damage on affected target, based on +50% both at base Power, and scale with added Power ; meaning you can get +250% Status Chance and Status Damage Vulnerability at 500% Power, for example.

[quxier]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

7 hours ago, quxier said:

Not really. OP suggested 5/2/1/3 weapons. I would say 5 first and 3 last would fit. And you have hundreds of weapons.

same could be said about Dante being weaker because Dante needs scans and Pageflight.

Yes, 5 + 2 + 1 + 3 does indeed equal 11. So 11 weapons that don't need to have this.

It's kind of odd to bring up the "hundreds of weapons" point in a game that has struggled non stop with Meta Weapons. I'm not entirely sure what the point was meant to be there but there doesn't seem to be a relevant one. What is relevant is an attempt to stop more Meta weapons from being released.

You have hundreds of weapons. Some of them strong enough to deal with any content even they are not meta. Making 11 from hundreds weapons won't change whole balance. Make it mod - sure, but that's just 11 weapons.

9 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

I'm not getting the Dante example here? If Caliban has an option to make enemies more vulnerable to statuses, that makes them equals, not one stronger than another. If you put this status on Weapons that any Warframe can use, these 2 Frames become weaker compared to everyone else, not compared to each other. What were you refering to?

Why do you don't read whole sentence. Dante NEEDS SCANS & PAGEFLIGHT. So if you are new Dante or player that hasn't scanned enemy then you don't have its 'status passive'. On other hand Caliban just need to cast abilities. Some are better and some are worse for Tau Status. If you have energy (not hard) then you have 'status vulnerability' on demand. That doesn't make Dante & Caliban equal.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

You have hundreds of weapons. Some of them strong enough to deal with any content even they are not meta. Making 11 from hundreds weapons won't change whole balance. Make it mod - sure, but that's just 11 weapons.

Why do you don't read whole sentence. Dante NEEDS SCANS & PAGEFLIGHT. So if you are new Dante or player that hasn't scanned enemy then you don't have its 'status passive'. On other hand Caliban just need to cast abilities. Some are better and some are worse for Tau Status. If you have energy (not hard) then you have 'status vulnerability' on demand. That doesn't make Dante & Caliban equal.

Yeah the Torid disagrees with that very, very silly first point. If a weapon has a clear advantage over others, it tends to stick out amongst the "hundreds". This point was genuinely dead on arrival. Adding Tau to any one weapon, never mind 11, would only create more imbalance. If you have any reasonable explanation that isn't vague as hell as to why that isn't true, I'll gladly hear it.

They are equal, yes. Whole sentences are indeed being read. You're just trying to misrepresent Dante in order to hold onto having a point and I'm choosing to ignore it. Or if you prefer we can go into how Dante Innately scans enemies?

[quxier]

22 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Yeah the Torid disagrees with that very, very silly first point. If a weapon has a clear advantage over others, it tends to stick out amongst the "hundreds".

They could stand out from hundreds but it doesn't mean that other weapons would be unusable.

https://www.warframe.com/2023stats

Torid is 13th.

24 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

They are equal, yes. Whole sentences are indeed being read. You're just trying to misrepresent Dante in order to hold onto having a point and I'm choosing to ignore it. Or if you prefer we can go into how Dante Innately scans enemies?

I don't know what to answer. I showed the facts (not like talk about weapons with had some subjectivity) and you just refused.

[dwqrf]

il y a 28 minutes, (PSN)MYKK678 a dit :

 Adding Tau to any one weapon, never mind 11, would only create more imbalance. If you have any reasonable explanation that isn't vague as hell as to why that isn't true, I'll gladly hear it.

The difference I explained to you here above is the reason why adding Tau damage & Status to weapon wouldn't be imbalanced.

[DrivaMain]

At the very least, Venato held by caliban should add +100% Tau damage to the weapon as a signature ability. 

[quxier]

2 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

14 hours ago, quxier said:

They could stand out from hundreds but it doesn't mean that other weapons would be unusable.

https://www.warframe.com/2023stats

Torid is 13th.

I don't know what to answer. I showed the facts (not like talk about weapons with had some subjectivity) and you just refused.

So straight-up admitting that it could make them stand out in a bad way. Great, thanks, my point exactly.

Oh, and yes, I'm about to do the thing you were hoping I wouldn't. See if you want to bring up the Stats Pages then you need to do a proper comparison:

Torid 2023: 13th place

Torid 2022: 128th place

That 115 placement jump didn't happen for no reason. And a jump that extreme certainly didn't happen because a weapon went from unusable to usable. So for the second time, thanks for accidentally helping to prove my point.

Doesn't matter, going from 128 to 13 is not issue. You still have 12 weapons above and ~13 with 1+. It's not like K.nukor & Laetum having ~11% while other have ~6% & 4%.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Updated to account for this suggestion :

Il y a 21 heures, Tiltskillet a dit :

I don't have an opinion on the proposal, but Ceti Lacera, Tatsu, and Paracesis seem like possibilities too.  Probably stretching the idea passed the snapping point, but the Amalgam weapon mods could add a bit of tau damage.

The chance to inflict tau status was removed from the helminth version.  Though according to the ability screen it still does tau damage if that matters to...I don't know, a roleplayer, I guess? :P

 

Il y a 8 heures, Stafelund a dit :

Seems like the OP had the bad luck to have this guy in this thread. I'm pretty sure they aren't warned by the mods for his behavior, everyone was cordial but he had to be arrogant and think that everyone's reply is a personal attack against him.

These things kinda just happen. No matter the thread. Someone always ends up derailing off the thread trying to call out / cancel whoever.

I already warned about how I understood how it could be problematic to add a Tau Damage component to these weapons :

Le 04/10/2024 à 13:24, Fred_Avant_2019 a dit :

It doesn't need to be a huge portion of the damage, but having it present on these weapons (while potentially problematic) would tie in better the whole "oh it's of sentient origin" thing. And unlike void magnetize bubbles, tau status effect is actually desirable.

If it doesn't exceed anywhere between 10-15% of the total base damage, it shouldn't be too much of an issue, since it'll still be diluted in all of the remaining damage types, while still providing that extra funky sentient business.

 

Le 04/10/2024 à 15:34, dwqrf a dit :

Tau status will surely come later into the game on weapons with the addition of the Tau System and the Sentient arc with Murex maps and such. DE already hinted at it.

I'm surprised that to this day we still do not have a dojo room with sentient stuff to research and build, like for other factions. We have all sorts of decorations from them though.

[dwqrf]

il y a 12 minutes, Fred_Avant_2019 a dit :

I'm surprised that to this day we still do not have a dojo room with sentient stuff to research and build, like for other factions. We have all sorts of decorations from them though.

But I'm sure it's still in the works.

At some point, we had the Jovian Concord, which was baseline for new Corpus Ship tileset ; strongly reused later for the Corpus Railjack, which also introduced the Corpus Ice Planet remake tileset.
When they released Railjack Empyrean, we were introduced to the Murex tileset, which came back later in Scarlet Spear event and in the New War ; and to the new Infested Orokin Tower (which reused Lua's tileset), which is yet to be seen.

All those assets take a while to be introduced in the general game, for instance : there is no reasons not to see already a remake of Ice Planets in general ; or the new Infested Orokin Tower tileset in Deimos ; except the lack of time and resources.

Now, the story-telling got somehow delayed after New War by expanding the Zariman tileset (which was introduced in New War) ; expanding again on the Murex tileset with Khal's quests ; and introducing new missions types using somehow old but yet changed and improved tileset, Ascension and Koumei's beach. Sanctum being one of those extremely profound new concepts which was hinted with the Necralisk standing, and already had somehow a defined style with the golden coins design.

Warframe 1999 being the lead project now, bouncing back on Sanctum assets, its going to be somehow in its own world, but will still bring new technologies and tilesets we may see again later ; as in, we are waiting for On-Lyne Liches, which are speculated to also bring Infested Railjack, being them hopefully a lot of new Infested Ship tileset, which would eventually be the baseline for a long overdue Eris visual remake for example (which will again certainly resued the base of Corpus ship already remade).

After all of that is done ; DE will probably bounce back to use the Corpus Ice Planet to finalize using all the assets already present in game and refreshing the early game's visual ; then also remake Deimos Orokin tileset ; and then will go full on onto the Tau system with not only Murex tileset, but also Tau land tileset, which would be something truly new we can't imagine yet. But I'm sure they already did.

Every little step made to add more content to the game needs to not only be mecanically interesting, from a gameplay perspective, but also artistically relevant, and story-telling logical. Remaking Caliban and introducing the Tau Status allows the devs to have some important feedback over years, about how a new base and moddable element could change the game, influencing the meta ; while limiting it to only one specific character. They have to make sure it's both usefull, and not yet overpowered with the other existing type, so not fall into the endless loop of balancing and reworking, creating unecessary frustration for both for the players and the dev team. Tau Status on Caliban isn't really great, cause he has nothing to synergize with in his own kit ; but it's pushing players to experiment about combining it with other tools and see how that goes (creating important data for the devs) ; but that's thankfully limited due to both needing ability spamming (costing energy and time) and then using weapons. If it was already straight up added onto already existing weapons type, people would go crazy and break the game using Heat+Tau Cyanex for example.

With that feedback of how strong is Tau damage and Tau Status, they will surely find the right percentage of how much of Tau damage you need on a weapon to make it a little bit more interesting, synergizing with its own IPS and Modded element, while not making it straight up overpowered, multiplying its own status chance like crazy.

[Stafelund]

1 hour ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

These things kinda just happen. No matter the thread. Someone always ends up derailing off the thread trying to call out / cancel whoever.

I already warned about how I understood how it could be problematic to add a Tau Damage component to these weapons :

I don't think it would even matter and the guy is clamoring up for nothing. It's not like Tau status/damage is a godlike status effect and damagetype. Right now there there are currently no factions weak to it if I'm not mistaken.