Weapons 2.0 - Overhauling The Boring And Generic Gunplay Of Warframe

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Most ppl arent even interested about cc, it was said by many already "better to kill than to stun enemy".

Uh huh, except when they don't die in half a second to the soma (i.e. last ~5 waves or so of T3 defense)

 

Complaining would be taken to higher lvl with for example "grakata have best altfire yet terrible stats buff it cause its useless now" or "buff soma altfire to match its primary dps, if something requires rank 999 it should be best". Conclussion of this is even more unbalanced system and more you will add to it the more unbalanced it will become, but with different alt fire on each weapon stats can be taken to same lvl and weapons will still feel different(yes they feel different now).

The weapons might feel different, but really they aren't They're the same gun with slightly altered stats.

 

 

It does to a point, if you want grineer assault rifle with underbarrel shotgun its fine, if you add explosive module to ballistica bolts then you can explode them with alt fire and thats also fine, but like in ds3 ive played on coop for pretty long time never seen anyone using tesla or plasma sniper everyone used bullet one, same thing with machine guns yet there were some oldschool fans who made their pulse rifles even though they were inferior. Variety wasnt even existent, it was all about same thing, find best working combination and use it. Even when most guns were instagibbing all enemies. Nothing can be done about it.

...which is exactly what you're purposing, a Dead space 3 system. People find the best combo, and use it while ignoring everything else.

 

As for the underbarrel shotgun is basically combining two weapon together, and calling it "unique", even though it's just having 3 guns instead of 2.

 

Unique in this case is giving it an ability, not a simply slapping an attachment on another gun and calling it good.

 

OP ideas are nowhere near ready and probably will never be implemented due to flaws in such sytem.

The ideas aren't meant as "these guns should have these alt fires (and nothing else)" it's more "here are some ideas that I can think of to make weapons more unique". But yeah, overall they can use work, just like every idea everywhere.

[Luminati07]

No point in arguing if even when you are told that they work differently and given examples you still insist they work exactly the same.

Like the Arcane One said, some minor stat changes =/= working differently.

 

At their very core, they are the exact same guns with a different skin.

You point, you shoot some bullets.

 

Without some minor stat changes, where would these weapon be?

If all the machine guns had the exact same stats, where would they be?

 

Currently, the "new" weapons are a new skin, and DE shuffling around a few stat values.

 

One might be a precision AR, one might be a spray and pray SMG, but, that's not variety. That's not unique.

 

If you make ak74 frame for m16 it will still be m16 that looks like ak74.

I said it before, if you give every gun same stats you will end with 11-12 different guns if you add alt fire to that you will probably have over 100 out of which 15-24 will be worth using and even then if someone like machine guns but that particular configuration doesnt fit them(like soma to me) theyre screwed completely.

 

If you however keep current weapons stats you will still have suppresive fire lmg like gorgon and supra, precise AR like braton, smg like grakata, something like soma, pinpoint accurate AR dera and so on. 

 

Even tribes had different types on machine guns and spinfusors yet they all used same principles.

Still not sure why you're using real-life weaponry as examples. I  get the comparison, but you're comparing life, which has rules and boundaries, to a video game about space ninjas. 

This is a video game, DE has no boundaries to their imagination. They're just not being creative at all.

 

It seems like you're taking KvotheTheArcane1 literally when he said "give them the same stats".

 

 

I said it before, if you give every gun same stats you will end with 11-12 different guns if you add alt fire to that you will probably have over 100 out of which 15-24 will be worth using and even then if someone like machine guns but that particular configuration doesnt fit them(like soma to me) theyre screwed completely. 

 

I think this like is kind of hilarious

"you will probably have over 100 out of which 15-24 are worth using"

 

What do we have right now?

124 guns with 15-24 that are worth using. Probably less than 15-24.

 

You're acting like alternate fires would reduce the variety in the game.

 

 

 

If you however keep current weapons stats you will still have suppresive fire lmg like gorgon and supra, precise AR like braton, smg like grakata, something like soma, pinpoint accurate AR dera and so on. 

 

Even tribes had different types on machine guns and spinfusors yet they all used same principles.

 

 

"Suppressive fire" "precise AR" "SMG" 

 

In all honesty, these mean nothing in Warframe.

The AI is as dumb as rocks. They do nothing but walk at you.

 

I'm not 'suppressing' them with my Gorgon, I'm slaughtering them.

 

And Tribes: Ascend was known for having some of the most boring automatic weapons in FPS.

[DHKany]

Dead Space alt fire is that you?

 

Not saying the ideas are bad, quite the opposite, they sound quite fun.

[Luminati07]

Dead Space alt fire is that you?

 

Not saying the ideas are bad, quite the opposite, they sound quite fun.

I've only played Dead Space 1. And that was so long ago I can't even remember if it had alt fire. :D

My inspiration was Unreal Tournament. 

[DHKany]

I've only played Dead Space 1. And that was so long ago I can't even remember if it had alt fire. :D

My inspiration was Unreal Tournament. 

fair enough, just that Dead Space does have quite the awesome sauce Alt Fires (Line Gun Mines being my faves). 

[taiiat]

fair enough, just that Dead Space does have quite the awesome sauce Alt Fires (Line Gun Mines being my faves). 

pssh, i rarely used that. the Line Gun was awesome enough, i thought :D

why place a mine when i can just fire this beam of 23598235962356 dmg that cuts off everythings' limbs, all at once? haha.

 

 

 

In all honesty, these mean nothing in Warframe.

The AI is as dumb as rocks. They do nothing but walk at you.

 

I'm not 'suppressing' them with my Gorgon, I'm slaughtering them.

this is very true. 

in an FPS, differences like that could certainly be great for adding a good level of variety to weapons, so players may pick their preference.

 

but in Warframe, all of the weapons deal damage to enemies, and this Machine Gun example - basically, they all boil down to 'DPS against an enemy or a group of enemies'. that's kind've the end of what a player will really go for most of the time.

 

in a PvE game, weapons need to be more unique in order to actually stand out. it just sort've comes with the territory. in Warframe, two weapons such as Grakata and Soma - which are pretty similar weapon types, basically, you just use Soma because it's better in every single way. 

they do look different, but ultimately are the same gun, one is just simply better. 

Supra and Gorgon, are also effectively the same gun, except they have different damage spreads(but that doesn't change the feel while you're using it), and that Supra has traveling projectiles. those traveling projectiles are nice and all, but for most people, they wouldn't even consider Supra(most people prefer Hitscan weapons for some reason), unless the damage per bullet was a lot higher than the Gorgon.

[qqchurch]

And Tribes: Ascend was known for having some of the most boring automatic weapons in FPS.

I can attest to that. Was bummed out that a game that was formerly focused on projectile explosives with only 2 hitscan guns (chaingun and beam-sniper thing) suddenly had these all these 'modern' weapons that pretty much overshadowed the old weapons in damage as long as you had low ping and decent aiming. Kinda sucked even more that the only point of those guns were to deal damage, no utility whatsoever. And the 'upgrades' of the weapons are pretty much stat variations from the older ones, pretty much blatant padding on the game's 'content'...

 

...kind of like what happening now. *shrugs*

 

I'd love to see utility functions on weapons, to be honest. But then, based on track record, those would just be delegated to mod cards, which by now would have little or no space at all, especially if it doesn't contribute to DPS. 

[Luminati07]

I'd love to see utility functions on weapons, to be honest. But then, based on track record, those would just be delegated to mod cards, which by now would have little or no space at all, especially if it doesn't contribute to DPS. 

The entire idea behind this concept is to NOT have them just slapped on some mod cards.

Though, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if DE did that. -.-

 

Wow. It's really sad that I think that way about DE. That I wouldn't be surprised if they tied fun gameplay with weapon mods. :/

[TenkoTenko]

I'm really all for the bow changes in particular, bows sound like they really need it. The most fun I can have with my Dread at the moment is a Thunderbolt build(which I'm actually enjoying).

 

As for melee weapon attacks, yeah it's been suggested a while back though more ideas are always good

[TenkoTenko]

Embolist​

Acid Grenadier

 

Instead of spraying acid in front of you, the gun forms one magazine worth of acid into a ball.

 

When fired, this ball will be lobbed in an arc. When it hits a solid surface, it will stick for several seconds then explode for massive damage that disintegrates armour and shields.

 

Uses an entire magazine. 30 second cooldown.

Ehh about this. The Embolist has a magazine size of 100. I suggest instead using all ammunition in magazine up to a maximum of 33%, with increasing damage the closer the amount of ammunition expended is to 33% of the magazine size. I'd also suggest to leave shields alone, but keep the corrosive effect while dealing heavy Toxin damage.

[Luminati07]

Ehh about this. The Embolist has a magazine size of 100. I suggest instead using all ammunition in magazine up to a maximum of 33%, with increasing damage the closer the amount of ammunition expended is to 33% of the magazine size. I'd also suggest to leave shields alone, but keep the corrosive effect while dealing heavy Toxin damage.

Yeah, a lot of the ideas in my OP need refining. They weren't really intented as concrete ideas, more as a general idea of how the weapons can be made interesting, rather than generic.

[TenkoTenko]

Yeah, a lot of the ideas in my OP need refining. They weren't really intented as concrete ideas, more as a general idea of how the weapons can be made interesting, rather than generic.

Well an acid grenade sounds like a fantastic idea imo. A ranged bomb ability that spreads armour corrosion and large damage will make me Forma my Embolist a 5th time =)

 

I got some really old unpolished ideas in the melee-weapon thread that I linked as well, maybe you'd like to look at them if you got time.

[Luminati07]

Well an acid grenade sounds like a fantastic idea imo. A ranged bomb ability that spreads armour corrosion and large damage will make me Forma my Embolist a 5th time =)

 

I got some really old unpolished ideas in the melee-weapon thread that I linked as well, maybe you'd like to look at them if you got time.

Yeah, I'll give that thread a read soon and let you know what I think :)

[Cerebrum123]

I admit I didn't read through the whole thread, but I need to ask this. How would this work as far as controls?For certain reasons I need to use an xbox360 pad to play, and I am already limited on what I can do. Hopefully they will take a closer look at the controller players, because of the fact that PS4 users are now getting the game. 

[Rajko]

I re-read, and honestly can't offer any real criticism or suggestions.  I like the idea of alternate modes of fire.  I like that DE said they are working on it.  I like many of the OP suggestions.  But the field is wide open, so bring it on.

 

Take my generic +1.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I re-read, and honestly can't offer any real criticism or suggestions.  I like the idea of alternate modes of fire.  I like that DE said they are working on it.  I like many of the OP suggestions.  But the field is wide open, so bring it on.

 

Take my generic +1.

Eh, DE said they're working on different fire modes, and haven't elaborated, so lets hope it's a real alt fire, not a generic "auto/Burst/Semi auto" switch.

[Rajko]

Eh, DE said they're working on different fire modes, and haven't elaborated, so lets hope it's a real alt fire, not a generic "auto/Burst/Semi auto" switch.

For sure.  Until they release more details, there isn't a lot to say.  I'll be over there struggling to get the last rank on my serration and jam it onto my Gorgon.

 

A simple toggle for auto/burst/semi auto wouldn't really contribute a heck of a lot, though, and would, at least to me, sort of wreck the Hind and Co's unique appeal. 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

For sure.  Until they release more details, there isn't a lot to say.  I'll be over there struggling to get the last rank on my serration and jam it onto my Gorgon.

 

A simple toggle for auto/burst/semi auto wouldn't really contribute a heck of a lot, though, and would, at least to me, sort of wreck the Hind and Co's unique appeal. 

Yeah, I hope it's some honest unique ways to use guns (i.e. not just trigger changes.)

 

Hopefully it'll be a breath of life in the gunplay of WF, I mean, if burst/semi/auto or a basic rocket launcher/flamethrower is the most unique WF gets, almost anything would be great.

[Luminati07]

Yeah, I hope it's some honest unique ways to use guns (i.e. not just trigger changes.)

 

Hopefully it'll be a breath of life in the gunplay of WF, I mean, if burst/semi/auto or a basic rocket launcher/flamethrower is the most unique WF gets, almost anything would be great.

Ugh, I wouldn't hold my breath....

10 Plat says it's just semi/single/auto fire modes. :P

 

Christ, if they gave the Lanka a ricochet effect, even that would be miles ahead of anything in the game. (Which is also extremely sad)

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Ugh, I wouldn't hold my breath....

10 Plat says it's just semi/single/auto fire modes. :P

 

Christ, if they gave the Lanka a ricochet effect, even that would be miles ahead of anything in the game. (Which is also extremely sad)

Yeah, they're just scratching the surface of what they could do. If they're gonna force players to grind over and over on pure RNG, the least they could do is make some of the weapons more interesting than CoD gunplay.

 

Which is also sad. CoD has roughly the same gunplay feel as WF imo.

[LascarCapable]

I really dislike the smart bullet function in the vasto. I want to aim with them, so I don't want to got an autoaim function on it.

[taiiat]

I really dislike the smart bullet function in the vasto. I want to aim with them, so I don't want to got an autoaim function on it.

if that's true, that explains why aiming my Vasto can be a bit of a chore. >.>

 

Aim assistance and Autoaim can go f*ck itself. let me aim my damn gun.

Edited December 11, 2013 by taiiat

[Rajko]

if that's true, that explains why aiming my Vasto can be a bit of a chore. >.>

 

Aim assistance and Autoaim can go f*ck itself. let me aim my damn gun.

He means the suggestion in the OP for the vasto to have an alt fire that converts an entire magazine into smart bullets.

[taiiat]

He means the suggestion in the OP for the vasto to have an alt fire that converts an entire magazine into smart bullets.

oh! good. must be just me firing a little too fast. :p

 

gotta remember to take precision shots with my Magnum.

[Rajko]

oh! good. must be just me firing a little too fast. :p

 

gotta remember to take precision shots with my Magnum.

I've noticed that too, the Vasto is very accurate, but takes a while to settle down from it's kickback before you can fire again with perfect accuracy.  A touch longer than you'd expect.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Rajko