De, Would You Finally Remove The Slash Proc From Enemies Please?

[Genoscythe]

Really, it is probably my number one death reason, since it got introduced (before it was getting stunlocked by 3 shield lancers and then getting shot by 5 napalms)

 

It really annoys the hell out of me when im at 100% shields, some corpus or grineer grunt scratches me, and I die.

Same goes for stalkers bow which deals about 200 health damage per second.

 

And how the hell can Warframes even bleed?

 

If you want to bring challenge in this game then give us enemies that can take more than 2 hits and do some serious damage, and no, I mean not knocking us down and shooting us then, I mean direct damage.

[immolator1001]

I wouldn't say remove, but definitely reduce. Against infested there is rarely a problem but when you are surrounded by grineer or corpus they are guaranteed a slash proc just by sheer volume of them. Or you could make health drops more plentiful.

[Makya]

And how the hell can Warframes even bleed?

A Warframe is a suit of protective nano armor used to enhance the operator, the suits alone do not have any of the trade marked abilities, those are connected with the operators if they wear the suit or not.

[taiiat]

I mean direct damage.

we have that already, enemies that kill us with a single bullet once you traverse far enough. 

 

that's not difficulty, all that happened was you died, it was too fast to get really invested in the situation.

[Riccoshot]

But when this (Slash proc) applied mobs it's okay, right?

 

Actually i have no problem with this and i didn't die even a single time cause of this.

And on the "challenging mobs"... there's no actual anything challenging with current brainless mobs (Invasions clearly showing this), besides OP one-shot damage on higher levels. And OP damage is not a way of high-level content too.

 

I would say DE needs to create few levels of threat & behaviours - the further your progress the differently mobs react & behave and dealing damage. 

[BRad_Skirata]

instead of removing or nerfing it, just make it so it doesn't affect you if shields are 50+

[Genoscythe]

A Warframe is a suit of protective nano armor used to enhance the operator, the suits alone do not have any of the trade marked abilities, those are connected with the operators if they wear the suit or not.

 

Where did you get this information?

 

 

I wouldn't say remove, but definitely reduce. Against infested there is rarely a problem but when you are surrounded by grineer or corpus they are guaranteed a slash proc just by sheer volume of them. Or you could make health drops more plentiful.

 

Would be nice if you could do anything against it, at the moment we just have to watch our tenno die, maybe an action for closing the "wound", where you have to stop for 2 seconds and heal yourself would be fine. Same could go for fire damage, maybe rolling could get it off. The other problem are hitscan weapons of enemies.

 

 

 

instead of removing or nerfing it, just make it so it doesn't affect you if shields are 50+

 

This is quite a nice Idea, but I would raise the limit a bit, maybe 50% of your warframes shields, so it stays dynamic and fair.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Genoscythe

[Makya]

Where did you get this information?

Dark Sector.

[Genoscythe]

Dark Sector.

 

This is Warframe, we dont know exactly how much it is related to dark sector. lets wait for DE to clarify that before we make any assumptions.

[BRad_Skirata]

This is quite a nice Idea, but I would raise the limit a bit, maybe 50% of your warframes shields, so it stays dynamic and fair.

but when you take someone with 1000 shields, the 500 left supposedly is weaker than the previous 500? it might need a more flexible percentage that scales appropriately. Example: start off with 50shlds being the threshold for 200shlds, then for every additional 100shlds that threshold increases by x% of the original threshold?

Edited January 19, 2014 by BRad_Skirata

[Makya]

This is Warframe, we dont know exactly how much it is related to dark sector. lets wait for DE to clarify that before we make any assumptions.

Then I ask this, seeing as they have genders(DE said so), they are organics. What reason would you offer that they couldn't bleed?

[EganMC]

This is Warframe, we dont know exactly how much it is related to dark sector. lets wait for DE to clarify that before we make any assumptions.

Hayden Tenno was the first Tenno.

This was confirmed by DE.

Most, if any assumptions on the relevance of certain connections are usually worth considering.

[Makya]

Side Note, I can't wait until they give Infested Toxic ranged weaponry, oh the tears.

[DAFIRE]

But when this (Slash proc) applied mobs it's okay, right?

 

Actually i have no problem with this and i didn't die even a single time cause of this.

And on the "challenging mobs"... there's no actual anything challenging with current brainless mobs (Invasions clearly showing this), besides OP one-shot damage on higher levels. And OP damage is not a way of high-level content too.

 

I would say DE needs to create few levels of threat & behaviours - the further your progress the differently mobs react & behave and dealing damage.

Get hype,there's A MASSIVE AI overhaul going on,

Source: design council

[Psroij]

DAFIRE, on 19 Jan 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

Get hype,there's A MASSIVE AI overhaul going on,

Source: design council

Getting hyped is about the worst thing people can do. If it does not deliver, or under delivers —as hyped things most often do— it will just make people more angry. Further, until we actually see some results of this "MASSIVE AI overhaul" in action there is nothing to be tentatively excited, much less hyped, about. Further still, even if DE overhauls the AI, and makes it truly impressive, it does not mean they will fix the absurd bleed proc situation, or the other many issues with Damage 2.0 as those problems have nothing to do with the AI; in fact, those problems could be exacerbated by a redone AI that appears to have better decision making trees that create a more challenging experience.

 

Finally, if DE has said they are doing something then the correct response is a, "Yeah, I'll wait until I see it." DE has said they are working on lots of things, or addressing many player concerns, and have managed to under deliver on pretty much all of them.

[BRad_Skirata]

is this a derailing competition? this thread is for bleeding discussion...

[Taranis49]

Where did you get this information?

 

In fairness, it's kinda echoed in Warframe's (sparse) background info too: Arid Fear victory entry. Warframes are basically pegged as just being lightning rods and conduits for the Tenno using it.

 

Regardless, on the actual thread topic, I'd be happy if bleed procs simply didn't work through shields. Some enemies are still broken because of the Bleed proc nonsense, e.g. level 20+ Eviscerators, if just one procs a single bleed, I'm looking at eating a tad over 500 health damage; I tend to run beefier frames so yeah, it's survivable, but for squishier ones it's a death sentence.

 

And the hilarity is that's one that was supposedly "fixed", hint, simply reducing the probability it'll occur isn't an actual fix.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Taranis49

[Valiant]

Allow us to purchase bandages so we can tend to our bleeding injuries. 

 

Beans too. We need beans. 

Edited January 19, 2014 by Naith

[BadAimbot]

Enemies should drop Health orbs. I'm still baffled it hasn't happened yet.

[Divinehero]

the better question is why can corpus cause bleed lasers would cauterize the wound as such no bleeding

[Eliard]

It's only fair that enemies can proc bleed on us if we can proc it on them, isn't it?

 

(I deal with it by mashing my hotkey for medium team health restore if each bleed tick is an uncomfortably high amount of damage.)

 

Enemies should drop Health orbs. I'm still baffled it hasn't happened yet.

 

I think the idea behind health orbs being relatively rare is to encourage use of cover and tactical retreat - after all, we do have regenerating shields, which is kind of an infinite "health" pool if you play it right.

 

the better question is why can corpus cause bleed lasers would cauterize the wound as such no bleeding

 

I basically asked this about the Flux in DC and was told "Our Lasers Are Different". xd

Edited January 20, 2014 by Eliard

[Loswaith]

But when this (Slash proc) applied mobs it's okay, right?

....

Unfortunatly the bleed proc on enemies is about useless, because the bleed on them is miniscule and you dont want to let them (or they just simply dont) live for the bleed to kill them.

 

I dont mind having bleed but having it inflict through a shield thats about deflecting the kinetic energy, how exactly is it getting to the flesshy bits to cause bleeding in the first place.  Against melee its not so bad (you can mostly avoid them with smart playing) as that can simply be explained as shields are bad at deflecting the slower speed (lower kinetic) attacks.

[SnaleKing]

It's only fair that enemies can proc bleed on us if we can proc it on them, isn't it?

 

(I deal with it by mashing my hotkey for medium team health restore if each bleed tick is an uncomfortably high amount of damage.)

 

 

I think the idea behind health orbs being relatively rare is to encourage use of cover and tactical retreat - after all, we do have regenerating shields, which is kind of an infinite "health" pool if you play it right.

 

 

I basically asked this about the Flux in DC and was told "Our Lasers Are Different". xd

 

1. Yes. Agree on this.

 

2. "Relatively rare" meaning "sometimes from boxes, maybe" Cover and retreat doesn't work when you have to step out sooner or later. Facing 20 or so grineer dumping hitscan bullets into you, bleed happens sooner or later. And a bleed from an eviscerator is a death sentence.

 

Also, the entire reason that bleed procs are so irritating is that our regenerating shields you referred to are useless. Even a high health or armour doesn't help, since it only delays the bleed procs wearing you down. Without rejuvenation, trin or oberon, you're mostly out of luck.

 

Bleed procs are the reason I don't play against grineer solo. I hate wasting a revive because I got surprised by an eviscerator, killed him, and watched while I lost 100 health per tic.

 

The fact that it's extremely difficult to recover lost health is a huge hit to solo play.

[BadAimbot]

I think the idea behind health orbs being relatively rare is to encourage use of cover and tactical retreat - after all, we do have regenerating shields, which is kind of an infinite "health" pool if you play it right.

 

This is actually a bad thing. The fact that Shields regenerate means that in content where the enemy can't pierce through the Shields we are invincible, and when they can actually break through it it becomes very difficult very fast because HP recovery is so scarce. If anything we should be taking more damage to our Health and have more ways to recover it, so we don't move between 'hey we can't die' and 'oh god why am I bleeding so much'.

[shut]

This is Warframe, we dont know exactly how much it is related to dark sector. lets wait for DE to clarify that before we make any assumptions.

The devs confirmed that Dark Sector is part of WF's lore a while back in a livestream or something. They just specified that it was very unrelated.

 

The devs also confirmed that Tenno are human(oid)s in suits during the great "Do Tenno have eyes?" discussion of the Gradivus Dilemma. They were pretty "are-you-guys-seriously-asking-this-question" about it.

 

 

OT: I don't mind Slash staying, but it definitely shouldn't be hitting through shields. At all. That's kinda what shields are for in the first place, so you don't bleed underneath.

The devs have gone the "Oh, we'll balance it by reducing enemy proc chance" route, but honestly, that's no way to balance it. If a level 15 Eviscerator is one-hitting my maxed-out Excalibur due to a bleed proc, then it's not balanced just because it was "unlikely to happen". I died from full health in a single hit from a mid-leveled enemy. That should not happen, period.

 

Bleed procs have devastating effects and, unlike usual health damage, they're nearly impossible to avoid. You can avoid losing health the normal way by letting your shields recover before fighting enemies, but there is nothing that a typical Frame can do to avoid bleed procs, except to pray that it doesn't happen. Or, if you're lucky enough to have a Frame with a damage-negating ability, use that ability 24/7.

No, increasing Health drop rates is not a solution. It doesn't solve the problem (you can still get one-shotted by a damn level 15 eviscerator; you can't solve RNG with more RNG), and it makes losing health the normal way (shield = 0) lose its "I'm in danger" factor.

 

 

Putting it bluntly: you shouldn't bleed unless you have 0 shields. Period.