Qynchou Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Every single player has a cookie cutter build. 95% of the mods are purely +damage or some sort of other mandatory stat. Nobody has to make choices, there are no builds, there isnt anything. On mod 1.0 you could stack specific stats like puncture/health/energy/etc, you had to CHOOSE what you want to pick and HOW you want to play. Not necessarily a copy of 1.0, but an improved version of it. Let me customize, let me make choices, be unique, let me PICK a playstyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I doubt we'll ever see them come back. As nice as it was to have a bit more freedom as to how you could build, there were some problems with it, most notably for new players: 1. It was needlessly complex 2. It wasn't really explained Learning how to use the system was little more than trial-and-error, and it could sometimes result in you doing things you didn't want to do. Like when the transmute/fusion system came out, I had no idea what it did, so I clicked a bunch of things and whoops there goes my only Rhino Roar (that was back before they added the safeguards). The prior tree would be okay IF it was explained to players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxbomb Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 (edited) I wasn't around for closed beta, but I do know that it definitely had it's flaws with balancing. That being said though, it seemed pretty solid otherwise from what I've heard about it, and even somewhat incorporated the current mod system into it. I honestly wouldn't mind if DE took a second crack at it. Edited January 19, 2014 by Paradoxbomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makya Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Wouldn't it end up like most games with skill trees? 'One best build' would just have a different appearance. Remember, cookie cutter is a choice not something that only happens from the lack of choice. Take PoE for example which will always have a more advanced skill tree compared to Warframe, there are specialized builds for any type of character you want to use. So.. Can you tell me what would be different other than people asking for builds rather than mod choice advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDeN153 Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 I haven't been around when that was around, I've seen videos including it and it seems like the transition between either system was dramatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverslices Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 Every single player has a cookie cutter build. 95% of the mods are purely +damage or some sort of other mandatory stat. Nobody has to make choices, there are no builds, there isnt anything. Every single player had the same build eh? I have 4 different builds for my mag, two for my valkyr, 3 for my frost, 2 for my nekros, 2 for my volt.... many more Saying that everyone has the same build is the dumbest thing i have heard on this forum, no offense. Let me customize, let me make choices, be unique, let me PICK a playstyle. Modules (Mods) are cards that can be equipped to warframes, weapons, and sentinelsto enhance damage, power, survivability, speed, precepts, and utility. Mods can grant Passive Powers, Active Powers, Sentinel Precepts, and Utilities. Mods can be changed between items. There are actually 276 mods existing in the game. (Wiki) My Mag Prime has 1050 shields because i like to be a light tank and dish out high damage. But i can also throw on duration mods and make her shield polorize last forever. Perfect example of choosing the right build for the right time. I can also mod my Oberon for pure damage or for tank or for healing. That is the perfect example of choosing your playstyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchwarzeRitter Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Any system with multiple options will always have a "best"/optimal selection. Changing the current mod system to a skill tree wont change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamSalva Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) Every single player had the same build eh? I have 4 different builds for my mag, two for my valkyr, 3 for my frost, 2 for my nekros, 2 for my volt.... many more Saying that everyone has the same build is the dumbest thing i have heard on this forum, no offense. Modules (Mods) are cards that can be equipped to warframes, weapons, and sentinelsto enhance damage, power, survivability, speed, precepts, and utility. Mods can grant Passive Powers, Active Powers, Sentinel Precepts, and Utilities. Mods can be changed between items. There are actually 276 mods existing in the game. (Wiki) My Mag Prime has 1050 shields because i like to be a light tank and dish out high damage. But i can also throw on duration mods and make her shield polorize last forever. Perfect example of choosing the right build for the right time. I can also mod my Oberon for pure damage or for tank or for healing. That is the perfect example of choosing your playstyle. If you allready quote the Wiki for how many mods are in the game.. maybe read about Shield Polarize again.. Duration does nothing, exactly nothing for this skill. Edited January 20, 2014 by IamSalva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makya Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 If you allready quote the Wiki for how many mods are in the game.. maybe read about Shield Polarize again.. Duration does nothing, exactly nothing for this skill. I think they mixed up Shield Polarize and Bullet Attractor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamSalva Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I think they mixed up Shield Polarize and Bullet Attractor. Why would you want to have a Bullet Attractor last forever? A Target with attractor on should go down fast... no need to have it going very long at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makya Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) Why would you want to have a Bullet Attractor last forever? A Target with attractor on should go down fast... no need to have it going very long at all Not sure, I mix mine with range to have it suck up a group of enemy's fire for a few ticks after it slap it on the heavy. Edited January 20, 2014 by Makya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CM-Syein Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Each frames abilities are center around range, duration, and strength and each frame usually build around 2 of the 3 to pick from. Trinity is likely to be range and duration Valkyr is strength and duration Rhino is strength and range and so on etc. So yes, we only have 3 set up to pick from. However minus stats such as power efficiency, or minus range, minus duration etc are what make the choices bigger. Regardless, players tend to able of copy other's build. So every build kinda similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qynchou Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Every single player had the same build eh? I have 4 different builds for my mag, two for my valkyr, 3 for my frost, 2 for my nekros, 2 for my volt.... many more Saying that everyone has the same build is the dumbest thing i have heard on this forum, no offense. Modules (Mods) are cards that can be equipped to warframes, weapons, and sentinelsto enhance damage, power, survivability, speed, precepts, and utility. Mods can grant Passive Powers, Active Powers, Sentinel Precepts, and Utilities. Mods can be changed between items. There are actually 276 mods existing in the game. (Wiki) My Mag Prime has 1050 shields because i like to be a light tank and dish out high damage. But i can also throw on duration mods and make her shield polorize last forever. Perfect example of choosing the right build for the right time. I can also mod my Oberon for pure damage or for tank or for healing. That is the perfect example of choosing your playstyle. Previously you had 12 mod slots, now you have 34(?). You can always have 1k+ shields AND have duration/damage/sprint mods on. Not even talking about serration/HC/hornet strike mods that are completely pointless (I have them maxed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamSalva Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Previously you had 12 mod slots, now you have 34(?). You can always have 1k+ shields AND have duration/damage/sprint mods on. Not even talking about serration/HC/hornet strike mods that are completely pointless (I have them maxed). If it would be only the damage mods... its multishot too and most of the time you just slap on the elements for the damage and not because you need the proc. For some weapons the "crit mods" are basicly jsut damage mods too. Just using a punch through mod like Seeker/Seeking Force lowers your overall damage by really much, so you better have a good reason to slap this on instead of another +90% dmg Elemental Mod... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LascarCapable Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) You won't have choice with a skill tree anyway, because some builds will be better than others. Edited January 20, 2014 by Einde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) A few reasons I have to say no to this: -In the skill trees when I wanted to get to the damage nodes I was forced to go through reload speed or fire-rate or some other nodes that took away levels just to be able to add a bit more damage. That isn't choice when you are forced to go through mandatory nodes in order to get what you want. -The only thing really worth while to get in the tree system before was the mod slots. That was the only 'build': which one would get me to the mod slots the fastest? Nearly everyone was using the same exact paths through the tree so there were still the 'cookie cutter' builds. -If you made a mistake and mis-clicked a node? Oh well, there goes a permanent node that you could never get back. In the current system you can swap mods around freely and without penalty meaning that any 'mistake' you made can be corrected before the next mission. In what way would it be better? You would still have the same 'cookie-cutter' builds. You would have even more limited mod slots. And it wouldn't open up any extra builds at all. And who would really want to be locked into it so that once they build a frame a certain way the only way to change it is to make the frame again. So good luck farming up a second mag prime if you chose the wrong nodes. Edited January 20, 2014 by Tsukinoki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiegraf Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Wouldn't it end up like most games with skill trees? 'One best build' would just have a different appearance. It would be replacing with "One mod set to rule them all" to "One build to rule them all". Besides, skill trees are often permanent in nature whereas the mod system allows you to customize your abilities as needed. In term of game changing features, the mod system is basically the best thing that happened to Warframe since its early days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailCreation Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 The corrupted mods added some variation with this. Ex: My vauban is specced for low energy use and high range. My bastille can cover a massive area and I can spam it. Effectively I can cover a whole defense map in some cases. I've seen others spec for power. The bastille covers less range, but can hold far more units and costs more power. Another example is that most frames I will go with vigor. Some frames though I'll want more health or shields and will use an additional mod to augment that farther. Options are there, but with the way mods work that old skill tree sounds complex for the sake of it and only creates the illusion of choice. There's always going to be min/max builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyunsai Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Euh no... I've got SEVERAL builds for frames and weapons I use depending of the faction and the mission. I like this system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starender Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 there's a lot of games with skill trees, and it will be the same result as it is now: few builds are OP, some are OK, and a lot are crap i think we need more acrobatic moves/fix, more powers of choice for frames, bigger maps, balanced weps, a storyline, cinematics, arts works ingame, music... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocimad Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 if they do it right this sounds like a nice add on to the game they could probably do something like skill trees for the warframes themselves and leave the mod slots as they are sorry if this is what they did wasn't around when they had skill trees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sollet Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Smashing the skill tree and introducing the mod card system was one of the best thing that happened to this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPiRALFACToR Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 as someone who played back when skill trees were a thing, please dont bring back skill trees, they were awful and broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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