The Prime Parts Trading Discussion Megathread

[Rathie]

I really cannot understand this choice, a token system would have been the perfect medium in my eyes.

A option that would have pleased a fair amount if done correctly and depending on how you done it others would not have felt cheated. 

 

In my opinion all that grinding and farming feels utterly useless as I could of just spent less than 1/3 of my Masters platinum and achieved what I spent hours working towards in minutes. 

I understand this makes it a lot easier for players that don't have enough time on their hands, but wouldn't a token system do that anyway?

 

I'm not intending to sound like I'm crying but I would just love to know why a well thought out token system wasn't implemented instead of the current option.

[Legion-Shields]

So now 12 year old kids with their parents' credit card can get it.

 

As opposed to before when only people with the free time of a 12 year old kid could get it. And as for Frost Prime "meaning" something, that's all it meant: that you had a lot of free time and a slightly above average boredom threshold. Good for you. I'm impressed.

 

Fact is that complaining about options being available to people in different circumstances is nothing but selfish.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[--MANA--]

whew. i remember that when the trade was released people were asking for prime blueprints to be tradable too and now this? wow.

[Archistopheles]

a slightly above average boredom threshold.

 

Made me choke on my coffee ^

[Monolake]

Primes are completely worthless now, easier to get than anything, and there are people just handing them to everyone for free and no wonder.

I feel like selling Frost Prime and building regular again, he is harder to get now than prime.

Because primes even weren't hard to farm for any veteran to begin with (its the RNG problem of finding the last bit from the cluttered table that was the issue). I was selling 200k+ worth primes every few days (57+ pieces yes, since you could easily get 6-7 per survival run, those Mag and Latron parts lol). When they changed defence so you could see the reward it became even easier and I got my Braton P in a single evening in just few runs (just had to find people who needed the same part and wouldnt quit after 10 waves). I did much more grind for the damned Orokin Cells than for primes themselves. 

 

Now primes are nothing, not a sign of a veteran, not an achievement, not a goal to play for, not a reward. DE totally de-valued them. 

But thats not even the problem, main problem is that they de-valued playing when its much easier to trade. Its a loot-reward driven game, 'Skinner Box' they call it - it doesn't work without rewards.

Imagine if they made achievements tradable "WTS 100% game beaten - only 10 coins!  Trading 100% secrets for 100k kills!" nonsense. 

Edited February 21, 2014 by Monolake

[(PSN)lsu4life86]

If anything I think it's bad for DE. It means less grinding for players thus less play time. I don't see how it hurts us players at all though. 

[thegooseking]

Its a loot-reward driven game, 'Skinner Box' they call it - it doesn't work without rewards.

I admit that you're at least 95% correct that that's what it is.

 

The question is whether or not that's what it should be.

[Archistopheles]

Primes are completely worthless now

 

 

I'm sorry, did trading suddenly make Ember less sexy?

 

Because she looks just as sexy as she did before...

 

 

Now primes are nothing, not (1)a sign of a veteran, (2)not an achievement, (3)not a goal to play for, not a reward. DE totally de-valued them. 

But thats not even the problem, main problem is that they de-valued playing when its much easier to trade. (4)Its a loot-reward driven game, 'Skinner Box' they call it - it doesn't work without rewards.

 

(1) Prime Access

(2) It's still a personal achievement if you..... wait for it... Don't trade for the parts

(3) See (2)

(4) No, you're thinking of Torchlight 2 and Diablo 3. A skinner box is akin to World of Warcraft - Infinite levels and new raid dungeons to force you to spend hours upon hours for the slight chance of an upgrade.

[xoxcloudxox]

Tbh who cares..

[f3llyn]

Frost prime used to mean something.

The same goes with mag, ember, etc.

You had to farm harder missions, sometimes for weeks before you had the parts.  You couldn't even buy them with plat.

It was a sign of accomplishment.

Now that I can trade parts, these things mean nothing.

:(

Can someone change my opinion?  

Just my two cents,

Qudd.

 

Prime stopped mattering when they decided to sell it for money.

 

Besides that anything that can potentially cut down on grind is a good thing. Not seeing a downside.

[Sapphirya]

I see only positives from this, probably because I don't buy into the whole "I earned it by getting lucky at a dice roll so this new system sucks" thing. I did some void runs yesterday, looking for Ember Prime parts, and instead ended up with a Dakra Prime and Orthos Prime part. Popped into the trade chat, now I have two Ember Prime parts and someone else has the parts they need. Win-win! Anything to reduce RNG.

 

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but if you forma a regular Frost twice, isn't it completely identical to the Frost Prime? Other than appearance and that effect on the void death cube things.

[Ourobor]

Let me just start this with the information that I'm a person who feels hurt by the prime trading. If you skim my post, at least take the fact that calling my feeling of hurt an over extended ego/epeen/whatever is not going to go over well because I am so sick of hearing it. I just want to explain in detail why I liked having primes and why it hurts me so people who aren't hurt understand. And also adding in a solution that would make me very happy.

I'm upset about this because to me, prime weapons were not better gear to me, but a symbol that I loved a particular weapon. My Latron Prime is my favorite weapon because I liked the Latron. I don't want to hoard the extra power of it. I just liked that it was pretty and a visual demonstration of my love of that weapon. If primes were just a skin, I'd still have gotten it. The problem is that primes are generally better then the normal versions so there's no particular reason to not get one, even if you're going to use it occasionally. To be clear, I don't want to deprive people of the stats of the prime weapons, I just want to show people that my favorite gun is my favorite gun in a visual way.

A reasonable solution to this is easy. Let me add little baubles/tassels/whatever to my gun/customize the model in some way to differentiate it from stock. But only after I've used it for X hours/got X kills with it. I want my chosen weapon to have personality and style. I want to be able to look at people's favorite weapon and say, "Daaammnn, that guy must really love that <weapon>" and I want people to be able to say that about me. Clearly this can't be a one step thing either. The first customization should come early(lets say once you hit rank 30) so even people who don't have the time to play as much can express themselves. As you get more and more customizations, it should take logarithmically more and more to get so those who play a lot don't max the scale out instantly.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[Archistopheles]

if you forma a regular Frost twice, isn't it completely identical to the Frost Prime? Other than appearance and that effect on the void death cube things.

 

Shield recharge may be a half a second faster, but they are pure cosmetic/mastery point frames.

[mphizto]

what is the motivation to play a game where you can buy everything. there is no challenge

[Tulzscha]

Another thread merged.

[Blowfist]

I've done my fair sharing of moaning about the change to Prime parts. There was possibly better alternatives and it has removed the grind.

 

Yes they might need to add mastery rank restrictions on some weapons and yes they might need to limit the amount of Prime blueprints or Parts that can be traded in a week. Overall though the casual players and the players who have lost all hope by being cursed by the drop rates now have their pieces.

 

We can only complain and go in circles so many times with so many posts. We are all lacking the full picture of what DE's plan is and hopefully within the next few weeks or Months we will be able to look back in hindsight and understand their decisions.

 

There's really nothing else to be said expect maybe all us Veterans who have more credits and spare blueprints and parts then we know what to do with might want to think about helping out others by freely giving them the parts they desperately want.

[direcyphre]

what is the motivation to play a game where you can buy everything. there is no challenge

Yet somehow EA is selling shortcuts in games like Battlefield and Dead Space 3. Same applies to most cash shops if you weren't aware; acquiring new items without having to "work" (a dubious term in a video game) for them.

 

Everyone here is still free to farm up everything themselves, but most people are kidding themselves if their luck of the draw or grinding endlessly have somehow made them more of a l33t veteran. There isn't really a good counterargument against the trading of platinum between players, as it stimulates the economy in a new way. The more platinum that gets in the hands of free players, the better it is for everyone. The more platinum purchased for the sake of that trading, the better it is for DE.

[LukeAura]

Everyone here is still free to farm up everything themselves, but most people are kidding themselves if their luck of the draw or grinding endlessly have somehow made them more of a l33t veteran. There isn't really a good counterargument against the trading of platinum between players, as it stimulates the economy in a new way. The more platinum that gets in the hands of free players, the better it is for everyone. The more platinum purchased for the sake of that trading, the better it is for DE.

 

Well, most people here not in favour of Prime Trading would have rather seen a token system that would mitigate the luck part. Making it so that the grind could be a little more evened out. I don't think actually any one is in favor of leaving rng as it is. 

Primes were always meant to be rare/prestige items for people who put in the effort for them. You couldn't buy your way too them. That was their whole point. If you're saying it's not and people shouldn't feel special for grinding them then there is no point to having prime gear at all. 

If DE really wanted to have them be bought they would have put them up in the market from the very beginning. Read Sheldon's post, their intention looks like prime part for prime part. Not for plat. Which would be a lot better admittedly, I wouldn't bother writing this if it was Weapon piece for Weapon piece only. 

Mods and keys were already a lucrative source of platinum for Free players. Not to mention this is Warframe, not marketFrame. Grinding forever and praying to rng is still an issue, they didn't actually solve that. Avoiding such a problematic core is just ever creeping from F2P to P2W. It may not be now, but if we accept that Prime Trading is a good solution they will continue with this line of fixes that are ultimately unhealthy for the actual game play of warframe. 

The fix for void farming should be made so that people feel like they can grind out for Prime parts, not so players have a way around it. It doesn't solve the actual underlying issue. 

[direcyphre]

Well, most people here not in favour of Prime Trading would have rather seen a token system that would mitigate the luck part. Making it so that the grind could be a little more evened out. I don't think actually any one is in favor of leaving rng as it is. 

Primes were always meant to be rare/prestige items for people who put in the effort for them. You couldn't buy your way too them. That was their whole point. If you're saying it's not and people shouldn't feel special for grinding them then there is no point to having prime gear at all. 

If DE really wanted to have them be bought they would have put them up in the market from the very beginning. Read Sheldon's post, their intention looks like prime part for prime part. Not for plat. Which would be a lot better admittedly, I wouldn't bother writing this if it was Weapon piece for Weapon piece only. 

Mods and keys were already a lucrative source of platinum for Free players. Not to mention this is Warframe, not marketFrame. Grinding forever and praying to rng is still an issue, they didn't actually solve that. Avoiding such a problematic core is just ever creeping from F2P to P2W. It may not be now, but if we accept that Prime Trading is a good solution they will continue with this line of fixes that are ultimately unhealthy for the actual game play of warframe. 

The fix for void farming should be made so that people feel like they can grind out for Prime parts, not so players have a way around it. It doesn't solve the actual underlying issue. 

Yes, some people thought a token system would be a good idea, but then everyone would still have all the things they already wasted time on and haven't finished. Grinding is grinding, where applying a finite number (X Tokens for X prime item) makes it all the simpler. The unfortunate downside would be creating such a system that would be agreeable to everyone present. While everyone can agree they would want it to be 'easier', the degree of difficulty would obviously vary between those who play the game casually, and those who hardcore grind T3 Void. The end result would yield this very same thread of just as many pages whether or not it was too hard for normal people, or too easy to the hardcore. This all above and beyond needing a system that works in the first place. All they needed to do for this system was switch the trade flags on the prime items in question.

 

It was only a mark of prestige for people who wanted to feel better about having done however many hundreds of runs it took to achieve it. However, we're already aware that is why they are butthurt about it. The enjoyment of individuals should obviously only be acquired if every other person ran the void as much as they did...

 

Prime part for prime part was also a nice idea, but the key word there is 'trading'. Nothing in the trading system has the ability to limit what you trade for. All it would do is make it more difficult for people to trade in general, as you would need an equivalent part you need in order to let go of what you have. These days in the real world, we've long since moved to exchanging liquid assets (i.e. currency) in order to make these exchanges easier. The desired result will still be achieved, but without the hassle of having to re-trade elsewhere and everyone gets what they want. I get that it would require other people to acquire prime parts themselves, but it wouldn't get rid of the current surplus if someone ended up with the thousands of bronco prime barrels in existence.

 

Seems they solved the RNG quite well in this particular case, just as it did with trading mods. The 'market' aspect is a part of just about every MMO I'm aware of. The ability to trade items that others don't have is the core that negates the ridiculous RNG aspects involved in loot drops. What people are arguing against would be like removing the auction/market from a game like WoW, and saying everyone has to get their own loot drops by running the same raid instance a thousand times.

[LukeAura]

Seems they solved the RNG quite well in this particular case, just as it did with trading mods. The 'market' aspect is a part of just about every MMO I'm aware of. The ability to trade items that others don't have is the core that negates the ridiculous RNG aspects involved in loot drops. What people are arguing against would be like removing the auction/market from a game like WoW, and saying everyone has to get their own loot drops by running the same raid instance a thousand times.

Just because other MMOs do it doesn't mean it is healthy. 

Everyone should have to get their own loot drops, but they also shouldn't have to feel like they need to resort to trading with others or running the same mission until the ends of time on the slim hope they find what they're looking for. 

It's to say they are treating the symptoms, but not the cause. rng isn't solved by a trade system, only avoided. A token system is a part of the rng system itself, it more directly addresses the issue. 

 

[aPod]

As someone who grinded like mad to get all the prime gear I was very happy to see this change. I'm loaded with prime gear and making quite a large chunk of plat selling parts and prints people need. I do remember how frustrating it was to grind for all the gear and am happy to know that when the next wave of prime loot comes out I will not have to run X Y amount of times for a Z% chance of getting the part I want.

 

I think the system is great.

 

People, if given the choice, would rather get paid less, but more than their peers. Than be paid more overall if everyone got paid the same.

[AZZEL]

I don't like the idea of prime trading. Now everyone gets everything without much effort. This is a bad decision.

[Legion-Shields]

what is the motivation to play a game where you can buy everything. there is no challenge

real life has enough challenges. Video games are supposed to be entertainment; a break from RL.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Legion-Shields

[-VS-AtLasVegas]

I see it all as cheating  - yes cheating.

 

It is completely the same like in GTA:

 

I loved every GTA game and played always the whole story and was kind off addicted by the worlds. And in the end (I am sure everybody does this) I searched the codes for all Cheats and activated ALL weapons and ALL cars and fought against an army of policemen. Oh it's fun of course - but actually thats the way how the game gets worthless. After the point you start to use cheats, it's a question of time...very short time.

 

Getting the access to all equipment in the beginning (and the low price for it is the same as an instant access) will kill every wish to play the game. So go along and buy everything - cheat along: You destroy your own fun, not mine.

 

My opinion is clear: Earn it or forget it. Everything else is worthless to mention - the game has besides the grinding part a fun-potential for maybe ~50h, but it can be so much more.

 

DE, you have the tools - pls fulfill the masterpiece.

[DJ_Redwire]

You destroy your own fun, not mine.

 

My opinion is clear: Earn it or forget it. 

 

Wait so, how am I destroying your fun again? I'm a little confused. 

 

 

So if I didn't get lucky enough earn something the same way you did, I'm effecting the quality of the game for you? I am deeply sorry that playing the game differently than how you do has diminished your enjoyment of it. How thoughtless was I to not think that doing something different than you was going to hurt your feelings. Shame on me.

 

 

...Seriously, what?