Marelok: Fearing The Nerf.

[LazyKnight]

 

Though it does look a bit broken.

Its broken compared to Grinlok, and when DE 'power creeped' a weapon that was just released it is a HORRID precedent to set.

Edited February 27, 2014 by LazyKnight

[DoomFruit]

Well, considering those are meant as one-shot weapons, status procs wont deal much, right?

Corrosive/viral procs on high-level enemies?

 

However, with twice as much of a multishot chance (180% to 90%), the respective status chance becomes separated only by a factor of 6%. 

Hmm, good point. I would say something about 2 multishot mods required on the pistol, but I'm adding hammer shot on the rifle anyway for the status chance. In fact, that just makes the power disparity even worse. I'm starting to regret the 3 Forma I stuck on my Grinlok now...

[Archistopheles]

I'm not happy.

 

Don't talk to me about Mastery level, and I don't mind that it has the cool animation (that I knew it would have), but it completely pissed all over my Seer in every single stat.

 

At least I have my zoom, though. -_-

 

 

Dual Cestra made me mad because the single version is in the market. Grinlok made me mad because it was bland for a Clan Tech weapon. Marelok (love the name, animation is spot on) made me mad because it dropped it's pants, and layed a big steamer on top of my Seer.

 

I'm not interested in discussing my opinions in this post, this is pure feedback.

[Inez]

The seer was intended as a lowbie weapon. New players farm for it in the very first system of the game. And evidently its a lot easier to get then when we all farmed it when it first came out.

The Grinlock is pretty horrible though.

[SevenLetterKWord]

Nope.

No, actually.

It's still irrelevant.

It's irrelevant because the Marelok doesn't compete against the Grinlok.

 

They're not the same type of weapon, so you can equip both at a time, get it?

Primaries. Apples.

Secondaries. Oranges.

 

At least the OP had the good sense to compare the Marelok to the Brakk, which is another secondary.

You can only equip one secondary weapon. Thus, performance primacy is relevant.

 

(Also, "lever action" doesn't mean S#&$. That's just an animation. It's functionally identical to semi-auto.)

_____

I suppose from an "artistic" perspective, you could argue that a primary weapon should "realistically" be more powerful than a secondary weapon of similar design. (Maybe that's why you think lever-action matters.)

 

Of course, attempting to enforce realism in Warframe is futile.

This is a video game we're playing here, not a documentary.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Knaimhe

[Oishii]

No, actually.

It's still irrelevant.

It's irrelevant because the Marelok doesn't compete against the Grinlok.

 

They're not the same type of weapon, so you can equip both at a time, get it?

Primaries. Apples.

Secondaries. Oranges.

 

At least the OP had the good sense to compare the Marelok to the Brakk, which is another secondary.

You can only equip one secondary weapon. Thus, performance primacy is relevant.

 

(Also, "lever action" doesn't mean S#&$. That's just an animation. It's functionally identical to semi-auto.)

_____

I suppose from an "artistic" perspective, you could argue that a primary weapon should "realistically" be more powerful than a secondary weapon of similar design. (Maybe that's why you think lever-action matters.)

 

Of course, attempting to enforce realism in Warframe is futile.

This is a video game we're playing here, not a documentary.

So sawing off the the barrel makes the Grimlock a better weapon? That's dumb even by video game standards.

[NikolaiLev]

Its broken compared to Grinlok, and when DE 'power creeped' a weapon that was just released it is a HORRID precedent to set.

 

Yeah, well, DE has been letting power creep happen for a long time, and few complain about it, sadly.

 

I'm not happy.

 

Don't talk to me about Mastery level, and I don't mind that it has the cool animation (that I knew it would have), but it completely &!$$ed all over my Seer in every single stat.

 

At least I have my zoom, though. -_-

 

 

Dual Cestra made me mad because the single version is in the market. Grinlok made me mad because it was bland for a Clan Tech weapon. Marelok (love the name, animation is spot on) made me mad because it dropped it's pants, and layed a big steamer on top of my Seer.

 

I'm not interested in discussing my opinions in this post, this is pure feedback.

 

Indeed.  Power creep central, here.

 

The seer was intended as a lowbie weapon. New players farm for it in the very first system of the game. And evidently its a lot easier to get then when we all farmed it when it first came out.

The Grinlock is pretty horrible though.

 

Why should it be intended for only new players?  Introducing flat upgrades is just lazy; it reduces player choice and punishes investment in a weapon simply because a player likes it, and encourages players to simply strive for what's most powerful.

 

No, actually.

It's still irrelevant.

It's irrelevant because the Marelok doesn't compete against the Grinlok.

 

They're not the same type of weapon, so you can equip both at a time, get it?

Primaries. Apples.

Secondaries. Oranges.

 

The game has, until now, been balanced for the fact that secondaries are always weaker than primaries.  This seems to be changing, for no real reason.  There's no valid gameplay-related reason why the Marelok should be more powerful than a primary when almost all secondaries have thus far adhered to the model that they are weaker than primaries.

 

This is just power creep for the sake of profit.  Either that or DE really is incompetent at balance design.

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

just swap the stats on the marelok and grinlok, problem solved... i guess

[Ishki88]

Guys, I really want to pump the same AMT of forma into this gun has my Brakk.  But I FEAR an Ak version real soon....it's hard trying to complete my hypothesis when a dual version is coming soon

 

.............screw it

 

I'm going for it

Edited February 27, 2014 by Ishki88

[Archistopheles]

Guys, I really want to pump the same AMT of forma into this gun has my Brakk.  But I FEAR an Ak version real soon....it's hard trying to complete my hypothesis when a dual version is coming soon

 

.............screw it

 

I'm going for it

 

You'll be sorry... Or you won't care when they do release the dual version...

 

It all depends on your character.

[ObviousLee]

DPSframe says it does the same damage per shot as the brakk.

use gottfausts dps calculator, its WAY more accurate.

[SevenLetterKWord]

So sawing off the the barrel makes the Grimlock a better weapon? That's dumb even by video game standards.

Come on, seriously. This can't be your counterargument.

"Oh it doesn't make sense."

Do you want to hear about the other things in Warframe which don't make sense?

Lasers have travel time. Other lasers disappear after a certain distance.

Explosive decompression is for pussies.

Ammo. (Also, the rockets for my Ogris somehow come in itty bitty 20-count boxes.)

Enemy ships (and Jupiter stations) have dedicated Tenno extraction points.

Never have I ever seen an extraction team for any cryopod.

Not to mention, we keep finding cryopods in the exact same Grineer/Corpus-controlled locales.

Life support in open environments. How'd the infested manage to "shut off" an entire planet's life support? (OP pls narf)

Orbs in general. How did I manage to smack the abstract concept of health out of a Grineer footlocker?

Innumerably more things which I don't care to list at the moment.

 

It's not just Warframe.

In basically all FPS games, shotguns fire God's Own Thunder at close range, but then become about as effective as a sneeze at anything beyond p!ss-distance. Especially automatic shotguns.

 

Plus, you can't just say the only difference between the Grinlok and the Marelok is a shorter barrel.

They've obviously got slightly different designs. The internal mechanisms may vary greatly.

Not that any of this matters.

 

(By the way, there's no "Grimlock".)

 

The game has, until now, been balanced for the fact that secondaries are always weaker than primaries.  This seems to be changing, for no real reason.  There's no valid gameplay-related reason why the Marelok should be more powerful than a primary when almost all secondaries have thus far adhered to the model that they are weaker than primaries.

The premise of your argument is false because Brakk is why.

 

(TL;DR:

Brakk

gg)

Edited February 27, 2014 by Knaimhe

[Galactix]

Marelok has an extremely tight spread, which counters its high damage scales. Brakk has a wider spread, but would most likely do the same damage if it had the same spread reduction as the Marelok.

 

Soooo, you're pretty much just reducing the spread to a completely one shot - one kill weapon and paying for the Western flip animation...which is the only reason why I like it ;)

Edited February 27, 2014 by Galactix

[Noble_Cactus]

That's irrelevant.

Grinlok is a primary. Marelok is a secondary.

Apples and oranges here, man.

 

Apples and oranges that fill very, very similar roles. So more like... Granny Smiths and Fujis. Why eat a Fuji that is likely all gross and grainy inside when you could have a nice crisp Granny Smith?

 

 

This is just power creep for the sake of profit.  Either that or DE really is incompetent at balance design.

 

Why not both?

Edited February 27, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[LazyKnight]

It's irrelevant because the Marelok doesn't compete against the Grinlok.

Grinlok is outclassed by Latron prime (its primary equivalent) and the only reason to use Grinlok would be for the status effects. Grinlok raw damage is just bad (if you lack malignant force don't bother with Grinlok). This might be a time when DE just released a pointless weapon (Grinlok) and a weapon that looks just like it only drives home the realization.  

 

 

The game has, until now, been balanced for the fact that secondaries are always weaker than primaries.  

One word: "Acrid"

 

DE only brought secondary in line with the damage 2.0 patch. They have a track record of the side-arms being the de facto weapon of choice.

[SevenLetterKWord]

Apples and oranges that fill very, very similar roles. So more like... Granny Smiths and Fujis. Why eat a Fuji that is likely all gross and grainy inside when you could have a nice crisp Granny Smith?

No, see.

The point was that the Grin- and Marelok aren't mutually exclusive.

You can have both a mediocre Fuji and a nice Granny Smith; they aren't in direct competition against each other.

 

Grinlok is outclassed by Latron prime (its primary equivalent) and the only reason to use Grinlok would be for the status effects. Grinlok raw damage is just bad (if you lack malignant force don't bother with Grinlok). This might be a time when DE just released a pointless weapon (Grinlok) and a weapon that looks just like it only drives home the realization.

Sure, but you see, the guy I quoted tried to emphasize the Grinlok's inadequacy by comparing it to the Marelok.

This thread isn't about the Grinlok anyways.

[LazyKnight]

This thread isn't about the Grinlok anyways.

You are right, it is about Brakk and Marelok, and Brakk is still king of raw dps. Marelok is not even in competition with Brakk at point blank, and if Marelok got nerfed it would be for other reasons (fixing typo like AkMagnus).

 

Fire-rate is the short answer of why Brakk is king.

Edited February 28, 2014 by LazyKnight

[Killerdude8]

That's irrelevant.

Grinlok is a primary. Marelok is a secondary.

Apples and oranges here, man.

Apples and Apples cut in half.

The Marelok is LITERALLY a SHORTER Grinlok.

[KoshLovesYou]

The hilarious thing about this, above all? Is how even though it's a pistol version of the Grinlock in terms of straight up art design identity? It's better than that Grineer sniper rifle in almost every way save for long range accuracy.

The only more hilarious thing is how folks in this thread haven't noticed that yet. Seriously: Look at the two weapons.

Edited February 28, 2014 by KoshLovesYou

[Riccoshot]

Lookin to DPS, Marelok pretty much fits the niche of 15k DPS (+/-) secondaries aside with Akvasto, Embolist, Detron, Dual Cestras, Bronko Prime, Akmagnus, Wraith Twin Vipers.

A tier higher there's a lonely Stug with 22k non-charge.

And Brakk is still a top secondary with 30k (damage falloff though).

 

As a clan weapon maybe it needs a rank only (i would give it a rank 5-6 for instance), but i doubt it since DE sill don't care about the simpliest balance.

[SevenLetterKWord]

Apples and Apples cut in half.

The Marelok is LITERALLY a SHORTER Grinlok.

 

Lurk moar.

The point was that the Grin- and Marelok aren't mutually exclusive.

You can have both a mediocre Fuji and a nice Granny Smith; they aren't in direct competition against each other.

It's irrelevant because the Marelok doesn't compete against the Grinlok.

 

They're not the same type of weapon, so you can equip both at a time, get it?

Primaries. Apples.

Secondaries. Oranges.

 

At least the OP had the good sense to compare the Marelok to the Brakk, which is another secondary.

You can only equip one secondary weapon. Thus, performance primacy is relevant.

 

Woah this spoiler is borked.

Fakkin' WF forums quote format, bein' all weird an' shet.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Knaimhe

[mike29tw]

No, see.

The point was that the Grin- and Marelok aren't mutually exclusive.

You can have both a mediocre Fuji and a nice Granny Smith; they aren't in direct competition against each other.

 

Sure, but you see, the guy I quoted tried to emphasize the Grinlok's inadequacy by comparing it to the Marelok.

This thread isn't about the Grinlok anyways.

 

So can I hold grinlock in one hand and marelok in another?

 

No. I can only use one at any given time. They ARE competing against each other.

[HAYABU5A]

It's not the nerf you should be afraid off. DEvs said that these pistols will be akimbo so Twin Marelok is what's more likely. Although the forums will get it nerfed anyway so it's futile to fight it

marelok will definitely be made akimbo ? thats the main concern as no one wants to invest taters and formas into marelok then twin marelok comes out  

[Ishki88]

So can I hold grinlock in one hand and marelok in another?

 

No. I can only use one at any given time. They ARE competing against each other.

 

Hitman Prime 

 

:3

[Phoenix86]

It is strong but Brakk wins in DPS, reload and overall ease to use