Valkyr Is Really Fun, Without Her Ultimate

[NikolaiLev]

Seriously.  I had my friend play Nekros and ran around, relying on my 2 and 3, swinging my manticore axe about, and had a blast.  With all the health orbs around, I didn't have to spam my ultimate to compensate for her horrible survivability, nor did I have to strap on rejuvenation aura.

 

Her ultimate is unsatisfying.  For its arduously long duration, you're invulnerable, which takes out most of the gameplay.  It's boring like Trinity's ultimate already.  Then you're forced to use these pitiful claws that slow you down while you make silly punching motions that grind you to a halt.  It's obnoxious to try to hit anything that's running away from you, and the chances of hitting multiple targets is terribly low due to its up-swings and stabs.

 

Another thing that hampers her is her long cast times, especially on her 2 and 4.  However, she so desperately needs mods for her offense and defense that Natural Talent seems hardly like an option.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about her "armor tanking."  It seems far more suited to, say, Oberon, given the whole "paladin" deal.  A berserker, thematically, would more likely have tons of health with no armor.  Having so much armor means she needs both Vitality and Steel Fiber to make her survivable; with only health she'd need only vitality.  The downside to that would mean that healing is less effective for her.

 

I think a cool idea for her ultimate, besides making it fun to use, would be to also give the option of using her melee weapon as well; this would obviously be a melee 2.0 thing.

 

All in all I think her ultimate's invulnerability needs to go, and should be replaced with immunity to status effects and a 25% or 50% damage reduction.  It'd be cool if it was a damage boost to both her melee weapon and her claws; ideally in such a way as to keep both roughly equal in terms of usefulness.  It'd also be nice to see her ultimate be severely reduced in duration, perhaps 6s at base, increased by power duration.  You also gain an additional 3s each time you kill an enemy, up to a maximum that is the current duration (this is also increased by power duration).  This means it's far less effective to get angry and then use the tankiness just to revive someone.

 

That said, I'd like to see lifesteal be placed on her Warcry; giving it to allies as well as herself.  This would mean nerfing the lifesteal on her ultimate, which I feel would be an acceptable shift in power.  I enjoy that Warcry is such a powerful ability that it's practically a second ultimate, and that (assuming you lack Flow and aren't surrounded by energy orbs) you need to choose between the two.

 

tl;dr I want Valkyr to be less dependent on her ult to survive, but I also want her ult to be more fun.

[kaboomonme]

What you think is probably what a good portion of us think as well. 

Having a melee-based Warframe that synergizes with our favourite melee weapons is what most of us wanted out of Valkyr when we heard the word "Berzerker" on that livestream.

Please DE, listen to this guy. And if anything, re-work her Ultimate as well. 
 

[RavenousPartyLibrarian]

I like your ideas.

I'm just here to add:

If you're having a hard time keeping up with enemies while using Hysteria, you might want to use her other abilities. Valkyr is probably the warframe with the best skill synergy in the game. You can use ripline to close the gap between you and your enemies, you can use warcry to slow them down while taking care of the low attack speed of the energy claws, and you can use paralysis to... well... stun a tiny bit. It's cheap, and it's not like you're using those shields anyways. 

[GSDAkatsuki]

If DE wants us to be stuck with the claws they are so proud of, then they need to revamp the ultimate where it changes the gameplay style to be something very different and fun where we would want to play in hysteria mode. As is, I reserve hysteria just to res downed teammates or get back some health if needed.

[seren77]

I think saying she has horrid survivability is wrong, who has better than her? If you dont like the duration on hysteria change it, My friend runs 10 second hysteria, I run 25, just different playstyles.

 

Agree she would benefit from being  able to use equipped melee weapon in hsyteria instead of claws.

[Mikki79]

I think saying she has horrid survivability is wrong, who has better than her? If you dont like the duration on hysteria change it, My friend runs 10 second hysteria, I run 25, just different playstyles.

 

Agree she would benefit from being  able to use equipped melee weapon in hsyteria instead of claws.

 

10s Hysteria? How long does Warcry last then? Might as well not have it equipped. It sucks when you want some skills to last long and others not to so when you "improve" one ability you ruin another.

[Ohmlink]

I like that they'd have one of her powers straight up buff her melee damage, she's no more melee focused than Volt is. Ideally it wouldn't be her ult that way there would be reason to use other powers.

[Pure]

10s Hysteria? How long does Warcry last then? Might as well not have it equipped. It sucks when you want some skills to last long and others not to so when you "improve" one ability you ruin another.

 

he never said he had warcry on.  isn't that playstyle if their different times?

 

warcry isn't even good.  you can one hit enemies 1-30 and 30+ you use hysteria.

[Mikki79]

he never said he had warcry on.  isn't that playstyle if their different times?

 

warcry isn't even good.  you can one hit enemies 1-30 and 30+ you use hysteria.

 

I don't know what you're talking about. 114% attack speed is bad? Maybe for guns since you'll waste ammo twice as fast but for melee there is no disadvantage for hitting faster, especially while using hysteria since you never run out of stamina either when clawing stuff.

[NikolaiLev]

What you think is probably what a good portion of us think as well. 

Having a melee-based Warframe that synergizes with our favourite melee weapons is what most of us wanted out of Valkyr when we heard the word "Berzerker" on that livestream.

Please DE, listen to this guy. And if anything, re-work her Ultimate as well. 

 

 

Indeed :V

 

I like your ideas.

I'm just here to add:

If you're having a hard time keeping up with enemies while using Hysteria, you might want to use her other abilities. Valkyr is probably the warframe with the best skill synergy in the game. You can use ripline to close the gap between you and your enemies, you can use warcry to slow them down while taking care of the low attack speed of the energy claws, and you can use paralysis to... well... stun a tiny bit. It's cheap, and it's not like you're using those shields anyways. 

 

This isn't helpful at all, and makes it obvious you didn't read the original post.  So... thanks?

 

If DE wants us to be stuck with the claws they are so proud of, then they need to revamp the ultimate where it changes the gameplay style to be something very different and fun where we would want to play in hysteria mode. As is, I reserve hysteria just to res downed teammates or get back some health if needed.

 

Pretty much.  I can't see why they'd be proud of the claws because they did a sloppy, lazy job with them.

 

10s Hysteria? How long does Warcry last then? Might as well not have it equipped. It sucks when you want some skills to last long and others not to so when you "improve" one ability you ruin another.

 

Pretty much.  Ruining Warcry, a fun ability, just to make Hysteria last shorter doesn't make any sense.  The modding system does not allow me to compensate for Valkyr's problems without creating new ones.

 

he never said he had warcry on.  isn't that playstyle if their different times?

 

warcry isn't even good.  you can one hit enemies 1-30 and 30+ you use hysteria.

 

That's the point of this thread.  The fact you think Warcry isn't good compared to Hysteria makes the problem even more obvious.  Her ultimate is so powerful that an AoE slow aura plus an AoE attack speed aura and an AuE armor aura isn't good compared to it.

 

Something needs to be changed.

[Terrornaut]

I love warcry - it actually allows me to melee like crazy and sometimes outdo hysteria in terms of damage (but only when I pick a great weapon that's bad for Hysteria - which is still a trash issue).  If they put lifesteal on warcry though, there really would be no reason to use Hysteria because Warcry would be great, and Hysteria lackluster. Still, it sounds like DE is married to their concept of hysteria, which does us no good.  Hopefully they change their minds and make hysteria something enjoyable and flexible.

 

Options are always good.

[Keltik0ne]

I just think she's a waste of a slot right now: I lvl'd her to 30 (more than once, tried to forma out her issues) but she's just all round mediocre and an utterly useless frame in terms of late game team synergy.

 

She may be ok for normal stuff though, if you don't use hysteria and carry a good rifle.

Though thats true for all frames.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Keltik0ne

[Varzy]

Honestly, if Hysteria let us use our default melee weapons with a damage bonus on top of that it would be so, so much better since the skill would be sensitive to our playstyles and weaponry rather than force a playstyle onto us.

 

Ideally Hysteria could increase melee damage by x3.5, have 5% lifesteal, make her immune to CC and boost her sprint speed to help her catch enemies. She'd then use Paralysis to stun enemies and Warcry to protect herself from damage.

 

With Steel Fiber and Warcry Valkyr gets over 90% damage mitigation so I really question how needed invulnerability is. Maybe as a panic button, but otherwise...

 

Incidentally, she's the perfect Ogris sniper since she can actually tank the splash damage most of the time, and heal herself.

Edited March 18, 2014 by Varzy

[Mak_Gohae]

I actually have been playing with her from the start without her 4th. It means less damage from her but that translates to a lot of ccing.

[NikolaiLev]

I love warcry - it actually allows me to melee like crazy and sometimes outdo hysteria in terms of damage (but only when I pick a great weapon that's bad for Hysteria - which is still a trash issue).  If they put lifesteal on warcry though, there really would be no reason to use Hysteria because Warcry would be great, and Hysteria lackluster. Still, it sounds like DE is married to their concept of hysteria, which does us no good.  Hopefully they change their minds and make hysteria something enjoyable and flexible.

 

Options are always good.

 

That's why I want them to make Hysteria more fun and useful before they put lifesteal on Warcry.  Making Warcry cost 100 energy after doing so may actually be reasonable; again, the concept of two ultimates is pretty cool to me, so long as it can be sufficiently balanced.

[VampirePirate]

I built Valkyr because I saw how much hate went on in the region chat in-game, and so I was curious to find out for myself what is wrong and what is right with this warframe.  As I played her, leveled her up and such, but I found that I did not need Hysteria at all except for when I wished not to die or when i need to revive teammates.  Also I found it useful to rush through mobs rather than needlessly fight.  All her other abilities, I find satisfactory, except for some aspects of Rip Line.  I agree that they should make some changes, because the concept and mechanics of this warframe are quite cheap and sloppy in my opinion.

 

Most of what is wrong with Valkyr (in my opinion) is the kind of animation applied.  Why not have her travel in a hunched, feral-like fashion with her hands open to better express the use of her energy claws?  Why not have her move extremely fast (from a speed boost as part of the power,) like a wild animal (which i assume the warframe itself is styled after), and have her swing her arms and claws like a feral monster or angry cat?  Why not use motion blur to express the speed at which she swings her claws to melee?  Why have her float above the ground during hysteria melee action, (as seen in many anime shows,) instead of allowing for her to run along the ground and be able to leap, catch, pounce, claw, and maul her targets?  Why not have it so that each time you kill a target, it extends the duration of hysteria until you run out of targets to kill while in that state?  I would assume that she is like that of X-Men's Wolverine but without the retractable metal blades and colorful spandex.  There are some ways to go about it so that Valkyr would not resemble Marvel Comics (or anime) in any way.

 

Rip Line: This is a good concept but bad application, due to mechanics.  Why is it that we can only travel far when aiming the laser cable upward?  Would it not be most effective to work well in all directions?  In this case it would feel more like a warframe power and not some toy weapon that might resemble something like Power Rangers.  To improve this mechanic would also make Valkyr more dynamic and perhaps more useful when using Rip Line.  Perhaps if it actually had an arrowhead-like hook at the end, it would seem to be more fun of a power to use and to see -- perhaps by holding the button like a charge attack, it would actually puncture or skewer targets like a spear.  Also, it would be better to also treat it as a multipurpose tool, to help the warframe climb terrain or perform acrobatic feats that would best benefit her and teammates in battle, (in addition to climbing or launching from place to place on maps in any direction.)

 

These are the things that ran through my mind when using Valkyr.  Just some thoughts.

[Otakuwolf]

Imo, she's fine as it is, i saw too many frames being "ruined" because somebody asked for some change that most of the times has been misunderstood and/or done in the very wrong way to the point of "destroying" theyr purpouse.

 

People who only play with Hysteria are just the same people who spam MP with Nova, Stomp with Rhino, and every other ult of every other frame and nothing else.

 

If you don't like it just don't use it, as i see it now is not THAT game breaking like other skills from other frames i won't talk about because it always happen to unleash a drama swarm, after all even if it is an ult you still have to take down every single enemy one by one so you can't say it's a "press to win" skill, especially on defence and mobile defence missions in which if you're going for one enemy another one could pass by and attack the objective, damage it, and maybe destroy it anyway.

 

Lately i'm also playing a lot as Valkyrie since i'm leveling quite of melee weapons, and guess what, i almost never use my Hysteria because to me, as every other ult of every other warframe, is just a "panic button", and THAT is what is supposed to be, a panic button to press if you can't do anything else, most of the times i use her other three skills (Ripline is a nice STFU to heavy units gunfire) and i'm still perfectly fine anyway.

 

This is not much a matter of skills, i mean, if you don't like X skill just don't use it, i can understand you might want something different but asking for something that could be misunderstood and/or be done in the wrong way to change/rebalance it is a bad idea, at least seeing what happened to other frames so far.

If you don't like it just leave it there, and if you don't like the way people "abuse" of it then "sadly" is a problem of almost every frame with "cheap skills", especially those who can nuke stages with just one single button.

 

And as side note, i actually like her "claws" when uses Hysteria, makes her resemble more of a savage beast, if she would use her melee weapon instead it would "ruin" that feeling which, i think, the developers were looking for.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Otakuwolf

[--GZ--Cegorach]

She useless with high lvl enemies, she useless in Nightmare, she useless against most high Bosses and she useless against Stalker, She useless for team, just if she gets enough energy she can somehow tank same or low lvl mass for 25 sec, armor most useless thing I see in this game, and damage from shield that you don't even have... But she is fun to play, anyway sold her, will create Nyx or Loki on main account... But now really boring every sec running with Mag to revive Vlkyr players....

Edited March 21, 2014 by Eldrad-Ulthran

[Pure]

She useless with high lvl enemies, she useless in Nightmare, she useless against most high Bosses and she useless against Stalker, She useless for team, just if she gets enough energy she can somehow tank same or low lvl mass for 25 sec, armor most useless thing I see in this game, and damage from shield that you don't even have... But she is fun to play, anyway sold her, will create Nyx or Loki on main account... But now really boring every sec running with Mag to revive Vlkyr players....

 

huh i never died with my valkyr?  why would a mag revive them?

[Raileks]

She useless with high lvl enemies, she useless in Nightmare, she useless against most high Bosses and she useless against Stalker, She useless for team, just if she gets enough energy she can somehow tank same or low lvl mass for 25 sec, armor most useless thing I see in this game, and damage from shield that you don't even have... But she is fun to play, anyway sold her, will create Nyx or Loki on main account... But now really boring every sec running with Mag to revive Vlkyr players....

 

ummm no.  Right now Valkyr is my strongest frame because of her broken invulnerability.  I can enter any game,even solo, even against the most ludicrous enemies and be guaranteed to survive because of hysteria spam.  

 

Survivability outside hysteria?  Steel armor gives her over 1000 armor.  I dont even use shields.  When I do a nightmare mission with no shields, thats just a normal mission.  When I hit a cold place and Lotus tells me my shields have been halved Im like "Shields?  Is that a thing now?"  Honestly I dont even use hysteria as often as I could because half the time Im waiting for the enemies to drop my armor low enough for it to be worth using it.  Although they have caught me by surprise and as a group bursted me down 100-200 hp real quick.  Im embarrassed any time I need a revive with valkyr.  She should never need a revive.

 

Her other abilities do not need fixing(much).  Ripline is just plain hella fun and useful(easier than using wormhole) and while it can be difficult to use, simplifying it I think would retract from some of the tricks you can pull because it doesnt drag you all the way from point A to B.  Warcry is a must when combo'd with hysteria and when u just want to move faster/fire your glaive faster, beat the snot out of people with Orthos P. faster/ Be faster.  Dont ever use warcry with dual zoren.  you can't handle the speed.  Paralysis... is the slow kid on her ability list.  Its not far from being good though.  Very spammable.. but i think my jump attack is more effective at what it does for cheaper(if a bit slower).   It needs more and  just about anything would be an improvement.

 

Hysteria itself.. is more complicated than is it good/bad because it is good and bad.  Becoming invulnerable and godmoding takes the challenge and therefore the fun out of the game and should not be allowed at all, much less for as long as its allowed on Valkyr... and that should be the end of it but its not.  I find myself having alot of fun in this godmode state because of the skill required to actually land ur hits with her crappy melee claws and the necessity to do it alot before time runs out.  On the levels I play at with Valkyr, if I dont manage to fully replenish my hp with hysteria's lifesteal before time runs out I am boned.  Godmode..er hysteria isnt "okay now I can relax"  Its "Hurry up and eat everyones face or your gonna die before you reach your next godmode!!!  Get in the air! Wack that, uppercut that gunner and rip his face out on the ground, slam! knock everyone down! Eat their faces!!!  Heavy Grineer? eat their faces! Bosses? Eat Their Faces! G3? EAT THEIR FACES!"  (Faces are an important nutritional supplement, required for valkyrs health and wellbeing and she needs to take several thousand doses a day) I dont deny it could be different and better and more useable for most people but I cant deny Ive gotten more entertainment out of it than that broken ability had any right to give.

 

Just finished a level 36 mobile defense on pluto by myself with my biggest worry being "can I hit the enemies fast enough to stop them from attacking my computer"  Warcry says yes... yes i can.  Thats the one caveat to her "invincibility"  It doesnt make the cryopod, or the hacker node, or the hostage invincible with her.  Also it doesnt work against Stalker..... so yeah thats about all I have to say... if you want a fix for Valkyr, I wont argue it.  I bet she could be better but dont say she isnt fun to use.  Broken... maybe, but fun and too easy to use.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Raileks

[Leriel]

With dual ichor, high ranking power mods combined with hysteria and paralysis you can enjoy 13k+ damage due to the x4 melee damage boost or stealth attack prompt on enemies affected by paralysis.

 

Executing stealth attack on enemies with high armor is better since the damage dealt is not mitigated by armor. You could also proceed with normal punching/finisher for higher dps but damage will be mitigated by armor, though damage reduction is negligible since that you have a high crit chance of 70% ( hysteria base crit + dual ichor and crit mods ) and warcry speed boost + x4 melee damage boost from Paralysis. 

 

I'll just use ripline to close the distance between my enemies when they run away, combined with coolant leak from sentinel its pretty easy to punch stuff. Though I have other builds for Valkyr, I find this one most entertaining since you get to enjoy killing high level enemies easily with the stealth kill prompt from Paralysis.

[Raileks]

I did not realize paralysis gave a killing blow prompt.  maybe some use to the ability after all.

[--GZ--Cegorach]

huh i never died with my valkyr?  why would a mag revive them?

Nice question, I'm asking exactly same.

@Gold Initiate

So if this was bug that in 90% you can stun 0 enemies, and enemies can kill you in ultimate, so hope it will be fixed soon... yes I had 960 armor and nothing changed if I pick armor mod or not, damage reduction was so low that me and my friend half an hour was laughing on this... And yes I say she is fun, but not my one, think she can be much better/funner the she is now, and her survivability as I see is just on her Ult, it's not good I think when click just 1 skill and whoala - you are god, but in most missions and against stalker I prefer Mag, Nova or Nyx then Valkyr in my team

Only one thing I'm hoping - never see Valkyr in my team on Nightmare missions and against Lephantis...

Edited March 23, 2014 by Eldrad-Ulthran

[Oriviagene]

Warcry everywhere...

Only hysteria when need to replenish my hp :/

So yeah,there's no need for everlasting hysteria for me :o

[Riasiru]

Wonderful post of Valkyr glory.

^ This, all of this. It's so satisfying to combo a ground slam into a finisher against a Heavy Gunner Leader in a T3 game and seeing its HP tank instantly to 0 when a Brakk was shrugged off before hand like it was nothing more than a Lato. 

Edited March 24, 2014 by Riasiru