The Death Of Broken Lights!

[Clawtank96]

Just saying the lights werent really a problem for me, but my friends who are still excals got 1 shot by them. 

[Sapphonomicon]

All the code suggests that it is not possible for them to even spawn in Mercury, yet I've seen this suggested a few times. I have not encountered one in Mercury, has anyone? They aren't supposed to spawn there.

 

I don't know about the new tesla traps, but I definitely saw broken lights on Appollodorus when they were around. Part of the reason why I campaigned so hard to have them removed.

[DiabolusUrsus]

Well, you see, it reminds many of Dark Souls idea of difficulty.

 

That is to say, non-telegraphed, without warning, death traps.

And like the stockholm syndromed in digital format victims many become, they accept that as a challenging and engaging mechanic.

You know, I believed that Dark Souls had non-telegraphed and without warning death traps for a while. Then I did some thinking. And re-examining. And every. Single. Trap I encountered had some sort of precursory warning. Maybe not immediately obvious. Maybe infuriatingly subtle bordering on unreasonable. But the warning signs were there.

The iron ball that rolls down the stairs in the Asylum? There's a breakable wall right at the end of what is otherwise a perfect ramp. Coincidence? I think not.

The explosive barrel in the Undead Burg? If you take the time to kill the crossbow hollow at the top of the tower you can see the hollow at the top of the staircase with the barrel ready to roll down. You can even glimpse it before you go up the stairs if you pay attention.

The Hellkite Drake that swoops in and ruins your day on the bridge? He shows up as soon as you enter the Undead Burg, and the Undead Merchant mentions that a "monstrous drake" is lurking about. It's easy to forget about him, sure, but you should remember he's there, and bad things always happen on wide, open bridges. I forget whether or not there were any scorch marks warning you, either.

The other traps are the same. They're incredibly hard to see coming, but it's possible. They're harder to avoid once you trip them, but that's the mark of an effective trap. Throw in the fact that unless you're playing offline and not getting the full experience there are about a half-dozen messages warning you of an impending trap, and the player really has no excuse for their unwariness. Would it be nicer if they were more integrated into the gameplay experience? Yes, definitely. Nevertheless, the traps are not nearly as bad as some people make them out to be.

[CandyDragon]

-snip-

honestly though, this is still boiling down to "after dying to it repeatedly, I noticed the telegraphs"

This kind of game design forcing repetition and restarts to discover each and every pitfall is just silly and brutal most of the time.

 

While this is great to set a pace for the game, more often than not it serves only to artificially inflate the time needed to traverse the world. 

 

More to the point though, is that the lightbulbs did little to draw attention to themselves in some mutations and others would simply be unavoidable. Unless you ran this game at a crawl and took your time, even then getting jolted by them.

 

Not a problem for me personally, but it is still bad game design.

 

Arc traps now behave in a similar fashion, while they can now be used against the enemy, they still like to be shoved into bad places where maps meeting, or spawn points are.

Earlier I had not one, but three arc traps in one spawn. Killed the poor banshee that spawned with me.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Nariala

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

*reads entire topic following initial post by OP*

 

It's weird. After all the moaning about the lights, and then the changes that were made to them, I'd expected people to welcome this change with a bit more... I don't know. Amity. At the very least a brief break from the warpath.

 

Instead people have been either oblivious, uninterested, or totally acidic.

 

Well forums, you've done it. I bestow upon you my saddest, most fatigued sigh.

 

*sigh*

This is nothing unusual.

 

Dissatisfied people are pretty much more vocal than satisfied people. Now that people dissatisfied with the lights have been catered to, they don't really have much else to say, and those who liked the lights are now speaking up more because they're the new dissatisfied people and have something to say.

 

It's worth noting that there are a lot less people complaining about their removal than their implementation, though.

[Virtus_Dei_Est]

*reads entire topic following initial post by OP*

 

It's weird. After all the moaning about the lights, and then the changes that were made to them, I'd expected people to welcome this change with a bit more... I don't know. Amity. At the very least a brief break from the warpath.

 

Instead people have been either oblivious, uninterested, or totally acidic.

 

Well forums, you've done it. I bestow upon you my saddest, most fatigued sigh.

 

*sigh*

 

i think you can see this from another perspective.

 

if i beat you with a plank, you hate it, and later if i hit you with a stick, you should thank me?

 

no, because , maybe , you dont enjoy be beaten at all.

 

some ideas are stupid, no matter how they are implemented or tweaked (like the grinner tesla cheap rays of death).

 

is like RNG.

 

as a dev ill make you spend months to get something in the void, then will be lessened to mere weeks, and better be gratefull mate!

 

no, even in this way RNG would be bad implemented, you see, alleviating a big mess, becoming in a little mess, in the end is still a mess.

 

* Beside the examples i hope my idea was well expressed.

* sorry for broken english, i am sleepy.

[GefestXXL]

Fix it

[kaboomonme]

The issue is players want to rush through missions and enjoy the fast pace, while dark souls has a much more slowed down and methodical pace to it.  You have to be a tad bit more forgiving in the fast pace of a game, be it in damage or in revival/healing mechanics. 

This just irks me to no end but

RUSHING and FAST PACED are not the same thing.

The lights were a problem, yes, but fast-paced gameplay does NOT justify cancerous behavior of rushing. Believe me or not, fast-paced gameplay CAN be achieved without rushing.

[Blowfist]

Introduction of lights

 

Space Ninjas - Excellent, now the difficulty has been raised from 'god mode' to 'Easy mode'. I might need to pay attention while I play.

 

Space Wizards - WTF DE, I have to equip shields or health and pay attention! I'M A GOD DAMN SPACE WIZARD.

 

DE - shhhh you shhh Space Wizard, everything's going to be okay. We'll nerf it, we'll nerf it back to god mode.

 

Nerf introduced

 

Space Ninjas - Back to Diablo 3 I go.

 

Space Wizards - PEW PEW PEW Wizards in space *@##$es!

 

[Llyssa]

So many people pretending that lights didn't 1-shot for over 1k damage.

 

Er, wait, maybe you're all rhinos, so you don't actually notice these sorts of things? That seems the more likely explanation. Yes.

 

Let's all ask the rhinos about how the other 20 frames in the game should handle random, unavoidable 1k+ spike damage.

[ReapsterPL]

So many people pretending that lights didn't 1-shot for over 1k damage.

 

Er, wait, maybe you're all rhinos, so you don't actually notice these sorts of things? That seems the more likely explanation. Yes.

 

Let's all ask the rhinos about how the other 20 frames in the game should handle random, unavoidable 1k+ spike damage.

Strange while walking about with my Saryn, mag or volt on ceres i never got shot for more then 550 dmg a shot :S

[Kartumterek]

Only the dudes running around in 300 health (seriously?) get one shotted. Anyone with even anything remotely tank related installed in their frame had zero problems. Think I know what the problem is...

[PrincessWhite]

This was my main problem with traps - poor placement or level generation

 

How are you ever going to reach right area without taking a zap at this situation? The red circle marks the zapping range. If you open or pass the door you'll get zapped. If you don't then you have no way of damaging the trap.

 

As if that wasn't bad enough, sometimes traps on other sides of walls just ignore the wall and zap you anyways when you get close enough. That's just like haha screw you, enjoy your no shields and -50 hp if you're playing on a frame with low max shields.

[ReapsterPL]

This was my main problem with traps - poor placement or level generation

 

How are you ever going to reach right area without taking a zap at this situation? The red circle marks the zapping range. If you open or pass the door you'll get zapped. If you don't then you have no way of damaging the trap.

 

As if that wasn't bad enough, sometimes traps on other sides of walls just ignore the wall and zap you anyways when you get close enough. That's just like haha screw you, enjoy your no shields and -50 hp if you're playing on a frame with low max shields.

BEST Ever NYX Fanart detected + 1 given, You just made me smile for the first time today XD big thanks.

Yeah such placement was a pain, however right now those things are no longer "traps" in my book

[Othergrunty]

This was my main problem with traps - poor placement or level generation

 

How are you ever going to reach right area without taking a zap at this situation? The red circle marks the zapping range. If you open or pass the door you'll get zapped. If you don't then you have no way of damaging the trap.

 

As if that wasn't bad enough, sometimes traps on other sides of walls just ignore the wall and zap you anyways when you get close enough. That's just like haha screw you, enjoy your no shields and -50 hp if you're playing on a frame with low max shields.

 

I would like to add that i have encountered traps floating in mid air. Primarily around chasms. Apperently the deadzone that marks something as "bottomless pit" is also registered as valid spawn location.

There are definetly still some oddities that need to be ironed out with the traps.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Othergrunty

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

All the code suggests that it is not possible for them to even spawn in Mercury, yet I've seen this suggested a few times. I have not encountered one in Mercury, has anyone? They aren't supposed to spawn there.

Ah okay, thanks Rebecca!

See guys? Now how about you stop trying to use that old "too hard for newcomers" shtick because it has just been officially disproven.

[seren77]

Strange while walking about with my Saryn, mag or volt on ceres i never got shot for more then 550 dmg a shot :S

 

lucky perhaps, anyway there is video's and screen grabs around of it. It happened.

 

 

 

on topic, the new traps are tolerable. If tolerable gameplay mechanics was what DE is going for then I guess it is a success.

Edited March 21, 2014 by seren77

[Tsrintox]

This goes back to the discussion about artificial difficulty way back when toxic ancients left clouds and almost every infested attack was a knockdown. Idk why anyone would want to take extra damage, and I feel sorry for newer players who had suffered against the broken lights, but really they were a bad idea . People who argue it adds challenge, not really if you were a high enough level to shrug it off then you would, if not you would die or get badly damaged, how does this add useful challenge to the game?

I do see arc traps a better alternative, they make logical sense, and they are something you need to and can actively avoid which is completely possible(unless they are stuck in a wall). I was hit by 6 lights in less than 10 seconds and shot out 2 and survived with low health on a fully modded valkyr, I purposely rushed to protect my lowbie team from dying, mind you I only had a chance to see 3 lights, didn't seem fair to them, and definitely was annoying for me. Whereas now it is important to pay attention to your environment to avoid unnecessary damage. I do agree that the traps could use a little more damage, but overall way better than lights.

[(NSW)Omgwtfl9lbbl]

Ah okay, thanks Rebecca!

See guys? Now how about you stop trying to use that old "too hard for newcomers" shtick because it has just been officially disproven.

There were a few reports of the lights spawning in Mercury survival after her post, so in all likelihood, it was bugged and a mistake was made somewhere. Players wouldn't have known it was a bug because it was never explicitly stated elsewhere that they weren't supposed to spawn on Mercury.

 

This is where letting your beta testers know what you actually intend for your new mechanics and how they are meant to work comes in handy *cough*

[Gregio]

Those traps are just bad in general.
I approve of the new design council idea, but these traps? They're just ridiculous, they're either blatantly obvious which beats the purpose of being a trap, or they're glitchy, or they hit you through walls, furthermore, why are they even necessary?

We already have a LOT of things to consider in the game, all the enemies, running through a place without maxed gear, leveling up stuff, the new DC idea of turrets is awesome, get a stationary high-power thing that's obviously dangerous (and hopefully actually IS dangerous) and that's awesome, add sucker punch traps that only serve to annoy the player and the logical conclusion is simple, these traps are yet another attempt by DE to stop blatant rushing that harms the general playerbase more than it impedes the rushers.

[DeadX65]

just to address 'these are to slow down players rushing'

DE, you created that dynamic and because of host migration issues, client crashes, it is the most logical way for a group to clear a mission AND keep the stuff they get.

 

there would be rushers regardless, but in this game, with how you have it set up, it is the only way to assure completion is to get it done as quickly as possible, that's not on the players, that's on you DE. so trying to add mechanics to slow down players only means you don't even recognize one of the primary reasons for rushing. /facepalm

 

now, if you had some kind of backup, where a host migration, crash, or DC could allow loot to be kept and log back into the mission, that by itself would reduce some rushing, as there is plenty of loot that's just bypassed for the sake of completion. as it stands now however, getting through a mission as quickly as possible when on a team is the most practical counter to your hosting scheme.

 

think about that

[Yousho]

Rushing is the symptom of a much greater problem.
Treating the symptom will not make the problem go away.
Traps serve no real purpose other than a failed attempt to negate something which is merely the byproduct of a larger issue.