Retune *all* The Frames! (11/19: Wildfire)

[Buzkyl]

Nidus does give evidence that DE can make decent DPS scaling without crushing balance, his abilities scaling in the most unique of ways, they start of relatively weak then gradually get stronger as you use more of his skills in synergy. Unlike Mod scaling which sets DPS at a flat value, his Adaption Points are in a state of flux as he is using it to both cast skills and avoid death.

Virulence method of scaling is something that other DPS skills can adopt. Example Miasma

• Miasma:  Instead of 100% addition damage if the enemy is under a Viral/Toxin proc, scale it down to roughly 10%-20% additional damage for every active instance of a toxin/viral proc on an enemy when Miasma is used on them. On lower levels Miasma would remain a relatively decent nuke but as enemy EHP goes up, Saryn would have more time to stack Toxin/Viral procs from both her skills and weaponry (as there are mods that boost status duration) too boost Miasma damage into greater levels. Ofcourse along with a corrosive proc per tick of damage that would Miasma role as a finisher in Saryn kit alot more solidified.

[(PSN)JTmothertcker]

was reading it and thinking to myself "yeah this makes sense" and then i got to ivara's prowl..........no.

[Archwizard]

4 hours ago, (PS4)JTmotherfcker said:

was reading it and thinking to myself "yeah this makes sense" and then i got to ivara's prowl..........no.

Clearly you were skimming, since that's the same line for Hydroid (and Nekros losing Desecrate) before her in the list.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Archwizard

[(PSN)JTmothertcker]

1 hour ago, Archwizard said:

Clearly you were skimming, since that's the same line for Hydroid (and Nekros losing Desecrate) before her in the list.

I don't care about hydroid, he sucks. And nekros already got a rework so any point that was made on it is moot. As for Ivaras bow, hahaha that would make it ripe for nerfing and is never going to happen.

[tnccs215]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)JTmotherfcker said:

I don't care about hydroid, he sucks.

That's extremely biased, and honestly contradictory. The fact he sucks is a reason why this matters. 

 

29 minutes ago, (PS4)JTmotherfcker said:

. And nekros already got a rework so any point that was made on it is moot.

Non sequitur. The point of this thread is to propose the best changes to the status quo, not analyze whether said changes are likely to happen or not.

 

30 minutes ago, (PS4)JTmotherfcker said:

As for Ivaras bow, hahaha that would make it ripe for nerfing and is never going to happen.

Oh yeah, nerfing in Warframe is so common. Not like it's a bi-year event tops.

[Hammahness808]

I don't have any substance to add but was curious about what the rework ideas for Hydroid and Oberon and I was extremely impressed on how easily I could accept those changes. I don't think they'd be overpowered and hope to RNJesus that DE will get close to these suggested reworks.

[Archwizard]

Finished leveling Nidus.

Really the only issue I can find with his abilities, is that his 1 could use some improved pathing. It seems to end abruptly on any ledge beyond slight depth, rather than attempting to cover the entire range like Ice Wave does. Several cases where I'll be, for instance, standing on the pod and completely unable to hit anything that isn't on the same level.
Beyond that, possibly some minor issues with his 2 occasionally being flung where you didn't aim it, bouncing into the air above where you can hit with your 1. Not really a mechanical fix that can go there, just "fix plz".

What I love about Nidus, is that he's probably the best example of a Warframe who is well-designed but not necessarily for everyone. His playstyle has flaws, but they're intentionally built in: He takes time to ramp up, so his Mutation wouldn't work as a design for every frame... but the build-up is well worth it, every ability scales or provides utility, his kit synergizes very well mechanically, and he strikes an admirable balance between "easy to pick up" (2-1-2-1-2-1) and "difficult to master" (figuring out how to combine the buffs from his latter two abilities), with a clear goal in mind for maximization (to build as many stacks as possible).
Too frequently we see attempts at discussion for a given frame slapped down with the excuse "If you don't like it, just don't play it." In those contexts, it's generally used to refer to the playstyle as a whole, ignorant of the design flaws or the behavior it encourages; the shut-down runs on the fallacious premise that the kit doesn't need to (or cannot) be improved.
In Nidus' case though... the design isn't an issue, and there's very little to add to it that shouldn't be an augment. Aside from minor issues, he does exactly what he was designed for, exactly as well as you can play him. I hesitate to call any design "perfect" but it would be incredibly difficult (and with no small amount of required stretching) to argue that it's bad. If you don't like playing him, it can only be attributed to him being designed in a manner that runs counter to the way you prefer to play, not due to a lack within the kit.

The primary behavioral issue I can find with Nidus is that he encourages and rewards players for kill-stealing, and can be punishing if you aren't the one doing the kill-stealing. That's really it though - and might even be possible to work around with the near-passive stacking from his ultimate.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Archwizard

[Landpaddle]

I was looking over the feedback for Titania on the list, and I figured I'd add my own two cents from experience with her.

At the moment, Titania works best as a DPS frame oriented predominantly around her fourth ability, Razorwing. This stems from several factors, namely:

• A small suite of survivability powers in the form of her 2--Tribute's evasion buff stacks--and immediate protection from harm with her 4, Razorwing.
• Long casting times for relatively ineffective 1-3.
  • Natural Talent is almost mandatory for a debuff build.
• Low effective range of abilities without reducing Power Strength.
• The need to spam her 1-3 for maximum effect, almost as much as old, pre-rework Desecrate Nekros.
• Unreliable nature of her 1 and 3 and lack of synergy between powers.
  • You cannot milk a buff via Tribute from an enemy that is affected by her 1, Spellbind.

To make her suite work more smoothly, in addition to the valuable changes listed in the original post, I suggest:

• Reduce the casting time of Spellbind and Tribute by about 50%.
  • Spellbind would work best as a sidegrade to Nyx's Mind Control, allowing quick immobilization of a priority target (such as a mook manning a Rampart) without getting in harm's way.
  • Tribute's inherent need to be recasted to stack buffs leaves you vulnerable for extended periods of time.
• Allow Spellbind and Lantern to immobilize Bursas
  • Using Nyx as a parallel again, her Mind Control can target Bursas and make them allies, and Chaos also works on them. Simply allowing Titania to immobilize them would be a valuable asset on both open Corpus maps and ones with tight corridors, wherein it's difficult for such a squishy frame to get behind them.
• Allow Tribute to work on Spellbound enemies
  • Although not of much importance from a balancing perspective, this would be a simple quality of life improvement.
• Apply Tribute's ally buffs independent of range
  • Sometimes, you will need to separate from the group to find an enemy that gives the desired buff. This results in the buff of Tribute only applying to yourself, since you were not within range of your group. You are already worrying about several timers and the need to maintain them--having to worry about proximity to other players as well makes it just tedious in group play.
• Slightly reduce the energy expense of Titania's 1-3 while in Razorwing mode
  • Initially in a devstream, DE toyed with the idea of making the use of other powers while in Razorwing cost no energy at all, but this was later scrapped. Instead, consider using the approach taken in post-nerf Ash, wherein using Blade Storm while under the effects of Smoke Screen reduces energy cost.
  • Reducing the expense of powers while in Razorwing would encourage more active play, since at present, it's just not viable to eat up loads of energy while it's also being used for a Channeled ability like her 4, even when at max channel efficiency from 190 power efficiency and okay duration.
  • Suggested energy cost reduction per ability at base drain (25, 50, and 75, respectively):
    • Spellbind: -5 or -10
    • Tribute: -10 or -15
    • Lantern: -25
• Make swinging the Diwata regenerate 1-2 Razorflies with every swing
  • At the moment, players must refresh this count by exiting Razorwing mode and recasting it, something that can leave you unnecessarily vulnerable and further increases energy expense over time. Maintaining your Razorfly army before it is fully depleted expedites the process of maintaining that invaluable aggro generation. Moreover, it would provide a straightforward incentive to use the Diwata via incomperable balancing factor.

I hope the above suggestions are reasonable and taken to heart. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

[Hammahness808]

29 minutes ago, Landpaddle said:

 

• Make swinging the Diwata regenerate 1-2 Razorflies with every swing
  • At the moment, players must refresh this count by exiting Razorwing mode and recasting it, something that can leave you unnecessarily vulnerable and further increases energy expense over time. Maintaining your Razorfly army before it is fully depleted expedites the process of maintaining that invaluable aggro generation. Moreover, it would provide a straightforward incentive to use the Diwata via incomperable balancing factor.

I hope the above suggestions are reasonable and taken to heart. Thank you for taking the time to read this.

I have not played with Titania extensively so my opinion is pretty moot. With that said, I simply suggest having Razorflies regeneration come from holding down 4 like Inaros' mechanic.

[(PSN)USmarshall17]

 

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 10:25 AM, Xarteros said:

[Spoilers] for War Within and Second Dream



Now that we have the ability to bust out into our Operator form at-will and destroy enemies with uber hand lasers, I think it's the perfect opportunity to implement a much-needed change to how our main Focus powers are deployed.

Animation Change: Probably the hardest thing to change here (still not hard), but instead of hovering like a perfectly-still scarecrow, we should be hovering more like Titania, with our powers actually being released from our hands. We basically have all the hand animations, and the "floatier" hovering animations to start from, the job is already half done.

Control Change: Instead of just having pulses of effect released over time (nobody enjoys this, because there's no interaction with the power), key the main Focus ability into your Operator's controls. Madurai is a perfect example of how fitting this system would be. Right click could still aim/zoom and left click would release the power (beam for Madurai, pulse waves for the other schools). You could even make it so aiming with any of the pulse/wave schools increases the distance but narrows the wave angle, so you can release short, wide waves or long, narrow ones. Just an option.

This control change would also open up doors to adding additional powers to the focus tree, as you could add unique dash attacks and E pulse attacks (or even replace the right-mouse zoom with another power altogether). Room for expansion is what keeps people playing (and paying!)

This would also fit well with allowing the operator to directly transition into the Focus power form; They begin levitating, become temporarily invulnerable, and it changes their attacks. I like to use my operator to scout out areas where my non-stealthy warframes can't risk treading, but if I run into a group of enemies it'd be great to bust out a Focus power to kill/CC them.

Ability Change: Probably one of the biggest issues I find with focus powers is that people just want their awesome passives, as soon as possible. People don't want to stack on more ability power, because it makes them wait longer and longer each mission before they can get their passives going. Furthermore, once they use their power for the first time, it's normally cancelled right away to get back to their normal Warframe/Weapon usage with their passive now helping out, so the Focus power itself is just entirely wasted.

To fix this, there are a few good options. First, make all mission-length passives commence from the beginning of the mission. It's not really OP, it's just a quality-of-life thing that has led to the utter neglect of the Focus powers themselves.

If that's still too OP, make your equipped passives begin from the start of the mission, but activate incrementally. They would start off as if they were unranked, and each third of your cooldown counter upgrades it to the next highest rank (if you've unlocked higher ranks). For example, if you had a 180 second cooldown, your equipped passives would start off at rank 0, then hit rank 1 at 60 seconds, rank 2 at 120 seconds, and final rank 3 at 180 seconds. If you only have rank 2 of the passive unlocked, it would just reach its full potential at that 120 second mark (or whatever 2/3rds of your particular cooldown is). It'd make the whole thing feel less tedious.

Charge-based passives like Vazarin's New Moon (insta-revives) would function in reverse, with an unranked ability only applying one charge on the full cooldown (again using 180 seconds), and each additional charge per rank activating a third earlier. For example, one rank gives a charge at 120 and 180, two ranks gives a charge at 60, 120 and 180, max rank gives you a charge from the beginning of the mission, then the charges at 60/120/180.

Other passives with limited duration, area, or charges based on some form of duration would still be triggered from using your main Focus power as normal.

The second main change I'd like to see is the incremental consumption of your accumulated Focus power/cooldown. Instead of just ticking for X number of seconds and using the entire bar, It should act as an energy pool, draining as you use your powers (with a slight passive drain over time to "pay" for your invulnerable state). Cancelling the state early would preserve the remaining amount of Focus power/cooldown, and thereby shorten the time before you're recharged and ready for another attack. Use half your bar? Wait half the time before you can use the power again. Maybe give it a slight activation cost if people are afraid of somehow exploiting it.

It'd be really useful to be able to just throw out a few waves here and there, because a lot of people are hesitant to use a power that takes so long to recharge, and they end up not bothering to use it at all.

Mind Change: Focus powers have some great potential, but some of that needs to be realised and put in play before people will put more attention and effort into it. Focus has room for grand expansion, and the more fun and engaging it is, the more thoughtful feedback and bright ideas we'll see on the matter. 

Have some helpful ideas? Constructive tweaks/alternatives to my ideas? Post below, but keep any "Hurr durr it's already a perfect system" out of this thread please! Lets be constructive =)

BTW Does anyone know where to find focus/operator based discussion.

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2014 at 9:53 PM, Archwizard said:

In a perfect world, all Warframes would be competent at their role on their own, but capable of great feats of synergy beyond any one frame together. All of their abilities would be useful, mesh together and make sense in their hands (rather than just putting emphasis on spamming the "most useful" button); all of their themes and archetypes would be recognized and done justice. Gimmicky mods would be minor gameplay improvements, not requirements to get a frame off the ground. While not all stats would be necessary or useful, no stat would be actively detrimental to improve (and of course, Corrupted mods would actually have trade-offs rather than double-dipping in benefits).

This... is not that perfect world.

Numbers can be hotfixed at any time, but faulty mechanics have proven to be slower and more stubborn to change. Once a frame is released, the damage is already done – and course-correction is accused of being a “major revamp” that threatens to make the frame unrecognizable, or otherwise creates a backlash. Sometimes though, part of the original vision can just be wrong; a frame could be overspecialized, or focused on gimmicks over gameplay, or have abilities spread far too thin to stand on their own feet in completing their role. There were droves of players who felt penalized by Update 15's changes to abilities, as they forma'd away most of their ability slots! With issues like these, drastic changes are called for.
Today, I would like to look at what I think Warframe would be like in this hypothetical “perfect world”. Below is a list I’ve compiled of changes to frame behaviors and roles – not just “buffs”, but gameplay-altering adjustments to abilities.

Don't skim the list! This post is a frequently-updated compilation of months of feedback and brainstorming, and I already simplify the suggestions as much as I can. At least check that your suggestion for your favorite frame isn't already listed!

The List

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General Gameplay Changes

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AI overhaul: Mind Controlled enemies, Shadows of the Dead, Specters and Kubrows approach and focus on enemies or locations you zoom in on, will ignore cover, and will follow you when enemies are not within their range of notice. Unless prompted by the focus command, they will prioritize enemies most damaging to their master, followed by those closest to their master - until their main target is killed in all cases, unless a higher priority interrupts.

Sentinel/Kubrow mods added to dictate behavior: Vacuum now is a universal Sentinel mod, Retrieve is now a universal Kubrow mod. Additional mods added to program focusing on cameras, shooting at traps, shooting containers, etc.
--> Carrier's Vacuum changed from “pick up loot” to Onihikage's "Pack Mule".
--> Shade's Ghost breaks X sec after initiating an attack, affected by rank.
--> Helios' Investigator scans faster based on mod rank, faster than a normal Codex scanner at max rank.
--> Dethcube's Vaporize cooldown inversely affected by mod rank.
--> Chesa's Retrieve changed to now disarm enemies.

Damage tables reworked:
1) Radiation more effective against Infested Flesh than Robotics, Magnetic more effective against Ferrite Armor than Infested Flesh; Bleed damage is reduced on shielded targets, Toxin status can only bring you as low as 1 HP (on its own)
--> Magnetic status also disables the non-weapon abilities or auras of afflicted targets for the duration.
2) Sinew removed (all Ancients classed Fossilized), universal Robotic modifier shared between Grineer/Corpus tech (Grineer machines having Ferrite armor while Corpus machines utilize Shields), no more than 2 Flesh types in all (one for Infested, one for everyone else)
3) Armor types between factions are more unified – Infested Chargers have residual Ferrite Armor from their days as Grineer soldiers, Corpus Crewman have Ferrite Armor modifiers on their helmets, Mutalists have Robotic modifiers, etc.

Shield Gates: As suggested by EmptyDevil, damage that completely depletes shields cannot overflow into health, unless the damage partially ignores or has unique interactions against shields.

General ability changes: 
1) All "First Precept" skills (Sonic Boom, Null Star, Soul Punch, etc.) no longer have an animation lock and can always be cast while moving
2) "Hitscan" skills with precise targeting (Mind Control, Venom, Soul Punch, etc) can auto-target the nearest enemy to the player's cursor if within line of sight or a certain range of the player's focal point – more forgiving targeting Implemented!
3) Damage-focused abilities will deal additional damage equal to a percentage of the targets' maximum health (scaling with Power Strength); this damage is still affected by resistances and armor. For example, Fireball could do 400 damage plus 5% of a target's HP. (Does not apply to abilities that already scale damage like Shield Polarize or Antimatter Drop, utilities that deal incidental damage as a secondary effect like Bounce or Decoy, damage effects with unique utilities such as Molecular Prime or Rhino Stomp, or Finisher assaults like Bladestorm or Tentacle Swarm.) Coefficients vary per ability; the more theoretical targets affected per cast, the lower the coefficient.
4) Effects that heal allies will always heal companions for the same amount, so long as its owner is a viable target for the healing, at no additional cost.

Energy generation changes: In order to reduce "spiky" energy generation and ability spam in lootcaves -
1) Enemies now drop health orbs in place of energy orbs, and energy orbs now drop from lockers and crates at the frequency of health orbs.
2) Power Efficiency on all abilities mimics the manner in which Power Duration scales on toggled skills - instead of +50% Efficiency reducing the cost by 50%, it now increases the number of casts you can fire on the same amount of energy by 50%. (Combo effects, ie Landslide, still function as normal.)
3) All frames now have a base amount of energy regeneration. As with Energy Siphon, these effects are disabled while hard-toggled abilities are active.
4) Consumables now have a cooldown per player.

Augments (Rant)

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When augments were announced, the idea players were presented with was that each augment would shake up your playstyle; while fitting the name by not taking anything away, they could put an extra emphasis on a secondary function of an ability to encourage players to use it differently.
A powerful nuke like Antimatter Drop or Shield Polarize can become a method of defense; a crowd control like Undertow or Banish can become a backup support tool; a defensive skill like Link or Iron Skin can become a way to debuff enemies. New toys that players would gladly swap even a staple mod for, to expand their kits.

There's just one flaw with this design: abilities that don't do anything to begin with.
The difference between adding a support skill to Loki or giving that same skill to Ember, is that Loki has plenty of others to devalue this; Ember has none, but understands the value quite well.

What we need to focus on is that little word: "none".

So what does this mean?
Focus on building the foundation before you bring in the furnishings. Augments should never be used to bandaid fix a frame's problem; that's what Updates are for. If an ability is all but useless without an augment, that speaks toward the ability's designer, not the augment's.

Never use add-ons to 'fix' gameplay.

Ember

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Ember is the queen of revamps, if only because she receives so many. For a long time she was limited to flat damage effects and spamming stuns, leaving her poorly equipped to deal with endgame content compared to other frames. While her base stats gave her a nudge in the right direction, many players are still dissatisfied by the result.
I’ll admit that when her Fire Blast change was announced, I was quite excited; I had previously suggested in this very thread that Fire Blast be used to clear an area and hold the line. However, a very distinct order was presented for a particular reason: an innate burn effect should be in the ring because Ember players are used to overlaying rings of flame to catch foes. The present knockback wave actually pushes them out of these rings, which makes it difficult to take advantage of the ring itself if the enemy isn’t a melee trying to charge back in.
Recently, Ember got a much-requested buff to her World on Fire, removing the need for Duration to maximize its uptime. However, while her first three powers have been revamped to push her towards being a caster, her fourth power is an artifact of her original suicide-bomber iteration back when she had Overheat. The improvement to her armor was a start, but World on Fire's lack of synergy with anything but Accelerant makes her seem slightly schizophrenic. If DE truly wants Ember to thrive, they need to take a definitive stand on exactly what Ember is, rather than dancing on the line.
As with the phoenix, the wheel turns for Ember once more…

Suggested changes:
- Fireball now inflicts a stacking Heat DoT on the target, which can damage and inflict status upon enemies that come too close. If Fireball does not hit a target directly, a fire patch is created at the target area, a la Napalm Blasts. Still unaffected by Power Range or Duration.
- Fireball Frenzy applies its effects to allies within Fireball's initial blast radius.
- Accelerant also increases the damage of Heat-based combination elements (Gas, Radiation, Blast), but with reduced effectiveness. 
- Fire Blast deals damage over time throughout the entire circle of flames. Enemies will no longer attempt to avoid the ring of flames (a la Bastille or actual fire hazards). Circle of flames innately has 100% status chance, but the initial blast no longer inflicts knockback.
- Fire Fright is now “Blasting Zone”: Fire Blast creates a wave of heat, inflicting knockback and spreading the initial damage over a radius affected by Power Range.
- World on Fire replaced with “Rising Phoenix”: Ember conjures a firebird and transfers control to it, becoming immobile. The firebird has a large health pool (affected by Power Strength), flight with Archwing controls, and is able to use all of Ember's abilities while active. When the firebird expires, it explodes to deal damage in a wide radius, affected by how much health it lost. Toggled, unaffected by Power Duration, but the firebird gradually loses health over time and dies with Ember. Ember's threat is transferred to the firebird while active.
- Passive replacement: Instead grants bonus energy generation and Power Strength for each enemy she has ignited, up to a cap.

Just to get the tiniest bit side-tracked, Fireball is the only basic elemental attack that does not improve upon (like Freeze or Venom) or supplement (like Shock) the status it represents; rather, it simply uses the status to inflict a DoT. The radial burn is a minor callback to Overheat, but also improves the status to give some hint as to where Gas got it from.
Back on on point, while the change to Fire Blast seems redundant, it does have a key point to it. With it, players can forgo the augment to perform the stunlocking attack they used it for before, or combine it for a tool that can clear an area to mount a defense or give allies time to recover.
Additionally, Ember's main downside is that she has no choice but to use proximity with her opponents as part of her offense due to the radial nature of her skills; they tried mitigation, it didn't take. Rising Phoenix is intended as an answer to this, while also being more reliable to use than World on Fire. The advantage of the skill is that, as enemy output increases, it becomes more efficient to use as a standalone damage tool, as the construct will die faster and expend less energy for the same output; furthermore, it has a duration that is capped by Power Strength rather than Duration, increasing build potential.

Equinox

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Equinox is potentially the most complex Warframe we’ve ever had. She’s a unique hybrid whose ability to “mode-shift” into specialized forms gives her a large amount of variety; in terms of available utilities, her kit is “just fine”.
In terms of implementation, however, she has her issues.
For the most part, players who use Equinox will build her to specialize in one form and ignore the other. Some of us focus on Maim builds, some on Rest builds. We ignore the capabilities of the opposite mode of her kit except in dire circumstances, and we ignore the other abilities within the same mode because they’re considered situational or overpriced. Despite her entire theme focusing on “balance”, we end up with two completely separate frames, each reduced down to one button; not “the light in the darkness” offsetting “the darkness in the light”, but “the darkness” versus “the light”.
(The hilarious irony, in my mind, is exactly how the two polarized playstyles actually function: the “Yin” aspect of Taijitu represents passivity, yet players spam defenses in Night form in order to attack; the “Yang” aspect represents activity, yet players walk through missions in Day form bleeding people without even looking at them as their primary defense.)
Part of the problem, of course, is that Equinox is actively discouraged from switching by the mechanics of her powers. Her ultimate requires you to stay in one form as long as possible in order to charge up; her transformation skill has a lengthy cast time and forces you to start over. It’s understandable that she should have a “hybrid tax” to prevent from outpacing other frames, but the current implementation just penalizes switching at all. Even her Peaceful Provocation augment seems to push the same “stick to one form” agenda.
The goal here is to not only turn each “side” of her kit into a more cohesive single frame’s playstyle, but also to make switching between forms more compelling and worthwhile. Each side isn't simply a half of a whole, it's a complement.

Suggested changes:
- Transitioning to Day Form features a permanent increase to base speed, while Night Form has a permanent increase to base armor, but neither are affected by Power Strength.
- Metamorphosis now grants a diminishing bonus to speed when entering Night Form and a diminishing bonus to armor when entering Day Form. Swapping to either form also grants diminishing energy regen to Equinox. No longer cancels the effects of Equinox' toggled abilities; instead, each toggle remains active and swaps to the opposite form's version at no additional cost or cast time, but the benefits are suspended for the animation. Transition time reduced, and affected by Natural Talent. 
- Rage also jams affected targets’ weapons, momentarily stunning foes then disarming them for the duration. Rest instead creates a 5-meter wide stationary circle of moonlight at the target location, which will put any enemy who enters to sleep while the circle persists or until they receive enough damage; limit 4 circles, affected by rank.
- Calm & Frenzy reworked: Allies who linger within Rest's fields will be healed over time. Rage effect remains the same.
- Pacify instead applies a damage reducing debuff to enemies within range, affected by Duration; energy is only consumed each time an enemy receives the debuff, and its effects no longer fall off at range. 
- Peaceful Provocation replaced with “Hide & Heckle”: Provoke increases Equinox’ threat against enemies, while Pacify reduces enemy awareness of Equinox.
- Mend & Maim will each produce a stationary sphere when deactivated, splitting continuous instant healing or damage between occupants, up to the leftover maximum health absorbed or a period affected by Duration; limit 1 sphere at a time. Completing Metamorphosis will transfer the accumulated health pool to the opposite form, and instantly change the active sphere to the opposite form's iteration for the remaining duration/health pool. Maim no longer inflicts bleed, but health pool accumulation in both forms is also affected by damage taken by allies within range of the toggled effect.

The current idea is that the player is not penalized for swapping between support and offense, but rather encouraged to swap between the two forms to make up for each one’s flaws. The Day form is encouraged to beckon enemies close with Rage (and the replacement augment for Provoke) in order to cut them down with Maim, and has a stronger defense that requires Equinox to do more than bat an eye at the target, while still not being “perfect” to leave room for Night form. The Night form is less penalized in terms of cost efficiency, and more effective as a passive defender, whether she’s in the fray herself or amongst recovering teammates; the ability to place effects prematurely also means the Night form can be used to amplify the Day. Combining the two forms also allows you to lure enemies into traps or rapidly respond to changing circumstances.

Side note: Anybody else think Hydroid and Equinox's drop locations should be switched? It makes more sense for Equinox to drop from the planet with day and night cycles (so that Day Form parts drop during the day and Night Form parts drop during the night), especially since it can take actual dozens of runs to build her with the eight parts you'd need to collect. Being able to limit that pool just a smidge would help a lot.

Hydroid

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Hydroid is one of what we call "the RNG frames". While his skills are thematic and Undertow itself is unique, he suffers from having unreliable skills, particularly where his first and ultimate abilities are concerned. This leads to him having dull gameplay, where the challenge is primarily in waiting out the Duration timers of your abilities so that you can recast them with the prayer that they'll actually hit your target this time. It's generally agreed upon that Hydroid has some of the least engaging gameplay available, only compounded by the augment to Tentacle Swarm blatantly repeating Desecrate.
Part of his problem is that he doesn't have a well-defined gameplay "theme". While he is aesthetically a "pirate" (in the same sense that Oberon is a paladin, Nekros is a necromancer, Ash is a ninja, etc), it's hard to translate piracy into gameplay beyond cutlasses and pistols (which every frame has access to). Though one could simply give him a unique weapon with its own stance that lets him pull off both blocking and shooting at the same time, nothing in his kit really gives call for him to be melee-oriented, primarily as it would be disruptive to his core elemental theme; instead, he's half-merged with a sea monster.
While most of his kit would survive on minor tweaks, Tentacle Swarm needs something more thorough.

Suggested changes:
- Tempest Barrage is one-handed, and explosions within the radius are also affected by Power Range. Base damage is reduced, but is now affected by mods equipped to Hydroid's pistol. Hold-casting the effect will cause the spread radius to shrink, with a minimum radius equal to the size of individual cannon blasts. If Undertow is active, the barrage will automatically center itself on Undertow.
--> Augment - Soothing Rain: Tempest Barrage now heals allies struck by the explosions.
- Tidal Surge collects and continuously drags enemies caught in it for the remainder of the duration, only releasing and ragdolling them during the Slash portion. Can be cast while Undertow is active to relocate the puddle and all enemies inside.
- Undertow evicts affected enemies after a period affected by Power Duration. Other abilities may be cast by Hydroid while Undertow is active, and ability damage fired into the field by Tenno will deal damage to all enemies within, but will consume additional energy from Hydroid based on each enemy affected.
- Curative Undertow replaced with “Surface Tension”: Undertow instead creates a dome of water around Hydroid as long as he remains immobile, snaring enemies within but reducing weapon damage against all enemies and allies inside.
- Tentacle Swarm no longer summons tentacles at the targeted location; instead, the tentacles will protrude from and follow Hydroid, latching onto enemies Hydroid passes near, and can be de-activated by recasting the ability. Tentacles with enemies attached will strangle foes and bring the ones his camera faces into melee range, while unhindered tentacles will attempt to block incoming fire for Hydroid. If Undertow is active, tentacles will spread into formation around Undertow and toss snared foes inside after a period of strangulation, then seek out new nearby targets. Allied damage dealt to a tentacle will damage any enemies grappled by it.
- Pilfering Swarm is now limited to the creation of orbs, ammo and life support/batteries.
- Passive replacement: Damage dealt will also Soak enemies, increasing the effectiveness of some status effects: Ignited targets are also Blinded, Chill becomes Freeze, Electric attacks deal/chain increased damage, Poison will leave pools of Toxin damage on the ground.

The idea here is that Hydroid is equal parts seafarer as he is the beast that dwells within it. With the proper setup, you can transform yourself into a combination of Scylla and Charybdis.
Tentacle Swarm is no longer targeted; this is in no small part because its effect is redundant with Tempest Barrage at best, and each is only differentiated by their downsides at worst. Hydroid doesn't need two skills that do the same thing; what he needs is one skill that applies the same effect consistently. With any luck, expanding the explosion radius of Tempest Barrage to keep enemies locked down will suffice for snap ranged CC, and it will increase the emphasis on Tidal Surge for Hydroid's mobility to use Tentacle Swarm.
While some players would say that Undertow needs to be changed so that allies aren't hindered by it, I'm of the belief that it's the element in Hydroid's kit that should be expanded upon, as it is the most unique skill available to him. Using Undertow can compel a mode shift within the Hydroid, like how Bursa Moas shift between offense and siege modes - in this case, Pirate and Kraken modes.
Furthermore, Tempest Barrage is now the primary damage-dealer for Hydroid; it didn't make sense to have its interaction with Undertow be based on its damage and then focus on turning the ability itself into a CC. A barrage of cannon fire should be devastating! I decided to mark it as affected by Pistol mods because of the mental image of a pirate wielding a pistol in one hand and a cutlass in the other.

Side note: Anybody else think Hydroid and Equinox's drop locations should be switched? Earth may be the blue planet, but in Warframe, Uranus is the wet one.

Limbo

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Update 15.5 gave Limbo one very important adjustment: Allies can roll to deactivate Banish prematurely. Before this change, Limbo was seen as the biggest trollframe since Mag traded Pull with Valkyr. Of course, part of Limbo’s problem is that this update didn’t do quite enough; while it bandaged part of the problem, the Rift mechanic itself still prevents allies from lifting pickups or datamasses. Simultaneously, Update 16.3 locked players within the Rift out of using consoles – but enemies within the Rift still can.
Furthermore, the devs have agreed that Limbo has perhaps too many buttons to do the same job – three of them are different takes on Banish, while usage of Rift Surge is wholly dependent on his other abilities.
Part of the trouble is, Limbo doesn’t have a lot to do once he's inside the Rift; he's got a damage buff and... that's it. Since the Rift doesn't disallow abilities, even his allies get more mileage out of it than he does. For the King of the Rift, Limbo rather falls behind anyone who joins him there.
Our dapper Warframe is up for a trim and a haircut.

Suggested changes:
- Banished enemies are not able to access consoles outside of the Rift. Banishing an enemy who is inside Cataclysm expels them from Cataclysm. Hold-casting Banish (a la Quiver) will cause enemies within 5 meters of your target, affected by Power Range, to be Banished simultaneously; only your main target will be knocked down by this. Banish can be used to damage objects, such as grates and fans.
- Rift Walk merged with Rift Surge; damage bonus reduced.
--> Rift Torrent is instead transferred to Rift Walk.
- Rift Surge replaced with “Rift Gate”: Limbo creates a flat barrier at the target location (invisible to enemies) that displaces hostile projectiles into the opposite side of the Rift instead, enabling friendly fire. Upon activating or disabling Rift Walk, Limbo teleports to the Gate, confusing attackers temporarily. One Gate may be active at a time.
--> Augment - Eviction: Banishing an enemy will send your target to the Rift Gate, confusing them.
- Cataclysm pulls pickups and consoles into the Rift, and does not cause allies to drop datamasses. Enemies inside Cataclysm are unable to leave the field on their own, and are pulled toward the center as the sphere shrinks.
- Being inside the Rift also removes collision against entities outside of the Rift, and switching Rift states will damage/ragdoll any objects or enemies you "materialize within" on the destination plane. Impact damage from the Rift state inflicts guaranteed Impact status, unless overwritten by knockdown.
- Passive replacement: Limbo is more Evasive at all times; enemies have a higher chance to miss him entirely, regardless of what state he is in.

The overall idea is that Limbo uses his abilities strategically to lock down foes using the Rift itself. The redundant effects within his existing kit are intended to give you fluidity in execution, but don’t really let you play with the mechanic. Each of the types of Banishment is the same at its core, but now they all have different uses to encourage using more than one.
One of the big complaints about Limbo is that he has very little protection from enemies while inside the Rift. The trouble with this statement is that the Rift itself is intended as a form of protection, eliminating threats from the battlefield by placing their relevance in your hands. Rift Gate takes this statement to the literal extreme, allowing you to trick enemies into shooting their allies within the Rift, while giving you conditional avoidance once you’re inside.
While it makes sense that Banish limits the access of objects into the Rift, Cataclysm creates an area of Rift that should pull everything inside indiscriminately. Combined with the existing ability to disable Banish, this should reduce hostility towards Limbo players.
Something I've seen mentioned a lot for Limbo, are suggestions that Rift Surge should be his passive, or that he should receive less damage in the Rift - something along the lines of "give me incentive to be in the Rift". While the reasoning for these suggestions is understandable, it fails to grasp the meaning of "passive effects" when Limbo needs to spend energy to activate it.

Nekros

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It finally happened. After 3 years, Nekros' Desecrate was altered for the first time (no, adding an automated limiter to spam behavior so you won't waste energy when there aren't corpses doesn't count), upgrading him from a mindless 3-spamming drone to a semi-functional Necromancer, closer in essence to the archetype that he was advertised to fulfill.
However, Desecrate still has one major flaw: its effectiveness is still determined entirely by RNG. This isn't to say that other abilities within this game aren't, but it is one of the only abilities in the game that has a chance to fail in spite of your actions. I'll save the rant on reward-influencing abilities breeding toxicity for another day, but Desecrate is fundamentally built on the fact that it cannot ever be made to have a guaranteed effect, as that would keep it up longer and cause players to be passively rewarded for no additional input.
The rest of his toolkit was only lightly altered to accompany the modding changes the would bring about; many of his original issues remain. Minion AI has been cut down so much that Shadows’ most reliable use is as a mass Decoy, rather than a form of scaling damage. Terrify as a CC does its job, but makes it difficult to target enemies under its effects and take advantage of the armor debuff without applying the augment. Soul Punch is a blatant gimmick, a telekinetic blast for a frame who has no reason bearing one in the first place, far surpassed by Smite; it's unreliable in how many targets it can affect at once, and is reduced to a mere ragdoll as enemy level increases.
I agree that Nekros should be a support class, because the necromancer archetype has always been an unconventional one; whatever skills they have unrelated to raising the dead are typically geared towards debuffing enemies and increasing the effectiveness/survival of whatever they raise from the dead, each of which can splash over to their living allies. Their main form of output comes from whatever damage their minions deal (rather than spamming an attack key), which is great for a game like Warframe where enemy scaling can get truly ridiculous.

Edit 1/24/14 – TL;DR:

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Ten problems that Devstream #45 did not address about Nekros:

1. The “soul cache” mechanic on Shadows of the Dead forces Nekros players to restrict their killing blows to certain targets in order to make their Shadows worthwhile. Addressed in Specters of the Rail U2.1.
2. Shadows need an AI overhaul. They aren’t “dumb” so much as too smart for competence, seeking cover when they should be aggressive and patrolling areas their summoner has already left.
3. Shadows of the Dead, as a body-blocking tool, is a two way street; Nekros and his allies cannot see or shoot through Shadows, which just means they create clutter on the battlefield.
4. Despite being his “Oh S#&$” button, Nekros is locked out of casting Terrify an additional time while active, leaving him defenseless if another wave of enemies approaches. Addressed before release.
5. Of the many ways to decrease enemy armor, only one cannot approach 100% on its own within current Power Strength constrictions or be stacked to that point: Terrify. Addressed before release.
6. Enemies under the effects of Terrify sprint at full-speed toward the nearest exit, synergizing poorly with the armor debuff and making it harder to clean the slate for a second cast. Bandaged in U18.14 by the Creeping Terrify augment.
7. Soul Punch has virtually nonexistent area-effect compared to an ability like Smite or Pull, and does not provide sufficient benefits (without the augment) to justify being single-target like Banish or Rip Line. It's just a knockdown at high level, which each of those have and more.
8. Desecrate’s reliance on RNG forces it to be spammed for maximum effectiveness; this spam locks Nekros players out of using his other abilities or attacks, and makes it difficult to build the “soul cache”. Altogether, this promotes boring backline gameplay. Addressed in Specters of the Rail U2.1.
9. Desecrate does not synergize with the rest of Nekros’ kit; despite Shadows making him the one frame who can justify having a team to support even in solo mode, they can’t benefit from the loot his “support” provides (nor approach it if they could).

Finally, but most importantly,

10. Desecrate’s metagame benefits make the loot it provides more important to players than any other skill in Nekros’ arsenal; it doesn't even provide a strong benefit in the mission, but players tear each other apart over it because of the benefits it provides once they leave (many a group has fallen apart because someone didn't want to play a Nekros when the host was hunting a rare mod). Any changes to his other skills won't matter so long as he has to spam this skill, or build exclusively Power Range for the benefit of this skill alone.

Suggested changes:
- Soul Punch damage increases as the target's health gets lower. If cast directly on a Shadow minion, the minion detonates, dealing damage in a radius.
- Terrify staggers all affected targets upon activation, and slows them for an amount based on rank. Can be prematurely cleared by recasting the effect. 
- Creeping Terrify is now “Mask of Terror”: Nekros emits an aura after casting that causes nearby enemies to flee.
- Desecrate replaced with “Siphon Life”: Deals instant Viral damage to enemies in a cone in front of Nekros, then releases a pulse of radial healing from Nekros to allies (including minions and companions) based on accumulated damage dealt. High proc chance.
- Shadows of the Dead minions can be seen and shot through by players, a la Hall of Mirrors. (See "AI overhaul" under General for further details.) 
- Energy pool increased to 150->225.
- Passive update: Instead grants energy whenever an enemy or ally dies within range, rather than health.

With 18.5's release of Inaros, the idea of Nekros having a life drain effect is something of a hot button topic: Inaros can summon minions, and as Nekros was originally planned to have a life drain, this creates a noteworthy overlap. The way I see it, Inaros is intended as a front-line tank whose minions support him; a necromancer's role should be as a back-line support whose minions defend and damage for him. Inaros' life drains are intended to be a self-healing effect that happens to heal allies; Nekros' should be as an allied-healing effect that happens to heal him. So long as the effects serve entirely different functions in practice, the overlap is negligible.
"Why Viral damage?" Because it’s more effective against living enemies than Infested or Robots, and its proc gives the effect of actually sapping the target’s life force. Thematically, it also marks Nekros as the opposite of Oberon, a healer and defender of the weak - Nekros, the disabler and manipulator of the strong.
"But isn't this a bit drastic?" Yes, that's sort of the point. You'll also note that abilities like Fireball, Silence, Hysteria and the entirety of Ash, Rhino, Trinity and Mag's skillsets have been reworked as drastically in the past over several iterations, to the point you would not even recognize them compared to their releases – the same abilities in name only. I'm simply speeding things up and dropping the pretense.

Oberon

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Oberon represents something of a personal bias on my part. He was reworked in Update 14.5 to include several suggestions from this very thread, to improve his utility and put him on a tier of his own, a mid-point between Trinity and other damage classes.
However, while the original suggestions were put in almost to the letter, they avoided the spirit of the rework entirely – trying to make up for a lack of quality with quantity, which only served to clutter up his abilities, making them more complicated without providing a significant increase to his potency. Recent additions to the roster including Hydroid, Equinox and Nezha have made his support abilities look paltry (comparison to Trinity is simply unfair), and his brand of ability-based offense is outdated.
Originally, Oberon was advertised as a paladin (or perhaps paladin/druid hybrid), but he’s never really lived up to the title as much more than an offensive cleric, with poor scaling and structuring even on his supportive abilities. Renewal in particular has been a logistical nightmare; it’s virtually impossible to time using the skill due to its travel time, and the inability to precast it since it fades when a target reaches maximum health. It has a unique facet in the bleedout reduction, but the inverse scaling of Duration on the main effect actually makes the window of opportunity to utilize this reduction smaller, and the lack of effect on targets who are bleeding out means you are penalized for being late. If this ability was intended to force Oberon onto the front line, the devs picked the most arbitrary and convoluted way to pull it off.
It’s time for Oberon to “increase team survivability ... like a paladin” as he was always meant to.

Suggested changes:
- Smite strikes the target with a bolt from the heavens, inflicting Blind, Radiation/Impact status, and Radiation/Impact damage based on his melee weapon mods to the target and surrounding enemies within a small radius. No longer fires projectiles or inflicts Puncture status.
- Hallowed Ground replaced with “Guardian Oath”: Oberon increases his threat against surrounding enemies, compelling them to target him instead of his allies. Each enemy slain by Oberon under this effect will increase his maximum health, shields and armor based on a percentage of their own for the remainder of the Duration.
- Hallowed Eruption is now “Guardian Force”: Enemies killed by Oberon will release bursts of light, granting their health/shield/armor boosts to all nearby allies.
- Renewal no longer fires projectiles, increases bleedout or has an infinite distance; instead, Oberon periodically releases healing pulses over a distance affected by Power Range while toggled active. Allies within range also gain a flat amount of bonus armor from a percentage of Oberon's own, and are purged of all status effects. No longer has a maximum Duration, or ceases to affect players at maximum health. 
- Reckoning no longer inflicts Blind or guaranteed Confusion, or summons health orbs. Instead, survivors are debuffed for a Duration, causing any damage they deal to be dealt to them as Radiation damage, with a chance affected by Power Strength to inflict status.
- Base armor increased to match Frost and Rhino.
- Passive replacement suggestions:

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- Oberon releases a blinding flash to stun enemies whenever his shields are broken. Duration and radius are affected by the amount of shields lost since the last burst.

- Oberon has a flat bonus to damage-reduction when blocking with any melee weapon.

- Attacks blocked by Oberon with any melee weapon have a chance to blind the attacker.

First and foremost, Oberon's kit desperately needs to be streamlined, so that new players picking him up can understand his kit better. This means changing some of the "wispy" executions to increase ease of use, and toning down the reliance on status effects to be more organic and increase potency.
The idea with this is that Oberon is supposed to keep his friends close and his enemies closer. While he is not as strong of a support frame as Trinity (especially due to the constrictions of Power Range and the lack of energy provisions), he is a capable proactive defender in his own right, stunning enemies to take them down, increasing his own defenses and taunting foes to continue after him instead of anyone else.
As he is intended to be a competitive hybrid, Reckoning and Smite give him scaling damage, something worthwhile that Trinity can’t do. The major problem with Smite and Reckoning as they are on the live game, is that they both intend to do the same job, and are each cluttered to match the effectiveness of the other. This way, Smite will be a much more proactive offense, where Reckoning can be a reactive offense and proactive defense, with each having individual purposes to bolster his Oath effect.

Zephyr

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While a “Hawk” frame had always been on the infamous Design Council poll that spawned Nova, Nekros and Valkyr, Zephyr was originally inspired by a fan concept by the infamous Volkovyi. About midway through his thread, Volkovyi revamped Zephyr’s abilities with one emphasis in mind: air support. Volkovyi's Zephyr had an almost perfect kit for the role, everything from free flight to create distance, to rooting projectiles to constantly rain down fire on foes, to barriers against the ballistic attacks that could reach her – several of which were translated, in some form or other, when the gender-swapped version was officially released.
So why does DE's Zephyr disappoint? Some will say that it’s because an air support just isn't viable in certain indoor structures, since it gives her very little room to maneuver, but I completely disagree. In truth, it’s because she focused more on being maneuverable than on actually spending time in the air; her utility ends up taking a backseat to personal speed as a result. For Zephyr, as with Nekros above, I think we should take a step back and look at the presented concept, to remember what exactly what so inspiring about the class.

Suggested changes:
- Tail Wind no longer deals direct damage to enemies struck; instead, it now leaves a stream of hostile winds along Zephyr's path for a Duration, inflicting Slash damage to enemies who pass through. Effects merged with Dive Bomb: Aiming in a 90-degree cone beneath Zephyr while airborne will cause her to drop upon the targeted location at high speed.
- Dive Bomb replaced with “Wind Tunnel”: Zephyr continuously fires a cylinder of wind in front of herself, dealing low Impact damage with 100% status chance. Enemies to reach the end of the "beam" will be ragdolled out, while headshots will also inflict knockdown. While active, Zephyr cannot move and is immune to gravity (similar to Absorb), but can turn the beam with the camera.
- Turbulence no longer reduces enemy accuracy. Instead, the inner radius has a X% chance to harmlessly deflect/negate any projectiles, and an additional Y% chance to aim deflected projectiles at enemies within the outer radius. Both chances affected by Power Strength.
- Tornado no longer summons cyclones at randomly determined locations; instead, pressing Tornado will allow Zephyr to change the formation and behavior of cyclones summoned during the next cast (ie advancing wall; orbit current location; path outward and back a cross formation; or follow Zephyr from the ground), activated by holding the button, a la Quiver. In addition, enemies struck will be trapped inside each cyclone for the entire duration rather than ragdolling out of the top, and physical damage dealt to a cyclone is instantly split between all enemies inside of it.

First thing's first, Dive Bomb. It has long been called one of the most redundant skills in the game, giving her an additional gap closer when she already has the free-aimed Tail Wind. It takes her out of her element to use it, which wouldn't be such an issue if she had any trouble getting down in the first place, when her issue is really the opposite - not being nearly “floaty” enough to continue firing from the air. The addition of aim-gliding helps this some, but only for so long. Wind Tunnel can instead allow Zephyr to remain airborne while active.
Now, since I’m writing this (but not the above suggestion itself) up after Update 15.5, I'm also aware of another issue on the mind: Yes, Turbulence is awfully similar to Shatter Shield. You can read Volkovyi's thread to understand why the similarity, of course, since it long predated Mesa. Turbulence as it is now limits Zephyr to fighting within a set range from enemies – which just won’t do if she is to do any air-sniping.
The other changes are designed to bring more synergy to Zephyr’s kit. For example, Tail Wind’s ability to damage enemies in flight, while derived from Slash Dash, could also be transferred into her Tornado to deal damage to those she renders airborne

Everyone Else Ash-Mesa

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Note: This section primarily consists of minor tweaks, and revamps I didn’t consider terribly substantial. If you have more to say about your favorite frame being in here rather than up above (or off this list entirely), feel free to complain below.

Ash
- Shuriken gain a stealth modifier against unalerted enemies, and inflict a stagger. Throws an additional blade with Punch Through; this blade does not have homing capabilities, and moves linearly in the direction of your crosshairs.
- Smoke Screen also causes stunned enemies to suffer reduced accuracy for the duration.
- Teleport can be cast without a target, moving the player as close to the targeted location as Power Range allows. If a non-friendly target is selected, casting Teleport automatically begins a hastened finisher on the enemy - skip the elaborate weapon draw, and double the animation speed of the strike.
- Bladestorm can strike bosses multiple times for reduced damage.

Atlas
- Landslide may now be used on a Bulwark, causing it to collapse into a boulder and damage enemies struck based on the damage of Landslide.
- Tectonics' Bulwark no longer forms into a boulder when recast; instead, Tectonics will create an additonal wall, to a maximum defined by rank, up to 4. Additionally, the summoned Bulwark is now a physical object that can be climbed/stood upon and parkoured off of by Tenno; players can still run/roll/slide through the side of the wall as now. Bulwark size is affected by Power Range.
- Petrify no longer reduces the user's movement speed while active.
- Ore Gaze replaced with “Fossilize”: Allies within the affected area of Petrify receive an increase to base armor.
- Rumbler attacks increase Atlas' melee combo count, threat towards the Rumbler, and the damage of their death-explosions.
- Titanic Rumbler replaced with the Rumbled Conclave augment; outside of Conclave, the augment instead provides Atlas with bonus Armor while active, and attacks scale with equipped melee weapon mods.

Banshee
- Sonic Boom's damage now increases if enemies strike obstructions (ie Snow Globe), and can be cast without interrupting reloads.

Chroma
- Spectral Scream is treated as a weapon (a la Peacemaker) for the purposes of Vex Armor, Shooting Gallery, etc.; cone length and width increased by 50%. No longer slows Chroma or prevents him from jumping or aim-gliding. Effigy's attack speed is increased each time Spectral Scream deals damage.
- Afterburn reworked: Every second which Spectral Scream strikes a surface, it lays down an elemental patch dealing (25/50/75/100) additional periodic damage for (3/4/4/5) sec.
- Elemental Ward range increased to 20m, and now affects companions.
- Vex Armor also grants the user stagger resistance while active. Overshields allow stacking of Scorn.
- Effigy only consumes additional energy when it attacks; sentry's attack rate increased, and gains Decoy-level threat. Effigy may be used while airbone, and the sentry will continue to hover in place. Effigy will also receive the benefits of Vex Armor and act as an additional source of Elemental Ward while active.
- Passive update: Chroma's wings extend whenever airborne, granting an additional air-jump and innate Patagium effect. This effect is disabled whenever Effigy is active.

Excalibur
- Radial Javelin is now affected by the combo multiplier, which is also reset by this skill.

Frost
- Freeze Force affects anyone in Freeze's initial blast radius.
- Snow Globe can be penetrated from the front by friendly weapons with Punch Through. The globe appears to crack based on what percentage of health it has left, and a shattering cue can be heard if it breaks prematurely.
- Passive replacement: Frost resists any form of slow, making him unable to drop below his base running speed.

Ivara
- Quiver's Noise Arrow will cause alerted foes to target or chase after the location it strikes as if it was Ivara's last known location, if no Tenno-allied targets are visible.
- Prowl can only pickpocket orbs, ammo and life support/batteries from enemies.
- Artemis Bow now fires a horizontal spray when quickfired, and charging will narrow the spread of arrows with decreased gravity. Additional functionality needed to scale with Shotgun mods.

Inaros
- Desiccate interrupts all target animations in progress, and no longer prevents targets from receiving Finishers upon taking other sources of damage.
- Devour Augment: Devour can also be applied by Sand Shadows, equal to the remainder of their duration.

Loki
- Switch Teleport can target Explosive Barrels and Arc Traps. Enemies will continue shooting at Loki's original location as if he entered stealth; hostile targets can receive friendly fire during this period.
- Radial Disarm disables the abilities and flight of Mutalist Infested, Grineer Regulators and Hellions (as with Corpus Ospreys); additionally, all Grineer Machinery, Corpus Robotics or Mutalist Infested are damaged and stunned for a brief period.

Mag
- Pull no longer ragdolls and flings enemies, but instead knocks them down and attempts to drag them to the caster's feet. Casting Pull on a Magnetize sphere will supercharge the sphere's enemy-suction effect for a brief period, unaffected by Power Duration. Attempting to Pull enemies through Magnetize spheres will deposit them into the sphere.
- Greedy Pull replaced with “Disarming Pull”: Pull now has a chance to rip weapons away from affected enemies.
- Magnetize's suction effect can be overcome by player weapons on aimed shots.
- Polarize guarantees an extended Magnetic proc on affected targets, but calculates damage based on their non-procced Shields.
- Crush throws nearby enemies and shrapnel into any Magnetize spheres within range, and compels the spheres to automatically detonate as if their target died.
- Passive replacement: Mag has an increased Overshield cap and shield recharge rate.

Mesa
- Ballistic Battery benefits multiple shots within a short duration (affected by rank only) after activation, with a weakening bonus on each successive shot. Can be charged by blocking attacks with melee.
- Shooting Gallery also increases fire rate for primary weapons and sidearms.
- Peacemaker allows the user to move by rolling at an additional energy cost per roll (a la the Mesa's Waltz conclave augment). Alternate fire while Peacemaker is active will toggle Ballistic Battery.

Everybody Else Mirage-Volt

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Note: This section primarily consists of minor tweaks, and revamps I didn’t consider terribly substantial. If you have more to say about your favorite frame being in here rather than up above (or off this list entirely), feel free to complain below.

Mirage
- Sleight of Hand causes access panels to explode as soon as the enemy tries to use them, and renders the panel permanently unusable by enemies. Explosives (ie rockets) and traps placed by enemies will become inert towards Tenno and damage or seek enemies. Grineer Sensor Bars have the same effects as Corpus Laser Doors.
- Prism cast-time reduced.

Nezha
- Fire Walker's width is affected by Range mods. 
- Blazing Chakram's base healing radius increased. Excess healing is rolled over onto shields.
- Warding Halo's absorption period begins at the start of the cast animation rather than following.
- Divine Spears will impale flying enemies to the ground, a la Freeze effects.
- Consideration: Blazing Chakram damage scales with melee mods.
- Consideration: Blazing Chakram's number of bounces is affected by Strength, flight distance is affected by Range and speed is affected by Duration

Nova
- Null Star staggers targets on every hit.

Nyx
- Psychic Bolts replaced with “Telekinesis”: If no marks are active, Nyx consumes energy to mark a small group of enemies. When marks are active, all marked enemies are ragdolled and thrown to the location in her crosshairs, consuming the marks and no additional energy. Enemies thrown in this manner will damage and knock down any enemies at the impact site. Mind-controlled entities can be thrown but do not need to recover from being ragdolled.
- Disarming Bolts is now “Telekinetic Reach”: Nyx may activate and take control of an interactable object from a distance for a limited duration, including turrets.
- Passive replacement: Dealing direct damage to enemies has a chance to put them to sleep. This chance increases on inflicting a headshot.

Rhino
- Roar also compels enemies alerted to his presence within range of the effect to attack Rhino.
- Arcane Vanguard Helmet reduced from +25% Speed to +15% Speed.

Saryn
- Spores will now pop at least one spore if the target receives Toxin damage.
- Venom Dose applies its effects to all allies in a radius around a friendly target.
- Molt inherits Saryn's maximum health, armor and shield values and adds them to its own.
- Toxic Lash no longer has any effect on blocking with melee weapons. Instead, Saryn gains damage mitigation (armor?) at all times while Toxic Lash is active, regardless of equipped weapon. Additionally, Toxic Lash will restore energy to Saryn if Spores are popped by any means while active.
- Contagion Clouds now causes Saryn to emit a cloud of poisonous gas while Toxic Lash is active, dealing radial Toxin damage to nearby enemies.
- Miasma has a 100% status chance per tick against targets affected by Toxin and Viral procs. Damage per-tick halved, total number of ticks doubled.

Titania
- Tribute now has a lengthy Combo timer to reduce its energy cost. Thorns and Entangle values increased.
- Razorwing has an innate item vacuum, and Archwing boosters. Diwata base damage and supplemental stats increased.
- Base energy increased to 150->225.

Trinity
- Well of Life no longer requires allies to attack the target. Instead, damaged allies within range of a Well of Life target will automatically leech life from the target, transferring their damage taken to the target, up to a cap per-ally affected by Power Strength. Allies within range cannot be reduced below 2 health while their healing cap remains unspent.
- Pool of Life is now “Lifeblood”: Casting Well of Life on an ally grants them a percentage of life drain, with a capped amount of healing it can grant per player.
- Energy Vampire no longer restores energy in pulses. Instead, each pulse causes targets to discharge waves of electricity, stunning all nearby enemies. Killing a target affected by Energy Vampire causes them to drop energy orbs upon death. (See Energy Generation Changes under General.)
- Blessing now provides a buff to bleedout reduction to all allies in an infinite range, but still only burst-heals allies within the affinity range. No longer provides mitigation, but makes healed allies immune to damage and status effects for up to 2 sec, affected by rank only.
- Passive update: Trinity is twice as effective at reviving allies as other Warframes.

Valkyr
- Rip Line casts against the environment cause Valkyr to knock down enemies she passes through (ie dive kick).
- Warcry also compels affected enemies to attack Valkyr for the duration.
- Paralysis stun duration doubled.
- Prolonged Paralysis no longer affects stun duration; augment renamed.
- Hysteria no longer provides mitigation or deals damage to the player when it ends, but instead causes damage taken to be staggered into damage-over-time, at a maximum rate of damage per-second reduced by Duration, and lasting until all damage is dealt or the player dies.

Vauban
- Tesla staggers on every hit.
- Minelayer's Bounce grenades only proc for allies upon jumping on/into them, rather than instantly flinging players.
- Passive replacement: Vauban takes control of any hostile trap he destroys.

Volt
- Shock can be amplified by hold-casting the effect, increasing its cost by 50%, multiplying its damage (as well as Electric Shield and subsequent bursts from Discharge) based on Power Strength, and ragdolling enemies near the first target.
- Shock Trooper allows Shock to chain through allies who have not yet received its buff.
- Electric Shield no longer costs the player energy per-meter traveled or reduces player speed when carried, and the cost over-time is reduced; however, the cost will increase whenever the player Sprints. When electrified, the Shield has a 100% status chance on the first damage tick against a target.
- Discharge's damage cap is no longer reduced by mitigation. Arc damage from other affected enemies or Shock will not count towards the damage cap, only damage from a single instance of the effect.
- Base armor increased to 65, energy increased to 150->225 (to bridge the gap with Volt Prime).

Victories so far

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14.5.0: Oberon
"- Smite deals Radiation/Puncture [...] status chance increased to 100%. 
- Hallowed Ground is summoned under Oberon's feet and grants (stackable) damage reduction to allies standing in it. 
- Renewal is now a Toggled aura [...] Activating Renewal also instantly purges status effects from allies within range (but only on the first pulse) and increases recovery time."

15.2.0: Nyx
"- Mind Control prevents the target from receiving damage from Tenno while active, THEN deals the accumulated damage the target would have taken from Tenno when the effect ends."

15.9.0: Excalibur
"- Slash Dash increases Excalibur's melee combo count by 1 per enemy hit."

16.10.0: Rhino
"- Rhino Charge ragdolls affected targets, pushing them out of the way."

17.10.0 + 17.10.1: Saryn
"- Venom spores are more responsive to [..] melee attacks, and any unpopped spores on an enemy will detonate for additional damage upon the target's death." (Note: Melee synergy accomplished through "Toxic Lash".)
"- Debuffs can be transferred to Molt. When the Molt fades or is destroyed, explosion damage is increased by total damage it received." (Note: the former is accomplished through "Spore", while the latter is accomplished through both Spore and Miasma.)
"- Contagion [...] grants damage mitigation to the caster, and is capable of popping Venom spores.
- Reducing Power Duration for Miasma no longer increases damage dealt."

18.13.0: Volt
"- Electric Shield can be cast [...] to instead allow Volt to carry it, a la Odonata's Energy Shell."

Specters of the Rail 2.1: Nekros (Note that Nekros was one of the most iterative discussions in this thread, so it draws from a long history.)
"- Shadows of the Dead no longer have a maximum Duration; instead, Shadows lose a percentage of health every second, at a rate reduced by Duration. [Nekros also gained the ability to heal his minions, although this is not as a result of any change to Desecrate.]
- Toggling Shadows of the Dead active while minions from a previous cast remain active will summon additional minions from the soul cache up to the cap, scaling the cost accordingly.
- On suggestion from Taiiat: Recasting Shadows will summon all active Shadows to you."

Change Log - Update 18

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Nov 19, '16:
- Following much discussion, Nyx' Psychic Bolts have been replaced with Telekinesis. (Page 111-115)

Oct 27, '16:
- Updated Tempest Barrage on suggestion from Azamagon. (Page 109-110)
- Expanded the effect of Tentacle Swarm, and clarified Hydroid's revamped passive.

Sep 05, '16:
- Following some initial review, Titania has been added to the lower lists. (Page 104-105)

Aug 21, '16:
- Partially reverted change to Calm & Frenzy augment, on suggestion from ChronoEclipse. (Page 104)

Aug 19, '16: The Silver Grove
- Following much discussion, all of Equinox' abilities have been altered, and she has been moved to the upper lists. (Page 101-104)

Aug 10, '16: Specters of the Rail U2.1
- Removed the "Verbose" tag from Nekros' section and updated Shadows of the Dead's description, as well as peripheral abilities.

Jun 08, '16:
- Additional changes to Volt's Discharge.
- Replaced new Terrify augment.

Jun 05, '16:
- Updated notes for all of Volt's abilities.
- Updated Trinity suggestions for Blessing and Well of Life again. (Page 94)

May 30, '16:
- Modified Nyx's passive, and Psychic Bolts to synergize with the new effect.
- Modified Magnetize for quality of life.
- Changed suggestions for both Pull and Crush to interact with Magnetize.

May 29, '16:
- Added some additional notes for Mirage's Prism and Sleight of Hand.
- Increases potency of Trinity's passive.

May 28, '16:
- Altered or added passive suggestions for Ember, Hydroid, Mag, Nekros, Nyx, and Vauban.
- Removed Silence change in response to Banshee's passive.
- Added quality of life notes to Speed and Electric Shield.
- Clarified range changes to Blessing and Well of Life.

May 27, '16:
- Added Polarize to Mag's section in response to Update 18.13's stealth nerf. (Page 92)
- Modified earlier suggestion to Blessing in response to last-minute additions to Update 18.13.

May 26, '16:
- Altered suggestions for Trinity's Well of Life and Blessing, and Oberon's Renewal. (Page 92)
- Removed suggestion for Vampire Leech.

May 17, '16:
- Added two additional Passive suggestions for Oberon, one suggested by RunningTree3. (Page 91)

May 15, '16:
- Re-added status chance to Smite.
- Altered Hysteria to stagger damage instead of providing immunity. (Page 90)

May 14, '16:
- Updated descriptions for all of Oberon's powers, including reversion of Divine Intervention and replacement of Hallowed Ground. (Page 90)
- Updated description for Zephyr's Tail Wind. (Page 90)

Apr 05, '16:
- Moved Mag and Volt down from the upper lists, ahead of their upcoming reworks.
- Added suggestion for Artemis Bow, on suggestion from Azamagon. (Page 83)
- Added a translation for Rumblers' Conclave augment into a PVE augment, as a replacement for Titanic Rumbler. (Page 84)
- Emphasized taunt capability of Rumblers.
- Invested Peacemaker's Conclave augment into its PVE functionality. (Page 84)
- Removed suggestions for Shatter Shield, partly in accordance to the above.
- Added functionality for Ballistic Battery during Peacemaker.

Apr 03, '16:
- Modified suggestion for Equinox' Mend. (Page 82-3)
- Modified suggestion for Equinox' Pacify on urging of tnccs215. (Page 83)

Mar 25, '16:
- Added note for Warcry to taunt enemies.

Mar 15, '16:
- Following some initial review, Inaros has been added to the lower lists. (Page 78)
- Added a note to the General Ability Changes for group-healing effects to benefit companions.
- Given some discussion on the impact of Fleeting Expertise, consumables, and general ability spam on the design of the game and lootcaving for rewards/progression, a new section has been added under General: Energy Generation. (Page 77-79)
- Trinity's Energy Vampire has received some changes in accordance with the above. In accommodation, Greedy Pull has been replaced. (Page 78)

Mar 07, '16:
- In accompaniment of the former changes, an additional note was added to allow Soul Punch to clear Shadows of the Dead.

Mar 06, '16: Update 18.5
- Added passive suggestion for Nekros, updated Shadows of the Dead suggestion and additional phrasing.

Mar 02, '16:
- Added Rumblers and Titanic Rumbler suggestions to Atlas.

Feb 26, '16:
- Added some Effigy-centric synergy to Chroma's entries.

Feb 22, '16:
- Added passive suggestions and tweaks to Limbo and Hydroid, and additional tweaks to Saryn.
- Please excuse the current formatting, the recent Forum changes broke some formatting. Back in business.

Feb 15, '16:
- Re-added an old prioritization mechanic to Soul Punch, on request from ChronoEclipse. (Page 74)
- Tweaked Supercharged Speed, on suggestion from ChronoEclipse. (Page 74)
- Switched the effect of Supercharged Electric Shield with its baseline interaction of Speed.

Feb 13, '16:
- Modified notes on Tempest Barrage, Undertow, Tentacle Swarm and Pilfering Swarm. (Page 74)
- Added replacement augment for Curative Undertow and suggestion for a future Tempest Barrage augment.
- Modified note on Ivara's Prowl to be consistent with Pilfering Swarm.

Jan 31, '16:
- Following much discussion, Oberon has been reworked and moved to the upper lists. (Page 71-72)
- Replacement augments for Tentacle Swarm and Petrify have been added.
- Updated effect of Mend to include health orbs. (Page 72)
- Replacement augment for Toxic Lash has been added on suggestion by Azamagon. (Page 73)

Jan 22, '16:
- After much discussion, a replacement for Volt's Overload has been added, and Volt has been moved to the upper lists. (Page 71)
- Removed suggestion for Electric Shield augment in favor of making it a baseline interaction.
- Added EmptyDevil's "Shield Gating" mechanic to the General Changes section, with link to the original thread, in full support of his suggestion.

Jan 15, '16:
- Modified Oberon's Hallowed Ground to taunt enemies.

Jan 11, '16:
- Modified Oberon's Renewal in light of recent discussions. (Page 70)

Jan 02, '16:
- Nezha has been added to the lower lists, inspired by suggestions from Mogamu. (Page 68)
- Expanded on notes for Atlas' Tectonics and added Petrify after much discussion. (Page 69)
- Added passive suggestion for Chroma and expanded on notes to Spectral Scream and Effigy. (Page 69)
- Added passive suggestion for Trinity.
- Modified suggestion for Zephyr's Tornado to be more predictable, inspired by Ivara's Quiver.
- Cleaned up some redundancies in Excalibur and Hydroid's suggestions.
- Expanded on suggestions for Mag's Pull, Bullet Attractor and Crush.
- Added stagger to Limbo's Cataclysm and augment suggestion for Rift Gate.
- Expanded on note for Limbo's Banish for AoE targeting, following a suggestion by Uzenvard.

Dec 12, '15:
- Moved Mag to the upper lists, complete with blurb to highlight her main issues.

Dec 07, '15:
- Added a note about Ivara's Noise Arrow, on suggestion from taiiat. (Page 68)
- Added a note about Ash's Smoke Screen in light of ongoing discussions.

Dec 06, '15: Update 18
- Removed the note about Iron Skin in light of Rhino's update.

Nov 05, '15: Update 17.10
- Saryn's section has been altered and moved to the lower lists following her rework.

Oct 11, '15:
- Following his buff in 17.6.2, Atlas has been added to the lower lists. (Page 63-64)

Oct 02, '15: Update 17.5
- Updated notes concerning Hysteria, Mend, and Tempest Barrage.

Sep 23, '15:
- Altered suggestions for Hallowed Ground and Renewal. (Page 63)
- Added replacement augment suggestion for Hallowed Eruption.

Sep 16, '15:
- Altered description for Limbo's Rift Gate suggestion.
- Changed note for Sonic Boom to deal damage along the levels of Snow Globe.

Sep 04, '15:
- Added suggestion for augment to Siphon Life. (Page 62)

Aug 29, '15:
- Added note for Equinox's Pacify, on suggestion from FelisImpurrator. (Page 61)

Aug 23, '15:
- Added augment suggestion for Saryn's Allure.

Aug 21, '15:
- Created a section in the upper lists for Hydroid, to highlight flaws within his kit.

Aug 19, '15:
- Upon careful consideration, Equinox has been added to the lower lists. (Page 59-60)
- Added EchoesOfRain's suggestions for Zephyr. (Page 59)

Aug 01, '15: Update 17
- Frost moved to the lower lists while his recent changes are evaluated.
- Chroma's Toxin Ward note removed.

Jul 25, '15:
- Added Azamagon's suggestion for Shuriken. (Page 57)
- Added FelisImpurrator's suggestion for Spectral Scream. (Page 57)

Jul 09, '15:
- Added suggestion for Shield Polarize to detonate off allied shields.
- Added suggestion for Bullet Attractor to be toggleable, as well as aimed.

Jul 01, '15:
- Added "fire patch" and stacking damage to Fireball's description, on par with suggested changes to Freeze.
- Un-simplified note for Fire Blast (Jun 25 revision); Blasting Zone reintroduced.
- Added early suggestion for Elemental Ward's Toxin effect replacement post-Stamina removal. (Page 56)

Jun 26, '15:
- Altered Tornado's note to follow enemies instead of the previous suggestion to be aimed.
- Altered Tentacle Swarm's note to create a consistent formation on-cast.
- Added a new Passive suggestion for Frost.

Jun 25, '15:
- Added a note to Hysteria to be affected by mods in the same manner as Exalted Blade. (Page 55)
- Simplified the note for Fire Blast.
- Removed Rhino Charge note in response to his rework.

Jun 17, '15:
- Updated Excalibur's section in light of the release of his rework.

Jun 12, '15:
- Expanded Limbo's section and added it back to upper echelons.
--> Introduced Rift Gate replacement of Rift Surge (merged with Rift Walk).
--> Increased CC potential of Banish and Cataclysm.

Jun 06, '15:
- Added a note about threat to Ember's Rising Phoenix.
- Updated Nekros description.

May 22, '15
- Added a suggestion by FelisImpurrator for Bladestorm. (Page 53)
- Added a note about Tentacle Swarm's targeting. (Page 54)

May 03, 15:
- Altered suggestion for Renewal, in response to Noble_Cactus' and taiiat's commentary. (Page 50)
- Added new suggestion for Iron Skin.
- On request from MixterFox, Chroma's Elemental Ward also includes a note to affect companions. (Page 52)

Apr 28, '15:
- Removed suggestion for Despoil replacement.

Apr 24, '15:
- After recent discussions and revelations, Elemental Ward: Toxin's note has been removed. (Page 51)

Apr 13, '15:
- Scrapped Typhoon replacement for Dive Bomb, reverted to Gale Force.
- Expanded Ember commentary on Rising Phoenix.

Apr 10, '15:
- Simplified Soul Punch suggestion and called for a debuff increase to Terrify.
- In response to today's devstream, all Super Jump suggestions have been removed and Radial Javelin's suggestion is simplified. The rest of Excalibur's list will be maintained in the hopes of implementation following his rework.

Apr 09, '15:
- Added a note for Overshields to Vex Armor.
- In response to recent forum discussions about Update 16.3's nerf to Limbo, reversion is recommended.

Apr 08, '15:
- Clarified Typhoon as a one-handed cast. (Page 49)

Apr 03, '15:
- Increased range on Spectral Scream and Elemental Ward, on request from Endrian. (Page 48)
- Added stagger immunity to Vex Armor based on the same suggestion.
- Increased Effigy threat.

Apr 02, '15:
- After much deliberation, Chroma has finally been added to the lower lists.

If you have any adjustments of your own to add to the list, or would like to argue about what's already there, feel free.

If you think "everything is fine as it is", this is clearly not the thread for you.

For Ember: Love the ideas for her kit and especially the rising phoniex proposal, however, in my opinion it would be difficult for a frame to survive while immobile. Why not make it follow the user similar to duality and attack nearby enemies while having a drain scale similar to equinox to compensate and would be affected by power strength and inversely by power duration, but duration would prolong status effects and increase the duration of abilities used plus initial duration(Mod/unMod)

For Equinox: Overall, sounds difficult to implement. Really hoping for this though.

[(PSN)TH3NAML3SS]

On 1/4/2017 at 0:09 PM, Landpaddle said:

At the moment, Titania works best as a DPS frame oriented predominantly around her fourth ability, Razorwing. This stems from several factors, namely:

• A small suite of survivability powers in the form of her 2--Tribute's evasion buff stacks--and immediate protection from harm with her 4, Razorwing.
• Long casting times for relatively ineffective 1-3.
  • Natural Talent is almost mandatory for a debuff build.
• Low effective range of abilities without reducing Power Strength.
• The need to spam her 1-3 for maximum effect, almost as much as old, pre-rework Desecrate Nekros.
• Unreliable nature of her 1 and 3 and lack of synergy between powers.
  • You cannot milk a buff via Tribute from an enemy that is affected by her 1, Spellbind.

I agree with all of the changes you suggested except for reducing the cost of Spellbind, ironically because I disagree with the premise that Titania works best as a DPS frame. She works best as a CC frame, but happens to be able to do some damage with Razorwing. With max Range and 83% duration Titania's Spellbind has a 12 meter radius, and 30 second duration making it one of the cheapest means of stat agnostic CC in the game. At the same time Lantern has a 50 meter radius and a 46 second duration, shutting down vast swathes of enemies, again regardless of level or capabilities (if it worked consistently) - you don't need to spam it. Ostensibly, she can crowd control better than every frame save for Nova and Nyx on very little energy making that her apparent primary role.

 

That said, the changes you suggested would improve her ability to CC while in Razorwing, which is exactly what she needs to make that ability more worthwhile to use, and I think closer to what the frame was intended to do.

[EpicBred]

What I always say is: remove the cap! All frames need to somewhat scale infinitely, along with enemies, like nyx and loki.

Nidus: He shouldn't have a mutation stack cap, you should be able to have infinite stacks, but the bonuses he gets per stack need to be lower. If these "bonus-numbers per stack" are chosen right, he will never do too high or too low damage.

 

Chroma: Again, remove the max armor he can get from vex armor, but he shouldn't get too much armor from every enemy hit. Also, in late endgame, every hit one-shots chroma before he can even build up his armor. So what I say is every time you take a hit while vex armor OR his 2 (forgot name) is active, it should add to the timer for how long the ability is active. For example: everytime you get hit while in vex armor 0,5 seconds (maybe less) will be added to the duration. So if you manage it right and get hit enough youre vex armor (and 2. ability) should be always active and the armor you get scales with the enemy damage. The amount of armor per hit should be strength based and the additionsl time duration based.

 

Excalibur: Since you cant use bodycount on exalted blade and therefore bloodrush is kind of useless, its damage is capped and outclassed be every other melee weapon with bodycount + bloodrush. So I would just say give exalted blade access to body count + blood rush. With its energy waves it could build the combo counter pretty quickly. Exalted should be more powerful than standard melee weapons. They could also make critical chance/damage and status also scale with a stat like power reach, since these stats are pretty low at base.

[tnccs215]

4 minutes ago, EpicBred said:

What I always say is: remove the cap! All frames need to somewhat scale infinitely, along with enemies, like nyx and loki.

Nidus: He shouldn't have a mutation stack cap, you should be able to have infinite stacks, but the bonuses he gets per stack need to be lower. If these "bonus-numbers per stack" are chosen right, he will never do too high or too low damage.

 

Chroma: Again, remove the max armor he can get from vex armor, but he shouldn't get too much armor from every enemy hit. Also, in late endgame, every hit one-shots chroma before he can even build up his armor. So what I say is every time you take a hit while vex armor OR his 2 (forgot name) is active, it should add to the timer for how long the ability is active. For example: everytime you get hit while in vex armor 0,5 seconds (maybe less) will be added to the duration. So if you manage it right and get hit enough youre vex armor (and 2. ability) should be always active and the armor you get scales with the enemy damage. The amount of armor per hit should be strength based and the additionsl time duration based.

 

Excalibur: Since you cant use bodycount on exalted blade and therefore bloodrush is kind of useless, its damage is capped and outclassed be every other melee weapon with bodycount + bloodrush. So I would just say give exalted blade access to body count + blood rush. With its energy waves it could build the combo counter pretty quickly. Exalted should be more powerful than standard melee weapons. They could also make critical chance/damage and status also scale with a stat like power reach, since these stats are pretty low at base.

oh look. Powercreep. How nice.

Does changes would massively benefit exclusively frames with cumulative mechanics. Every other would be left in the dust.

If there is something warframw doesn't need, is a buff to Vex Armor, Exalted Blade, and Nidus himself.

 

Edited January 7, 2017 by tnccs215

[EpicBred]

22 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

oh look. Powercreep. How nice.

Does changes would massively benefit exclusively frames with cumulative mechanics. Every other would be left in the dust.

If there is something warframw doesn't need, is a buff to Vex Armor, Exalted Blade, and Nidus himself.

 

These were examples that came to my mind. Both nyx and loki are at this level and I think all frames should be up there. What I wrote above was my idea of how you could bring these frames to that level. The further you go in enemy level and difficulty, the more a team depends on their frames specific roles. For example: a tank in high level is there to draw aggro and take the damage away from his team mates on to himself. Thats his specific role and because he is tank and not a dd, he can only take damage and not kill the enemies. For that he needs a damage dealer. This damage dealer can kill the enemies, but he doesn't have much defense, so he depends on the tank which draws the enemies attention away from him.

Loki and and nyx have damage which scales infinitely, great crowd control AND defense (well nyx's 4, loki has invisibility and decoy). That is powercreep. I actually have to correct myself now, I dont want all frames at nyx's and lokis level, those should be brought down a bit, but I think all frames should be able to rely on their roles and actually be good in these roles, always.

[Aearie]

On 1/7/2017 at 11:14 AM, EpicBred said:

These were examples that came to my mind. Both nyx and loki are at this level and I think all frames should be up there. What I wrote above was my idea of how you could bring these frames to that level. The further you go in enemy level and difficulty, the more a team depends on their frames specific roles. For example: a tank in high level is there to draw aggro and take the damage away from his team mates on to himself. Thats his specific role and because he is tank and not a dd, he can only take damage and not kill the enemies. For that he needs a damage dealer. This damage dealer can kill the enemies, but he doesn't have much defense, so he depends on the tank which draws the enemies attention away from him.

Loki and and nyx have damage which scales infinitely, great crowd control AND defense (well nyx's 4, loki has invisibility and decoy). That is powercreep. I actually have to correct myself now, I dont want all frames at nyx's and lokis level, those should be brought down a bit, but I think all frames should be able to rely on their roles and actually be good in these roles, always.

Just putting an infinitely scaling mechanic on every frame wouldn't solve the problem, it'd just make a new problem. Now the dev team has to deal with scaling enemies AND players, and make that balanced. And really, if you are going to make each frame scale infinitely along with enemies... why bother having enemy scaling at all? They might as well be at the same level all the time.

Before we can start thinking about giving every frame scaling mechanics, enemy scaling needs to be fixed first. Then we can adjust the frames from there.

[Endless_Destruction]

15 minutes ago, Thursley said:

Just putting an infinitely scaling mechanic on every frame wouldn't solve the problem, it'd just make a new problem. Now the dev team has to deal with scaling enemies AND players, and make that balanced. And really, if you are going to make each frame scale infinitely along with enemies... why bother having enemy scaling at all? They might as well be at the same level all the time.

Before we can start thinking about giving every frame scaling mechanics, enemy scaling needs to be fixed first. Then we can adjust the frames from there.

Before enemy scaling can be fixed, DE needs to figure out a desirable TTK. They need to figure out whether they want a game where we are demigods, slaughtering horde after horde, or a game where we have to work hard for every kill. They need to figure out what kind of game they want, so they can figure out a reasonable TTK for that game, then balance scaling around that.

Anyways, on the subject of Warframe improvements- I think I figured out another potential way to change Ember's World on Fire for the better: WoF does less damage, possibly damage proportional to health, but affect every single enemy in range, and gives an effect called "ashen." Ashen enemies, burned up, now have the consistency of ash, and are very vulnerable to punch through. Weapons with even no punch through equipped can shoot through any number of ashen enemies in a row with a single shot. This will give Ember her place in high level missions without making her too powerful, and with reined in damage, will require more interactive gameplay.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Really like everything about Hydroid's listed changes (btw, the Tempest Barrage is currently benefiting from +range on its projectiles as significant -range leads to needing virtually direct hits for knock down while +range has enemies that are noticeably clear of the impact point getting floored as well). I'd kinda miss Corrosive Barrage for beating up on the Grineer (no real need for CP with it) but with 20%-30% innate status chance and benefiting from mods on my secondaries, I can't say it'd be much losst (knockdown+armor shred+slow+heals allies over an enormous area in an off-hand cast? Sign me the F*** up). Oh, would multishot mods affect Tempest Barrage (more projectiles falling at once, though still distributed within the selected CoF)?

 

However I'm kinda worried about the changes to his 4:

- Tentacle Swarm no longer summons tentacles at the targeted location; instead, the tentacles will protrude from and follow Hydroid, latching onto enemies Hydroid passes near, and can be de-activated by recasting the ability. Tentacles with enemies attached will strangle foes and bring the ones his camera faces into melee range, while unhindered tentacles will attempt to block incoming fire for Hydroid. If Undertow is active, tentacles will spread into formation around Undertow and toss snared foes inside after a period of strangulation, then seek out new nearby targets. Allied damage dealt to a tentacle will damage any enemies grappled by it.

 

His 1 and 4 already cause quite a bit of visual clutter, and with those tentacles protruding from him, it seems likely to cause some pretty annoying problems when it comes to aiming. When it comes to tentacles protruding from Hydroid, how many do you envision coming out of him, and how much screen-space do you imagine them taking up? That's the only concern I have with it, tbh. I only use it for tying up Arctic Eximus anymore (as their bubbles prevent knockdowns from Tempest Barrage these days).

 

Oh, and absolutely 100% right there with you for swapping Hydroid and Equinox's drop positions. Well, there is the little hiccup where running Vay Hek takes *lot* longer than Tyl Regor.

[Landpaddle]

I approve of the suggested changes to Nyx's 2--provided there's a reasonable range limit and energy cost per mark to prevent it from turning into spammable long-range Blast-modded Sonicor--but I think the passive one needs more careful consideration.

Beyond the CC potential, Telekinesis would finally provide a means to *directly* control all manner of friendly entities--from launching specters trailing behind to the forefront to sponge fire, to tossing a lone mind-controlled Bombard into a fray of comrades to do your dirty work. It'd give more purpose to the Mind Freak augment as well, since more control over your minions would provide more incentive to spend the time and energy to cast Mind Control in the first place.

The revamped passive, on the other hand, would only be balanced on the condition that there is only a very low percentage chance to proc, that it scales with fire rate, that it works with the same conditions as Ivara's sleep arrows--otherwise, faster-firing weapons with punch through would turn into sleep-sprayers, possibly trivializing huge swathes of content without even using Nyx's actual energy-dependent abilities.

---

Instead of putting enemies to sleep with direct damage, consider giving her one of these more boring but easier to balance passives:

1) Immunity to radiation procs. Nyx controls minds, so why should she be susceptible to being confused into friendly fire? For added spice, you could add a set wide aura around Nyx wherein teammates are also immune to rad procs for rule-of-cool psychic reasons, providing some niche but dependable use in radiation cloud sorties.

2) A passive, weaker version of Quick Thinking. Since Nyx is a caster frame, most people are probably going to spec into a reasonably large energy pool and efficiency. To complement this, and to build the idea of Nyx as a hybrid CC/tank unit, you could provide her with the equivalent of a low-rank Quick Thinking by default to encourage more thoughtful use of energy. This would still leave her hosed after a magnetic proc or when there's Energy Leech Eximuses around, but it would at least provide a baseline of defense if you don't pop Absorb in the splitsecond before instant death while on the move in higher-level missions.

---

I'm also skeptical of the present incarnation of that Telekinesis augment suggestion--it appears too vague and situational. Would Nyx still be vulnerable while commanding that interactive object? Would the commanded object draw aggro from enemies, or would it alert them to your location? Would that reach affect the effective HP of the target, or would certain objects like turrets be destroyed with ease and ramparts be basically invulnerable? It's a cool idea, and I'm not averse to more augments that really encourage a new playstyle, but I'm more dubious about how often that would actually come into play.

The only real use I could foresee for that augment is in sorties where you're limited to a specific weapon, remotely manning a rampart to circumvent that limitation. Even then, the damage the rampart deals to sortie-level enemies is somewhat onerous due to armor scaling, enhanced shield conditions and no elemental bonuses.

To be of enough use in enough situations to warrant the mod slot, that augment would have to:

1) Automatically control Ramparts and turrets that the ability is cast upon without requiring any other manual babysitting. This would allow you to focus on staying alive and opens up the opportunity to control multiple turrets/ramparts at once. Additionally, these controlled units should draw a small range of aggro until they're destroyed or until the effect wears off, whichever comes first.

2) Extend to things like alarm panels, bursas, and possibly buttons. There's always a couple situations where getting to a Spy vault panel that's in view or a panel to disable the alarm gets you in harm's way, so to be able to handle those remotely could provide a noticeable benefit in a lot of mission types. This would also synergize well with Assimilate Absorb, since you wouldn't have to pop that bubble and put yourself in a vulnerable position to remotely hack a Bursa mid-combat.

---

I was careful not to suggest anything that would dramatically shift where Nyx stands as a frame in terms of use and power, and I hope these suggestions and concerns have provided some food for thought. Let me know if you personally think they are grounded or whether the present Nyx adjustment suggestions in the original post are better. I'd love to hear others' takes on what would balance fun and a reasonable degree of effectiveness for this frame.

[Archwizard]

Uuuugh been almost a month since I last responded to this, I am just the worst aren't I.
Fret not, I have not died.

There isn't much to discuss in recent Warframe news - the Bard frame has all of her abilities under wraps still (the fact that Scott made mention that all of her abilities were scrapped following the holiday break to be replaced with a Vauban-esque ability pool does not bode well; I like the idea of the step sequencer but I worry too much of her significance will revolve around it, to the exclusion of a decent kit), and no word has been made of Limbo's rework other than what we already know: He'll be able to dodge into and out of the Rift at-will as a passive ability.

If I've missed some significant update (I haven't been reading many of the recent patch notes since the Hema debacle started...), please inform me.

On 1/4/2017 at 0:09 PM, Landpaddle said:

-snip-

Definitely seeing strong points in here, with one point of contention.

Having Razorwing reduce the cost of abilities. Keep in mind that, as long as Razorwing has its own upkeep cost, this really just comes out to subtracting the cost of maintaining Razorwing from the abilities themselves. Sounds great, but why ever turn Razorwing off?

On 1/5/2017 at 7:03 PM, (PS4)USmarshall17 said:

For Ember: Love the ideas for her kit and especially the rising phoniex proposal, however, in my opinion it would be difficult for a frame to survive while immobile. Why not make it follow the user similar to duality and attack nearby enemies while having a drain scale similar to equinox to compensate and would be affected by power strength and inversely by power duration, but duration would prolong status effects and increase the duration of abilities used plus initial duration(Mod/unMod)

Bearing in mind that the ultimate replacement may be on its way out the door since feedback on it has primarily been poor...

That's pretty much the intended weakness of the ability. Ember is a frame who advertises a high amount of CC, and a lot of the changes to her kit in the OP actually emphasize survivability, while playing on the odd mixture of mobile and immobile elements she has. The reason it doesn't have Duality-like elements is for the purposes of control, since AI's ability to follow commands is questionable at best and nonexistent in 90% of cases at worst; half the point of the ability is for Ember to be able to safely apply effects at long range without having to go in herself.

Now something that might work better is something more along the lines of Anti-Matter Drop or Elytron's Warhead, but then you might have difficulty guiding projectiles if it fires any off (ie Fireball). Ideally yes, you'd be using a Nidus-like system where you both aim at the same spot when you fire, but keep in mind that that same reticule would be directing the bird too.

... Unless Fireball changed while it was active so the phoenix dive-bombed the target instead... Hmm. Something worth considering as an alternative to both, actually.

On 1/4/2017 at 0:41 PM, TGKazein said:

I simply suggest having Razorflies regeneration come from holding down 4 like Inaros' mechanic.

Wondering if that's even possible, considering that the effect already is a toggle... I can't see why it wouldn't be though. Of course, it would probably have to incur some type of additional cost on Titania, and if the effect isn't instant (like Inaros') then I'm not sure what's to prevent a player from simply dropping Razorwing for a moment and turning it back on if it would be faster.

On 1/10/2017 at 4:09 AM, TheGrimCorsair said:

-snip-

Keep in mind that the augment suggestion was written before we had Corrosive Barrage, and was added mostly to have a replacement for Curative Undertow in the healing department.

I figure Multishot would create more of the bursts per tick while Fire Rate will increase the number of ticks within an equal timespan. Effectively speed up the effect without reducing the duration.

How many tentacles definitely varies by execution. I imagine something a bit Ursula-esque where the tentacles come out around waist level, droop along the floor and grab enemies depending on range. I'm thinking between 4-8 tentacles maximum, potentially varying with rank or Power Strength.

On 1/15/2017 at 0:06 AM, Landpaddle said:

-snip-

The passive suggestion is definitely a placeholder, but it's made under the belief that literally anything would be better than the version we have now, as the present version breaks the effectiveness of two of her abilities while only adding realistic benefit to one.

Not sure about either of those replacement suggestions. Radiation Hazard is literally a Sortie hazard; if Nyx was just immune outright, everyone would just go Nyx for it (and the effect would see literally zero use outside of that or traps, because no enemy naturally deals Radiation damage). I feel like a variation on Quick Thinking is already present in her Absorb ability ever since they added the increasing cost for high damage intake, and especially the augment.

Your ideas for Telekinesis' augment are neat and definitely worth discussing though, and I think they're right along with what the original poster suggesting the augment had in mind.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Archwizard

[Landpaddle]

On 1/29/2017 at 2:48 AM, Archwizard said:

Definitely seeing strong points in here, with one point of contention.

Having Razorwing reduce the cost of abilities. Keep in mind that, as long as Razorwing has its own upkeep cost, this really just comes out to subtracting the cost of maintaining Razorwing from the abilities themselves. Sounds great, but why ever turn Razorwing off?

The reason I'd advocate for that ability being active most of the time is that Razorflies are SO useful for staying alive. The aggro generation is invaluable, and although it's not immediate and limited to 6 flies, you often have enough time to fly about with only the occasional recast without every lancer or crewman blasting you out of the skies. It's also why I recommended making Diwata swings automatically refresh your Razorfly count by 1 or 2 each time--the cost of recasting Razorwing to spawn more is greater than the time it would take to just swing a blade a few times, not to mention the loss of the 50% evasion buff in that out-of-4 timeframe.

In short: You really can't survive well without full reliance on her 4 at present, and her abilities need to be competent enough to justify the cost over more time being slippery in Razorwing form. At the moment, I genuinely can't justify using anything but her 4 and 2 in most cases, and Tribute only for the Dust evasion buff, since it's applied to oneself and doesn't require you being in close proximity to hostiles, which you often won't be since you're trying to get Razorflies to draw aggro instead. Why even have proximity-dependent debuffs like that when the kit outright encourages you to take to the skies and stay away to live?

On 1/29/2017 at 2:48 AM, Archwizard said:

The passive suggestion is definitely a placeholder, but it's made under the belief that literally anything would be better than the version we have now, as the present version breaks the effectiveness of two of her abilities while only adding realistic benefit to one.

Not sure about either of those replacement suggestions. Radiation Hazard is literally a Sortie hazard; if Nyx was just immune outright, everyone would just go Nyx for it (and the effect would see literally zero use outside of that or traps, because no enemy naturally deals Radiation damage). I feel like a variation on Quick Thinking is already present in her Absorb ability ever since they added the increasing cost for high damage intake, and especially the augment.

Yeah, those weren't particularly great suggestions for a passive replacement. Let's try again...

A. Enemies under the effects of Nyx's powers are visible through walls and terrain, but only to the caster, using their custom energy color or an inoffensive muted white. Since Nyx is controlling/affecting the minds of those subjects, it'd make sense that she could also get a general idea of where they are. This could manifest itself as:

1. A one-time flash of the enemies' silhouette through terrain when first affected.
2. Pulsing of that silhouette every few seconds that fades when the power's effect wears off (only applicable to Mind Control and Chaos).
3. Real-time glowing through walls that fades when the power's effect wears off (only applicable to Mind Control and Chaos).

1 would be the most 'balanced' but also potentially useless, since Chaos doesn't refresh itself on affected enemies, forcing you to wait for it to wear off, and it wouldn't provide a good idea of where your Mind Control unit is.

2 would provide a general estimation of location over time, which is a little more useful with her kit, though I worry the pulsing effect would become visually annoying over time.

3 would be the ideal solution IMO, since it doesn't overlap with that other frame that can provide that effect for the entire team, and it fits the theme of being in control of the field. I don't know if this would be 'overpowered' or anything, but the capacity to see enemies through walls in a non-competitive environment for just oneself seems more 'Rule of Cool' than all that useful in practice. You could very well identify where a straggling enemy that must be killed is, too, expediting mission types like Defense or Exterminate.

B. All enemies affected by Nyx's powers have a small chance (~10%) to be put under full Mind Control for 5-10 seconds, serving exclusively as an ally AI, but being susceptible to damage rather than having to wait for the effect to wear off.

This would provide a more universally useful version of her current passive that actually helps you and others survive. The reason this isn't terribly overpowered is because Chaos doesn't work on enemies already affected by it--you have to wait for it to wear off before an affected enemy can do it again. It'd also useful for Psychic Bolts, which unlike Chaos, can be applied several times in a relatively quick fashion, possibly offering a niche as a spammy, RNG-based mass mind control ability.

---

Hopefully those are better suggestions for a possible Nyx passive replacement and I explained my reasoning for making abilities cost less in Razorwing. For Titania, the survivability in that mode is pretty much mandatory for harder content, as keeping Razorwing off serves more as a death sentence for a frame with such a weak kit otherwise that is in dire need of QoL improvements.

Edited February 1, 2017 by Landpaddle

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

Personally, I think Oberon is in a good spot as far as his kit actually being fun to use goes. He's not a paladin at all, that's just the term people are trying to use on him, it's Oberon the mystical, King of the Faeries. That being said, Oberon needs to take some 'roids and get buffed, because his overall damage output and buffs/ de-buffs are woefully weak even at rank 30, with mods not really helping much. And his passive needs to be reduced a bit or changed to only affect wildlife once, because I can't tell you how frustrating it is when the last enemy on the map is a Dhrakk or Hyekka in another room and as soon as you try to murder its face it turns into an ally and you need to wait only to have it turn into an ally again. 

As far as Limbo goes, he is too complex for his own good & needs a rework. His 1 & 4 would stay mostly the same, with his ult still putting an entire area into the Rift, but casting it again damages and knocks down everyone in it as the pocket collapses pretty much instantly, while Banish would be changed so that casting it on an enemy or friendly puts them in the rift, with a guaranteed knock down for enemies and friendlies, and casting it without a target puts you into the rift. Limbos passive would give him a damage boost in the Rift aside from passively gaining energy and being untouchable by hazards outside the Rift, and his 2 & 3 could be more offensive abilities focusing on the Rift. Since currently it's used more as a defensive mechanism, we should also give Limbo some actual synergistic damage abilities, like his 2 becoming a Rift Lance. It fires a beam of concentrated energy that does less damage against enemies in the Rift but more against targets outside, ending in an small AoE blast that knocks enemies down. For his 3 I was thinking something like Rift Pulse, which would be a toggle ability that emits waves of Rift energy from Limbo which do a little damage and knock enemies down with a chance to send them into the Rift. That way he can become a true master of the Rift. And to reflect that, make his stats more like other caster frames if they aren't already.

[Archwizard]

Devstream just covered several coming changes to Limbo.

To recap what was shown (they stated that several of these changes are already outdated, as Rebecca played on an outdated build):

• His passive is now a dodge into and out of the Rift any time you Roll, using an animation similar to the Lunaro shoulder-check. This was chosen to address player complaints that it is too hard to get loot. (Doesn't help with people blocking loot via Cataclysm, of course...)
• Banish will now affect multiple enemies at once, similar to Rest & Rage. (Score 1.)
• Rift Walk is now "Stasis": Enemies and projectiles within the Rift are frozen until the effect ends or is deactivated; this applies to enemies who were in the Rift at the time of activation as well as those who enter while active. Overloading this effect will forcibly remove you from the Rift and deactivate your passive for a short while.
• Rift Surge "took some inspiration from Molecular Prime". You can use this to "charge up" enemies with damage; enemies who died under this effect while within the Rift will detonate to damage surrounding enemies, while enemies who died outside of the Rift can create mini-Cataclysms - Scott said about 1/3rd of the size, but also that it was likely to be increased. (A lot of the specifics were unfortunately unclear from both gameplay and description. Still, it may have benefit both inside and outside of the Rift, which is a welcome change!)
• Cataclysm is mostly the same, but causes enemies who enter the Rift to be stunned. (Score 2.)

Personally, I'm hopeful for this rework. The #2 change alone has a lot of potential for utility, and it's possible from the description of "charging up" his 3 that it may even have direct interaction with his other powers. It's not simply like Ember where 3 of the powers do one thing and then Accelerant just makes them stronger; each one seems like a potential focal point to new strategies.

Still wish they made Cataclysm pull in loot and objects though.

[Buzkyl]

5 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

Still wish they made Cataclysm pull in loot and objects though.

Reb was able to loot within the rift, however i'm not sure if that's intended.

[Blakrana]

7 minutes ago, Archwizard said:

each one seems like a potential focal point to new strategies

Could be interesting. If nothing else, it gives me ideas for Limbo in a narrative context at least _{cause I'm a sad fool still tinkering at fic stuff on the side.}

Though I still feel that unless we get a proper addressing of the Rift and making sure that anything it stops us from doing, it stops the AI from doing. We can't hack or activate stuff, then no hacking or Ramparts for enemies seems fair. However, if there's one thing that is necessary, it's that Limbo must have more perks from being in the Rift than the Enemy could ever hope to have, simply because it's his turf and I am rather tired of not being any better off dragging groups in with me or not.

Sorry to grouse, but I do believe Limbo's only as effective as the Rift is a known factor; every inconsistency it brings weakens the potential for tactics. He can be great, but if the Rift remains a bigger burden than a boon to the players as a whole, well...it's what leads to the disdain for him. And now that it's possible for him to forge more mini-cataclysms this feels like a potential cascade problem that needs considering in advance.

[Azamagon]

3 hours ago, Archwizard said:

Devstream just covered several coming changes to Limbo.

To recap what was shown (they stated that several of these changes are already outdated, as Rebecca played on an outdated build):

• His passive is now a dodge into and out of the Rift any time you Roll, using an animation similar to the Lunaro shoulder-check. This was chosen to address player complaints that it is too hard to get loot. (Doesn't help with people blocking loot via Cataclysm, of course...)
• Banish will now affect multiple enemies at once, similar to Rest & Rage. (Score 1.)
• Rift Walk is now "Stasis": Enemies and projectiles within the Rift are frozen until the effect ends or is deactivated; this applies to enemies who were in the Rift at the time of activation as well as those who enter while active. Overloading this effect will forcibly remove you from the Rift and deactivate your passive for a short while.
• Rift Surge "took some inspiration from Molecular Prime". You can use this to "charge up" enemies with damage; enemies who died under this effect while within the Rift will detonate to damage surrounding enemies, while enemies who died outside of the Rift can create mini-Cataclysms - Scott said about 1/3rd of the size, but also that it was likely to be increased. (A lot of the specifics were unfortunately unclear from both gameplay and description. Still, it may have benefit both inside and outside of the Rift, which is a welcome change!)
• Cataclysm is mostly the same, but causes enemies who enter the Rift to be stunned. (Score 2.)

Personally, I'm hopeful for this rework. The #2 change alone has a lot of potential for utility, and it's possible from the description of "charging up" his 3 that it may even have direct interaction with his other powers. It's not simply like Ember where 3 of the powers do one thing and then Accelerant just makes them stronger; each one seems like a potential focal point to new strategies.

Still wish they made Cataclysm pull in loot and objects though.

I ... don't like most of those

Passive: While I do agreed that this passive SOUNDS cool, and I guess it CAN work, I never thought LIMBO getting loot was the bigger issue (due to how Carrier holds loot for ya, otherwise, yeah, it's annoying for him too), it's a bigger issue for teammates who are Rifted / when Limbo poorly uses Cataclysm. And not being able to roll normally is gonna take a LOT of getting used to (I personally use rolling heavily to make smoother parkouring).

If anything, getting loot now will be even more annoying than with Rift Walk, because not only do you have to still switch in and out of the Rift (same issue as Rift Walk had), now the passive also requires you to MOVE before being able to pick stuff up (so, a NEW issue occurs instead, rather than solving the issue, which could be done by letting loot be picked up cross-rift... typical overcomplicating á la DE).

And what about those times you wanna swap Rift/reality, but don't wanna move (such as doing careful sniping and such)? That simplicity was also entirely removed now.

While I sound harsh, I still understand why they chose this passive change. A level 1 Limbo will now be able to deal with the Rift and enemies in the Rift. It also allows for more DIFFERENT abilities, not just "send someone into the rift" in various ways. So, yeah, I'm harsh on this passive, but also completely understanding of its changes.

And, I still think it sounds COOL, no matter how impractical it might actually be. I really hope it's gonna be smoother than I think it's gonna be...

Banish: Nope. Don't like this change very much. You should know better @Archwizard, this is NOT just a "score". As a basic, no-choice feature, AoE is gonna SUCK for precision-casting! Big time. If it was AoE on HOLDCAST, sure, no problems, I'd LOVE the change, as then you can still have precision-casts too. But as presented, this was a very bad move from DE, probably due to them listening to the constant whining of people who DON'T play Limbo.

Stasis: Interesing... but the fact that it can not only cut out early (which I don't mind, as it sounds like very powerful CC), but the fact that it can also KICK LIMBO OUT OF THE RIFT, even for a duration, worries me a ton. He already has to be very careful handling who is or who is not in the rift... having to micromanage how MANY inside as well can spell for an absolute disaster.
That said, the fact that you apparently can disable it early, that gives me SOME hope that it could be a very useful (albeit risky) ability.
EDIT: A guess here: Seems like they want a risky penalty somewhere in his kit to tie in with his lore, perhaps?

Rift Surge: *sigh* What is this now? More randomness with uncontrollable minicataclysms? Yeah... this spells for even more disaster, especially when combined with the issues from Stasis. The M.Prime-esque explosions sound ok though, I guess, as it can help him do stuff cross-rift (I hope?). But of all the things from this Limbo rework, the random mini-cataclysm sounds like a very big no-no! Uncontrollable random rifting is... not how you keep Limbo or his team alive, that's for sure.

Cataclysm: Well, that's a nice change.

 

Suggestions for DE's rework:

Passive - Keep DE's proposed passive, but add another very important feature: Standing still and pressing shift simply warps him in and out from the rift, without dashing him anywhere (So, he has to move to dash with it).

Banish - Tap for single cast, Hold for AoE cast.

Stasis - Freeze everything already inside or futurely enterring the Rift while ability is active, as suggested. However, speed up how quickly the abiliy fades the more enemies you have / will be caught, but no other overly dangerous drawbacks.

Rift Surge - Keep the damage amp for when Limbo is in the Rift. Also, wether Limbo is in the Rift or not, either make his attacks cause deathexplosions, or give him an aura which marks enemies to have death-explosions (and make the explosions damage enemies cross rift, if they aren't already).
It could also work similary to Accelerant, in that he will get a selfbuff (Rift damage amp) and enemies in an AoE are debuffed (marked for deathexplosions), and make it recastable. That's probably a lot more balanced.
No matter what though, scrap the hilariously dangerous mini-cataclysms.

Cataclysm - Don't allow enemies to exit by themselves (no hard-CC when touching the walls though). Enemies in Cataclysm hurt by Banish will be expelled violently with ragdoll. Holdcast it when active to quickly shrink the sphere's size manually.

Rift in general - Allow looting and carrying of any items cross-rift. I mean, you can still hold your weapons, no? Why not loot etc? Logic explanation: You and your allies can "banish" small stuff that you touch.
I'd possibly also allow allies and Limbo to hack in the Rift, but doing so greatly speeds up the remaining Rift-duration (meaning, reducing the time you have left to stay in the Rift).

I think this will solve most issues with the rework (and old problems too).

Edited February 18, 2017 by Azamagon