Retune *all* The Frames! (11/19: Wildfire)

[taiiat]

From what I can tell so far of Ivara's kit, it... doesn't really need anything.

i have one complaint so far - the Noise Arrow is incredibly niche.

 

literally everything else is useful in and out of Stealth. Noise Arrow is ONLY useful in Stealth. it's pointless outside of. it doesn't even make Enemies turn around if they're attacking something.

boo :(

 

Edit:

Thing about Ash is, part of his innate design is that he sacrifices teamplay for personal utilities. That said, if he were to have a team interaction, I would think it to be more offensively oriented than defensive, especially given the number of frames who already have deployable cover skills now (Frost, Volt, Atlas).

be that as is may - with Smokescreen's 8m Range, reducing Accuracy of Enemies within Range would be pretty niche and not a huge feature, mostly there for more flavor - which almost never hurts.

definitely not a primary feature though.

Edited December 7, 2015 by taiiat

[Archwizard]

Note to self, when I have some time: Put Mag up on the higher lists, given that she's something of a hot topic since she stopped being a Greedy Pull mule.

 

i have one complaint so far - the Noise Arrow is incredibly niche.

 

literally everything else is useful in and out of Stealth. Noise Arrow is ONLY useful in Stealth. it's pointless outside of. it doesn't even make Enemies turn around if they're attacking something.

 

Hmm. Well, when a Tenno enters stealth, enemies have been programmed to continue approaching or attacking the 'last known location' of the Tenno. Perhaps Noise Arrow could reset that location, if all Tenno are in stealth? Given that Ivara can place stealth fields for her allies anyway, it would encourage synergy within her own kit as well as teamplay.

 

be that as is may - with Smokescreen's 8m Range, reducing Accuracy of Enemies within Range would be pretty niche and not a huge feature, mostly there for more flavor - which almost never hurts.

 

Fair 'nuff.

[taiiat]

Hmm. Well, when a Tenno enters stealth, enemies have been programmed to continue approaching or attacking the 'last known location' of the Tenno. Perhaps Noise Arrow could reset that location, if all Tenno are in stealth? Given that Ivara can place stealth fields for her allies anyway, it would encourage synergy within her own kit as well as teamplay.

mebeh. would work.

 

the on the nose functionality i had in mind was that it would distract Enemies within Range like how it does to unalerted Enemies, but a bit different since they're already in active Combat presumably.

such as turning to the Noise location, shooting at it for a couple seconds, realizing they're dumb and then retargeting.

[TheGrimCorsair]

mebeh. would work.

 

the on the nose functionality i had in mind was that it would distract Enemies within Range like how it does to unalerted Enemies, but a bit different since they're already in active Combat presumably.

such as turning to the Noise location, shooting at it for a couple seconds, realizing they're dumb and then retargeting.

It'd be pretty neat if it prompted a grenade throw from all affected enemies that were outside a certain from it, especially if it made those enemies at the impact point vulnerable to the 'nades thrown by their allies.

 

Then again, griefing potential.

[taiiat]

It'd be pretty neat if it prompted a grenade throw from all affected enemies that were outside a certain from it, especially if it made those enemies at the impact point vulnerable to the 'nades thrown by their allies.

 

Then again, griefing potential.

- unfortunately, unless those Grenades did some fancy CC Effects when dealing FF to Enemies... it wouldn't do much. Enemies don't care about FF Damage, it's inconsequential to their Health.

- yer darn tootin'. would nuke pretty much anyone unlucky enough to be at the epicenter.

[Sorise]

For Desecrate and Synergy:

 

Range is now infinite

 

You now see an aura or hands where bodies once were as loot comes gushing out after that the aura flies into Nekros buffing other abilities and serving as Shadows for Nekros with Heavy Units and Eximus Units taking priority. A new UI would tell you how much of each Heavy, Eximus, Normal units you absorbed.

 

Based on either duration(can be recast) or energy/health drain.

 

With Desecrate active:

 

Shadows grow stronger with each body on the ground or soul collected, for each body or soul, they move faster, shoot/swing faster and toss more grenades and use abilities more often as well as doubling the effect of auras.

 

There is a limit.

 

Soul Punch now punches enemies in a straight line, the more souls absorbed via Desecrate, the more enemies get punched.

 

Fear: Uses collects souls to strike fear into more than the default number of enemies Or with more souls collected, the greater the power of fear and images of fallen ones is used against the enemies. Enemies run like hell making them drop extra credits and fear spreads to nearby enemies.

 

New alternate shadows effect, with desecrate active and enough souls absorbed, combine them all to form a big apparition behind you capable of heavy broad melee attacks that also auto block attacks from the from the front. Neckros moves faster as well. 

Edited December 8, 2015 by Sorise

[taiiat]

-snip-

sounds neat - but is there a way to cast Abilities without using up your special Resource? as there should be otherwise Players that are trying to make one Ability more effective will (somewhat rightfully so) complain that they can't cast any Abilities because they need to keep that Resource tallied.

[Sorise]

Only Shadows use them up and you can have a lot more souls then shadows you can summon.

 

You can also walk up to a shadow and hold 4 to adsorb him and replace him with a heavy unit.

 

You can also press 4 to teleport shadows to you and hold 4 away from shadows to absorb them and re summon them.

 

You can also aim and press 4 to tell the shadows where to shoot. Also aim and hold 4 to make the shadows go there.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Sorise

[Basilisk1991]

I'm about 90% sure I'm not the first person to suggest this on the forums but I'll just throw this proposal out there, how about folding a few of Vauban abilities into "Multiple choice power" ala quiver for his grenades and give him some more abilities? I realize that would probably take a lot of work but I think it would be awesome.

[Archwizard]

Note to self, when I have some time: Put Mag up on the higher lists, given that she's something of a hot topic since she stopped being a Greedy Pull mule.

 

Done.

 

-snip-

 

I refuse to give credence to anything that increases the value of Desecrate spam. As I've said many times, that's just having your cake and eating it too.

 

I'm about 90% sure I'm not the first person to suggest this on the forums but I'll just throw this proposal out there, how about folding a few of Vauban abilities into "Multiple choice power" ala quiver for his grenades and give him some more abilities? I realize that would probably take a lot of work but I think it would be awesome.

 

Before we jump into the wonders of Quiver's implications on Vauban, Chroma, etc., perhaps we should wait and see how they execute it on consoles.

 

Although I am curious as to what you had in mind; the problem is just that several of his abilities do have differing values (particularly Vortex/Bastille) that would make putting them all on one button at the same cost a questionable adjustment.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Archwizard

[taiiat]

Although I am curious as to what you had in mind; the problem is just that several of his abilities do have differing values (particularly Vortex/Bastille) that would make putting them all on one button at the same cost a questionable adjustment.

Tesla and Bounce could definitely be in one Ability though!

and then make two more things for it, and one more complete Ability.

 

i guess we can see if there's problems with Consoles. but it seems fine to me.

[DrBorris]

I love Mag, she was my starter frame and Mag Prime is still my most used (I will admit I have not been using her as much, but the Sentients might change that).

 

Hell yes to pull pulling enemies to your feet again, don't see why DE changed this.

 

I have to say, Shield Polarize is not good for the game. Even if Mag did no damage to Grineer or Infested that is no excuse for her to literally be able to cripple an entire faction into a 2 spam. I don't like the sound of "Nerf Mag," but my god Shield Polarize needs a nerf. Maybe have it be an aura that depletes enemies shields at a massive rate (percentage of shields, not DPS, so she will still scale) and recharges allies at that same rate and no recharge delay? Maybe have it turn ally shields into Proto-Shields? No frame should be able to walk in a room, push a button and watch everything die instantly, just look at what DE did to Saryn (which most seem to agree were for the best).

 

I would take the opposite approach you did with Bullet Attractor, I would put more emphasis on the explosion. My suggestion is pretty simple, make it work like absorb. All damage done to the targeted enemies both while they are alive and have the orange sphere also absorb a bit more damage that would then explode onto nearby enemies. I could really se either idea working though (lower energy cost and remove explosion or make absorb-ish), this could be a beautiful time for an Augment.

 

Crush change is beautiful, along with the Augment.

 

 

I would also like to add that I think we can all agree Shield Transference should affect the entire team.

Edited December 13, 2015 by DrBorris

[Naqel]

Though ultimately I'd like to see warframe entirely reworked to provide a healthier environment for gameplay and future development, I none the less decided that since I've already made some rarely attempted suggestions for "live", I might as well post them here:

 

 

For Zephyr:

Passive reasoning: Current passive is somewhat frustrating, altering the way a player traverses the gamespace without an off-switch. In the interest of alleviating the issue, all components are not tied to conscious actions taken by the player. As an added benefit, Zephyr would not also benefit from the bird-like ability to perch for a while longer.

Passive: Falling speed reduction only active during Aim-Glide, add a third jump to replace the current increased jump height, allow the increased Aim-Glide duration to also affect Wall Latch.

 

Tailwind+Divebomb reasoning: It's no great discovery that merging Tailwind with Divebomb and allowing it to function contextually is a popular feature for reducing redundancy. What I suggest is taking it all a step further, and allowing the fashionable melee weapon scaling for damage, as well as some extra contextual navigation help.

Ability One - Contextual Paradise Tailwind+Divebomb(25energy): Always target cursor, damage scales with melee weapon, ground collision cause Divebomb style slam, Wall collision slides along the wall or latches onto it if RMB is held when it occurs. Castable from a Wall Latch.

 

Turbulance reasoning: Turbulance as a toggle is another popular feature, but while being largely immune to ranged attacks, Turbulance offers no deterrent to melee attackers. Hence, projectile trapping, which rewards effective use of Turbulance for defense at range, with offensive capability in melee.

Ability Two - Toggle-able Deadly Turbulance(25energy+10/second): Projectiles that enter Toggle-able Deadly Turbulance are trapped circling it's radius, if an enemy enters that radius, they will be hit by said projectiles. For the sake of simplicity, Toggle-able Deadly Turbulance only tracks the number and total damage of trapped projectiles, inflicting 10 hits per second, each worth the average damage of a single absorbed projectile.

 

Tornado reasoning: Current tornado is an ability that's boring to use, and benefits the user primarily when they don't move much. Instead, a shorter lived effect, that can only be capitalized for damage by actually making use of the primary mobility skill, would greatly benefit Zephyr regardless of use conditions thanks to it's low casting cost on account of no direct damage.

Ability Three - Tornado on Steroids(25energy): Sends out 3/4/5 rapidly moving Tornadoes in a cone forward, launching and suspending enemies hit in the air. Suspended enemies take double damage from Contextual Paradise Tailwind+Divebomb.

 

Dispersion reasoning: With only 3 abilities remaining after the Tailwind+Divebomb merge, Zephyr needs a gap-fill to tie everything together. What better way to tie everything together than to do so literally? With Dispersion, Zephyr can convert any of her other abilities into a real game changer, at the expense of the ability not offering much on it's own.

Game-Breaking Ability - Interactive-Synergy-Overload Dispersion(25energy): Cast on it's own, Interactive-Synergy-Overload Dispersion simply knocks down nearby enemies within a short radius. Cast in mid-air, it also automatically causes an old-school Divebomb inflicting Contextual Paradise Tailwind+Divebomb damage in it's radius.

With Toggle-able Deadly Turbulance, any stored damage is additionally spread evenly amongst targets in range.

Further still, any enemies affected by the Tornado on Steroids suspension effect at the time of cast, are brutally thrown to the ground, damaging and knocking them down as well, even if they are outside of the impact zone.

Optimal casting conditions: Above a group of suspended targets, with plenty of bullets trapped in Toggle-able Deadly Turbulance.

 

For Banshee:

Passive reasoning: Currently the passive is missing, and the best option was stolen by Ivara.

Passive: +50% damage against unaware targets(any weapon).

 

Sonic Boom reasoning: Sonic Boom is weak, and unreliable as a finisher opener, unless counter-intuitively modded for minimum range. With plans to address the finisher aspect elsewhere, the ability would instead shift into a softer CC role instead.

Ability One - Actually Explosive Sonic Boom(25energy): Improved damage relative to the existing version. Targets Sonar weak-spot for further increased damage and synergy purposes. Enemies hit are staggered, and then briefly dazed; suffering a slowdown and loss of accuracy for a duration, but are otherwise able to act normally.

(Existing augment altered to match the duration of the "daze" effect.)

 

Sonar+Silence reasoning: Both abilities lend themselves well  to becoming a toggle, but having both do that while separate would either put a strain on the energy reserves, or make for uninspired gameplay.

Ability Two - Continuously-Combined Deadly Echoes of Sonar and Silence(25energy+10/second): Projects an aura of deathly silence that travels with Banshee until she runs out of energy or disables the ability manually. Enemies and allies within range are rendered completely silent, and additional weak-spots are revealed on each enemy in range that enable additional damage. Unless this ability is active, any other abilities are alarmingly audible.

(Existing augments function normally: additional weak-spots are created on kill with Resonance, finishers become more powerful with Savage Silence)

 

Shriek reasoning: Current finisher openers created by Silence and Sonic boom both suffer from being unreliable or impossible to capitalize upon when the abilities are modded for range. To address this issue, a new ability similar to Valkyr's Paralisys is placed in the opening left by the merging of Sonar and Silence. Allowing for precise control over when and where the enemies should become vulnerable.

Ability Three - Paralyzingly Familiar Shriek(25energy): A terrifying noise leaves enemies within short range defenseless for a scaling duration.

 

Soundquake reasoning: Existing lack of damage and synergy is replaced with the ability to sacrifice the CC portion of the ability for a potentially massive boost in damage.

Game-Breaking Ability - Cumulative Synergy Soundquake(25energy+10/second): Cast on it's own, Cumulative Synergy Soundquake will continuously damage and stagger enemies within range at, short, regular intervals.

With Continuously-Combined Deadly Echoes of Sonar and Silence active, any damage will instead be stored, to be silently released as a finisher targeting the Sonar weak-spots when either ability is deactivated.

 

[Sorise]

Flight is while her 3 is active, if you hold 1 you'll go into flight mode causing energy drain.

 

Flight mode is basically Archwing, but with Warframe powers(You can use all 4). Although boosting may increase energy usage. Whether energy use goes up the farther you are away from the ground is up to balance.

 

And melee now homes in on enemies.

 

Hover mode is when you jump then hold jump and now you hover over ground. Doing this allows you to move fast, bullet jump fast and aim glide longer. Latch to wall till energy depletes.

 

Bulletjump causes a twister around you knocking enemies down and you can bulletjump for as long as you hold crouch for s set duration but after that, you may or may not suffer energy drain depending on balance. You have full control over aim glide direction with more accurate shots.

 

You latch on walls until energy runs dry.

 

By gliding, you are always hovering over ground so no flying.

 

Hovering may use a tiny bit of energy.

 

Synergy and versatility.

 

 

 

However if more energy drain is needed for balance, feel free to say so :)

I refuse to give credence to anything that increases the value of Desecrate spam. As I've said many times, that's just having your cake and eating it too.

Well, loot abilities is their way of fixing the loot system.

 

At least with this, you won't have a useless Nekros with you.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Sorise

[taiiat]

and the best option was stolen by Ivara.

Unless this ability is active, any other abilities are alarmingly audible.

- i don't think it was. the best thematic option for Banshee IMO is 20 Meters of 3D Enemy Radar aka Wallhacks.

- erm. almost all Warframe Abilities are already Silent. Banshee only being silent while an Ability is active would actually reduce her Stealth capabilities, while Stealth is part of her Theme instead of not like most Warframes.

[Naqel]

- erm. almost all Warframe Abilities are already Silent. Banshee only being silent while an Ability is active would actually reduce her Stealth capabilities, while Stealth is part of her Theme instead of not like most Warframes.

 

Actually, unless explicitly made otherwise, most warframe abilities are alarmingly loud.

It's meant to be a part of her sound theme.

You go silent, you become deadly silent, but when you stay loud... you actually don't want to stay loud for synergy reasons.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Naqel

[tnccs215]

]Actually, unless explicitly made otherwise, most warframe abilities are alarmingly loud.

It's meant to be a part of her sound theme.

You go silent, you become deadly silent, but when you stay loud... you actually don't want to stay loud for synergy reasons.

I think that, by silent, the author meant that they arent "heard" by the enemy.

Of Course, I am aware that abilities that are and are not perceived by them both exist, so I cant asure what is the majority, and, ence, who of you both is more right.

[Naqel]

I think that, by silent, the author meant that they arent "heard" by the enemy.

Of Course, I am aware that abilities that are and are not perceived by them both exist, so I cant asure what is the majority, and, ence, who of you both is more right.

 

I happen to know the silent abilities "by heart":

 

Ash: Everything

Banshee: Sonar and Silence

Excalibur: Slash Dash

Ivara: Everything

Loki: Invisibility

Hydroid: Undertow

Mag: Pull and Polarize

Mirage: Sleigh of Hand and Eclipse

Vauban: Everything

Wukong: Defy and Cloud Walker

 

That's less than half, some of this might be outdated due to reworks/updates.

[taiiat]

I think that, by silent, the author meant that they arent "heard" by the enemy.

Of Course, I am aware that abilities that are and are not perceived by them both exist, so I cant asure what is the majority, and, ence, who of you both is more right.

a lot more Abilities are Silent than Players think.

ones that deal Damage to Enemies are silent as long as the Enemies taking Damage don't survive. 

 

same vein as using a Supressor Mod on your Weapon doesn't help you if you don't Kill the Enemy in one shot. they got hit, you alerted them.

so most Damage Abilities are quiet as long as the Enemies getting hit die.

Et Cetera.

[CrogenitorSeims]

Just watched

on Nezha feedback, some suggestions that came to mind:

• Fire Walker's speed bonus affects casting animations.
• Absorption period for Snow Globe, Tectonics, Iron Skin, and Warding Halo triggers when hit, rather than on cast.
• Blazing Chakram heals upon bouncing or after teleporting Nezha (multiplied by the number of unused bounces), rather than by killing marked enemies. Enemies are only marked if no allies were in range of the heal.
• Excess healing from Blazing Chakram is rolled over onto shields.

I already posted these on the video's comment, thought I should mention them here too.

[Archwizard]

-snip-

 

Sorry about getting back to you on this so late - I haven't actually had a chance to play Nezha yet, due to his more... random obtainment from Sorties. 3/4 parts down for now, wish me luck on those Systems.

 

Just watched Mogamu's video. A lot of the things he's saying are mostly minor changes, quality of life and whatnot. From what I've got from him (which I don't want to implement into the OP until I've had a shot at Nezha myself):

- Fire Walker's width is affected by Range mods. 

- Blazing Chakram's base healing radius increased. Excess healing is rolled over onto shields.

- Warding Halo's absorption period begins at the start of the cast animation rather than following.

- Divine Spears will impale flying enemies to the ground, a la Freeze effects.

- Consideration: Blazing Chakram damage scales with melee mods.

- Consideration: Blazing Chakram's number of bounces is affected by Strength, flight distance is affected by Range and speed is affected by Duration

 

As far as animation speed, rolling the animation into Warding Halo's activation and absorption time is reasonable; Iron Skin activates during the animation, and all three of Snow Globe, Tectonics and Iron Skin have a shorter animation time than Warding Halo does. I don't think it's necessary to have them start absorbing "when hit"; part of the skill ceiling for these effects is knowing exactly when to time them in the heat of combat, where your suggestion would just let you pre-cast at the start of the mission, then be immune to damage for 4 seconds when you actually engage without actually having to waste any more energy.

Excess healing from Chakram rolling into shields, sounds reasonable, as long as you don't expect it to make overshields. The thing about healing effects in Warframe is that most of the ones available are already so potent because frames primarily have so little health - I think it peaks out around 1300 if you mod for it on a high-health frame, so the odds of you actually having excess healing if you built for it are low. I think my main concern with the ability would be if you used it on a high health enemy - since relying on kills is counter to scalability (theoretically you could just have the effect heal if it expires prematurely, but then everyone would be encouraged to use low duration builds like on Trinity) - but the effect is presently balanced around only getting to drain from an enemy once, and after Renewal I'd rather avoid having more arbitrary limitations to healing than necessary to keep this balance. Asking for something as simple as a radius increase is reasonable primarily because the effect is already thrown from you to start with.

 

My main concern right now is the idea of having Blazing Chakram scale with melee mods. I have no problem with it dealing more melee damage - as I said before, a concern with tying any effect into an enemy's death comes when the target simply doesn't want to die, and this would accommodate that. However, given its unique nature cloning thrown weapons, a lot of suggestions I've seen so far before Mogamu's video have said to make it scale with Glaive mods, the issue there being that Nezha might become pidgeonholed into running with a Glaive-type weapon in his melee slot at all times.

[bl4ckhunter]

i disagree whith both  the purposed change to turbolence, that in my opinion doesn't need changes and the divebomb replacement, what you're suggesting is too similiar to atlas's petrify with harsher penalities for reduced effectivenes, since it has already and has already been proved that petrify is totally useless i believe that it should be scratched as a replacement suggestion.

 

besides that i think that atlas and volt need way more work upon them than what you suggested:

 

first off, de hasn't been flagging most of what would logically count as electrical appliances as electrical appliances for a long while now, most of the lights in many tilesets don't count, besides that the ability it's still extremely situational as many tilesets feature very little lights (ex:moon, earth, eris) to begin with, overload should be scrapped or reworked totally, making lights magically regenerate is simply just not going to work.

 

secondly atlas has a lot of problems right now,  petrify is the worst cc ability in the game right now and it's affected by all the problems that affect spectral scream and it's even less effective than spectral scream on heavy units, the rumblers  do nothing besides chasing you as you dash  from enemy to enemy with landslide and occasionally throw a pebble or suicide into a nullifier, also i don't think that adding range scaling to tectonics would be enough,  specially since it's a flat wall that's outclassed both by volt's and frost's, in my opinion tectonics should be changed to a   snowglobe-like orb of stone that doesn't allow neither enemies nor bullets/explosions to pass throught it's perimeter.

 

a side note, not that i'd be against adding stagger resistence to vex armor but it's not really necessary since as far as i know elemental ward already gives stagger resistence.

[taiiat]

Divebomb doesn't need to be replaced or merged into Tailwind

 

make Tectonics a Snowglobe

uwot?

Divebomb is useful, but it doesn't do enough to justify taking an Ability slot outright.

which is why merging Divebomb into Tailwind is so popular - because you can get a completely new Ability that is worth an Ability Slot without losing the one extra tool that Divebomb brings to the table.

 

 

Rock Wall is useful as it stands. if you want a big thing to hide behind, use the actual wall next to you.

if Rock Wall became a 'rock bubble' or 'rock ring' - you can be sure it would lose solidity. making it a Snowglobe clone. because elsewise it would make Objectives indestructible because Enemies could never get to them. ever.

 

and that would not only be boo for variety but would also be removing the best feature of the Ability - to literally be able to block off Enemy paths (like doorways), to not only chokepoint them but to halt them completely.

[bl4ckhunter]

uwot?

Divebomb is useful, but it doesn't do enough to justify taking an Ability slot outright.

which is why merging Divebomb into Tailwind is so popular - because you can get a completely new Ability that is worth an Ability Slot without losing the one extra tool that Divebomb brings to the table.

you misunderstood me there, i agree by all means to merging divebomb with tailwind, i was saying that replacing it with an even more useless impact version of spectral scream that makes you stationary is not a good idea, the thing that i was referring as not needing changes is turbolence not divebomb

 

as far as the rock wall is concerned i disagree as in the current form is way too situational to be of any use as it is, blocking doorways is only remotely useful in some mission types and even then other abilities (any of vauban's abilities, ice wave impendence, snowglobe, etch) do a much better job at it actually and making it larger would not help at all, right now it's just electric shield stepchild ability, besides since it's destroyable i don't see any reason it should loose it's solidity.

[taiiat]

the thing that i was referring as not needing changes is turbolence not divebomb

 

another Warframe that is dedicated to a theme is better

Turbulence is poo nowadays, though.

we used to be able to protect Allies and Et Cetera that were nearby you with it which made it pretty useful - now... it's a personal Defensive tool ala Shatter Shield, Eclipse, Iron Skin, Defy, Vex Armor, Et Cetera - and brings nothing to the Team.

i thought this was a Co-Op game but maybe i'm nuts. :s

 

 

 

that's a stupid thing to say. 'this Warframe does something better'. well, Atlas clearly isn't only focused on that theme.

if you want CC Ability and ONLY CC Abilities or a Warframe that heavily focuses on CC, you aren't going to use Atlas.

please, take your 'hnngh this Warframe does it better therefore this is useless' hyperbole somewhere else.

 

being Niche is Subjective so we can't discuss that. some things aren't useful for some Playstyles. (i didn't suggest it was only useful in Doorways though, just gave an example)

 

if it was a big ring or bubble, it would lose solidity because to compensate for it's larger size it would have way more Health and Et Cetera - so to be balanced it would no longer be solid since otherwise it would just be a permanent addition to the map and Objectives would be safe forever.

 

 

as Steve would say... the Status Quo is boo, let's do interesting things.

having one Player Slot dedicated to one role and taking the same roles in every Mission is a super lame formula that's been used for too many games. attempting to reinforce it won't get any thumbs up from me, that's for sure.