Retune *all* The Frames! (11/19: Wildfire)

[TheGrimCorsair]

Also, I've been thinking of modifying Tornado in relation to the tech involved in Ivara's Quiver, so that you can change Tornado between a number of set formations rather than randomly orbiting and chasing enemies as now (for instance: Mode shifting between wall of twisters that moves forward until physical barrier is struck, to twisters that orbit Zephyr's position from the ground). Thoughts?

 

Ooh, I like that a lot. Sometimes you want a bunch of tornadoes orbiting where you're casting from, and sometimes you want them rolling forward ahead... yes please.

 

Oh, could you clarify where Hydroid's 2 is supposed to deposit enemies? As it is, with them being deposited about had the length of your dash behind you, it makes it really easy to sweep up large groups of enemies and then pin them in place with his 1 without having to worry about quick recovering enemies being right on top of you as they stand.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Ash Ideas:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/563302-ash-the-conglomerated-rework/

Edited January 3, 2016 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[FelisImpurrator]

Hey. Been a while. I've got a heaping helping of QoL/buffs for Saryn and Nezha, though.

Also, a quick note: Noise Arrow does exactly what you said... if no Tenno are visible AND it's been a certain amount of time since they last saw one. And they walk there slowly. If you mean "change it so alerted enemies run to that spot", maybe, but I THINK the arrow resets aggro so it may be better. That said, it could do so a bit more consistently...?

Saryn:

-Toxic Lash should be a party ability. Also consider making it a toggle with low, low upkeep, like 1-2e/sec - or simply make it 25 energy to cast.

--It's limited to melee range no matter what, so making it cheap and/or effortless to maintain should be balanced.

-Power synergy reduces casting costs somehow - ideally, implement some energy return based on how many procs are buffing miasma. Honestly could use a touch more than that, but I'm not sure what else. 3e per lash spore pop, up from 2?

--Saryn's energy costs are brutal for the full stack - people don't bother with miasma because it's slower than other nukes and costs twice or thrice as much.

-Health returned to original level for better eHP.

--DR or no DR, she can't brawl properly like this.

-What if Miasma had a gradient from "Pure CC" to "Pure Damage"? If an enemy has no tox/vir proc, Miasma leaves them immobilized for the duration but does its base damage. If one proc is active, they're slowed and take the 100% boosted damage. If both procs are active, they only get the stagger, but take 200% damage. Of course, like Chaos, recast doesn't stack to stunlock enemies.

--This allows it to be used tactically, with an actual choice/tradeoff mechanism, instead of just being a straight nuke that offers no CC.

Nezha rework:

-Fire Walker DoT increases the longer an enemy stays in fire trails (the scaling stack gradually decays when the enemy is clear, instead of vanishing). Midair flames happen at all times, not just bulletjump. Channel cost is reduced to 3e/sec. (I'd honestly swap the costs of this and World on Fire, because WoF would be balanced out by being 5 energy, while a basic 1 that does little damage has no business being so expensive.) Explosion radius is increased AND/OR increases in damage based on number of enemies hit.

--Damage scaling is awful, awful, awful. This can barely kill anything short of pure trashmobs, so it needs some way of ramping up over time. frozenballz noted that the explosion synergy at least should be able to blast enemies up to level 60-80 with the right build.

-Blazing Chakram should have clearly visible base damage, and yes, scale damage with melee mods - but not the healing. Hitting an enemy should mark them with a blazing halo that denotes the heal radius for the entire duration. Duration should scale the heal timer; range should affect flight distance. Glaive mods should be what affects number of bounces, and it should be able to acquire punchthrough from Power Throw. Hitting ANY surface or enemy should trigger homing bounces, no matter what. ALSO, make it a mobile 1h cast if it isn't already.

--If it gets too overpowered (unlikely), it can probably have its cast cost increased? But really, as of now it's pure utility, and too unreliable for what it is. Its only benefit is healing cryopods minimally - which is fair and balanced and should absolutely not be removed, because at this healing magnitude you have to work to keep a pod up that way, unlike old Mend. As for mobile cast, well... it's Nezha. Moving is kind of his thing.

--POSSIBLE Augment: Chakram gains innate punchthrough and ramps up damage for every enemy hit.

-Divine Spears needs its cast time reduced by 1/3 to 1/2. Also, as of now it does not affect any enemy with knockdown resistance; remove the restriction and let it spike anything. Ideally, make it cast while moving so Nezha doesn't have to stand still - if he could cast from a slide, the time might not need so much reduction to begin with. Spiked enemies are lower to the ground, making finisher stabs easier. POSSIBLY have them boost damage taken from chakram or firewalker, if none of the other scaling effects are implemented; it doesn't have much synergy besides the hidden halo damage boost.

--Nezha's a mobility-heavy frame. He needs to keep moving or he dies horribly. Having an ability that stops him dead is horribly counterproductive. Also, Stomp can hit anything regardless of resistance auras and hits a vastly larger area, and comes out much faster, hence these changes - and the enemy height is just to make slide melee and stabbing easier.

-Warding Halo... rework it. Make its damage scale with velocity, with a burst component on initial hit (on a hidden cooldown timer) before the DoT. If Nezha remains stationary for too long, the halo starts ticking down in durability automatically (say, 5s of no movement?), BUT parkouring and sliding gradually - very slowly, but scaling with velocity - restore its durability up to its maximum base value. At worst, this could be an augment.

--I wanted to reward the playstyle that Nezha already lends himself to most readily, and that's constant movement. Once again, he's a squishy, squishy warframe without his rings, but his best defense is not getting hit. So why not reward playing that way, with the obvious drawback attached to standing still to balance it out?

--What I want for Nezha is simple, really. He has the makings of a true Mobility Frame - one who is constantly in motion, whose greatest defense AND offense is his sheer speed and agility. Which is why I changed everything this way - to emphasize his identity, to make it very clear that he is not an inferior copy of Rhino or Excalibur or Volt, and to give him a real niche that takes him out of the Oberon rut. Some of the values may need tweaking, having all the changes at once MIGHT be slightly overpowered, I'm not sure - but the most important aspects are really the free motion changes. The dancer, the acrobat - the warframe who can be wherever he needs to be in no time, and lay down support and force redirection. The damage changes are least important to me - first and foremost, I see Nezha as the embodiment of the Vazarin philosophy as described in flavor text: Counter The Enemy. Evade and redirect enemy force while providing mobile support.

Oh, and talking about Spears reminded me of some Atlas bits.

-Landslide can now target ragdolled enemies, including Speared ones from Nezha and ones on the ground.

-Petrify could allow free parkour like reworked Spectral, since they're the same base ability template? Unsure if OP.

Edited January 4, 2016 by FelisImpurrator

[Archwizard]

-snip-

 

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you, large blocks of text like Nezhas are difficult to decipher with my ADD. Anywho:

 

Saryn

- Toxic Lash really doesn't need to be party-wide, if it just becomes a less-niche mitigation ability (and having it be party-wide mitigation of any sizable amount would be a little OP - even Trinity needs to work up to her party mitigation buff). Same reason why I didn't put a call into the OP for her original EHP to be restored, if it could be compensated elsewhere like they wanted the blocking mechanism to be capable of (which it isn't, so long as it shunts her into running melee-only).

- Making Toxic Lash a toggle would be counterintuitive to the energy generation provided by popping Spores. For starters, I don't even think the energy generation they provide would be taken into account while TL is active; even so, unless it was a rather large amount, each pop would only serve to extend the duration of TL.

- Yes, I know, she is currently the biggest energy hog in the game, I get that. Increasing the amount of energy each Spore grants is a bandaid fix, but we need to dig a little deeper for demands. Perhaps if she was given some kind of ability comboing mechanic, like Landslide or Ripline's...?

 

Nezha

- To sum up, Nezha's not intended to be a mobility frame - he just happens to have mobility so he can be exactly where he needs to be. He's not intended to be an offensive frame, which is why his offensive scaling is pretty gimped. He's intended to be a strong support frame with tanking facets, because he's a protector god in the mythology; having him focus on running away from the fight for his own safety runs counter to that concept, whether or not he's little sturdier than Loki without abilities.

- I already have a note in the OP for Heat damage procs to stack, as a result of Ember specializing in them so thoroughly.

 

Atlas

- I legitimately believe the only reason why Landslide doesn't target ragdolled enemies is an issue with the ragdolling tech they're using, not simply an oversight of the ability.

- I don't see it as being OP, but I think we're already pushing it with removing the speed reduction. Besides, it'd look weird to have him clinging to a wall with both hands up to his face.

[taiiat]

- Yes, I know, she is currently the biggest energy hog in the game, I get that. Increasing the amount of energy each Spore grants is a bandaid fix, but we need to dig a little deeper for demands. Perhaps if she was given some kind of ability comboing mechanic, like Landslide or Ripline's...?

honestly - i cast Spores and Toxic Lash, spread Spores from my Target, and then spread more from some other Targets, and quickly am Energy positive from doing so.

and it's not that difficult to be able to manufacture Energy from this, because Spores can afflict a lot of Enemies, and cycle around Enemies.

 

so i can create a lot of Energy doing this - therefore have a hard time believing that people don't have any Energy.

Saryn's theme is 'spread it around' Poison style - if you do that, you should have plenty of Energy and plenty of Potential Energy to gain later.

 

 

 

also, if Toxic Lash was to provide Damage Reduction at all times or something to 'compensate' for less Health (or the other way round), how then, is that really different from not having Damage Reduction but more Health?

considering the mechanics of Regenerative Molt, i see no real benefit to lose Health but gain reduction on the Damage that you take to it.

 

i'd much rather have my Health back, and then Toxic Lash provide Damage Reduction at all times, of a moderate level (like 25% base. which would be 46.25% with Intensify and Transient Fortitude - i calculate a lot of things based off of this because that is a popular Power Strength choice.).

and don't lose any of the current functionality except Blocking, since the Blocking is not useful in almost any situation and too inflexible for this game.

 

and... i'm sure it was mentioned here before, Toxic Lash also having some sort of Vine+Snake(mix the visual and mechanical themes) whip thing that would be procured from this Ability and, well, lash things.

 

 

 

to get back on topic though - Spores having a Combo window like some other Abilities have now, certainly. only reducing the cost, there's no mechanics of the Ability that make sense to get increased from that Multiplier. also no mechanics that should get multiplied - the Ability is already very potent.

[Azamagon]

 

and... i'm sure it was mentioned here before, Toxic Lash also having some sort of Vine+Snake(mix the visual and mechanical themes) whip thing that would be procured from this Ability and, well, lash things.

Yeah, that was suggested a few times, and I think that sounds really cool.

 

Here's my version of it:

 

 

* Still buffs Saryn's melee weapon with the toxic proc buff, which still makes melee strikes autoproc Spores with energy-replenishment.

* The blocking bonus is changed to a plain damage-reduction bonus (which is either slightly weakened, has a cap at 75%, or has a high bonus unaffected by modding).

* In addition to buffing Saryn's melee weapon and defenses, she also summons an energy snake that swirls around her. This snake lashes out at nearby enemies at a rate of about 1,5 lashes per second. The snake has pure toxic damage, and does the same thing as your Toxic Lash melee strikes; it autopops spores and replenishes energy by doing so. The snake's damage is affected by Power Strength and its attack range (which should have a decent base range, probably even a whole bit longer than most melee weapons) is affected by Power Range.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Azamagon

[FelisImpurrator]

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you, large blocks of text like Nezhas are difficult to decipher with my ADD. Anywho:

Atlas

- I legitimately believe the only reason why Landslide doesn't target ragdolled enemies is an issue with the ragdolling tech they're using, not simply an oversight of the ability.

- I don't see it as being OP, but I think we're already pushing it with removing the speed reduction. Besides, it'd look weird to have him clinging to a wall with both hands up to his face.

Oh, I see. Sorry, I'm awful with trying to keep things short and simple.

 

Saryn:

-Honestly, I'd prefer the team buff OVER having flat, always on damage reduction for the duration - that actually would be exactly like just giving her more EHP back. The thing is, Toxic Lash is just weirdly selfish - no team synergy.

-I actually forgot about the ramifications of making it a toggle, oops. Yeah, duration is fine - as long as it has SOME team synergy capabilities or reliable survivability or something.

-Actually, ability combos were what I was getting at, partly - but not combos within a single ability. Combos between abilities. Like, having spores active within range reduces the cast cost of Miasma, or something like that. Or, Spored enemies grant energy return on Miasma as well, up to a portion of the current casting cost (making it able to fully recoup Miasma would be OP, but reclaiming, say, half would ease the pressure a LOT). I can't think of any more, but that's the direction I'd like.

-I kind of like the snake thing, but I almost wish that were a blade-and-whip style melee replacer with really, really long reach. Making it automatic would turn it into toxic Shooting Gallery on self.

 

Nezha:

-I think you misunderstood why I wanted "mobilityframe" - it's not about running away. Just the opposite. It's about protecting allies and debilitating the enemy USING mobility. Setting up slide melee. Skating in, drawing fire, skating out. Or deploying spears and running into enemies with the rings. His 1 enhances move speed; his 2 is partly a teleport; his 3 has benefits for sliding into the fray.

Just look at it visually - Halo isn't a bulwark of armor; it's a deflector shield. It redirects and takes glancing blows instead of tanking head-on. Offensive support was how I thought of him all along. Just... with more of a specific, unique identity, so people can't say "Oh, he's like Oberon, he has nothing he can do that others can't do better". But, the shortlist of most important bits:

-Channel cost and explosion scaling still needed for Firewalker.

-If Chakram doesn't get a damage boost, at least the QoL stuff where its heal radius is visible, bounce is improved, ideally 1h cast (still forgot to test whether it already is).

-Warding Halo should at least recharge from hitting enemies with it, probably up to some cap. Adds some incentive to dash into the fray and take hits meant for others, because you get some of it back. A means of regeneration that's not insanely overpowered is essential because unlike Rhino, he can't take the hit that eats the last 5% of the ring. Alternatively he could just have shieldgate that negates all overspill damage for half a second (and so could Rhino, for that matter).

-Spears are still too slow and immobile. No NT=dance in place, get shot through halo, die. I am pretty sure now that the knockdown thing is unintended, though.

 

Atlas:

-Fair point, although I'm still reporting it as a bug on the off chance that it is one. It seems on-target abilities don't detect ragdolls as targetable entities, generally, so abilities like Rest and Landslide which need target locks don't work on them.

-Hm, true. It would be silly, and Petrify does do more than Spectral. Maybe at least allow simple single hops, though, along with ground mobility.

[(PSN)JCM_Unlimited]

I can't wait for nezha

[FelisImpurrator]

Actually, you know what, after bringing Broberon out for a bit I have some quickfixes to him too.

-Hallowed Ground could stand to be a bit wider. Also, have its damage ramp up the longer an enemy stays in it.

-Throw in some Saryn-like power synergy where Hallowed Ground buffs reckoning and smite damage.

-If Renewal doesn't already, have the projectiles just go through walls on the most direct path.

-Wishful thinking, but honestly, I like his base kit enough that I don't want to sacrifice for it (although his issues really are Renewal's crap mechanics and scaling for the most part): What if he had a channeled ability that acted like an Eximus aura, cycle through with a tap like Quiver...?

[TheGrimCorsair]

Actually, you know what, after bringing Broberon out for a bit I have some quickfixes to him too.

-Hallowed Ground could stand to be a bit wider. Also, have its damage ramp up the longer an enemy stays in it.

-Throw in some Saryn-like power synergy where Hallowed Ground buffs reckoning and smite damage.

-If Renewal doesn't already, have the projectiles just go through walls on the most direct path.

-Wishful thinking, but honestly, I like his base kit enough that I don't want to sacrifice for it (although his issues really are Renewal's crap mechanics and scaling for the most part): What if he had a channeled ability that acted like an Eximus aura, cycle through with a tap like Quiver...?

Renewal does move directly towards allies through walls/terrain.

[FelisImpurrator]

Renewal does move directly towards allies through walls/terrain.

Ah. Good to know, no need to change that then. Maybe increase its velocity.

[TheGrimCorsair]

Ah. Good to know, no need to change that then. Maybe increase its velocity.

On the one hand, I do like that its velocity is slow (Renewal is basically a Paladin's "Lay on Hands," it's there to maintain himself and the battle buddies shoulder-to-shoulder, not really a save the group heal), but the fact that it drains when its in flight and Tenno are much faster than it, makes it a real pain to use a lot. The casting time/animation is by far the worst, though. :S

[FelisImpurrator]

On the one hand, I do like that its velocity is slow (Renewal is basically a Paladin's "Lay on Hands," it's there to maintain himself and the battle buddies shoulder-to-shoulder, not really a save the group heal), but the fact that it drains when its in flight and Tenno are much faster than it, makes it a real pain to use a lot. The casting time/animation is by far the worst, though. :S

Fair point. Was considering fixed time, but it could be weird. Cast time... really should be either halved or made invincible during cast as OP suggests.

[taiiat]

Cast time... really should be either halved or made invincible during cast as OP suggests.

i don't care if i'm invulnerable and a rock band jumps out and starts jamming while i'm casting Renewal.

if it still takes an eternity i'll still hate the Casting Animation.

[(PSN)IsanjiYoo]

Woaw, love the work you have put into it. And the ideas!

Keep it up!

[Archwizard]

On the one hand, I do like that its velocity is slow (Renewal is basically a Paladin's "Lay on Hands," it's there to maintain himself and the battle buddies shoulder-to-shoulder, not really a save the group heal), but the fact that it drains when its in flight and Tenno are much faster than it, makes it a real pain to use a lot. The casting time/animation is by far the worst, though. :S

 

Unfortunately, designing an ability that is supposed to encourage you to be near your allies in this manner is not an effective solution in Warframe. Hek, even Chroma offers a better model for a melee-range support skill with his Elemental Ward.

 

The top concern with Renewal is timing. The cast time is too long (although this could be said of many of the newer frames - I think someone at DE is taking too much pleasure in watching the animations over practically applying them in a combat scenario), the projectile speed is too slow (compounded by Parkour 2.0 giving Tenno literal ballistic speeds), the manner in which Duration affects it creates an inverted feedback loop...

 

Since it was turned into a toggle, I've been trying to provide solutions that work around its major limitation, that toggled skills need a reason to be toggled off. Since World on Fire and Maim, however, this has ceased to be a concern for DE. Instead of working around it, I think it's time to return to the root of the problem.

 

- Renewal no longer fires projectiles or has an infinite distance; instead, Oberon periodically releases healing pulses over a distance affected by Range while toggled active. Allies within range of Oberon will have their bleedout extended while active, even if they are bleeding out when they received the effect. No longer has a maximum Duration, or ceases to affect players at maximum health.

 

... although, since it does constitute an unlimited boost to survivability, I'm thinking it should still penalize Oberon somehow to keep it active. Something to push him into being a protector role, or at least to make sure he only taps it when the fight gets going rather than leaving up when running.

Something like a speed reduction, or maybe just a bump to the energy cost.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Archwizard

[BeardyKyle]

Oberon:

Passive: Equilibrium (health orbs also give enegy) and cleric (successfully reviving an ally gives 10% buffs to all stats)

HG range and duration increased

Duration timer slows 25% per ally and 10% per enemy on hg. Capped at 100% effectively pausing timer.

HG now gives flat 20% damage reduction or flat armor increase. Affected by strength and cannot stack.

Renewal gives Oberon 10% armor increase per ally affected while Oberon is at full health.

Casting renewal on HG does 1. Transfer hg buffs to allies via orbs. Lasts while renewal is active. 2. Orbs will revive allies in place of Oberon.

Reckoning will debuff enemy armor if they survive initial damage for 10s, enemies killed while debuffed have 50% chance to drop health.

Ash:

Passive: 20% faster knockdown recovery. Increased parry damage. Increased melee speed and damage while no primary is equipped.

Shuriken now fires one projectile that marks an enemy when hit for a short period. Recasting shuriken during this window fires rapid succession projectiles at reduced cost and increased flight speed and accuracy at marked target. Casting teleport will auto lock onto marked target regardless of aiming.

Smokescreen now cloaks ash in a smoke aura for the duration of invisibility. Enemies that enter the radius are staggered and open to finishers.

Teleport now has a window to recast for less energy and faster animation.

Bladestorm now targets 1 enemy dealing finisher damage and summons up to 3 ash clones cloaked in smoke screen. Clones have arm blades equipped and deal bladestorm finisher damage (function like specters). Clones will prioritize targets marked by shuriken. Ash functions as normal while clones are active and gains melee multiplier from clone kills

[taiiat]

Ash:

Increased Finisher damage.

Casting teleport will auto lock onto marked target regardless of aiming.

Smokescreen now cloaks ash in a smoke aura for the duration of invisibility. Enemies that enter the radius are staggered and open to finishers.

Teleport now has a window to recast for less energy and faster animation.

- Finishers already have big Multipliers - increases on top of that are unnecessary.

if we had the capability to Riposte, i'd go for increasing the usefulness of those on Ash. but we don't.

 

- do not like. would ruin the Warframe IMO. making the Warframe slow and clunky to move around Combat.

 

- Teleport already opens Enemies for Finishers. Smokescreen does not need to (and shouldn't) do this.

and on the fence for being able to reduce Energy cost on successive uses of Teleport - it's already very powerful... idunno. leaning more towards not necessary, and if it is expensive, drop the Energy cost outright to like 20E.

[Archwizard]

... although, since it does constitute an unlimited boost to survivability, I'm thinking it should still penalize Oberon somehow to keep it active. Something to push him into being a protector role, or at least to make sure he only taps it when the fight gets going rather than leaving up when running.

Something like a speed reduction, or maybe just a bump to the energy cost.

 

Something that also hit me, some kind of reduction to Oberon's damage output; for instance, making him deal a flat percentage less Physical or Weapon damage while Renewal is active, similarly to how Effigy reduces Chroma's armor by a flat percentage. This way, casting Renewal triggers a hard shift from an offensive to a defensive mode for Oberon.

 

In fact, it could arguably provide an opportunity to slightly shift the effects of all of his powers (not Equinox-level, but perhaps enhancing utility at the trade of overall damage) in one direction or other depending on whether or not Renewal is active.

 

Oberon:

Passive: Equilibrium (health orbs also give enegy) and cleric (successfully reviving an ally gives 10% buffs to all stats)

HG range and duration increased

Duration timer slows 25% per ally and 10% per enemy on hg. Capped at 100% effectively pausing timer.

HG now gives flat 20% damage reduction or flat armor increase. Affected by strength and cannot stack.

Renewal gives Oberon 10% armor increase per ally affected while Oberon is at full health.

Casting renewal on HG does 1. Transfer hg buffs to allies via orbs. Lasts while renewal is active. 2. Orbs will revive allies in place of Oberon.

Reckoning will debuff enemy armor if they survive initial damage for 10s, enemies killed while debuffed have 50% chance to drop health.

 

Problem is, a lot of this stuff is either repetitive of other frames (Equilibrium is already Equinox's passive, Avalanche and augmented Crush already debuff enemy armor) or incompatible with the current rework in the OP (where Renewal doesn't fire projectile orbs).

 

Personally, I feel like a lot of these suggestions either ultimately provide very little to Oberon himself (10% armor per ally is paltry unless you're in a raid), or overcomplicate what could be otherwise simplified mechanics (including having different Duration multipliers depending on whether the occupant is friend or foe).

 

Edit -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now, an idea I had about the image of Hallowed Ground... what if Oberon used it to issue a challenge? That enemies in HG are taunted to fight Oby (assuming he's not invisible and greater threats like Decoy or Absorb aren't active) while they're standing on it?

He creates this narrow, lit path between him and his enemy - I find it hard to believe that, visually speaking, this wasn't the intent.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Archwizard

[BeardyKyle]

Cant quote you on mobile but about the 10% armor buff on renewal. It works out to 10% for Oberon solo and an added 10% per ally, even in a 4 person squad that's more than what current HG armor buff without mods would be (40% armor from renewal + % damage reduction from hg isn't bad, in addition to transferring proc immunity to allies not on hg) and don't forget renewal still heals. In raids that doubles to around 80% armor which stacks with damage reduction from my HG idea and with the revival-orbs synergy I suggest, I think its pretty good. Remember, the goal is just to tweak him slightly so he's more team usable. These changes would help him scale better at higher levels while keeping it challenging. Allowing you to play as a damage dealer/cc at low-mid level, and having a unique and useful hg+renewal combo at high level to be a tank/support.

I overlooked equinox and avalanche's abilities and agree that Oberon shouldn't be made more like existing effects but should be as unique as possible.

[Necrius]

What "victories so far" mean?

[taiiat]

What "victories so far" mean?

adjustments made to Warframes that achieve some or all of the goals that Archwizard feels are appropriate for a Warframe.

[Archwizard]

Cant quote you on mobile but about the 10% armor buff on renewal. It works out to 10% for Oberon solo and an added 10% per ally, even in a 4 person squad that's more than what current HG armor buff without mods would be (40% armor from renewal + % damage reduction from hg isn't bad, in addition to transferring proc immunity to allies not on hg) and don't forget renewal still heals. In raids that doubles to around 80% armor which stacks with damage reduction from my HG idea and with the revival-orbs synergy I suggest, I think its pretty good. Remember, the goal is just to tweak him slightly so he's more team usable. These changes would help him scale better at higher levels while keeping it challenging. Allowing you to play as a damage dealer/cc at low-mid level, and having a unique and useful hg+renewal combo at high level to be a tank/support.

 

Oberon has 150 armor base. That comes out to 150/450 = 33.3% damage reduction. 10% of this is 15 armor.

Armor   Prot    Mult HP

▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄

150     33.33%  1.50x (Inactive)

165     35.48%  1.55x (Solo)

180     37.50%  1.60x

195     39.39%  1.65x

210     41.18%  1.70x (Party of 4)

225     42.86%  1.75x

240     44.44%  1.80x

255     45.95%  1.85x

270     47.37%  1.90x (Raid of 8)

As you can see here, the actual effective health gain per affected target is 3.3%, capping out at 13.3% for a party of 4. Compared to most sources of mitigation just to start with, it's pretty weak - and remember, Warcry gives 50% armor off the bat, on a frame with 600 armor to start with.

 

With maximum armor mods (Steel Fiber and Armored Agility), that's 382.5/682.5 = ~56% damage reduction. 10% of this is ~38 armor.

Armor   Prot    Mult HP

▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄

382     56.01%  2.27x (Inactive)

420     58.33%  2.40x (Solo)

458     60.42%  2.53x

496     62.31%  2.65x

534     64.03%  2.78x (Party of 4)

572     65.60%  2.91x

610     67.03%  3.03x

648     68.35%  3.16x

686     69.57%  3.29x (Raid of 8)

 

Technically it should go to 688 but my calculator doesn't take decimals well for the moment. A margin of 2 armor points is functionally insignificant.

Bit better here, with an effective health gain closer to 5% per target, but this is with you throwing in everything short of Power Strength mods.

 

Yes, it's better than Oberon has now, but with his low armor base, playing into his armor is rather small pickings.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Archwizard

[taiiat]

-snip-

thank you kindly for feeling up to writing out the math for Armor.

Players in this game EXTREMELY DRASTICALLY overestimate Armor. if i had a Nickel for every time someone said 'this Warframe is weak, give it more Armor' - jesus christ. i could retire.

[Sorise]

^Did they say the same about Nezha?