Rakosta_Kai Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 The fact that you're getting upvotes disappoints me, a bit. It was a very clear-cut issue with a very clear-cut solution that was muddied up by DE making a wishy-washy decision instead of making a clear point of all stats are gone, or simply separating the stats and the cosmetics, which I should add is what largely what was wanted. You also can't be elitist and smug about items you have and others done while still saying that 'whiners' were the cause of the schism in the first place. That's like saying that protesters wanting higher wages and instead getting longer hours is 'their fault' because it's 'what they wanted.' It's not, someone higher up misunderstood or just didn't bother. With respect... You are wrong on almost every count. The issue was never clear cut. Whiners (which is what someone is who complains without a valid reason to do so) chose to make their case with a whole host of complaints about the Vanguard helmet and it's need for a nerf. Some people with some measure of skewed value assessment lent more value to a Rush mod in comparison to the benefits they were receiving from helms that gave a measure of Stretch, Flow, Intensify, Streamline and etc. Much more rare mods with an actual effect on gameplay. Interspersed here and there was the idea of making the items truly cosmetic and making the stats separate regardless of the helmet. What was never considered was that there are frames that don't have helms with stats and that DE made a business decision to stop releasing such helms. Also the upvotes and the majority of the complaints were pointed directly at the Vanguard Helmet. If you are mad about it, get mad at the posters who muddled the point of your argument. What also wasn't largely considered was the fact that if they start nerfing one, they are going to nerf all of them as these are sold items. I say it wasn't largely considered because I considered it and said as much. So... No, I am not surprised by the outcome. DE really does listen to complaints, and really does work to address the base issues. If players don't find a way to make their needs known in a: coherent format without petty agendas with an eye toward improving the game or QoL with one voice You are going to see stuff like this occur again and again. You can call me smug if you like because I am. I foresaw this one coming and said as much. I've been touting "Be careful what you wish for" for some time now. But don't call me elitist... Because I didn't ask for this. Folks like you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 You'd think that real money would mean something to a business. In a normal business, when people buy something from you, it's a signal to keep producing that product. In video games, it's a signal that people are enjoying the game too much. Fun not allowed! Pure genius. DE didn't do this... The players did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechdeus Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 I was hoping they would attach the stats as an unlock to choose from, so that you would still have to get the alert or buy the helmet in order to have access to the bonus but could then pick and choose the cosmetic and the bonus. With this change I'll still be using helmets I don't like the look of as much, like Nyx's Vespa. I also missed the last couple Aurora helmet alerts because they both occurred while I was sleeping, so I'll be a little sad if I don't get a stat one before this change happens even if the Squall helmet is better anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaskadar Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 They should have nerfed the bacon helmet anyways, regardless of what people do or say. It should have been a 10% bonus to start with, not a ludicrous 25% bonus. Eugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illuminatus51 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 snip Since you're basing everything on people's complaining on the Vanguard helmet, I'll say this. Yeah, I'm upset people muddled down the validity of my points from earlier because of the Vanguard. That said, you based nearly everything you said on counteracting me based on those same muddled down ideas, so it's a self-defeating point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Since you're basing everything on people's complaining on the Vanguard helmet, I'll say this. Yeah, I'm upset people muddled down the validity of my points from earlier because of the Vanguard. That said, you based nearly everything you said on counteracting me based on those same muddled down ideas, so it's a self-defeating point. If that's the limit of what you saw then you missed the point. Now you are just sniping at me as the source of the problem. Which means, in truth, you can't see the source of the problem. Which, funnily enough, was also highlighted in my original and reply posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Or the Devs realized the stat boosting helms were a bad idea and they have been considering what to do about it for some time. Considering none of the newer frames has stats on any of the helms, this is probably a safe assumption. So consider yourself lucky that they let the stats stay on the legacy helmets at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFCfilmz Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 What is the bacon helm? whats its ingame name I have no idea what you guys are talking about lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Talia. Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It boggles my mind why this decision makes some players feel outraged. You asked for the helmets not have any stats. You got it. You asked for removal of the stats on helmets that already have. You got it. But that's not enough, besides from not wanting stats on YOUR helmet, you don't want other players WHO WANT stats on helmets to have them. You want to enforce your idea of balance down other people's throat. Its really a shame that now because of the whiners, cosmetic items will never have stats again in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faustias Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) I won't be mad about removal of stats... Even for Vanguard. It'll be sad though that there are very efficient helmets that doesn't induce community whining like Coil, Essence, Swindle, Squall, and Pendragon-- which will also be removed. Edited March 22, 2014 by faustias Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 What is the bacon helm? whats its ingame name I have no idea what you guys are talking about lol Rhino's Vanguard helmet. Acts as a mid-grade Rush mod. Some call it the bacon helmet because it has a chrome leaf on each side of it's head. It also make Rhino look thinner to me for some reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 What is the bacon helm? whats its ingame name I have no idea what you guys are talking about lol rhino vanguard helm... I guess it reminds people of breakfast food... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ailith Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Problems with helms with stats: -not everyone likes every helmet design, but the stats are desired (in some cases, necessary) -some are flat out better than the alternatives -come with a benefit and a drawback Problems with statless helms: -no stats (by extension, less build optimization) -frames like Valkyr and Zephyr gain no benefit from any alternate helm (this will be true for all future frames as well) Stats should be a toggle-able option on your frame as long as you've crafted the required helmet, the helmets will then simply act as cosmetic items. The reasoning would be along the lines of "you've acquired and created this technology which can augment your stats, we've now optimized it to be part of your entire frame's systems. Yes, you can still wear the fancy hat if you really want to." Edited March 22, 2014 by Ailith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritchel Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) you all going to get a helm with stats and chose to remove it if you like in the future the new players will be jelly but, all i care is...i already have all the statte'd helms muahahahahahahaa huahuhauhaa -owait, it'll be better if we could actually decide the stats for the helm as we desire Edited March 22, 2014 by Ritchel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ensignvidiot Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It boggles my mind why this decision makes some players feel outraged. You asked for the helmets not have any stats. You got it. You asked for removal of the stats on helmets that already have. You got it. Thats the thing, *I* didnt ask for these changes, *I* didnt want them. And now i either have to give up on getting any stat helmets i dont have, or spend a chunk of my paycheck to get them (which is probably the goal at any rate). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashashou Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Some people want stats, some people don't. Why don't we just have both? Make them toggleable. That way both sides are happy. DE would call you too sane ! and it's too easy of a solution for them i would add , another selection to the helm- external mask and internal systems ; systems being the stats with the option of non stats Edited March 22, 2014 by Ravel7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinematic_30FPS Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 It boggles my mind why this decision makes some players feel outraged. Well, it shouldn't boggle your mind because there are multiple very strong reasons why this decision is completely stupid: 1. It does absolutely nothing to fix the main problem with stat helms where you want the stat boost of one helm, but the looks of another. I would love to ditch Loki's Essense helm, but I can't do so without gimping him in a major way. 2. It locks newer players out of the best possible Warframe builds, and possibly opens the door for discrimination against them. I can already imagine that we will start seeing messages in recruiting like this: "Hosting _____, looking for Trinity (MUST have stat Aura helm)". See the problem here? 3. It is confusing, especially to newer players (Why is his Rhino way faster than mine?, Why can his Loki keep his cloak up way longer than mine?) 4. It is a pretty lazy solution. DE either needs to make the difficult decision to remove stats from all helmets, or actually go thru the effort of seperating stats from helmets. Instead it seems that DE wants to remove stats from all helmets, but they also do not want to deal with any negative backlash from doing so. DE needs to learn that they can't have their cake and eat it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SALE94 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) It boggles my mind why this decision makes some players feel outraged. You asked for the helmets not have any stats. You got it. You asked for removal of the stats on helmets that already have. You got it. But that's not enough, besides from not wanting stats on YOUR helmet, you don't want other players WHO WANT stats on helmets to have them. You want to enforce your idea of balance down other people's throat. Its really a shame that now because of the whiners, cosmetic items will never have stats again in this game. +1 Buddy ^^. . I would love to ditch Loki's Essense helm, but I can't do so without gimping him in a major way. This bolded means you want but you cant resist having boost/advantage you see you are just corrupted smurf as i am. Nobody forces you people too use them (with removal of stats or without), nobody forces you too ever wear them, just dont and be happy with morals. And *evil smurfs* like i am will still wear it end of story. So everyone who ever used any helm for sole purpose of advantage not looks at all they are corrupted myself included. Edited March 22, 2014 by SALE94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyDragon Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Seems a bit dense and a giant F*** you to newer players to go "we offered these helmets which became integral to certain builds, however, you can no longer obtain them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinematic_30FPS Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 . I would love to ditch Loki's Essense helm, but I can't do so without gimping him in a major way. This bolded means you want but you cant resist having boost/advantage you see you are just corrupted smurf as i am. Nobody forces you people too use them (with removal of stats or without), nobody forces you too ever wear them, just dont and be happy with morals. Yeah I am so corrupted because I choose the best possible build for my Warframe (*gasp*). You are right, I should purposely gimp myself and force my teamates to suffer because of "morals" (wtf does that have to do with stats on helmets?). Because at the end of the day, I play video games to show how righteous I am, and not for fun or enjoyment or anything like that. So everyone who ever used any helm for sole purpose of advantage not looks at all they are corrupted myself included. Yeah I guess everyone is corrupted then because they use guns for "for sole purpose of advantage not looks". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SALE94 Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) No guns are made with preference, alt helmets like aura are pure advantage. Preference = penta= soma= latron. Stat helmets = advantage Non stat alt helmets = only look / So no you are not corrupted because of guns, playing smart and picking advantage is not bad but some think it is bad, and they keep screaming morals. I only posted this, because you seem too fit in that description (moralist) but i dont think so anymore. So i guess we are similiar. Edited March 22, 2014 by SALE94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPiRALFACToR Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) everyone who wanted stats removed or nerfed pretty much brought this on themselves. i said this might happen in one of the many nerf rhino helm threads a couple weeks ago. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/193756-so-de-when-are-you-going-to-split-stats-aesthetic-from-alternate-equipment/#entry2261924 Edited March 22, 2014 by SPiRALFACToR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 Old helmets are loosing stat probs cause players are swinging to frames that have those helm stats cause they end up being "better" than the new frames that dont have that option. So from now on new players are going to have frames on an even field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeAura Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 (edited) Yes, you can still wear the fancy hat if you really want to." Best comment. As far as I see it, stat helmets were originally something just a little special that were added to make frames more unique from each other in terms of. well. stats. They shouldn't be shared between frames that rather defeats the purpose of being unique little tweaks. No one would ever have the efficiency of Loki or Nyx, or the Energy Max of Ember. Or would be quite like Forst/Volt at dishing out damage. For the most part, they were boosts that associated well with the frame. Where they really went wrong was the balancing of them all so that no helmet(Bacon helm) was boosting a frame in a direction that it never should have gone in in the first place. Nor would any one appear grossly more powerful than another for the benefit vs drawback it would give to their respective frames, again, Bacon helm. Vauban and nova are casters, yet they each have a helmet that suggests a more physical nature in increasing stamina. Rhino is a tank, but vanguard suggested he was more a sprinter. The Locust helmet of Ash suggested he was a caster that didn't focus on speed. Exca had good ones in design, Shields over Health as a mobile scout, and power strength as a more offensive role. They just needed a little balancing/changing, to be separated from the helmets so we could have our favorite cosmetic and our stat, and kept to their own frames. Edited March 22, 2014 by LukeAura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arunafeltz Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 If they really have not forgotten this alternate helm issue and are actually going to introduce a solution for this, I take back all the S#&$ I said regarding this and will hold my peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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