[Heresy] Change The Way Iron Skin Works?

[[DE]Momaw]

So I got my Rhino Prime. And there's kind of an issue with iron skin, I think.  The issue is that it's a magnitude based ability. At low levels, iron skin makes you invincible because nothing can do enough damage fast enough to kill you in the brief times between you having it active.  Then you go to super high level content, and iron skin lasts all of two seconds because enemies just do way too much damage to tank, and the ability becomes just a way to run through a doorway without getting knocked down.

 

So I'm trying to think of a way to make this situation better, and I would like to propose this:

 

1* Iron Skin makes you immune to knockdown, control effects, stuns, etc, all the things it currently does

 

2* It will last some duration regardless of how much damage it takes

 

3* It works by throttling or limiting incoming damage. You take damage while iron skin is active, but you can never take more than some amount. Let's say hypothetically 100 damage per second, before resistances. Any damage higher than 100 will simply be shrugged off and ignored.  This means that Rhino can still be injured and killed while he has iron skin active...eventually.  Because your rate of damage taken is limited, your survivability under fire is enormous without becoming absolute invulnerability.

 

 

Thoughts?

[Imaru]

This is going to be very attractive to flamers, but I love the idea of Rhino not being immortal. He should be able to die but not easily, just as you described.

[LordMidnightX]

hmm I like your way of reworking it, I don't think it will happen but I like it

[Ov3rd0se]

He's fine the way he is.

[Angius]

He's fine the way he is.

This

[SquirmyBurrito]

I don't like it. He's fine as is, there really is no reason for him to become even MORE powerful than he already is.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

This is going to be very attractive to flamers, but I love the idea of Rhino not being immortal. He should be able to die but not easily, just as you described.

Here's the deal, Rhino's not immortal. If you think he is, you haven't taken him to Nuovo.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Here's the deal, Rhino's not immortal. If you think he is, you haven't taken him to Nuovo.

 

I don't think anyone (in here) claimed that he was.

[Guristas]

1: No

 

2: This is how Iron Skin used to function and was changed by DE for........... reasons

 

3: this is what DE changed it too initially before it received enough flak that it was changed to how we know it now

 

Personally, I try to fit enough power strength as I can in my Rhino

 

Maybe if you change it around so it scales with enemy level; The higher the level of enemies you face, the more protection Iron Skin would give by a factor of (insert equation here).

 

Yet again, I'm perfectly fine with the way it currently is

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I don't think anyone (in here) claimed that he was.

Other than the guy I literally quoted in the post you replied to, that is?

[SquirmyBurrito]

Other than the guy I literally quoted in the post you replied to, that is?

 

He/She said they loved the idea of Rhino not being immortal. Perceived implications are not claims.

[[DE]Momaw]

The problem is that Rhino is both immortal AND not tough enough, depending what end of the level spectrum you look at. At low levels he is functionally immune to all enemy activity which is boring. And at high levels he is forced to rely heavily on his ult just to stay alive because iron skin ceases to be of any practical use when enemies chew through it almost as fast as you can cast it.

My suggestion to let iron skin function as a regulator on incoming damage lets it be relevant and useful at both ends of the spectrum without granting level-agnostic godmode...

[RealPandemonium]

Here's the deal, Rhino's not immortal. If you think he is, you haven't taken him to Nuovo.

And you probably don't equip Flame Repellent.

[Ttariel]

The idea itself is not bad, but putting it on Rhino is. The frame is already looked down at because it has many upsides. Giving him another would just start the biggest flamewar since 1834.

[GrosslyIncandescent1709]

The problem is that Rhino is both immortal AND not tough enough, depending what end of the level spectrum you look at. At low levels he is functionally immune to all enemy activity which is boring. And at high levels he is forced to rely heavily on his ult just to stay alive because iron skin ceases to be of any practical use when enemies chew through it almost as fast as you can cast it.

My suggestion to let iron skin function as a regulator on incoming damage lets it be relevant and useful at both ends of the spectrum without granting level-agnostic godmode...

your idea is good but as you can see most players don't like the idea of rhino loosing his godmode for everything except endless modes... which is a shame, cause your idea would allow rhino to fulfill his supposed role even in higher levels.

[genclaymore]

So I got my Rhino Prime. And there's kind of an issue with iron skin, I think.  The issue is that it's a magnitude based ability. At low levels, iron skin makes you invincible because nothing can do enough damage fast enough to kill you in the brief times between you having it active.  Then you go to super high level content, and iron skin lasts all of two seconds because enemies just do way too much damage to tank, and the ability becomes just a way to run through a doorway without getting knocked down.

 

So I'm trying to think of a way to make this situation better, and I would like to propose this:

 

1* Iron Skin makes you immune to knockdown, control effects, stuns, etc, all the things it currently does

 

2* It will last some duration regardless of how much damage it takes

 

3* It works by throttling or limiting incoming damage. You take damage while iron skin is active, but you can never take more than some amount. Let's say hypothetically 100 damage per second, before resistances. Any damage higher than 100 will simply be shrugged off and ignored.  This means that Rhino can still be injured and killed while he has iron skin active...eventually.  Because your rate of damage taken is limited, your survivability under fire is enormous without becoming absolute invulnerability.

 

 

Thoughts?

No the skill already doesn't last as long as it used to, Rhino is meant to take less damage, to take fire away from other players. Why must every one ruin rhino just because they feel less people should be using them. If they do a change like your talking, I would just stop playing warframe, as then that leave me with Ash warframe that I like for it purpose.

Edited March 22, 2014 by genclaymore

[yles9056]

How about this:

 

Change Rhino Charge into a self speed buff(high increment but short duration), which also gives you the ability to knockdown all enemies in your way.

 

On the other hand, Iron Skin reduces Rhino's speed.

 

Using one of them will cancel the other one.

[SquirmyBurrito]

How about this:

 

Change Rhino Charge into a self speed buff(high increment but short duration), which also gives you the ability to knockdown all enemies in your way.

 

On the other hand, Iron Skin reduces Rhino's speed.

 

Using one of them will cancel the other one.

 

How about no. Rhino is already fast enough.

[Kwinne]

Guys.

 

That Frost Snowglobe change?

 

Guys.

 

Lets just do that to Iron skin.

 

Guys.

[neKroMancer]

I think a mixed duration/HP design of Snowglobe has potential to make ironskin more viable in higher level. Give it 4-5 second of invulnerability(not affected by mod) + HP(affected by mod) should make ironskin more valuable in high level.

 

Immortal in low level and durable enough to take the heat in T3. 

[Cpl_Facehugger]

He/She said they loved the idea of Rhino not being immortal. Perceived implications are not claims.

If he didn't think Rhino was immortal, why in Ruk's name would he have said what he did? I mean, seriously, Rhino isn't immortal above level 20. He's tough - as literally everything about him says he should be - but if you screw up you can very easily get downed.

Right now, Rhino isn't immortal. Therefore, saying "I like the idea of rhino not being immortal so I think these changes are a great idea" is meaningless because he's not immortal now.

[letir]

% Resist is best solution. Something about 70-80% in the end.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

% Resist is best solution. Something about 70-80% in the end.

That was attempted back when iron skin was nerfed from actual invicibility. As it turns out, even 85% iron skin wasn't enough to deal with high level enemies way back when, and it generally resulted in people putting Rhino back into the closet in hopes he'd get buffed back into usefulness later.

[Toom1275]

That was attempted back when iron skin was nerfed from actual invicibility. As it turns out, even 85% iron skin wasn't enough to deal with high level enemies way back when, and it generally resulted in people putting Rhino back into the closet in hopes he'd get buffed back into usefulness later.

The problem with the % was that with the more damage coming in, the more that got past still got higher. It just delayed the point at which the damage became too ridiculous.

OP's suggestion is to have a flat value as the damage cap, which is different from a percentage.

 

 

For my opinion on this idea...

100 damage per second threshold sounds a bit too high. Without a Redirection, that's three seconds until Rhino's taking health hits. With one, only a few more seconds than that. Not much more useful than not having iron Skin at all.

 

However, if the damage cap were to be tweaked lower a bit (probably needing a few rounds of hotfixes in the interim as the optimal number is dialed in) this could be a viable option. No immortality, and no more uselessness at high levels when protection is needed the most. Maybe also make it effected by power strength as well, just because.

It also brings back power-duration requirements to the Rhino build, adding more modding tactics needed. Currently, Rhino has no real downside to just slapping on a Fleeting Expertise without a duration mod. Sure, Rhino Charge becomes the hilarious one-inch punch, but thrak mostly cancels the need to use it for mobility.

 

I HAVE heard of some materials that stiffen up more the harder it is impacted, so from a pseudo-physics standpoint, an Iron Skin that lets lower damage levels in while capping higher levels is not completely silly.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Toom1275

[[DE]Momaw]

For my opinion on this idea...

100 damage per second threshold sounds a bit too high. Without a Redirection, that's three seconds until Rhino's taking health hits. With one, only a few more seconds than that. Not much more useful than not having iron Skin at all.

 

Well.   If you put a maxed Redirection on Rhino, he has 1110 shields.  That's 11 seconds of direct exposure to any amount of enemy fire before he starts taking health damage. And then you have the sentinel power Guardian, that instantly zaps your shields up to full if they fail, so now you're up to 22 seconds of wading through hell before you take any health damage.

 

If anything, 100 hp is too low of a cap. I just threw it out there for the sake of illustration. :)