Please Balance Warframes Hp, Shield And Armor, Especially To Survive Nightmare Mode.

[RealPandemonium]

The reason the tankier frames are the most used is because they are easy to use, I have said before and will say again Rhino is a great crutch for new players he is easy to use in almost any situation.

 

I have ran nightmare missions with the least tanky frames in the game and have gotten through them with ease.

[HappyApathy]

Your point is kind of invalid to some warframes I suggested, your using a frame that has good mob control skills. Tell me later when you tried the others.

 

Without the HP/shield buff, all the other warframes are seen obsolete to Rhino at most because he has all the good stats while others frames either have equal or lower stats for survival. New comers will not choose the other frames for good reasons. Except Nekros because Descrating for loot. Trinity however is unobtainable for now, that frame used to be chosed the most among Rhino which I have seen in public due to healing. Excalibur is basically abandoned.

 

I don't use chaos or absorb a lot actually when soloing nightmare, just good old fashioned not been seen and quick kills, if I have to cast chaos its because I screwed up already, I actually consider energy drain to be one of the easier conditions for me, it doesn't force me to hurry or compromise my health, using a well modded bow and a bit of patience I can quite efficiently take down enemies without drawing attention or having to rely on abilities.

 

Relying on health/shields while trying to blast your way through the level is a very poor approach to nightmare missions, arguably having to rely on abilities is also a hindrance in case energy drain occurs, what seems to work best is a powerful burst-damage (one-shot one kill) weapon and a cautious conservative approach where you truly 'ninja' your way through the mission to avoid any sort of prolonged combat.

[dikki]

Been running NM missions with my excal once polarized boltor and dex furis. Sometimes I end up using all my revives and sometimes I just sail through the mission and it's always up to what kind of NM settings are running. Don't know what's the point of changing anything. In a group where all are cautious and no rambos running around things get pretty simple really. Isn't the point of the mode quite simple, make rushing not so smart thing to do and playing like a ninja? Imo this is how the game should be at end game missions. 

 

If someone in here remembers how Diablo 2 changed drastically after the update where they introduced synergies between different skills, they made the end game really really much harder than it was before. So basically you had to be really farmed and beefed up to be able to complete the game on your own, while the rest of the players had to rely on team work to be able to progress. Goddamn those lightning spirits in act5 were pain in the &#!!

[Seasonsofclarity]

You mean game the system. 

 

What you're suggesting isn't careful or skillful play being rewarded, that's exploiting poor AI and lvl design to circumvent the artificial difficulty of a game mode. 

 

That's entirely different.

TIL tactics = gaming the system.

 

Sorry kiddo.  No exploits, no bugs, no maphacks, no pathfinding tricks.

 

Just properly learning how to use cover, enemy reloads, and abilities.  I do it on all my frames.  Mag was simply the example of the worst frame I did so on.

[RustyNaps]

No™

[LGear]

Pictures speak a thousand words, so I did a Nightmare Sabotage mission in Armaros, Europa using my Excalibur (Pubbie joined later in the match, turns out I forgot to set my game to solo). No revives used throughout the match, though there were several close calls.

 

 

Warframes don't need buffs for Nightmare, they just need to be played cautiously by well-prepared and well-kitted players.

[Tatersail]

this is a stupid post..

 

use control abilitys.  don't just tank the damage.

 

there should be a 3rd option

 

Survival skills - like heals, iron skin, molt etc

Escape skills -  like embers accelerant aoe stun, banshee's push

Control skills - like Nyx Chaos, Rhinstomp, Excals Radial blind, Vauban Bastille

 

 

 

Excalibur is easy the strongest contender for running nightmares, since 1 Excal can mash radial blind and remove... combat... making all players invisible,  then all players really need to avoid is the odd grenade from gineer and slaughter at there pleasure.

 

 

Trinity is pretty decent, just keep blessing running 100% of the time, and the team takes no damage,but you need to take cover when casting blessing between cooldowns.

 

 

Rhino can stunlock in a radius using Stomp.

 

Saryn can sort of stun lock,as canother frames with slight stuns.

 

 

your doing nightmares .... the wrong way, look at control and killing fast instead of trying to tank damage without shields

Edited April 3, 2014 by Tatersail

[Tsukinoki]

@Makemap

The frames don't need changed at all to handle nightmare as long as you don't just run into the middle of a room and stand there shooting at thing and hoping they die.

Even with no shields its easily doable to handle a nightmare mission solo with Nekros, Ember, or Excalibur as long as you're careful and avoid unnecessary fire-fights with heavy units.

All of the nightmare missions are *easily* solo-able if you actually take time and don't try to face-tank every enemy you come across and stand there shooting at things. Play smarter not harder. Use your abilities, don't engage every last enemy that you come across if you don't have to.

If you can use abilities: use them as much as you can.

If you cant (due to energy drain) and are in a caster frame: then use cover, move quickly, and focus on killing the heavies first.

If you're going into a nightmare mission you'll need to build your frame differently than normal missions (which should be obvious):

-Use utility mods:

Rush, Quick Rest, and Marathon are a must, even Handspring is useful in NM missions depending on faction.

These aren't just for rushing through mobs but for getting to cover when you need it.

-Equip survivability mods:

-Use cover whenever possible.

Never stand in the middle of the room shooting at enemies like you would in a normal mission.

-If you're going into a nightmare alert (no shields gaurenteed) then build for health and remove all shield mods. You should also be in the mentality to avoid huge groups and just leave them alone.

This should be obvious though.

Also bring your best weapons if you dont think you can handle it and you can still mow your way through the entire map with little difficulty.

Things are harder in a no energy mutator but it still boils down to:

-Use cover

-Play smart

You seem to want to play all frames the same (Eg: face tank everything) which does not work in nightmare missions.

You need to learn how to play them in nightmare missions and how to use cover and range to your advantage.

And you need to realize that you can avoid a lot of enemies and fly through missions if you cant handle killing them. Its not that hard to do.

Edited April 3, 2014 by Tsukinoki

[Makemap]

Well I'm not only talking about Nightmare only(why you guys assuming that)... I know for sure "Ember" has the hardest time surviving because Overheat got changed.  She has to run to enemies with World on Fire. This isn't only about normal missions where you always need to stealth kill. There is Defense, and Survival, also now a new harder mission called Interception.Her fireball seriously need an added knockdown proc just like the Bombards now.(Why they buff them, but not Embers first skill?)

Edited April 3, 2014 by Makemap

[DarkLizalfos]

Stats are bullS#&$. There are no rules in any part of it. The only answer is that they were blind picked.

[Monolake]

Shieldless NM is unbalanced (or balanced for few specific frames only) and shouldnt be a reference. 

If a frame makes shieldless NM effortless, its more likely OP. 

[gamefreak9149]

Well I'm not only talking about Nightmare only(why you guys assuming that)... I know for sure "Ember" has the hardest time surviving because Overheat got changed.  She has to run to enemies with World on Fire. This isn't only about normal missions where you always need to stealth kill. There is Defense, and Survival, also now a new harder mission called Interception.Her fireball seriously need an added knockdown proc just like the Bombards now.(Why they buff them, but not Embers first skill?)

Because of your title and the examples you provided. The title being "Please Balance Warframes Hp, Shield And Armor, Especially To Survive Nightmare Mode", so we have two very good reasons to assume this.

 

So again nightmare mode is a meant to be unfair and painful if you want to face tank everything. So stop trying to play every frame the exact same why as you do on Rhino.  Use cover, bring shield, power, and health restores. Try different methods of mod setups with frames. Like for excal setup for radical blind spam. Loki with max duration for stealth is broken beyond words. Heck vauban with max duration and or range on Bastille with cost efficiency close to 70% is amazing and just fun to do. Just keep throwing them out in front of you from behind cover or around a corner. Heck try stealth for a change.

Edited April 4, 2014 by gamefreak9149

[MrJxt]

Um no, have you calculated HP/shield?

 

300 x 440% = 1320

450 x 440% = 1980

That is boost of 640 HP which can save the squishier warframes live right there.

 

Anyone seriously tried soloing with Ember on an Invasion map right against lvl 20's(Those dam Heavies + Eviscetor). I think the Grineers seriously need a nerf.

 

This is not only about nightmare mode guys. Seriously Solo with the other frames especially Ember who has no go mob control skills. My Ember was rank 13 and I'm already having a hard time against lvl 20 Heavies(Forma 4 times already).

 

Yes, No Shield has to go.

I've soloed invasions and T3 void missions with unranked warframes with no skills equipped. I don't have either maxed redirection or vitality.

 

The fact that you think grineers seriously need a nerf tells me that you're either bad at this game or you just blindly run into them guns blazing. If you take advantage of maintaining distance and using cover against heavies and eviscerators then they shouldn't pose a big threat. After all, heavies and eviscerators shoots projectiles unlike elite lancers/troopers/gunners that have hit-scan weapons.

 

Have YOU calculated shield/hp? You cannot achieve values of 1320 shield/hp from 300 shield/hp or 1980hp/shield from 450shield/hp

current hp/shield  + (base* mod modifiers)

300 + (100*4.4) = 740

450 + (150*4.4) = 1110

 

1170 - 740 = 370 difference, which won't help that much

Edited April 4, 2014 by MrJxt

[Achronus]

I rather liked the suggestion mid way through this thread about fixing no Shield and energy drain NM.

 

No shield becomes: Double damage (as you are meant to have both having them eaten twice as fast puts frames like mag back in)

No energy becomes: double costs (thus even the most caster of frames can still cast... occasionally)

 

As to the original poster, I think you went a bit overboard on the stats buffing, Most frames have an even amount into all stats then a buff on one stat to set it apart. Some few frames have a negative on a stat to give a secondary buff or boost the main buff.

 

I DO however have some problems with a few frames (you KNOW which they are) that have boosted stats in more than one area for no, or negligible, loss in general.

 

Enter Primes... I have no problem what so ever with these guys being without peer; they ARE Orokin tech after all.

(Hopes and prays for a Banshee Prime with 125+ shields)

[Katotsu]

 

Except when those who play nightmare just select a Loki or Rhino and walk through the lvl with no difficulty at all. It's not Nightmare, when it's no more difficult than normal with both of those frames. 

 

No shield mode is pointless in Nightmare, it's silly given that it doesn't actually make the thing more challenging. Just frustrating with some frames, and makes no difference with others. 

 

This.

 

And it also applies to Energy Drain mode.  Both of these serve to remove a large chunk of the game's intended balance between frames, as well as rendering certain mods useless or a lot less effective.  Both should be replaced with things that accomplish the same goal, but don't go against the game's design.  Instead of No Shield Mode, there should be a high damage mode.  High damage will eat through shields, health, and Iron Skin faster, so it achieves the same goal of "play smart or die", but leaves shields in the equation.  And energy drain should go for an efficiency debuff.  That would allow skills to still be used, but just less often.  All mods dedicated to powers would therefore remain effective, and frames that give up durability for powers still have access to their powers.

 

Y'know, that's a good idea.  I'd love to see that in place, would remove next to all of my complaints.  Except that armor is useless with the current damage system, which is the bigger point trying to be made in this thread.  Just modify one number in the damage formula, effectively double all armor stats in game; bring Valkyr's armor back down to 280 cause it won't need to be so high.

[Dalu__Ka]

Nope.

If nightmare is to hard, you need to practice more. Nightmare was put in the game for people who know what they are doing.