The Dragon Nikana Really Isn't That Good

[TheJiggliestPoo]

Thread moved to https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/217252-buff-dragon-nikana-now-with-a-little-math-and-videos/

 

now with more information for a much better discussion than just emotional responses

 

*(Disclaimer, this does not account for stealth multipliers and all tests are done without any ability buffs or channeling)

 

I want to like it but I just can't. For a mastery 8 weapon, it's damage is subpar even though the stats look great due to poor hidden multipliers in the stance and the stance overall damage output. But along with this, it has a mediocre attack speed and doesn't offer any mobility. In fact it has one of the lowest mobility for a melee weapon.

 

Compare this to the Dakra Prime. While the Dakra Prime seemingly has lower base damage, same base attack speed, and lower crit damage, it VASTLY out performs the Dragon Nikana with its combos due to Crimson Dervish. Crimson Dervish is godsend. Even though it supposingly reduces attackspeed, I could actually use both fury and berserker (Sacrificing 2 slots for pure damage) which allows great coptering (The nikana cannot copter at all. It is one of the worst copter weapons). But the most important part was when I tried fighting the toughest relative mob in the void, the Heavy Gunners, and found that even with double attackspeed mods, I completely CHUNK the Heavy Gunners shredding them to death in 3 hits with the easy to use combo (no need to pause) . In comparison, with the Dragon Nikana, no matter what I build, extra attackspeed, pure damage, it always kills in almost half or more than half the speed of the Dakra Prime. 

 

TL;DR: Buff Tranquil Cleave/Dragon Nikana innate copter.

 

*For a weapon with one of the fewest mobility that is focused around damage (not even cc) it does significantly less damage the Dakra Prime, along with a very inefficient stance/combo. 

 

Damage Pictures: http://imgur.com/a/6OA5c

 

Video Coming up (Making it now)

Edited April 17, 2014 by TheJiggliestPoo

[Pandoran_Stallion]

...85 damage is sub par? OK then.

[PsychedelicSnake]

Using it no matter what happens to it.

 

Dragon Nikana Master Race

[VKhaun]

What stance and combo did you use with the Dragon Nikana?

 

 

Spoiler alert: He's using the Dragon Nikana without a stance and comparing spam hits to a combo on another weapon.

Edited April 17, 2014 by VKhaun

[Archistopheles]

All I see is words.

 

Please provide the appropriate math if you wish to make a claim.

[TheJiggliestPoo]

...85 damage is sub par? OK then.

 

Did you not read a word I wrote? The damage is subpar because Crimson Dervish massively increases Dakra's damage

[TheJiggliestPoo]

All I see is words.

 

Please provide the appropriate math if you wish to make a claim.

Math coming up

[VKhaun]

Spoiler alert: He's using the Dragon Nikana without a stance and comparing spam hits to a combo on another weapon.

[Brahmastra]

Take dragon out of the tile with no stances, then I will believe you.

[BIossome]

Attack speed mods doesn't equal 1-shotting.

[Halser]

I know what you mean.

 

There's another issue I've noticed. While most combos have a sort of 'hyper armor' in them so you don't get knocked down while attacking, Tranquil Cleave has no such thing. With a poor staggering ability, that means you're bound to be played around like a pinball if you try attacking Ancients or Heavies.

[Pandoran_Stallion]

Did you not read a word I wrote? The damage is subpar because Crimson Dervish massively increases Dakra's damage

If you're going for DPS just use the Name Skyla and copter all over the place. Does way more damage than a dakra any day.

[DaftMeat]

Mr rank 0 Nikana on Eris DS could cut Infested down with channelling.

Disagree.

[direcyphre]

Sounds like someone comparing DPS and saying the Vectis isn't as good as X weapon. Sadly it doesn't matter what the stance does if it only takes one or two hits of a Dragon Nikana to topple a heavy. I mean it's nice and all, and cool to look at, but if you need a combo to compete, you're already a step behind.

[Archangelzz]

Did you not read a word I wrote? The damage is subpar because Crimson Dervish massively increases Dakra's damage

But at the cost of attack speed that is what makes it balanced great power for your mobility while tranquil cleave gives you multi hit swings and a bleed proc also the daka prime is a rapier which is supposed to be a very fast weapon.

[Casardis]

Strangely enough, though I wish there was a better way to control momentum, I might actually prefer Nikana's coptering speed as opposed to the stupidly effective coptering most weapons now have. There's only one reason for that though: it's easier to hit aerial enemies with Nikana than, say, Nami Skyla.

 

They just need to integrate coptering better in the game instead of almost looking like a glitch due to how the physics works, made into maneuvers (kinda like Wave Dashing in SSBM).

[Archangelzz]

You comparing the dragon nikanas attack damage vs daka prime crimson dervish is like comparing any other non stanced weapon to the greatsword with its op damage stance on it. I can go all the way up to pluto and kill pretty much anything just fine so if I can do it chances are you can do it and I am using the normal nikana so.

[Authion]

i see another
"i love this weapon, it's not OP, buff it.. NOW!!"

but yeah it shouldn't be like that for rank 8 weapon
maybe DE just need to lower the weapon rank

Oh..i just remember the poor old Supra..
and have you tried Amphis?? it has ridiculous copter speed imho, shouldn't it be heavy staff by the looks?

[RealmDestroyer]

And I thought the Dragon Nikana was one of the 'ultimate' weapons introduced.

 

Yet apparently people say it sucks.

 

I don't think it sucks, I think it's amazing.

Edited April 17, 2014 by RealmDestroyer

[TheJiggliestPoo]

Spoiler alert: He's using the Dragon Nikana without a stance and comparing spam hits to a combo on another weapon.

 

Spoiler Alert i'm not a little *@##$ like that, screenshots will be added, video proof coming up with combos

[Archistopheles]

Everyone please keep your pants on until someone actually posts numbers.

 

Thank you.

[VKhaun]

Everyone please keep your pants on until someone actually posts numbers.

 

Thank you.

 

No. Not every weapon is going to be inherently best at spamming channel attacks. Some of them have to be better at executions, or have faster indivdiual strikes so they can stop attacking and start blocking faster, or hit repeatedly for lower DPS so they can proc more, or have combos that easily execute like a forward modifier in a combo that's good for chasing, etc etc.

 

I do not want to see DPSFrame.com take over the damn forums for another six months like after Damage 2.0, where everyone whines that everything is useless except the top weapon or three that someone puts up a mathematical proof for as the BEST DPS IN THE GAME as if all the mobs just walk over and say "based Tenno please chop my head off" and there's no game to play.

Edited April 17, 2014 by VKhaun

[Nachino]

No. Not every weapon is going to be inherently best at spamming channel attacks. Some of them have to be better at executions, or have faster indivdiual strikes so they can stop attacking and start blocking faster, or hit repeatedly for lower DPS so they can proc more, or have combos that easily execute like a forward modifier in a combo that's good for chasing, etc etc.

 

I do not want to see DPSFrame.com take over the damn forums for another six months like after Damage 2.0, where everyone whines that everything is useless except the top weapon or three that someone puts up a mathematical proof for as the BEST DPS IN THE GAME as if all the mobs just walk over and say "based Tenno please chop my head off" and there's no game to play.

Thank you

[TheJiggliestPoo]

No. Not every weapon is going to be inherently best at spamming channel attacks. Some of them have to be better at executions, or have faster indivdiual strikes so they can stop attacking and start blocking faster, or hit repeatedly for lower DPS so they can proc more, or have combos that easily execute like a forward modifier in a combo that's good for chasing, etc etc.

 

I do not want to see DPSFrame.com take over the damn forums for another six months like after Damage 2.0, where everyone whines that everything is useless except the top weapon or three that someone puts up a mathematical proof for as the BEST DPS IN THE GAME as if all the mobs just walk over and say "based Tenno please chop my head off" and there's no game to play.

 

Which would be cool and all except the dragon nikana is worse at EVERYTHING compared to Dakra + Crimson Dervish. Got alot more information on my other thread. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/217252-buff-dragon-nikana-now-with-a-little-math-and-videos/ I like trade offs I dont like inferior weaponry especially if it's a mastery 8+ weapon

[Archistopheles]

No. Not every weapon is going to be inherently best at spamming channel attacks. Some of them have to be better at executions, or have faster indivdiual strikes so they can stop attacking and start blocking faster, or hit repeatedly for lower DPS so they can proc more, or have combos that easily execute like a forward modifier in a combo that's good for chasing, etc etc.

 

I do not want to see DPSFrame.com take over the damn forums for another six months like after Damage 2.0, where everyone whines that everything is useless except the top weapon or three that someone puts up a mathematical proof for as the BEST DPS IN THE GAME as if all the mobs just walk over and say "based Tenno please chop my head off" and there's no game to play.

 

I don't care about DPS. I just want to see facts, and not emotion-filled knee-jerking. 

 

Poo's second thread is well made and offers an insight that goes against DPSframe.com's calculations. He's helping your cause.