Speary Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Everyone wants to play Dark Sector missions. No one wants to play Tenno rail conflict missions. So why in God's name would an alliance challenge an existing 0% tax Solar Rail with their own 0% tax Rail? All that does is prevent thousands of players from playing the mission for a ridiculous amount of time. Question to the warlords who make that decision to challenge a 0% tax rail with their own: Why? Edited April 19, 2014 by Speary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Lord_Gremlin Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Look, I'm on PS4, but I tell you this - rank mastery 12-15 players have nothing to do other than go and help noobs in their clan or random chat. I don't want any xp or resource farming missions, I want my clan (or possibly future alliance) name on a node. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alazais Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Why? Because they can. Welcome to the internet. If it will annoy a single person, it's enough for a troll to attack a solar rail. It will always happen, every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megakruemel Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 If you think about it everyone is a little bit of a donkey. Some are more than others but the people who deploy solarrails just to be on the starmap for a short time are nearly 100% donkey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixty5 Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Take over the node and stick your own taxed rail there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 - To put your Clan/Alliance name on the map. - For the sake of setting a goal for the Clan/Alliance. - To spite Carebear rails. - Blood for the blood god. Four reasons right there. I'm not even really thinking all that hard about it either. Just because a Clan or Alliance sets it's tax to 0 that is supposed to make them an unattractive target? I'm afraid not. You must misunderstand the system. When you set your taxes to 0 you broadcast to the entire community that you are making absolutely nothing for funds for that rail. You tell every potential invader that you're going to have that much harder a time repairing the damage they do. You tell them it'll be that much easier to predict the kind of measely battlepay your clan can offer to attempt to lure pubs in to protect it. If your Clan or Alliance is setting it's rails to 0 tax it better expect to prove it has the stones to protect itself without help from the taxes system. If you don't than someone else deserves a shot at your spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Nuisance Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 1. Log in 2. Look for solar rails that aren't actually in conflict 3. Not find any 4. Log out Because all initial build times converged the subsequent attacks have happened in a strict linear progression (in the same window) where it's all or nothing. All (most) rails are open and then the next attack wave comes in - if this was fixed so max 60% of rails could be under siege at any one time that would be an improvement The current mechanic for this is simply frustrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blowfist Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Eclipse alliance as an example claim to offer 0% to win and then after they win they set a tax above 0%. That's understandable to challenge that alliance for the solar rail. When it comes to 0% vs 0% and both alliances plan to keep to 0% then it makes no sense. As a general rule if an alliance promises 0% and then breaks that promise. From then on I'll always help any alliance against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggh Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Because taxed rails can put up better battle pays and thus beat challengers faster. 0% rails are evil because they almost always are in conflict for the full 48 hours if they're challenged by another 0% rail or a cheapskate alliance. The constant challenges will eventually encourage people to start taxing. Edited April 19, 2014 by Aggh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValhaHazred Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 My alliance has tons of Solar Rails in waiting for everyone to run out of money fighting for 0 tax areas. We'll be able to take them unopposed, only to lose them to every other alliance doing the same thing! Seriously, that land grab with 0 tax rails was very poor forethought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)NicoTheSneakyGuy Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) I'll fight for whoever's paying more, Taxes are not my concern. Edited April 19, 2014 by (PS4)NicoTheSneakyGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoninJed Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Let's face it....the dark sectors thing is kind of a flop so far. I thought U13 would bring people (who got bored) back to warframe but I'm not so sure it did. I'm sure DE can and will make improvements to the dark sectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketBlackMan Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 - To put your Clan/Alliance name on the map. - For the sake of setting a goal for the Clan/Alliance. - To spite Carebear rails. - Blood for the blood god. Four reasons right there. I'm not even really thinking all that hard about it either. Just because a Clan or Alliance sets it's tax to 0 that is supposed to make them an unattractive target? I'm afraid not. You must misunderstand the system. When you set your taxes to 0 you broadcast to the entire community that you are making absolutely nothing for funds for that rail. You tell every potential invader that you're going to have that much harder a time repairing the damage they do. You tell them it'll be that much easier to predict the kind of measely battlepay your clan can offer to attempt to lure pubs in to protect it. If your Clan or Alliance is setting it's rails to 0 tax it better expect to prove it has the stones to protect itself without help from the taxes system. If you don't than someone else deserves a shot at your spot. Your reasons 3 & 4 please me to no end, well done. On your discourse regarding 0% rails, I agree one hundred percent. You'll get those that see that and go "Hey, they can't keep their rail up if we keep attacking" unless their goal is simply to whittle your resources/cash down (because people like to be oppositional). The problem I have been seeing is the benefit of having a rail up is only to have your 'name' on the star charts and to set taxes for credits/resources. If there was a passive additional bonus (i.e. ~2% increased affinity for alliance members across all missions, etc.) for each solar rail, there may be a reason for why tax free would be the way to go (until another alliance opted to invade and try to take over). Bah, I don't know- I'm just a solo tenno that wants to hang tight with my Grineer homeslices (except for the Scorpions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speary Posted April 19, 2014 Author Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) - To put your Clan/Alliance name on the map. - For the sake of setting a goal for the Clan/Alliance. - To spite Carebear rails. - Blood for the blood god. Four reasons right there. I'm not even really thinking all that hard about it either. Just because a Clan or Alliance sets it's tax to 0 that is supposed to make them an unattractive target? I'm afraid not. You must misunderstand the system. When you set your taxes to 0 you broadcast to the entire community that you are making absolutely nothing for funds for that rail. You tell every potential invader that you're going to have that much harder a time repairing the damage they do. You tell them it'll be that much easier to predict the kind of measely battlepay your clan can offer to attempt to lure pubs in to protect it. If your Clan or Alliance is setting it's rails to 0 tax it better expect to prove it has the stones to protect itself without help from the taxes system. If you don't than someone else deserves a shot at your spot. As a matter of fact, I understand how this works quite well. And all I see is 0% challenging 0% with negligible battle rewards, keeping us out of the game. I don't understand why you think that's a good thing. To answer your awkwardly-worded rhetorical question, no, 0% tax does not make a rail an unattractive target. This is pretty clearly seen with the incessant 0% tax challengers who offer nothing but a different name. I'm not starting a flame war. I'm just asking if we think keeping thousands of players out of a desired game mode is worth reasons as artificial as 15 minutes of fame or trolling. Edited April 19, 2014 by Speary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Nuisance Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 I've played a couple of these now - at the moment someone's offering 10,000 credits to defend their rail (can't remember where) and there's other warframes shooting back... I never noticed this before. Are these actually players from the opposing side or bots? Reason for the question is that they seem to die spectacularly quickly... so if someone can clarify I'd appreciate it. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Je_Suis_Bruxelles_ Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 As it is right now, Dark Sectors are a monumental failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blatantfool Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 As a matter of fact, I understand how this works quite well. And all I see is 0% challenging 0% with negligible battle rewards, keeping us out of the game. I don't understand why you think that's a good thing. To answer your awkwardly-worded rhetorical question, no, 0% tax does not make a rail an unattractive target. This is pretty clearly seen with the incessant 0% tax challengers who offer nothing but a different name. I'm not starting a flame war. I'm just asking if we think keeping thousands of players out of a desired game mode is worth reasons as artificial as 15 minutes of fame or trolling. I think you're getting more hostility from my post then I meant you too. When I said my piece about clans and alliances I was actually thinking in a very general sense. It wasn't directed solely at you as if you'd said something wrong. And it is easy for the attackers to get away with just saying "LOL 0% IF WE WIN!" because that's what the onlookers are interested in seeing. They'd put themselves at a potential disadvantage if they broad casted the intent to replace a taxless rail with a taxed one. Hell, If I were in the position of running the show for those messages/taxes I'd probably lie for the sake of making sure that for the duration of the contest my clan looks equal in all ways to the rail we want to replace. Not because I think this will make you support the imaginary rail I was sponsoring - but because I know that when people who're in the position of being outside looking inwards see my 0% rail vs their 0% rail and both clans have the same battlepay the likliness of anyone interfering is low. After all, why would pubbie players support either side? Negligible battle pay teamed with both clans essentially pledging to charge (or not charge) the same rate means that no matter who wins or loses you (Read:The player outside the conflict) benefit the same from a Farming angle AND you don't benefit at all for helping either side. This sort of situation would be advantageous for me as the aggressor. I wouldn't be attacking if my clan didn't want that rail. I know my guys would be up for putting their name in the stars. We have reason to win. And I'd have essentially denied outsiders a reason to care. So now it'd be my clan versus their, more or less. With both sides being identical pubbies are pretty likely to support both sides of the conflict at just about the same rate. The idea that the difference in pub support would be a game changer is less likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HideorEscape Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Solar Rails are useless! Its just a time, credit and resource waster! Mindless grinding for no reason. My clan does have a solar rail but I don't think I will ever deploy it, for what really? It doesn't make any sense. Good job community! Keep deploying your solar rails until you all lose. Also Tenno vs Tenno makes 0 sense, why would the faction start killing each other? What's the lore with solar rails? I would rather destroy a corpus solar rail or a grineer solar rail, not a Tenno/Orokin made Solar rail. Hint: Shattered Corpus Solar Rail on Pluto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Nuisance Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Are these actually players from the opposing side or bots? Anyone, Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuestenjung Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Why? Because they can. Welcome to the internet. If it will annoy a single person, it's enough for a troll to attack a solar rail. It will always happen, every time. Almost every company in RL is taking it the same way, this has nothing to do with the internet in special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythblaze Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 - To put your Clan/Alliance name on the map. - For the sake of setting a goal for the Clan/Alliance. - To spite Carebear rails. - Blood for the blood god. Four reasons right there. I'm not even really thinking all that hard about it either. Just because a Clan or Alliance sets it's tax to 0 that is supposed to make them an unattractive target? I'm afraid not. You must misunderstand the system. When you set your taxes to 0 you broadcast to the entire community that you are making absolutely nothing for funds for that rail. You tell every potential invader that you're going to have that much harder a time repairing the damage they do. You tell them it'll be that much easier to predict the kind of measely battlepay your clan can offer to attempt to lure pubs in to protect it. If your Clan or Alliance is setting it's rails to 0 tax it better expect to prove it has the stones to protect itself without help from the taxes system. If you don't than someone else deserves a shot at your spot. That logic is rejected. Solar rails is the most half baked release in the history of Warframe. SR needs pulled and overhauled already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_Nuisance Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 That logic is rejected. I agree with Mythblaze If 2 of the reasons are essentially 'cause people are $&*^s' and the other 2 don't really add anything to the game or lore it's not been well thought out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 (edited) Solar Rails get added so clans can clash and cause conflicts, giving them something to aim for. People complain about clans clashing and causing conflicts. What did you people expect? Edited April 19, 2014 by Vargras Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsychedelicSnake Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 Solar Rails get added so clans can clash and cause conflicts, giving them something to aim for.. People complain about clans clashing and causing conflicts. What did you people expect? Remember when Clan Wars were a thing everyone wanted? Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vargras Posted April 19, 2014 Share Posted April 19, 2014 That logic is rejected. Solar rails is the most half baked release in the history of Warframe. SR needs pulled and overhauled already. I've lost count of how many times I've heard those lines said throughout Warframe's history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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