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A Request To The Moderators; Intelligence Control.


DalaiLlama
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Advance apologies, I can be arrogant when surrounded by what I perceive as idiocy, and I'm been described by family and peers as quite modest.  I hardly expect this idea to continue for long, but for a game in Beta so desperately needing constructive feedback and player retention (as a positive community has shown to aid), I believe some attention may prove beneficial, however half-baked my ideas inherently are.

 

Despite low post count, I've been around since the days of closed beta, before the Boltor even received its skeleton model; and I must say that around that time, this game was rife with optimism.  The forums was a breathing, writhing mass, with Warframe and weapon concepts abound, fan fictions flooding parts of the forums, the feedback strictly constructive, and a more friendly atmosphere to be found overall.  I cannot remember a flaming war ever to be had, nor were there many whiny threads rife with entitlement/blatant flaming nor grammar so juvenile that it made readers cringe.

 

Nowadays, such is no longer true; slightly bored with the game, I left some time before Update 8, the big Clan Update, hit.  Drawn by a peer, I returned some time mid-Update 12, and after seeing parts of the community, am at a loss as to what could have caused such degradation in the sorts of interactions that happened back in Closed Beta and the sorts of things I see now.  While parts of the community are still very optimistic and reminiscent of the old days, it seems other parts of the forums are rife with blatant entitlement/insulting or simple nonconstructive childishness; with a greater population, it seems Warframe has also attracted the intelligently dull.

 

My request to the Moderators is to play a greater part in deleting threads that offer nothing to the game/community, are filled with childish entitlement, simply lash out at people with differing opinions, and the like as well as to implement a temporary banning policy for people who repeatedly and habitually post with lower-than average intelligence and contribute nothing/lack etiquette along with a extra extension period for those who flame about being banned afterwards (as it seems the lesson has not been learnt), during which time the player may play in-game but not post in the forums.  Additional policies like a timed-reset strike system may also be implemented to add leeway.  While such a program may already exist to an extent, my intent is then to call for a further tightening of rules.

 

Evidence for such behavior can be found in the various PS4 versus PC threads that have been cropping up as of late (the first thread I was about to take evidence from was already closed, much respect to the moderators for that; as a result, I am suddenly very short on examples).

 

Ex.

"Why is it so unfair between PC and ps4 we didn't receive the proto skin nor did we get the new weapon as it always tends too be the case the devs only care about the October and founders we buy just as much platinum as they do so why are we overlooked just wondering "

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/205246-why-is-it-so-unfair/ OP

 

"No.  In fact, get out. Full douchebaggery intended."

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/218621-no-more-warframe-more-powers-and-habilities/ #3

 

" "de pls rede this bcuz I abvissly kno hao to maek a gud gaem" "

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/218597-des-please-read-this/ #13

 

 

While I take sides with the PC community, I am not advocating the stomping out of opinion; in fact, I encourage that only the blatant offenders receive the axe of banning, rather than every single person who breaks any rule: ex. Posting in the wrong Section, Double posting, etc.  Instead, I advocate positive and constructive conversation, or at least conversation that doesn't simply lash at people.  While borderline in my opinion, even something as benign as this is acceptable simply because it isn't ad hominem:

"my freind said that leik veterans were mad about it, want to here if people actually were"

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/218709-how-mad-were-people-about-pvp/ OP

 

However much of the community such a rule is able to trim is hopefully small (and given time, we may yet see them return to us with a much more friendly mien), any sort of similar action will help make criticism more constructive and the community a slightly better place, which is exactly what DE needs.  As I said, as a game still in beta, the last thing DE needs is to have constructive threads hidden in any way by entitlement threads or to have critical but controversial threads derailed by those claiming "u obioussly dnt know anything about gaems".  A positive community can also help with player retention, given the abnormally high difficulty greeting new players; a mature and supportive community has proven to get new players up on their feet more effectively than simple rant forums like those found on some Nexon games either by helping directly, settling him/her into a healthy clan, or simply creating a friendly atmosphere.

I and presumably many players have quit games like League of Legends and Tera simply because of the absolutely toxic general atmosphere to be found in their community; whereas Warframe's bad parts are still in "pockets," the pockets in those games are the supportive ones, and while still a far cry from the community of today, it would pain to see Warframe turn into a shark tank anywhere other than in a handful of clans.

 

What the moderators did in deleting hate threads after the 2-3 hour delaying of Update 13 was a good thing; while some complain that all that were left were "white knight" threads, I think most can agree that such rage posts did nothing to contribute to the community nor to the game.  However, more can be done, and perhaps while morbid, that means weeding out the undesirables, wherever they may pop up.

 

TLDR: The forums are a place for educated discussion; those who are incapable of this should not be a part of it until they are.

 

I welcome criticism, and acknowledge that this is rather radical of an idea.  Still, given feelings of the perpetuity and invulnerability shared by people on the internet, it seems the only way to better a community is to trim the undesirable pieces.

Edited by DalaiLlama
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Well not long ago I attempted a friendly discussion after the delay of U13 got a tad bit heated on the forums. Turned out to be a worthy discussion, allowed the people involve to vent and clear their mind a bit.

 

The problem with forums is a lot of the time things can get misinterpreted and you don't get that same sense of honesty when you can't hear that persons voice. That's a problem with the internet in general too. Sometimes it's hard to tell if somebody is generally serious or not.

(Sorry if it sounds a little off, it's nearly 5am and I'm just about to hit the sack.)

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Just report and move on.

 

Threads like this are counter-productive, they're a magnet for the very behavior you claim to dislike and they don't add anything constructive or on-topic, no matter how well-structured it may be. Also, to me, it feels like a name-and-shame, which is against the forum rules.

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As someone who has spent more than their fair share of time on here, I can agree with what you are saying. However things like that are tricky, and can lean to a slippery slope in terms of censorship.

 

As of now we have a lot of freedom here, and for the most part that is fine and much good comes out of it. However a few bad eggs spoil it, making this an unpleasant place to be.

 

I'll give you a +1 OP and I'll see where this thread goes.

 

 

Also, the report button may be just the thing you are looking for, it brings the post in question to the attention of the mods.

Edited by Sixty5
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I have no words that suffice.

 

Though, I'm probably border-lining on being one of those unproductive people.

The problem with forums is a lot of the time things can get misinterpreted and you don't get that same sense of honesty when you can't hear that persons voice. That's a problem with the internet in general too. Sometimes it's hard to tell if somebody is generally serious or not.

It's still annoying when people get mad at you even though they haven't fully explained something they expect you to figure out on your own through an extremely obscure inference.

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While it would certainly help keep the forums tidy, removing threads that don't meet certain standards sets a dangerous precedent.

 

Additionally, hiding all the hate threads is also tough. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between constructive negative feedback and developer bashing (the latter of which is generally filled with excessive profanity and/or insulting/disrespectful attitude). And when we do hide/lock down threads that are dev-bashing in nature, it often only fans the flames and angers the poster more and/or give ammo to naysayers who love to cry "Look they're censoring our opinions!"

 

Still, have an upvote.

 

My request to the Moderators is to play a greater part in deleting threads that offer nothing to the game/community, are filled with childish entitlement, simply lash out at people with differing opinions, and the like as well as to implement a temporary banning policy for people who repeatedly and habitually post with lower-than average intelligence and contribute nothing/lack etiquette along with a extra extension period for those who flame about being banned afterwards (as it seems the lesson has not been learnt), during which time the player may play in-game but not post in the forums.  Additional policies like a timed-reset strike system may also be implemented to add leeway.  While such a program may already exist to an extent, my intent is then to call for a further tightening of rules.

 

I am not advocating the stomping out of opinion; in fact, I encourage that only the blatant offenders receive the axe of banning, rather than every single person who breaks any rule: ex. Posting in the wrong Section, Double posting, etc.

In regards to your suggestions on warning points... It -sort of- exists in a way, people who are incensed who receive a warning point for a rule violation but show no immediate signs of stopping may be put on a very brief several hour 'cool down' where they can't post. That aside, the 3-4-5 rule and moderation queue does a fairly good job when it comes to repeat offenders.

 

Also when people are "banned" from the forums (5 warning points) they can still play the game but they cannot participate on the forums.

 

We once had a timed-reset system for warning points, but it was swapped out for permanent warning points to serve as a reminder of what not to do in the future.

 

Also regarding posting in the wrong section, double posting, etc, we don't really give warnings for such small infractions. 

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Just report and move on.

 

Threads like this are counter-productive, they're a magnet for the very behavior you claim to dislike and they don't add anything constructive or on-topic, no matter how well-structured it may be. Also, to me, it feels like a name-and-shame, which is against the forum rules.

This topic paints a rather clear target on anyone willing to troll it.  A sincere request for civility, does not deserve trolling like this post is guaranteed to receive.  If it's left alone long enough, a few of the lobber crawlers will stick their necks out only to have them chopped off by the report button's whirling Orthos.  

 

I don't think they are counter productive, and my justification is twofold.   First is that anyone who supports the concept of an open minded forum; a place for discussion for the purposes of improvement and to share in a passion will take the underlying message of this topic to heart, even if they aren't quite on board with any radical changes of plan.  It's refreshing to know you aren't alone in wading through the sea of flotsam and discarded para-carrier parts.  Secondly, those who are too lazy to read, or only motivated enough to troll will be nice enough to flag themselves for censoring, which, while annoying in the short term, will mean a better experience in the long run.

 

A long time ago, in some forums archived far far away, I advocated for a minimum character limit as a toggleable option for topic creators so as to discourage one word answers.  I will always advocate for someone having to defend why they disagree with you, rather than a simple "no".  It got shot down, but I will still hold out hope that there will be something done for those of us that actually care where this ends up.

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Well mister OP. That would require an Ungodly amount of Moderators to even keep that under control. We have like 10 or so unpaid moderators, and less than 10 paid ones... Unless all DE employees have Moderation ability. With what we have they barely keep it under control. There is always that small period of time they are not on, and I am there... just staring absently, and face palming going... WHERE THE HELL ARE THE MODERATORS!!! Then when they do get on, and do something I have this moment where I try to imagine the look on their face when they do see these topics...

 

Remember OP the moderators that have to deal with these topics they lose IQ points every time they do, and with how large the internet is, and how many people come on these forums. Let what ever celestial being help them... Because they will need it. For the sake of what sanity they can grasp tightly to as they read through topics that must be locked, or hidden away. Hell truly breaks loose when they have to combine hundreds of topics into a mega thread though. Then its simply a game of wackamole, but also reading it because then someone out there will complain. THAT WASNT SUPPOSED TO GO IN THE MEGATHREAD...

                                  

Seriously... even that up there gets a topic of its own when people get upset instead of messaging the moderators, or reporting it. Like good grief man. Your self entitlement over where your topic goes doesn't need a mini topic of its own.

Edited by Arlayn
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While it would certainly help keep the forums tidy, removing threads that don't meet certain standards sets a dangerous precedent.

 

Additionally, hiding all the hate threads is also tough. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between constructive negative feedback and developer bashing (the latter of which is generally filled with excessive profanity and/or insulting/disrespectful attitude). And when we do hide/lock down threads that are dev-bashing in nature, it often only fans the flames and angers the poster more and/or give ammo to naysayers who love to cry "Look they're censoring our opinions!"

 

Still, have an upvote.

 

I've just remembered the previous controversial interactions moderators have had with large clans in the past, just slipped my mind.  I agree and wonder sometimes how efforts to reduce negativity may in turn breed negativity.  The idea itself is rather radical, my thanks for paying it heed.

 

I suppose I'm simply in support of more aggressive moderation, whether or not that will be good for the community is debatable, but I see little other methods in the face of internet anonymity/invulnerability.

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I would actually like to give the OP of a topic the ability to self lock their topic if it gets out of hand or if the question that has been asked has been answered.

 

This would help prevent clutter and could work towards less trolling etc.

 

Just something that sprang to mind

 

 

edit, Come to think of it, a kickbot for the forums might be nice. I'm a big fan of [DE]Kickbot's work in-game

Edited by Sixty5
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I would actually like to give the OP of a topic the ability to self lock their topic if it gets out of hand or if the question that has been asked has been answered.

 

This would help prevent clutter and could work towards less trolling etc.

 

Just something that sprang to mind

 

 

edit, Come to think of it, a kickbot for the forums might be nice. I'm a big fan of [DE]Kickbot's work in-game

were on page 2, and not a single troll yet... just tons of warnings of trolls coming... interesting...

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were on page 2, and not a single troll yet... just tons of warnings of trolls coming... interesting...

The trolls are here, they are just behaving themselves. Besides, trolls typically flock to contentious posts or ones where the OP is not of sound mind. This post and its OP are both reasonable, hence the intelligent discussion.

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The trolls are here, they are just behaving themselves. Besides, trolls typically flock to contentious posts or ones where the OP is not of sound mind. This post and its OP are both reasonable, hence the intelligent discussion.

Many of the people that support his goals also happened to have found it in relatively short order :D , so it has that going for it too.

 

And yes, 3 troll posts and one questionable one on the front page alone. 

 

Since Letter13 has advertised that they are indeed reading this (and this is a topic about the use of the forums), I have a question for the moderators: what qualifies a post for being a good target of the report button?  Excessive profanity and flaming are fairly self evident, but what about the clear waste of space posts that got attached to this topic early on?  I'd like the forums to be a place for civil discussion, but I don't want to waste your time on trivial things.  I know there's a lot of BS you deal with that I don't see, for which I'm grateful, but at the same time, no one has explicitly stated "this is the kind of thing we do/do not want you consuming our limited time with".

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While it would certainly help keep the forums tidy, removing threads that don't meet certain standards sets a dangerous precedent.

 

Additionally, hiding all the hate threads is also tough. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish between constructive negative feedback and developer bashing (the latter of which is generally filled with excessive profanity and/or insulting/disrespectful attitude). And when we do hide/lock down threads that are dev-bashing in nature, it often only fans the flames and angers the poster more and/or give ammo to naysayers who love to cry "Look they're censoring our opinions!"

 

Still, have an upvote.

This sums up what I was going to say if I wasn't so tired right now.

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Many of the people that support his goals also happened to have found it in relatively short order :D , so it has that going for it too.

 

And yes, 3 troll posts and one questionable one on the front page alone. 

 

Since Letter13 has advertised that they are indeed reading this (and this is a topic about the use of the forums), I have a question for the moderators: what qualifies a post for being a good target of the report button?  Excessive profanity and flaming are fairly self evident, but what about the clear waste of space posts that got attached to this topic early on?  I'd like the forums to be a place for civil discussion, but I don't want to waste your time on trivial things.  I know there's a lot of BS you deal with that I don't see, for which I'm grateful, but at the same time, no one has explicitly stated "this is the kind of thing we do/do not want you consuming our limited time with".

Last time I used the report button I found you can report people for derailing a topic.

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Last time I used the report button I found you can report people for derailing a topic.

Derailing a topic, being an &#!, posting something completely irrelevant, etc.

 

I'm actually surprised I don't get reported more often. I like to think it's because I at least try to post something constructive now and again. But karma seems to like making what constructive threads I do make and derailing them as well.

 

Anyway, back on topic: The report button is your friend. It is your only friend. It is love, it is life. If you feel like something is going wrong, report the comment. If you feel the entire thread is going wrong, report the thread and ask for a cleanup.

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