Ash Is Useless

[Grulos]

Loki should not be touched at all, he is fine as he is now and serves his role perfectly.

 

Ash on the other hand, needs to be able to dish out some serious damage, unlike now. Your suggestions are very good!

[Sasquatchias]

Loki should not be touched at all, he is fine as he is now and serves his role perfectly.

 

Ash on the other hand, needs to be able to dish out some serious damage, unlike now. Your suggestions are very good!

Personally I'd like to see Switch Teleport tweaked a bit, give a little more incentive to use it.

 

What I'd like to see is a small radial stun that hits enemies around you when you switch places with an enemy.

[Triburos]

Personally I'd like to see Switch Teleport tweaked a bit, give a little more incentive to use it.

 

What I'd like to see is a small radial stun that hits enemies around you when you switch places with an enemy.

I like it as is, if only because Loki is capable of breaking maps with it.

 

But yeah- I personally would like it if Switch Teleport marked Loki's target with an effect similar to Radiation's proc effect, where mobs will shoot the affected mob.

 

The logic behind it is that in a lore / cinematic scenario, if a Loki were to Switch Teleport positions with a soldier mid fight, his allies would obviously gun him down, believing that they were shooting Loki.

 

It doesn't have to be a big buff- just have the duration of the debuff last for a single second or for however long the mob is in his confusion animation. You know- to give it some "oomph".

[semangka]

ash is not a favored online frame, only in soloing does he shine, but it takes a really specific skill set to truly enjoy ashes abilities, because most see them as an nothing when in comparison to loki

 

first ability: we could fix this by using the smoke on his arm, it could throw like 3 or 4 of them and on impact they release some smoke and blind the area of impact

 

 

second ability: fix it by my all enemies affect by stun of the bomb dropping take more damage, or a amor de-buff, and all friendlies inside the area of affect go invis

 

3: make his teleport when used go to the target, and drop smoke where he was and where he went and the smoke applies a short stun and accuracy de-buff

 

4: i honestly have no idea looks great, but very bad on online play, but pretty cooh for soloers

[Aercascade]

Tell that to me whilst I'm Teleporting reviving your sorry arse.

Ash has a use. Going invisible then reviving dead pubs.

 

 You think I bought all the freakin' colour palettes to boost my performance? Hell no. Looking good is just another part of the game.

[Triburos]

Tell that to me whilst I'm Teleporting reviving your sorry arse.

Ash has a use. Going invisible then reviving dead pubs.

 

 You think I bought all the freakin' colour palettes to boost my performance? Hell no. Looking good is just another part of the game.

Yeah but Loki does that too, and his support is better overall.

 

If you were to somehow measure Loki's utility and Ash's offense at the same time, Loki would rest around the "Above Average" catagory in terms of support whilst Ash's playstyle would be "Below Average."

 

Loki does what he does pretty well. Ash has difficuilties doing assault very well at the moment. And his team uses are practically non-existant so...Eugh.

[Chaosdreamer]

what OP saying is probably True what Ash have more than loki is extra shield / hp oh and 3 days long ult unless someone in your team kill your target...

[Lord_of_Lords]

Ashe is by far my favorite frame.

 

Wield your melee and press 4.  Repeat.

 

The hit multipliers stack and he is no longer useless.  I got up to X5 once and was 1 hitting lvl 130s.

 

If you don't like him, you're probably doing something wrong.

 

EDIT:  Oh and you can hit up to 15 enemies at the same time (and you will if you put on a stretch).

[SlapClown]

 

 

Ashe is by far my favorite frame.

 

Wield your melee and press 4.  Repeat.

 

The hit multipliers stack and he is no longer useless.  I got up to X5 once and was 1 hitting lvl 130s.

 

If you don't like him, you're probably doing something wrong.

 

EDIT:  Oh and you can hit up to 15 enemies at the same time (and you will if you put on a stretch).

I get to close to use Stretch \o/

Edited April 23, 2014 by SlapClown

[Draco208]

All of Ash moves should be tweaked and buffed. He's Ok stat wise but his move set needs some tweaking. 

[Malindros]

Ash is useless. Loki overshadows him in every way. Ever since January of 2013, topics have popped up pointing out the blatant gap of effectiveness between Ash and Loki, and it is still like this in April of 2014.

 

~Shuriken - Abysmal damage, all slash, with sometimes unreliable targeting and absolutely ZERO utility. But it can be thrown while reloading, oh gee thanks.

~Decoy - Distracts the enemy, lets you revive teammates, and doubles as a way to choose wherever you want to switch teleport, but falls off at higher levels.

 

~Smokescreen - Poor excuse of a stun, can't cast in the air or while moving, drastically shorter duration than Invisibility. But it costs 15 less energy, oh gee thanks.

~Invisibility - Can cast while in the air (and while moving if you are sliding in midair) and has a drastically longer duration than Smokescreen.

 

~Teleport - Unnecessary fancy flip that hinders the ability and only serves as eye-candy, decent range, stuns the one enemy you target but is not advantageous because the useless fancy flip counteracts the stun, and has severely limited targeting to only enemies, teammates, and defense pods. What about a Life Support Capsu- no ok.

~Switch Teleport - Combined with Decoy gives it essentially free-aim capabilities, relocates and stuns an enemy of choice, no matter the level, and can switch teammates out of (or into) a sticky situation.

 

~Bladestorm -  Fancy stabby animations that hinders the ability and only serves as eye-candy (sound familiar?), limited to 14 or so targets, does flat 2,000 armor-ignore damage, gives user Invincibility during duration, but falls flat on its face when enemies scale beyond level 35 unless you stack Intensify and Blind Rage (say good-bye to your efficiency) but even that will fall off soon after.

~Radial Disarm - Removes all ranged capabilities of all enemies in range regardless of level and forces them into melee, perfectly synergizing with Invisibility to mow them down with melee, and comes close to trivializing two entire factions while being useless to the third.

 

See any problems?

 

Why can't Ash throw 3 Shurikens that stuns enemies and "marks them for death", increasing crit damage received from all sources while giving off a visual representation both fitting the assassin play style and letting the team know who to target first?

Why can't all enemies affected by Smokescreen have 50% reduced accuracy for the duration of the ability (and increase the energy cost to 50 because of this)?

Why can't Teleport be free-aim and leave all enemies that were targeting you at the time be confused like Switch Teleport does, letting you dish out melee attacks on your target before his buddies realize where you are instead of aim-botting you 100% of the time?

Why can't Bladestorm receive bonus damage from the melee combo counter even though it adds to it, and be affected by Natural Talent, so people who still want the long period of invincibility can have it while those who want faster attacks can have it?

 

With the release of the Dragon Nikana, I have tried and tried to treat Ash like a true space ninja, but...I just can't. His abilities are rendered obsolete by the God of Mischief because Ash's fall off in higher level gameplay while Loki's abilities remain airtight no matter the difficulty curve.

 

DE, give us few remaining Ash players a reason to choose Ash over Nova, Rhino, or Trinity.

 

DE, give us a real space ninja in a game about space ninjas. Please.

 

Edit: I do not want Ash to be like Loki, nor do I play Ash like Loki. I just want Ash to be a ninja frame instead of a "that other guy with invisibility" frame. Loki is a great frame, because he has UTILITY. UTILITY's effectiveness is endless. Can Ash have some UTILITY, so he too can be effective at any level?

what part about style do you not get?

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Now that melee is viable, Ash himself is pretty amazing. Switch teleport is a much greater hassle to use than Ash's teleport as far as getting into melee goes, and unlike Loki, Ash can actually nail fliers without pulling out his gun.

[j0shh4nxd]

Edit, as for comparisons with Loki, Loki's skillset specializes in manipulation, which is as a whole more effective, however most people are scrubs and run loki as a slave to the 2 key, and therefore are not using his full potential. Comparing him to ash in this respect is like saying Banshee is worse than Excalibur because Radial Javelin hits harder than Soundquake.

 

Finally someone who understands... Being invisible forever doesn't mean you're good -_-

 

Imo just learn to use him...he's fine...not amazing but he's fine

I use Ash for everything (besides defense) 

The way you help the team with Ash...do as much damage as possible (you will get outshined by Nova...but who cares?) and revive....teammante is across the map? teleport and revive then get a lot of thank yous

[TunaMayo]

Some interesting things I have heard about buffing Ash but not changing him drastically :

 

1. Let Shuriken add to the melee combo like bladestorm

 

2. Let smokescreen be a team buff, so for the duration of the smokescreen, Ash leaves behind a smoke cloud. Any allies that run through the smoke cloud go invisible for the rest of the duration of the power.

 

3. Let Teleport have short range free-aim ontop of the long range to-target teleport.

 

4. Let Bladestorm "re-target" during the skill. So if an ally kills a marked target, Bladestorm will keep attacking enemies who enter the radius until Ash's quota is filled.

  

Finally someone who understands... Being invisible forever doesn't mean you're good -_-

 

Imo just learn to use him...he's fine...not amazing but he's fine

I use Ash for everything (besides defense) 

The way you help the team with Ash...do as much damage as possible (you will get outshined by Nova...but who cares?) and revive....teammante is across the map? teleport and revive then get a lot of thank yous

Just out of interest, as a devout Ash user, what are your opinions about the suggested Ash buffs (quoted above).

With regard to the smokescreen one, o was under the impression that it would be a small cloud that allies have to actively pass through to get the buff (like wormhole).

I too am a big fan of Ash, I go through stages of using him religiously for everything. But then I use another frame that just makes Ash feel less than adequate and I feel bad for the frame.

[RejectionOfFate]

  

Just out of interest, as a devout Ash user, what are your opinions about the suggested Ash buffs (quoted above).

With regard to the smokescreen one, o was under the impression that it would be a small cloud that allies have to actively pass through to get the buff (like wormhole).

I too am a big fan of Ash, I go through stages of using him religiously for everything. But then I use another frame that just makes Ash feel less than adequate and I feel bad for the frame.

I had made a feedback thread for Ash before.. give Ash a team skill in making Smokescreen a Team-Wide Invisibility trigger, but with the same duration, as it is for teamplay, than Loki's. Teleport is Teleport. Not much to do there. As for Bladestorm... I do like that the melee mode combo damage modifier affects Bladestorm's damage in each strike. It is rather nice. It could also use the added benefit of Stealth Damage, that 400% damage boost would be lovely, if used with Smokescreen.

[Sorez]

The shuriken is great for taking out flying enemies in an all melee run, but it does need a buff in some way, stun, damage, anything.

 

Smoke screen, either it has to be longer, or cloak other players.

 

Teleport, make it free teleport, but not unlimited range, maybe dependant on its level and the stretch mod.

 

Bladestorm, many suggestions, and I personally would love one where you start stabbing one enemy with the awesome animation, while Ash-clones made out of smoke appear on the other targets doing the attack aswell. this way we can keep the awesome animations, only once per bladestorm, but also keeps it fast :3

[j0shh4nxd]

  

Just out of interest, as a devout Ash user, what are your opinions about the suggested Ash buffs (quoted above).

With regard to the smokescreen one, o was under the impression that it would be a small cloud that allies have to actively pass through to get the buff (like wormhole).

I too am a big fan of Ash, I go through stages of using him religiously for everything. But then I use another frame that just makes Ash feel less than adequate and I feel bad for the frame.

I personally am not a big fan of shuriken and I would rather have it taken out

1st ability= team buff to like stick onto walls...? Sorta like how in Naruto they focus chakra onto their feet so that they could like stand upside down and such

teleport= free aim teleport always at 15 in game meters, when targetting an enemy a maximum of 50 meters.

smokescreen= I'd rather have smokescreen be a large AOE affected by duration and range mods...Enemies would have 75% lower visibility...and be susceptible to friendly fire...Ash and his teammates will have the 400% melee buff and take 50% reduced damage while inside the smokescreen (not invisibility).

bladestorm= be affected by the hit counter and cause enemies to be in a state of confusion and/or fear

Edited April 23, 2014 by j0shh4nxd

[TunaMayo]

I had made a feedback thread for Ash before.. give Ash a team skill in making Smokescreen a Team-Wide Invisibility trigger, but with the same duration, as it is for teamplay, than Loki's. Teleport is Teleport. Not much to do there. As for Bladestorm... I do like that the melee mode combo damage modifier affects Bladestorm's damage in each strike. It is rather nice. It could also use the added benefit of Stealth Damage, that 400% damage boost would be lovely, if used with Smokescreen.

  

I personally am not a big fan of shuriken and I would rather have it taken out

1st ability= team buff to like stick onto walls...? Sorta like how in Naruto they focus chakra onto their feet so that they could like stand upside down and such

teleport= free aim teleport always at 15 in game meters, when targetting an enemy a maximum of 50 meters.

smokescreen= I'd rather have smokescreen be a large AOE affected by duration and range mods...Enemies would have 75% lower visibility...and be susceptible to friendly fire...Ash and his teammates will have the 400% melee buff and take 50% reduced damage while inside the smokescreen (not invisibility).

bladestorm= be affected by the hit counter and cause enemies to be in a state of confusion and/or fear

The issue with a team wide AoE smokescreen is that it is completely involuntary, atleast if it was a cloud of smoke then other players have some say in it. Also, say you are relying on team aggro say when defending an objective or a rescue target, team wide involuntary invisibility might not be beneficial.

Also changing how smokescreen functions would annoy many ash users.

On the shuriken, I remember seeing a post that suggested that ash threw ninja tacks on the ground infront of him. Maybe that could double as an enemy debuff and team buff? Have it damage enemies that step on it, then it could have any debuff (slow, bleed proc, stun, stagger etc), or you could even have explosive tacks with blast proc. For team buff (to incorporate your ide), you could make it so that the tacks stick on warframes feet, giving you the ability to "stick" to walls or extended wall run?

With regards to bladestorm, the stealth bonus would be lovely. But some sort off debuff on marked enemies would also be welcome!

[Acino]

Haven't posted lately (he he 10 posts per year), but as a ASH main this thread caught my attention, and I'd really like to see some buffs eventho #ashMasterRace...

 

These are my worthless ideas.

 

The ult should scale with your melee weapon damage, and it could basically work like it used to but the execution should be instant to all marked targets. (Can't be op since nova can throw balls of 100k damage #soma)

 

Smoke screen should be his teleport ability: free target if possible but to give aoe smoke stagger blast just like the original smoke screen but this time in the location you just teleported.

 

Invisiblity should be just like loki's: 12 seconds + ash should appear as dark smoke to his allies (dope? yes?). (8 seconds with 35 energy cost is actually just fine too, IF it would be instacast)

 

And shuriken could just proc VERY strong bleed to targets who survive the nuke and be 25-50% more vulnerable to damage.

 

Over Powered? Probably. Fun? Yes.

 

Continue.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Acino

[Arlayn]

Ash is great if you know how to move like a Synthesia playing Death Waltz on its impossible remix then yeah your unstoppable. You need to be smart, tactical, swift, and precise. You can't just play warframe like a rhino. Just walking in a straight line, and shooting. If you move in a straight line your going to die. If you play as Ash stay close to walls, and run in diagonal lines, and do a lot of jumping, sliding, and coptering to evade attacks. Maybe even throw in some rolling. Use the bladestorm if someone tries to do a knock down attack or if a disruptor tries to disrupt you. You can actually evade disruption if you time the blade storm just right. Ash is pretty hard to stop if you keep moving, and killing everything in the game. It also helps to bring ideal weapons with him...

[Brasten]

If your running duration on Smokebomb your using it wrong in my experience. I've found that a high efficiency, lower duration, Ash works better. If you use smoke bomb as a combo damage buff and enemy disruption it works better than trying to prevent your the Invisible Man Loki. By having a low duration you throw more Smokebombs and stagger/disrupt the enemy more frequently. Even a momment of assured stagger, when timed well, can be a big deal.

Teleport gives you enough time in the stagger on the target to drop a Smokebomb. That's right teleport into Smokebomb, not the other way around.

No, Ash is not a defensive frame. That's fine because not all frames are good at static defense. He's a very aggressive frame.

Shrunken is perhaps still his weakest power, like many Warframe #1s, because it's basically pure damage, which guns and weapons do and scale better at. It's not just Ash on that.

Currently the only thing I'd like to see done with Ash is much what Novas Ult or Hydroids Ult does. If there was a Debuff applied to enemies marked in Red. A slow, an armor or accuracy drop, etc. This would make the delay between hops of damage far more worthwhile in a team or defense situation. It would also give Bladestorm a viable extensions into late game.

[SquirmyBurrito]

Why do people bother posting threads that just antagonize or annoy fans of various warframes? Shouldn't we be seeing more threads about how to effectively use each frame instead of just calling all of them useless because you don't personally enjoy or know how to use them?

 

Did it ever occur to you that maybe these threads have nothing to do with fans and are actually made to provide constructive criticism regarding a perceived problem?

 

Now that melee is viable, Ash himself is pretty amazing. Switch teleport is a much greater hassle to use than Ash's teleport as far as getting into melee goes, and unlike Loki, Ash can actually nail fliers without pulling out his gun.

 

Radial Disarm makes the fliers (and everyone else) come to me.

 

give Ash a team skill in making Smokescreen a Team-Wide Invisibility trigger, but with the same duration, as it is for teamplay, than Loki's.

 

Having it affect the entire team and last just as long as Loki's reverses the current roles and makes Invisibility the redundant skill. That solves one problem by creating another.

 

teleport= free aim teleport

 

Why is this change necessary?

 

Ash is great if you know how to move like a Synthesia playing Death Waltz on its impossible remix then yeah your unstoppable. You need to be smart, tactical, swift, and precise. You can't just play warframe like a rhino. Just walking in a straight line, and shooting. If you move in a straight line your going to die. If you play as Ash stay close to walls, and run in diagonal lines, and do a lot of jumping, sliding, and coptering to evade attacks. Maybe even throw in some rolling. Use the bladestorm if someone tries to do a knock down attack or if a disruptor tries to disrupt you. You can actually evade disruption if you time the blade storm just right. Ash is pretty hard to stop if you keep moving, and killing everything in the game. It also helps to bring ideal weapons with him...

 

That applies to most/all frames... (minus the frame specific stuff about bladestorm)

[SirAuron]

Here's a quick fix:

 

Shurikens should cripple and make enemies bleed and bleed should do good damage.

 

Smokescreen should blind close enemies while cloaking.

 

Holding down 3 should make you gut the enemy you teleport to while you get cloaked (or he gets blinded) causing him to bleed. Not holding it down simply blinds nearby enemies as well or cloaks you after teleporting.

 

Bladestorm should be fast and blind everyone and make ones he cuts up bleed if they live.

 

Bleed is the main thing here. MAKE EM BLEED!

 

And lower shuriken energy cost or make it worth that cost by making bleed damage worth it. 

 

And make teleport gutting have an impact by making enemy slowly recover but not too slow.

 

There's your quick fix.

Edited April 23, 2014 by SirAuron

[DemiDeus]

DE should really switch Loki and Ash as starter frames. Loki can really ruin a new players experience because they don't have the right mods or weapons so early on(modding and fusion was also poorly explained back then). I stopped playing for months because my Loki kept on dying on me and I couldn't get get though some missions without someone carrying me through it. Ash on the other hand is great around the inner planets even without rare or high ranked mods. He can stay that way until the player makes their 2nd frame or really gets used to the game and have a good stock of mods.

A long time ago I was running sabatoge mission earth testing out a new weapon. When a ranked 8 guy with his loki came in. I saw his shield and hp were low and I knew it was new. He went down after 2 minutes. 2nd loki came in with higher shields and hp a few moments later. I don't remember his rank but from the sound of his gun I knew he was still using mk1. He also went down like a brick after a few minutes. Through out the mission the ranked 8 went down twice and the mk1 went down 4 times. While they were down they both complained how useless Loki was and asked how I kept going. Told them both my loki was just modded right and I felt the same way when I first used him. After the mission I gave them a few pointers and the newer guy a few mods.

Few days ago I was trying out my Attica when an ash came in. Low rank, shields, health and he was using the regular braton. He did great on mars. I only had to revive the guy once. He used his shurikin and smoke bomb pretty well. Compared to the two spamming Loki's that went down so quickly months ago. Ash would be a better starter frame because he can fight with both weapons and skills. Where a starting loki would only have their gun and that can only do so much.

Edit

Just wanted to add Ash is 100% pure ninja. And if they were to buff his ult. They should let ash kill all in an area at the same time. When he uses his ult. clones like loki decoy can spawn an do one of the killing animations. Even raising the limit of the amount he can kill to 18 would be great but allow him to spawn 2 clones and ash and his clones can kill 6 each instead of ash by him self killing 14 one by one by one

Edited April 24, 2014 by DemiDeus

[suadumpy]

By the way, Ash's Smokescreen will ALWAYS activate Berserker now.