Glorious Battle And Victory In The Name Of Your Clan [Dark Sector Megathread]

[stax496]

but shadows of vengeance defended pluto from eclipse successfully without any battlepay or taxes, doesn't this show people support free rails more than taxed rails with battepay? Isn't free rails an incentive?

Edited April 30, 2014 by jdormbandit3

[Liminal]

but shadows of vengeance defended pluto from eclipse successfully without any battlepay or taxes, doesn't this show people support free rails more than taxed rails with battepay? Isn't free rails an incentive?

Not really, sadly. It only shows an overwhelming opposition to Eclipse.

I wish WiK had gotten the same support in Venus...

[stax496]

Can someone prove mathematically whether eclipse's rates are fair or not? what can we try and do to try and logically reach a unanimous conclusion?

[Kazzamo]

It is sad WiK lost their rail in Venus, but the fact is the SoV rail was more important. Not because it was Eclipse attacking but because the SoV rail is in a spot that pays much much more than the WiK rail did. Also there is still a free rail in that area owned by Ghost Bear.

[Yurilica]

Full disclosure I am part of eclipse…

 

 

 

I'd like to know what rank you are in Eclipse for you to be able to make a single-person blanket statement for an entire alliance of 30~ clans.

 

Also, get over yourself. A lot of you in Eclipse seem to think you're providing a service to other players.

Eclipse doesn't provide a "service" to other players. It never did. 

The community didn't complain to Eclipse about the length of the conflicts, they complained to DE.

And DE fixed it by introducing the Armistice period. Eclipse as an alliance only plays in the system DE sets up.

 

I don't see anyone charging 25% tax on every, on ANY rail they own.

Since there's a much longer peacetime period between conflicts now and rail maintenance is ridiculously cheap, there is absolutely no reason to even keep that 25% tax. Eclipse is the only one to currently even have 25% tax, on all of their rails. For no legitimate reason other than "because we can".

 

That ain't a way to make friends. Posting "justification" posts like this also doesn't help Eclipse, it just fuels their opposition with more information about how full their members are of themselves.

 

Rail maintenance costs are pocket change. If that's Eclipse's main justification for high taxes, then they can't see the forest for the trees.

[--Q--AFKrasul]

but shadows of vengeance defended pluto from eclipse successfully without any battlepay or taxes, doesn't this show people support free rails more than taxed rails with battepay? Isn't free rails an incentive?

 

No, because if everyone was offered 0% tax, there would be no incentive, please read my post. thanks

[Blatantfool]

Can someone prove mathematically whether eclipse's rates are fair or not? what can we try and do to try and logically reach a unanimous conclusion?

 

 I'm not entirely sure what you expect to see in the numbers.

 

 I mean, just play the Node through once. Look at the kind of Credits and Materials you're making. Decide if the rates feel right for what you want that way. 

 

 You've only gotta ask yourself "Could I be doing better than this on another node? Do I feel like the Rates are cutting into my ability to make this work out for me?"

 

 I can't help but imagine everybody would be a bit different in that sense, you know?

[stax496]

can you link your post in the convo akrasul? idk how to quote or multiquote lol, just joined forum after this mess of an update named dark sectors

Edited April 30, 2014 by jdormbandit3

[Dread_Rider_Juno]

Can someone prove mathematically whether eclipse's rates are fair or not? what can we try and do to try and logically reach a unanimous conclusion?

people lose 5750 credit(11500 with booster) per run

 

It is sad WiK lost their rail in Venus, but the fact is the SoV rail was more important. Not because it was Eclipse attacking but because the SoV rail is in a spot that pays much much more than the WiK rail did. Also there is still a free rail in that area owned by Ghost Bear.

at of right now SOV's pluto is the best place to run. Venus like many other dark sectors, no one cares about. must of had more clan members of the other clan run it.

[Yurilica]

Can someone prove mathematically whether eclipse's rates are fair or not? what can we try and do to try and logically reach a unanimous conclusion?

 

 

The evidence is in the mere existence of 0% tax rails like Sechura-Pluto and Romula-Venus.

 

Eclipse members called Sechura a "0% graveyard that can't last". Eclipse's main motivation for going after Sechura was to eradicate the proof that a 0% tax rate is viable. Those rails survived and beat back every attacked launched at them.

When Eclipse actually tried going after it, they got curbstomped so hard that SoV's rail never dropped below 90%.

The attacked failed spectacularly and showed what the community thinks about potential taxes on a high-profit Sector like Sechura.

 

No, because if everyone was offered 0% tax, there would be no incentive, please read my post. thanks

 

The incentive to contest sectors and actually tax it has to come from DE's side as an addition to the Dark Sector system.

This has been announced already in the latest devstream.

 

For some reason Eclipse members think that Eclipse needs to artificially provide incentive for conflicts.

There is absolutely no reason, no requirement for that. The real conflicts start with the expansion of the Dark Sector system. The real clan and alliance battles will start there. Until then, most clans are uninterested and others are simply doing it because there's not much else to do for them.

 

But there is no actual benefit to hold a large number of rails at this point. You need credits? Send that mass of members you have to Sechura - Pluto and make some. Most of your members use it to farm credits anyway.

 

Hell, the funny thing is, a lot of Eclipse members actually fought FOR SoV in the Sechura conflict. SoV members didn't even try to defend it themselves, it was a community effort.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Yurilica

[--Q--AFKrasul]

I'd like to know what rank you are in Eclipse for you to be able to make a single-person blanket statement for an entire alliance of 30~ clans.

 

Also, get over yourself. A lot of you in Eclipse seem to think you're providing a service to other players.

Eclipse doesn't provide a "service" to other players. It never did. 

The community didn't complain to Eclipse about the length of the conflicts, they complained to DE.

And DE fixed it by introducing the Armistice period. Eclipse as an alliance only plays in the system DE sets up.

 

I don't see anyone charging 25% tax on every, on ANY rail they own.

Since there's a much longer peacetime period between conflicts now and rail maintenance is ridiculously cheap, there is absolutely no reason to even keep that 25% tax. Eclipse is the only one to currently even have 25% tax, on all of their rails. For no legitimate reason other than "because we can".

 

That ain't a way to make friends. Posting "justification" posts like this also doesn't help Eclipse, it just fuels their opposition with more information about how full their members are of themselves.

 

Rail maintenance costs are pocket change. If that's Eclipse's main justification for high taxes, then they can't see the forest for the trees.

 

And what exactly do with the tax? Do we not give it back to community in form of battle pay to make conflicts end quicker? Its not justification, its the reason behind the tax. What do you think we do with the money? We have spend more than anyone in conflict, and we have done the most damage to date, which means we have ended conflicts the fastest and most quickest way, making it possible for the public to use the dark sectors as quickly as possible. 

 

What do you think would have happened if no one taxed? How about a battle between 2 alliances/clans with no battle pay, with the offer of 0% tax, who would you side for? Public wouldnt care and wont do conflicts which would lead to alliance/clan members doing the brunt of the damage which means rail battle will last a lot longer, probably the whole 12 hour battle time. 

 

Anyway here is the fact. We tax 25%= all is given in battle pay to end conflicts. All are given back to public. Is that greed?

[stax496]

if everyone was offered 0% tax then the incentive to put up a rail would be to support the community and the incentive to fight for that 0% rail would be to support the community... what do you mean no incentive?

I heard that it is possible to change the battlepay whenever you want, so theoretically you could set ridiculous battlepay for short amount of time so that your own members would fight for the rails in that short period of time so your members have financial incentive to defend it, this would keep the money within the clan.

im keen to wait 12 hours for darks sectors to open up for a few days if both sides offer 0% and slug it out

[--Q--AFKrasul]

if everyone was offered 0% tax then the incentive to put up a rail would be to support the community and the incentive to fight for that 0% rail would be to support the community...  what do you mean no incentive?

 

God you didnt read my post. In a utopian system, like the start of darksectors where everyone offered 0% tax on rails, If another alliance/clan attacked offering the same 0% tax, you would have 2 alliances or clans fighting with the proposition of 0% tax. and since defending rails dont tax, they cant offer good battle pay, the same with attacking rail. So basically the community with say, eh what is the point of these 2 and wont care to help out in conflict. Which leads to stagnant battle in which only the respective allianace/ clan members fighting for rails = very long battle, proabaly the whole cooldown of 12 hours (before 24 hours).

 

And please dont talk about battle pay since you have no experience with how it works. Battle pay is set with a set number of runs. Other alliance have been doing the bait and switch, while we tried to mainatin an appropriate number of tickets for our battle pay.. 

Edited April 30, 2014 by akrasul

[Yurilica]

Anyway here is the fact. We tax 25%= all is given in battle pay to end conflicts. All are given back to public. Is that greed?

Choose your words wisely when you speak for an entire group of people.

"All" is a strong word with clear meaning. Your statement is wrong.

Even in the first week of conflicts when there was no Armistice period, Eclipse funneled over 27 million credits into just one batch of their conflicts.

Most of that wasn't actually used up.

Since then, Eclipses credit reserves increased from taxes and member contributions.

Only a fraction of what is taxed is actually spent as battle pay.

Then again, considering the tax rates, i imagine a lot of people actively avoid your rails anyway.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Yurilica

[PhotriusPyrelus]

And what exactly do with the tax? Do we not give it back to community in form of battle pay to make conflicts end quicker?

 

If you're just going to give it back, why take it in the first place.  Stop playing Robin Hood; you're not.  Your battle pay is trash compared to runnig Sechura.  And really ending that fight on Carcoal so quick.  SO QUICK.

[--Q--AFKrasul]

Choose your words wisely when you speak for an entire group of people.

"All" is a strong word with clear meaning. Your statement is wrong.

Even in the first week of conflicts when there was no Armistice period, Eclipse funneled over 27 million credits into just one batch of their conflicts.

Most of that wasn't actually used up.

Since then, Eclipses credit reserves increased from taxes and member contributions.

Only a fraction of what is taxed is actually spent as battle pay.

Then again, considering the tax rates, i imagine a lot of people actively avoid your rails anyway.

Excuse me but I see all our money going to battle pay, we have spent most of it in fact, and ofcrouse we keep reserve for future battle, we aren't stupid to spend it all and have 0 in alliance vault. We have to have a buffer, or a safe amount incase of future battles.

[Kazzamo]

Here's the thing. With the way the tax hits those of us with boosters... if we want to get our taxes back we have to take out twice as much as we put in. So yeah battlepay is a horrid way to give back as it currently stands. Just let people keep their money, and hey. Plenty of rails locked up at different times so there is always somewhere  you can go and always somewhere you can farm for the drops from a conflict. That's a win win for 0 tax rails.

[stax496]

If only eclipse alliance showed us their Income statement for their rail projects along with screenshots to prove their numbers are genuine... but i don't think anyone can be bothered, or be willing to give away their details, or have the accounting knowledge to create one

[Dread_Rider_Juno]

Excuse me but I see all our money going to battle pay, we have spent most of it in fact, and ofcrouse we keep reserve for future battle, we aren't stupid to spend it all and have 0 in alliance vault. We have to have a buffer, or a safe amount incase of future battles.

it wouldn't have to all go to battle pay if your group didn't anger so many people. also you spread yourselves pretty thin with the amount of solar rails you have. I bet if the some people were running the ceres last night as the night before you would of lost it. at this point how is this economically sound for you.

 

Like i've told you in an older post, if you don't like people hating your group, your not going to convince very many people by justifying your actions, your going to have to actively do reputation cleaning. I recommend lowing taxes, I would be forgiving but I fear that may not be enough at this point.

Edited April 30, 2014 by junothefox

[-VS-AtLasVegas]

Choose your words wisely when you speak for an entire group of people.

"All" is a strong word with clear meaning. Your statement is wrong.

Even in the first week of conflicts when there was no Armistice period, Eclipse funneled over 27 million credits into just one batch of their conflicts.

Most of that wasn't actually used up.

Since then, Eclipses credit reserves increased from taxes and member contributions.

Only a fraction of what is taxed is actually spent as battle pay.

Then again, considering the tax rates, i imagine a lot of people actively avoid your rails anyway.

 

I won't speak about all numbers, but here is a small fact, which I think will interest all of those who think, that Eclipse doesn't spend the taxed money. 

In the last 3 days Eclipse spend over 600 Million Credits on Battle Pay. And NO, those aren't peanuts - it's a great amount.

They can only ensure you, that there is no excessive gathering of money - those 50k BP aren't cheap.

Edited April 30, 2014 by AtLasVegas-EGT-

[Letter13]

You are choosing sides, being BIASED here...you are influencing the community, this is not your place you are a forum moderator...you need to change your hat and put on a different badge if you want to try to sway the public to fight against a group in the game.

 

Do I honestly feel a need for some change in the forum moderation...YES.

 

Did you know that all of the forum moderators that control your voice in this forum have an "in game" agenda?

 

Submit a support ticket requesting that we have Neutrality and increased professionalism in our Moderators so that the potential for corruption and abuse is not given any more air to breath.

 

Submit your ticket today requesting improvements to quality of service in forum moderation!

So, you're saying we should be fired because we have our own feelings and opinions about things? In no way have our opinions on Dark Sectors or alliance conflicts have had any impact on our moderating of the forums. Have we "censored" your propaganda that you're posting? Are we forcibly controlling your voice? The answer is no.

 

As for an "in game" agenda, I DO have one. Can you guess what that agenda is? Click the spoiler tag if you really can't figure it out on your own...

My Agenda is FUN! :D

 

It just so happens that watching the competition of "Eclipse vs. Everyone Else" is very entertaining, like watching the superbowl or NBA playoffs.

 

Hate to say it, but I think it's you who's acting inappropriately. Saying that the moderators shouldn't participate in things like this and should only be emotionless machines isn't nice... In fact what you're doing is oppressing our own rights to free speech (insomuch as we don't violate the rules of the forums, naturally) by doing so. It's you who's oppressing and trying to censor us, not the other way around.

[PsychedelicSnake]

-snip-

Going by your logic, your opinion on things is not welcome either. Grand Masters are often looked up to by newer players! How DARE YOU infuence their opinions!

 

/Snake

[LeMoog]

Community Moderators are not DE employees and I would not have thought that taking on the position requires you to give up all personal beliefs or no one would want the job.

 

The moderators are there to prevent profanity and trolling etc i.e. the things listed in the forum rules, I dont see anything in those rules about not speaking your mind.

 

Attacking mods via their position because their opinion is different to yours is uncool, I notice that poster didnt get your inciteful posts against them removed even though you are supposed to show the mods respect.

 

I just had one of my threads disappear, presumably because some pro Eclipse player complained even though I broke no rules, this use of any weapon no matter how underhand is appauling.

 

As a personal note I have played MMO where the mods were biased and abused their position for the benefit of some in game group, I left those games to rot in their own corruption. I have seen nothing on warframe to indicate that is the case here.

 

All I see is the same tactics employed by real world politians to stiffle and censor reports of their corruption and to think I am paying for the pleasure of this

Edited April 30, 2014 by LeMoog

[-CM-LittleSnow]

I'd like to know what rank you are in Eclipse for you to be able to make a single-person blanket statement for an entire alliance of 30~ clans.

 

Also, get over yourself. A lot of you in Eclipse seem to think you're providing a service to other players.

Eclipse doesn't provide a "service" to other players. It never did. 

The community didn't complain to Eclipse about the length of the conflicts, they complained to DE.

And DE fixed it by introducing the Armistice period. Eclipse as an alliance only plays in the system DE sets up.

 

I don't see anyone charging 25% tax on every, on ANY rail they own.

Since there's a much longer peacetime period between conflicts now and rail maintenance is ridiculously cheap, there is absolutely no reason to even keep that 25% tax. Eclipse is the only one to currently even have 25% tax, on all of their rails. For no legitimate reason other than "because we can".

 

That ain't a way to make friends. Posting "justification" posts like this also doesn't help Eclipse, it just fuels their opposition with more information about how full their members are of themselves.

 

Rail maintenance costs are pocket change. If that's Eclipse's main justification for high taxes, then they can't see the forest for the trees.

 

 

 

 

 

The evidence is in the mere existence of 0% tax rails like Sechura-Pluto and Romula-Venus.

 

Eclipse members called Sechura a "0% graveyard that can't last". Eclipse's main motivation for going after Sechura was to eradicate the proof that a 0% tax rate is viable. Those rails survived and beat back every attacked launched at them.

When Eclipse actually tried going after it, they got curbstomped so hard that SoV's rail never dropped below 90%.

The attacked failed spectacularly and showed what the community thinks about potential taxes on a high-profit Sector like Sechura.

 

 

The incentive to contest sectors and actually tax it has to come from DE's side as an addition to the Dark Sector system.

This has been announced already in the latest devstream.

 

For some reason Eclipse members think that Eclipse needs to artificially provide incentive for conflicts.

There is absolutely no reason, no requirement for that. The real conflicts start with the expansion of the Dark Sector system. The real clan and alliance battles will start there. Until then, most clans are uninterested and others are simply doing it because there's not much else to do for them.

 

But there is no actual benefit to hold a large number of rails at this point. You need credits? Send that mass of members you have to Sechura - Pluto and make some. Most of your members use it to farm credits anyway.

 

Hell, the funny thing is, a lot of Eclipse members actually fought FOR SoV in the Sechura conflict. SoV members didn't even try to defend it themselves, it was a community effort.

 

 

1) Please justify the number of Eclipse members who ran for SoV during the conflict in Pluto. Provide numbers and evidence before making this accusation.

 

2)Take a look at Mars (Wahiba). Yes, lower credits tax but with 15% resource tax.

Next, take a look at Uranus (Assur). Again yes, lower credit tax but with 6% resource tax.

Lastly, take  a look at Ceres (Gabii). Again YES, lower credit tax but with 3% resource tax.

 

Do we tax your resources?? i don think so?

 

3) We have been lowering our taxes to only 15% credit tax and people are still screaming about 25%? Do not follow blindly over the topic without looking things with your own eyes.

 

4)If just because SoV's Warlord made a post about no one from the alliance played the rail and left it to the community to defend it on their own and you believe it. How about me saying Eclipse defeated all aggressors from our rails just by offering battlepay to the community and they took it down for us?

 

5)Lastly, yes, repairing a rail is cheap. Lets take the current rail at Jupiter(Caraol) as an example now with 28% health. To recover 72% it takes about 300k. Next, count the amount of tickets we paid out as 15k credits (100) which is 1.5million. 

 

 

Hmm, may i question you, how are we actually eating your resources away and benefiting from the tax when we are giving it back.

 

 

If you're just going to give it back, why take it in the first place.  Stop playing Robin Hood; you're not.  Your battle pay is trash compared to runnig Sechura.  And really ending that fight on Carcoal so quick.  SO QUICK.

 

1)If you find the battlepay trash, just simply don run it :) no one is forcing you to, you had a choice to fight the aggressors :). 

 

2)We take the rails because this is what DE introduced the dark sectors for. WE ARE PLAYING THE GAME and we do not need your permission to do anything.

 

3)You want the conflict to end fast but you do not want to do anything about it? Wow dude, the world doesnt  revolve you. You want it to end fast do something about it :).

[-----iseeu2-----]

 

3) We have been lowering our taxes to only 15% credit tax and people are still screaming about 25%? Do not follow blindly over the topic without looking things with your own eyes.

 

Man, you really need to open your eyes. The 15% credit tax on some of Eclipse's nodes are limited to alliance members. Their public tax rate has been 25% for a while now, and still is at 25% across all their nodes. Seriously, you should make sure you have hard facts at hand before you go about refuting an argument.

 

Here you go:

http://deathsnacks.com/wf/

 

All the information you need, is on there. Including tax rates. Updated in real time.

EDIT: That's not my site, no. But it's one I use all the damn time because it's extremely useful.

Edited April 30, 2014 by iseeu2