Psa - What It Takes To Make Warframe

[Darkfreack]

There seems to be a lot of issues around the forums recently, with this whole balance and lack of updates conversations every other post. So I decided I would go out of my way to make a video to help shed some light onto everything.

 

Disclaimer: This post is to help others understand what it takes to make a video game. What is done behind the scenes at an studio when its time to code, animate, record etc. With your help we can reduce all this blind sighted judging on the forums. Thank you.

 

I have made a video for those who are of the TL:DR mentality so here it is.

 

For everyone else:

 

Developing a game is a long and difficult procedure, it takes time, planning, preparation, and dedication. This is nothing new to some of you, the point I want to make is that everything is not ready at once or at the same time. Just because we get one bit of information here and there, doesn't mean that's all they are working on, it is far from it to be honest.

 

If everyone on here were to go to the community hot topics and read there, you would see where is everything and anything that is on the road map for the next few weeks on there. It is updated weekly to bi-weekly, it tells you what they are considering and what is in the works. The team is rather large but still small but other standards, they have limited resources, and limited man power like any other company. The team has a ton of things to do at the same time, with the same people doing multiple things at times.

 

Art Team: Weapon art, Level art, environmental art, enemy type, etc

 

Animation Team: Enemy, Gun, Melee, Interaction, etc

 

Sound Team: Enemy, Gun, Melee, environmental, dialogue, Music, Tenno Power, etc

 

We can do this all day really...

 

Point is Kubrow are on the way, Warframe nerf and buffs are on the way, story and lore as well. We just have to give them time to get things done in the end. There is a reason why making games takes 2-5 year unless you are recycling assets every single year.

 

If you guys really care about this game comment on here and be supportive. Stop all the flaming, all the hate, all the toxic behavior. Be reasonable and logical when seeing changes and expressing opinions.

 

Thanks for your time and support

- Darkfreack

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheDarkfreack

[Gryphticon]

There seems to be a lot of issues around the forums recently, with this whole balance and lack of updates conversations every other post. So I decided I would go out of my way to make a video to help shed some light onto everything.

 

Disclaimer: This post is to help others understand what it takes to make a video game. What is done behind the scenes at an studio when its time to code, animate, record etc. With your help we can reduce all this blind sighted judging on the forums. Thank you.

 

I have made a video for those who are of the TL:DR mentality so here it is.

 

For everyone else:

 

Developing a game is a long and difficult procedure, it takes time, planning, preparation, and dedication. This is nothing new to some of you, the point I want to make is that everything is not ready at once or at the same time. Just because we get one bit of information here and there, doesn't mean that's all they are working on, it is far from it to be honest.

 

If everyone on here were to go to the community hot topics and read there, you would see where is everything and anything that is on the road map for the next few weeks on there. It is updated weekly to bi-weekly, it tells you what they are considering and what is in the works. The team is rather large but still small but other standards, they have limited resources, and limited man power like any other company. The team has a ton of things to do at the same time, with the same people doing multiple things at times.

 

Art Team: Weapon art, Level art, environmental art, enemy type, etc

 

Animation Team: Enemy, Gun, Melee, Interaction, etc

 

Sound Team: Enemy, Gun, Melee, environmental, dialogue, Music, Tenno Power, etc

 

We can do this all day really...

 

Point is Kubrow are on the way, Warframe nerf and buffs are on the way, story and lore as well. We just have to give them time to get things done in the end. There is a reason why making games takes 2-5 year unless you are recycling assets every single year.

 

If you guys really care about this game comment on here and be supportive. Stop all the flaming, all the hate, all the toxic behavior. Be reasonable and logical when seeing changes and expressing opinions.

 

Thanks for your time and support

- Darkfreack

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheDarkfreack

 

They are recycling Dark sector assets. Plenty of proof in the game code.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Gryphticon

[Archistopheles]

I'm going to link this thread whenever someone says "lazy design" in regards to new content.

[Lowsodium]

Being critical of this game has proven to be detrimental to ones ability to actually post. Or people jump down your throat for pointing out something wrong. I've noticed that people mention that they love the game several time when they are pointing out something they dislike, like they are afraid what would happen or how people would react if they simply pointed something wrong with the game out. I don't know where you are seeing all this toxic behavior, but EVERY SINGLE update or hotfix is FLOODED with "Thanks DE." Before anyone has even played the update. Blind praise even if the fix/update is broken or damaging to the game. I think that behavior is more toxic, as it prevents people from actually telling DE they are doing something wrong. It encases them in a blanket of support that will make them blind to their faults.

[Sidathe]

Being critical of this game has proven to be detrimental to ones ability to actually post. Or people jump down your throat for pointing out something wrong. I've noticed that people mention that they love the game several time when they are pointing out something they dislike, like they are afraid what would happen or how people would react if they simply pointed something wrong with the game out. I don't know where you are seeing all this toxic behavior, but EVERY SINGLE update or hotfix is FLOODED with "Thanks DE." Before anyone has even played the update. Blind praise even if the fix/update is broken or damaging to the game. I think that behavior is more toxic, as it prevents people from actually telling DE they are doing something wrong. It encases them in a blanket of support that will make them blind to their faults.

I think it's all down to how things are worded. Most of the time, if someone's being critical...they either present it calmly, or it ends up reading something like, "This change sucks and everyone who likes it should go @(*()$ die in a ditch @(*()$ F*** F*** F***."

 

Edit: The F needed to match the rest. :P

Edited May 17, 2014 by Sidathe

[Letter13]

"Thanks DE." Before anyone has even played the update. Blind praise even if the fix/update is broken or damaging to the game. 

I'm pretty sure that the majority of "Thanks DE" posts on hotfix threads aren't "blind praise" as you put it. They're thanking DE for their continued work on the game. 

 

For example, when DE pushes out a hotfix at 1 AM (yes, this has in fact happened, several times from what I remember), that sort of thing is deserving of thanks in my opinion (they are sacrificing their sleep in order to fix bugs).

 

On other hotfix notes that are for a small group of things (i.e. if it's a hotfix that fixes 5 or 6 things like UI bugs, foundry problems, etc) there isn't really much to say beyond "Thanks" anyway, since there aren't major changes.

 

Beyond that, we have feedback forums for the majority of feedback, and DE has been incredibly open about upcoming changes to mechanics in the game (i.e. frame ability changes) and have been gathering feedback from the Developer Workshop threads. It's much better than not announcing the change and then just implementing it to leave people fumbling with the patch notes.

 

 

 

It's perfectly natural to thank someone for their time and effort.

[Ja_man]

maybe if the reward tables weren't so ridiculously stacked in the favor of getting trash mods/prime parts we wouldn't be in such whiny moods.

[Hexerin]

it doesn't take years to make games, as proven by tiny indie studios consisting of only a few people that make tripleA quality titles in a year or less.

[Drlathe]

There is multiple sides to this, one side blindly praises DE, one side thinks everything DE does is terrible, and then there is the side that calls out DE's screw-ups and praises the good bits. The problem being DE makes alot of non-sensical decisions, so there are plenty of people who legitimately call them out. Sadly there are plenty more who simply think DE can do no wrong which they do, alot. I love this game and I want it to be good so im highly critical of it.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

I think it's all down to how things are worded. Most of the time, if someone's being critical...they either present it calmly, or it ends up reading something like, "This change sucks and everyone who likes it should go @(*()$ die in a ditch @(*()$ F*** F*** F***."

 

Edit: The F needed to match the rest. :P

 

  Pretty much this. When I express my thoughts or critiques it is my opinion. It maybe lost in the forum void, but they are my thoughts. I recognize the hard work DE puts in and am astonished with what they have accomplished as an independent studio. So, when I put my two cents in, its just what I think would help, not what must happen. Most games with these kinds of assets spend years in closed beta, so DE really is putting themselves out there to share an unfinished product publicly.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

it doesn't take years to make games, as proven by tiny indie studios consisting of only a few people that make tripleA quality titles in a year or less.

 

  Actually is pretty rare. And even most of those, "AAA games" are not as complicated or involved as Warframe. Even if DE makes mistakes, it is a free to play game, where you don't have to pay to win. So, if DE wants to focus on making new content and is a little late on QQ, who is anyone to judge?

[Darkfreack]

Being critical of this game has proven to be detrimental to ones ability to actually post. Or people jump down your throat for pointing out something wrong. I've noticed that people mention that they love the game several time when they are pointing out something they dislike, like they are afraid what would happen or how people would react if they simply pointed something wrong with the game out. I don't know where you are seeing all this toxic behavior, but EVERY SINGLE update or hotfix is FLOODED with "Thanks DE." Before anyone has even played the update. Blind praise even if the fix/update is broken or damaging to the game. I think that behavior is more toxic, as it prevents people from actually telling DE they are doing something wrong. It encases them in a blanket of support that will make them blind to their faults.

 

Toxic behavior was no specified to be exact. It can be toxic in a positive and negative manner. If it does not help the game development in a constructive manner it can be argued as toxic.

 

I'm pretty sure that the majority of "Thanks DE" posts on hotfix threads aren't "blind praise" as you put it. They're thanking DE for their continued work on the game. 

 

For example, when DE pushes out a hotfix at 1 AM (yes, this has in fact happened, several times from what I remember), that sort of thing is deserving of thanks in my opinion (they are sacrificing their sleep in order to fix bugs).

 

On other hotfix notes that are for a small group of things (i.e. if it's a hotfix that fixes 5 or 6 things like UI bugs, foundry problems, etc) there isn't really much to say beyond "Thanks" anyway, since there aren't major changes.

 

Beyond that, we have feedback forums for the majority of feedback, and DE has been incredibly open about upcoming changes to mechanics in the game (i.e. frame ability changes) and have been gathering feedback from the Developer Workshop threads. It's much better than not announcing the change and then just implementing it to leave people fumbling with the patch notes.

 

 

 

It's perfectly natural to thank someone for their time and effort.

 

 

DE does so much for us if you are willing to look for it, or willing to accept it.

 

That's why I'm making this post really, its more of a look at what they do for us, and how they are doing it. Rather then something which can be zerged over and rejected.

 

They is no denying the amount of work and passion DE is putting into this game. Letter13 I think you can vouch for them on a personal level considering you've seen the office.

[OptimumBow0]

Being critical of this game has proven to be detrimental to ones ability to actually post. Or people jump down your throat for pointing out something wrong. I've noticed that people mention that they love the game several time when they are pointing out something they dislike, like they are afraid what would happen or how people would react if they simply pointed something wrong with the game out. I don't know where you are seeing all this toxic behavior, but EVERY SINGLE update or hotfix is FLOODED with "Thanks DE." Before anyone has even played the update. Blind praise even if the fix/update is broken or damaging to the game. I think that behavior is more toxic, as it prevents people from actually telling DE they are doing something wrong. It encases them in a blanket of support that will make them blind to their faults.

It's not bad to tell someone "thank you" for putting forth their best effort, is it? Though, I agree, someone who justifies DE's usage of grinding is probably not someone who should be in the forums.

 

Now, I'll talk about the other kind of toxicity. For example, there was a thread earlier today on Trinity. This is the OP's exact phrasing:

 

"Trinity has now become the worst frame.".

 

That's it. No helpful ideas, just "Trinity sucks", and he/she thought it was worth it to make a PSA about it. I would love to see that kind of "criticism" go away altogether.

 

I think when people say "DE works hard!" in responses to criticism, it's like forum code for "Hey man, you're being kinda rude, calm the frick down now, and ditch the attitude". Some people just don't want to deal with the repercussions of saying that, and they resort to the "DE is amazing!" quip. I guess we better man up and start politely telling each other we're being a bit rude.

Edited May 17, 2014 by OptimumBow0

[mogamu]

Great post Dark.

 

Considering the scope of Warframe DE has done a masterful job of pushing development on this game.  No one is perfect, but they listen to as much feedback as they can and try to make the best game they can.  Good luck getting 99% of other game devs to hear your suggestions and criticisms lol.

 

Good Dev, Good game, just keep giving them feedback and enjoy the ride *thumbsup.

[Darkfreack]

 he/she thought it was worth it to make a PSA about it.

 

I think when people say "DE works hard!" in responses to criticism, it's like forum code for "Hey man, you're being kinda rude, calm the frick down now, and ditch the attitude". Some people just don't want to deal with the repercussions of saying that, and they resort to the "DE is amazing!" quip. I guess we better man up and start politely telling each other we're being a bit rude.

 

 

I'm a guy and yes, we just cant avoid the issue and say unsupportive people should be ignored. All that does it allow those who acknowledge them and heat the flame to make it large and worse in the end.

[Hexerin]

  Actually is pretty rare. And even most of those, "AAA games" are not as complicated or involved as Warframe. Even if DE makes mistakes, it is a free to play game, where you don't have to pay to win. So, if DE wants to focus on making new content and is a little late on QQ, who is anyone to judge?

just pointing out that saying 'it takes years to make a game' isn't actually true.

[BlackBearStyle]

Being critical of this game has proven to be detrimental to ones ability to actually post. Or people jump down your throat for pointing out something wrong. I've noticed that people mention that they love the game several time when they are pointing out something they dislike, like they are afraid what would happen or how people would react if they simply pointed something wrong with the game out. I don't know where you are seeing all this toxic behavior, but EVERY SINGLE update or hotfix is FLOODED with "Thanks DE." Before anyone has even played the update. Blind praise even if the fix/update is broken or damaging to the game. I think that behavior is more toxic, as it prevents people from actually telling DE they are doing something wrong. It encases them in a blanket of support that will make them blind to their faults.

-Slow Clap-

[Letter13]

Toxic behavior was no specified to be exact. It can be toxic in a positive and negative manner. If it does not help the game development in a constructive manner it can be argued as toxic.

 

DE does so much for us if you are willing to look for it, or willing to accept it.

 

That's why I'm making this post really, its more of a look at what they do for us, and how they are doing it. Rather then something which can be zerged over and rejected.

 

They is no denying the amount of work and passion DE is putting into this game. Letter13 I think you can vouch for them on a personal level considering you've seen the office.

Well, I can tell you that they do work hard on the game and that they want to see it succeed and that they enjoy making the players happy (of course with a community as large as Warframe's is now, it's incredibly difficult to please everyone).

 

I think the most important thing when it comes to being critical when giving feedback on the game is to be constructive. I can tell you personally (and professionally to a degree) that when I only get negative feedback, or feedback that focuses only on the negative things it sort of hurts. When a client only lists the bad, it makes you start to question everything else (even the good things, because the client didn't mention that certain parts were good).

 

The best feedback touches on the good aspects and the bad in order to be both critical and offer positive reinforcement... For example:

"We really like what you did with feature 'x', spot on. But we think that feature 'y' needs to be changed because it could be better."

 

The biggest hurdle for people, it seems, is that they struggle to make constructive feedback posts because they've invested their time, money and emotions into the game and they've developed a passion for it which can sometimes go awry and turn into anger or rage directed at certain changes. Sometimes the angriest players are in fact the most passionate, which is a shame because you need to avoid letting emotions like anger and frustration take over when posting.

[Sasquatchias]

While I understand that developing a game takes time and effort, more time and effort than I can imagine, it does not excuse the fact that major issues brought up by so many people are seemingly ignored in favor of pushing more content. 

 

It doesn't help that DE's actions at times do not reflect their words. An example would be how a while back Scott (I believe it was Scott) said that they wanted to reduce the grind, yet ever since then there has been nothing but more grind. An example of what I mean would be the Vay Hek boss fight, or more specifically what is needed to actually get there.

 

And I know I sound ungrateful, but its just frustrating (IMHO) seeing stuff like this happen. I really do appreciate DE continuing to work on this game, I just really wish that they'd focus more on polishing/fixing up more of their old content rather than add more content that they have to hide behind even more grind walls lest their players get bored.

Edited May 17, 2014 by Sasquatch180

[OptimumBow0]

While I understand that developing a game takes time and effort, more time and effort than I can imagine, it does not excuse the fact that major issues brought up by so many people are seemingly ignored in favor of pushing more content. 

 

It doesn't help that DE's actions at times do not reflect their words. An example would be how a while back Scott (I believe it was Scott) said that they wanted to reduce the grind, yet ever since then there has been nothing but more grind. An example of what I mean would be the Vay Hek boss fight, or more specifically what is needed to actually get there.

Rescue Missions 2.0 - Specter Rewards are entirely based on skill, not RNG. There's still some hope. Yes, the grind to get to my favorite boss is insane, but with the arrival of a skill-based rewards system in Rescue, I have some faith DE will address the excessive grindwall. Some time soon, ideally.

 

I think the hard part is somehow extending that skill system to the whole game without turning the mission types themselves into a grind, and providing enough incentive to actually use some skill rather than run-and-gun.

[JefPlays]

I can appreciate this.

 

I've tried to develop games in the past. Maybe someday it'll get past the point of "some hackish piece of code which only seems game-like if you squint at it sideways hard enough." But for now, it's certainly beyond my ability to create something as complex as this game.

[Darkfreack]

While I understand that developing a game takes time and effort, more time and effort than I can imagine, it does not excuse the fact that major issues brought up by so many people are seemingly ignored in favor of pushing more content. 

 

It doesn't help that DE's actions at times do not reflect their words. An example would be how a while back Scott (I believe it was Scott) said that they wanted to reduce the grind, yet ever since then there has been nothing but more grind. An example of what I mean would be the Vay Hek boss fight, or more specifically what is needed to actually get there.

 

And I know I sound ungrateful, but its just frustrating (IMHO) seeing stuff like this happen. I really do appreciate DE continuing to work on this game, I just really wish that they'd focus more on polishing/fixing up more of their old content rather than add more content that they have to hide behind even more grind walls lest their players get bored.

 

 

Something I would like to point out is yes, this does happen a ton. We cant deny it, but on a developer point of view I can see why they are doing it, even if it is wrong to go back on ones word.

 

Its either fix "x" now just to fix it again when feature "y" is implemented.

 

Or

 

Put "x" in now whiles its ok, then implement "y" & "z" soon™. THEN Fix all 3 when its fair and even.

[Ishki88]

it doesn't take years to make games, as proven by tiny indie studios consisting of only a few people that make tripleA quality titles in a year or less.

Please name me 5 games.  No sarcasm.  I want to know.

[Hexerin]

Please name me 5 games.  No sarcasm.  I want to know.

https://www.google.com/

[Ishki88]

https://www.google.com/

Nobody...quoted...or asked you for your assistance....lol....but fine...if you are him..then basically you pulled your statement out ya as- codpiece