Thoughts On Releasing The Aklato Prime And Dual Skana Prime [Please Be Civil And Constructive]

[yuikami]

Everybody with a steam account since years ago always had the chance to look into this FREE TO PLAY game and decide take part in the founder, so if you happen to want the exclusive stuff now and you joined the game after the Founder Pack is over, that's just too little too late. There were banners and ads of Warframe EVERYWHERE!! Like no kidding, nearly every youtube page back then. You missed the chance on your own.

Edited June 10, 2014 by yuikami

[RoboDoge]

The things i would do to get a chance to obtain the "exclusives".

 

Too bad we have a bunch of selfish people who decided that we can't enjoy it as much as they do, i mean it's a PVE game goddamnit. I never got the chance to obtain them and DE has said that unlike the wraiths, we'll NEVER get a chance at getting excal prime lato prime skana prime.... NEVER. 

I don't care what you guys say, but all it sounds like to me is " BLAH BLAH BLAH WE'RE SELFISH BLAH BLAH BLAH TOO BAD FOR YOU WE SPENT MONEY". well i would gladly spend the 40 bucks, IF I WAS GIVEN THE CHANCE TO!

I would also gladly buy some slaves so i can start some high profit business. Though luck that slavery is outlawed ages ago so i cant. ( bad comparison but i was first one that came to my mind ).

 

If you missed something, you missed it. If DE stated 1 000 000 times that they are not going to bring Founders back, you should try to understand that. Or do you just like to cry and whine about things?

[PsychedelicSnake]

Everybody with a steam account since years ago always had the chance to look into this FREE TO PLAY game and take part in the founder, so if you happen to want the exclusive stuff now and you joined the game after the Founder Pack is over, that's just too little too late.

NO YUI! RUN!

 

GET OUT OF HERE. RUN WHILE YOU STILL CAN!

 

aaghhhghafjf

 

-gets caught in the argument-

[yuikami]

NO YUI! RUN!

 

GET OUT OF HERE. RUN WHILE YOU STILL CAN!

 

aaghhhghafjf

 

-gets caught in the argument-

Psss, you're suppose to defend your MFPrincess, righttt? :D

Edited June 10, 2014 by yuikami

[SabreUr]

Thread unlocked under condition that it will serve it's original purpose - Aklato Prime and Dual Skana Prime discussion.

[Mesyra]

We need to keep this on track now. no side conversations and keep discussion proper. only speak about the akimbo lato prime pistols and dual skana prime swords. 

 

once again, no narcissism, no whining, address each question and comment as you would like your own to be addressed. 

 

I do not want any name calling, distractions, or any foul play. keep the discussion real.

[Doom_Bunny]

A third chance make the most of it and keep it civil people.

[OniDax]

Why? It's just going to go in circles again. :p Anyway, I asked DEDrew over in the hot topics thread if we could get an answer on just how far exclusivity extends when it comes to these items. Because we will be going in circles because we're interpreting exclusivity in different ways. Hopefully we get a concrete answer on this because it really boils down to how DE extends this exclusivity.

Edited June 10, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Aggh]

Everybody with a steam account since years ago always had the chance to look into this FREE TO PLAY game and decide take part in the founder, so if you happen to want the exclusive stuff now and you joined the game after the Founder Pack is over, that's just too little too late. There were banners and ads of Warframe EVERYWHERE!! Like no kidding, nearly every youtube page back then. You missed the chance on your own.

Were AKlato prime and Dual Skana prime in any of those packs?

 

Why? It's just going to go in circles again. :p Anyway, I asked DEDrew over in the hot topics thread if we could get an answer on just how far exclusivity extends when it comes to these items. Because we will be going in circles because we're interpreting exclusivity in different ways. Hopefully we get a concrete answer on this because it really boils down to how DE extends this exclusivity.

It's only going in circles because people aren't willing to honestly answer simple questions.

 

 

40?! We paid well over 40 bucks. And no, we're not being selfish. We understand that DE needs to keep their word. And if they release anything resembling the founders weapons, those are those weapons in whatever form they take. But of course, we're selfish because DE decided to make them exclusive, and to stand by that. And we Founders are obviously selfish when we can see through your attempts to skirt around the issue by trying to get dual versions of the exclusives since you can't get the items themselves. No, you guys are jealous that we have something you don't, and you just can't accept that.. Too bad DE wont come here and address whether or not they consider dual versions to be a form of the exclusive items or not. That would put this debate to rest, but no, they just can't be bothered to do that. They can address whether or not an aklato prime in the trailer is in the game but they can't address whether or not something like that would violate the Founders agreement? Discussion on this issue is going around in circles because of two differing opinions on founders items: either that the only exclusivity claims are on the items only, not holding to the design/art of the item, or that exclusivity applies to all aspects of the items, including the design (and that copying only the exclusive design violates the agreement). The only thing that will resolve this is DE taking the time to address this.. Determining which view they hold will solve this issue once and for all.

Was the plat just $150-$400 worth of icing?  Founders packs were priced more than fairly and by the time the game reached OBT (5 months before the founders program ended) the game was already a clear success and founders were even able to get a reset on their accounts so they could spend their plat more efficiently as well.  Even in early beta it was pretty clear the game was going somewhere with the way the devs were patching it.  Founders was a gamble only for a pretty short period of time.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Aggh

[Mesyra]

aggh you're already getting heated, its been open for less than five minutes. cool it.

 

We are still going to wait on an official post on this, but until then, we can discuss possible solutions to release these weapons.

 

blatant fool suggested that the release these weapons and for the founders that have them, they get a 50% resource cost reduction on crafting them. I think this is a very good idea

[OniDax]

I just want them to release all the items back, give founders an option to receive plat as a refund (yes refund in lieu of impending legal argument, and I get that a monetary refund isn't really that practical for DE) or to like get some items of the next prime access free or something, and then open up the door for a buff to these weapons and to dual versions. But unfortunately that's not going to happen. But that'd be my perfect solution.

 

Aggh, it depends on just what the exclusivity applies to, and whether or not that includes anything that looks like the items in question. I've asked about this. Hopefully I get a concrete response. It's really up to DE to decide whether this exclusivity applies to only the item or to the item and how it looks. I'll say this. If it's ok to have an Aklato Prime that is pretty much two Latos Prime in each hand, then imo it's ok to have a new weapon that looks just like the Lato Prime but is named differently.

Edited June 10, 2014 by AntoineFlemming

[Doom_Bunny]

A reminder of solutions for both parties from the community.

 In my likely unpopular opinion, yeah. I think they should release a Dual Skana Prime and a Dual Lato Prime.

 

 I believe that the two weapons should require some seriously high mastery rank to craft and be rather expensive material-wise.

 

 I also believe that Founders who posses the Lato and Skana Primes should be able to craft the Dual Skana and Dual Lato Prime at half the material and credit cost AND should be exempt from the Mastery rank requirement. I think it'd be an appropriately cool nod to Founders.

 

 I don't think that it is worth arguing whether or not Skana and Lato Prime being Founders weapons should mean that Dual versions of either weapon shouldn't exist at all or should exist only for Founders. It's pretty nonsensical to want less weapons in the game. I feel like it is even worse to imply that DE should be saving certain weapons for Founders this long after the Founder packs ceased to exist.

 

 They should add the two Dual Primes eventually. Not now. Not even soon. Just eventually. Somewhere along the line. When they do they should just remember to package it with some special bonus that kicks in if you already happen to own the normal Lato or Skana Prime. Make the game say "OH! You've already got one of those old weapons! Great! So when you do craft the Dual versions you'll get something slightly different!"

 

 Perhaps add a glowing, gold aura to the dual primes if you own the singular Primes first as well. Just to be sexy. That way a Founder holding the Dual Prime is visibly unique to someone who just crafted the Dual Primes through a mountain of raw mats.

 

 

 There is my 2 cents. It is mostly rambling on the spot about what I think. I've been checking this thread on an off for a few days trying to really make up my mind what I thought would be 'the right thing' in my opinion.

 

Guys, I got a solution. Remember the website kit they put on their media page? Here's the image below, top right you can see the design for the lato. However, it doesn't have that bling that the primed version has. Maybe release that design as an alternate skin for the regular Lato.

 

[yuikami]

It doesn't matter if it's AK- or Dual, if it's has to use the same meshes from the exclusives, yet instead of having one, double it, then NOPE.

 

Sometimes you just don't deserve to have something because you don't deserve it. Let it go.

Edited June 10, 2014 by yuikami

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

I'm personally just as much against this suggested addition as I was already.  At the end of the day I would like to know why this could indeed fix the issue at hand.

 

People who dislike not having everything gain nothing with this addition.  They still will not have everything.

People who want all possible mastery gain nothing with this addition.  Any new weapon gives new mastery but they still lack the mastery given by the exclusives.

People who are anti-exclusive are obviously not appeased, no explanation needed.

 

I do respect that you are wanting this for the good of all.  However it doesn't, in true practice, benefit anyone realistically.

[Mesyra]

Aggh, it depends on just what the exclusivity applies to, and whether or not that includes anything that looks like the items in question. I've asked about this. Hopefully I get a concrete response. It's really up to DE to decide whether this exclusivity applies to only the item or to the item and how it looks. I'll say this. If it's ok to have an Aklato Prime that is pretty much two Latos Prime in each hand, then imo it's ok to have a new weapon that looks just like the Lato Prime but is named differently.

AKlato prime :3

 

all in all, this is correct, we have done our part of cutting down the possibilities, now we need a response from DE themselves. *waits*

[Yezzik]

It's a matter of interpretation. Some people interpret Founder Lato Prime exclusivity as being the Lato Prime item, others think it's the Lato Prime itself.

I'm in the former group. This particular argument is going to go nowhere. At least with the issue of balancing gameplay systems like Focus, there was the possibility of a compromise.

I can't see any chance of one here. The arguments are too diametrically opposed.

[Mesyra]

I'm personally just as much against this suggested addition as I was already.  At the end of the day I would like to know why this could indeed fix the issue at hand.

 

People who dislike not having everything gain nothing with this addition.  They still will not have everything.

People who want all possible mastery gain nothing with this addition.  Any new weapon gives new mastery but they still lack the mastery given by the exclusives.

People who are anti-exclusive are obviously not appeased, no explanation needed.

 

I do respect that you are wanting this for the good of all.  However it doesn't, in true practice, benefit anyone realistically.

 what they could do is remove the mastery points from the founders gears -excalibutt prime, and put those on these new akimbo weapons, and this would help subside the collectors wanting these weapons, as they probably want it just cause the shiny, so this would appease a minority of them.

 

edit: we do have to mods breathing down our necks right now, so keep it civil. dont get my thread locked by ignorance.

Edited June 10, 2014 by VYR3

[Blatantfool]

Aggh, it depends on just what the exclusivity applies to, and whether or not that includes anything that looks like the items in question. I've asked about this. Hopefully I get a concrete response. It's really up to DE to decide whether this exclusivity applies to only the item or to the item and how it looks. I'll say this. If it's ok to have an Aklato Prime that is pretty much two Latos Prime in each hand, then imo it's ok to have a new weapon that looks just like the Lato Prime but is named differently.

 

 I dunno. I don't think so. Dual Skana Prime would be a Dual Sword - which is a totally different weapon class. But an identical Skana Prime with some different name? That, to me, is cutting it too close.

 

aggh you're already getting heated, its been open for less than five minutes. cool it.

 

We are still going to wait on an official post on this, but until then, we can discuss possible solutions to release these weapons.

 

blatant fool suggested that the release these weapons and for the founders that have them, they get a 50% resource cost reduction on crafting them. I think this is a very good idea

 

 I certainly did. I believe that the Founders guys should get a cool bonus to the hypothetical AkPrimes.

 

 So yeah, they'd pay 50% resources to craft it and honestly I think it'd be sick if they got a neat gold glow (Think elemental FX, only this glow would override the elemental FX. It'd be a skin that any Founder with the appropriate Prime would unlock upon building the AkPrime.)

[Mesyra]

 I dunno. I don't think so. Dual Skana Prime would be a Dual Sword - which is a totally different weapon class. But an identical Skana Prime with some different name? That, to me, is cutting it too close.

 

 

 I certainly did. I believe that the Founders guy should get a cool bonus to the hypothetical AkPrimes.

 

 So yeah, they'd pay 50% resources to craft it and honestly I think it'd be sick if they got a neat gold glow (Think elemental FX, only this glow would override the elemental FX. It'd be a skin that any Founder with the appropriate Prime would unlock upon building the AkPrime.)

still an awesome idea, other founders, how do you feel about this one?

[yuikami]

still an awesome idea, other founders, how do you feel about this one?

I'll only be ok if the dual versions don't use the same meshes as Lato Prime and Skana Prime. The stat of those weapons airn't even that great, to me, the looks of them are what make them exclusive.

[(PSN)Bobtm0]

 what they could do is remove the mastery points from the founders gears -excalibutt prime, and put those on these new akimbo weapons, and this would help subside the collectors wanting these weapons, as they probably want it just cause the shiny, so this would appease a minority of them.

 

edit: we do have to mods breathing down our necks right now, so keep it civil. dont get my thread locked by ignorance.

 

While that sounds fine on paper, it literally entails forcibly subtracting Mastery rank point from every single founder (save for any potential founder who hasn't ranked any of said exclusives).  Granted it's a slim chance there are possibly some founders who would actually be de-ranked by such a thing.  Additonally, it may be awkward from a coding perspective as every individual item gives mastery regardless.  However the last part is purely speculator on my part.

 

So long as the founders themselves hold no qualms with it I can't personally disagree of course.  That's not a call for me to make.  However it still won't appease the "purist" collector crowd as they still won't have access to the single variant.  At the end of the day though appeasing every crowd isn't possible so that's understandable.

 

I'm still fully against this idea mind you.  But I don't hate it or anything of the sort.  I'm doubting that the dual variants suggested would even have stats of any real merit so they'd just be more mastery fodder for me if this were implemented.

[OniDax]

 I dunno. I don't think so. Dual Skana Prime would be a Dual Sword - which is a totally different weapon class. But an identical Skana Prime with some different name? That, to me, is cutting it too close.

 

 

 I certainly did. I believe that the Founders guys should get a cool bonus to the hypothetical AkPrimes.

 

 So yeah, they'd pay 50% resources to craft it and honestly I think it'd be sick if they got a neat gold glow (Think elemental FX, only this glow would override the elemental FX. It'd be a skin that any Founder with the appropriate Prime would unlock upon building the AkPrime.)

 

Dual Skana Prime, I can understand since the Dual Skanas are shorter than the original. But Aklato Prime would literally be two Latos Prime, one in each hand, like the E3 XBone trailer. I just think that if it'd be wrong to have a duplicate Lato Prime or Skana Prime with a different name, then that'd mean that the exclusivity applies to how the weapons look as well. That's why I'm wondering what DE's stance on something like this is.

[Aggh]

I just want them to release all the items back, give founders an option to receive plat as a refund (yes refund in lieu of impending legal argument, and I get that a monetary refund isn't really that practical for DE) or to like get some items of the next prime access free or something, and then open up the door for a buff to these weapons and to dual versions. But unfortunately that's not going to happen. But that'd be my perfect solution.

 

Aggh, it depends on just what the exclusivity applies to, and whether or not that includes anything that looks like the items in question. I've asked about this. Hopefully I get a concrete response. It's really up to DE to decide whether this exclusivity applies to only the item or to the item and how it looks. I'll say this. If it's ok to have an Aklato Prime that is pretty much two Latos Prime in each hand, then imo it's ok to have a new weapon that looks just like the Lato Prime but is named differently.

Where did they promise exclusivity on the design of the weapons? The founders site clearly said that you were getting exclusive items.  As in the three items that were included in the founders program.

 

You want a refund.  Even if you get past the issue of whether or not you actually deserve it, do you seriously think that the exclusives made up that much of the founders packs actual monetary value?  Leave your emotional attachment out of this and look at it from a business perspective.  Was the massively discounted plat worth nothing?

 

 

aggh you're already getting heated, its been open for less than five minutes. cool it.

 

We are still going to wait on an official post on this, but until then, we can discuss possible solutions to release these weapons.

 

blatant fool suggested that the release these weapons and for the founders that have them, they get a 50% resource cost reduction on crafting them. I think this is a very good idea

I'm not getting heated.  I'm just asking the same simple questions and waiting for an honest answer.

 

Any time I've asked whether they paid for Dual Skana prime or AKlato prime as they would have to do with any other dual variant of a weapon, I've been met with attempts to divert the discussion or repitition of arguments I have soundly refuted multiple times.

 

All I've gotten so far are the following statements:

 

-They look the same so the fact that all Dual Weapons in the history of the game have been sold and marketed as a separate product means nothing.

-[insert attempt to try and assert precedent with crafting that DE has never been under any obligation to follow]

-WE PAID MONEY FOR EXCLUSIVES

 

Not once has anyone been willing to admit to how the game actually treats dual variants.  It's irrefutable fact that they are marketed and sold as a different product and as such, Dual Skana and AKlato being a separate product would not be restricted by the exclusivity of founders items. 

 

Just saying that's not how they should be treated because you spent money on a founders pack will not change that.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Aggh

[Yezzik]

I wonder if it's possible for items to share Mastery.

Then we could have, say, a Dex Skana that shared Mastery with the Skana Prime.

[Mesyra]

While that sounds fine on paper, it literally entails forcibly subtracting Mastery rank point from every single founder (save for any potential founder who hasn't ranked any of said exclusives).  Granted it's a slim chance there are possibly some founders who would actually be de-ranked by such a thing.  Additonally, it may be awkward from a coding perspective as every individual item gives mastery regardless.  However the last part is purely speculator on my part.

 

So long as the founders themselves hold no qualms with it I can't personally disagree of course.  That's not a call for me to make.  However it still won't appease the "purist" collector crowd as they still won't have access to the single variant.  At the end of the day though appeasing every crowd isn't possible so that's understandable.

 

I'm still fully against this idea mind you.  But I don't hate it or anything of the sort.  I'm doubting that the dual variants suggested would even have stats of any real merit so they'd just be more mastery fodder for me if this were implemented.

even if it did remove a rank from people, 45-60 waves of the new dark sector defence will max out any weapons you bring, but yes these would still wind up being mastery fodder for pretty much everyone who doesnt feel like putting 6 forma on to sub par weaponry.

 

and thank you for the well constructed post :D