I Would Like To Thank Steve For Throwing Down The Mic On The Mods And Joining The Scott Side Of The Void.

[Llyssa]

Better than him calling it bullS#&$ and not even explaining why.

 

When Devs post in the forums or PM us, it lets us know that we are actual people to them, and not just things to make money off of. Maybe his reasoning for liking the mod system is faulty, and MAYBE the community disliking the current mod system is flawed, but we can't move forward if it's gon be like this.

He did explain it. I explained it. Other people have explained it. There's lots of yelling and "see how popular this is?", and most people agreeing with the idea admit to never having even read it. It's just a wall of text so they assume it must be awesome.

 

I like the mod system. Many people like the mod system. I do not like the proposed alternatives. I've explained the flawed logic. He explained the flawed logic.

 

If all you ever do is yell people down and declare you're right for the sake of you believe you're right, and if you're not even crediting him with ACTUALLY EXPLAINING IT, it's rather obvious why it'd be a total waste of his time to explain it on the forums. It's a bad idea, and you've been told it's a bad idea, and pretending it's not a bad idea or mudslinging at people doesn't improve the quality of the idea.

 

You can't even acknowledge he explained it on the video, but you pretend you'd do anything other than the typical yelling people down if he put it all in text? What a joke.

 

The demand in and of itself isn't an attempt to "move forward" anyway. It's an attempt to move simultaneously sideways and backwards.

 

If the devs actually sitting there and discussing what you post on the forums on a live interview show does NOT show that they take you as more than just money, why would a forum post(that could be written by anyone logged into an account) show it?

 

Get real.

[Phatose]

He did explain it.  Said something real important - real important - shortly after the "there's a lot of bullS#&$ in there".

 

"I think that's laughable to say that we'd have a game about progression where the things you acquire through progression have no bearing on the outcome.  It's ridiculous.  And to say that the mod system nullifies all skill in the game?  Are you kidding me?  It's ridiculous, and since the 70s role playing games existed, obviously there's an intersection between the value of the objects you acquire and your ability to use them in the right situations.  And the variety in the builds that you can get in warframe tell me that there's skill not only at the play level, but at the design of your build level."

 

A whole bunch of important stuff in there.  The one that stands out to me is "a game about progression" - because, really that philosophy does explain a lot of why things are the way they are in warframe.

 

It also tells me that attempting to change that fundamental nature of warframe being about progression isn't going to happen.  And I'm AOK with that.  Warframe being about progression is what's kept me playing.  But we might be able to convince him to that we're not really getting much of the "in the right situation" part of the using those objects.  Cause for a lot of what we get....well, every situation is the right situation. 

Edited July 6, 2014 by Phatose

[KvotheTheArcane1]

It's ridiculous.  And to say that the mod system nullifies all skill in the game?  Are you kidding me?  It's ridiculous, and since the 70s role playing games existed, obviously there's an intersection between the value of the objects you acquire and your ability to use them in the right situations.  And the variety in the builds that you can get in warframe tell me that there's skill not only at the play level, but at the design of your build level."

But that's where Steve is (mostly) wrong. The current modding system doesn't 100% eliminate all skill (if you can't aim, nothing will help you... except maybe the ignis or explosive weapons), but it mostly eliminates skill, probably about 95% of it at least. Because of how the mod system works, how skilled you are counts for very little really (aka, WF has a very very low skill cap). You could be the most skilled player in the world, but without the mods a less skilled player will be more valued in a team, simply because the modless player doesn't deal enough damage to help the team.

 

There is no skill in tossing +damage mods on, and "build variety" only kinda sorta applies to frames, and that's only really noticeable with a few forma assuming you don't want to gimp yourself. For weapons it's stack damage, (+damage, then +crit chance/damage if it's a crit weapon), then elements, then maybe a punch through (hitting more than one enemy = 100% more damage per shot, per enemy) or ammo mutation for sustainability. There are exceptions, of course  (i.e. bows, or ogris), but those are really very few.

 

And as for 70s RPGs (i.e. D&D) equipment/items you obtained required more skill to use because you had to use them at the right time, assuming they had an ability to be used. It doesn't work like that in WF. My serration is always active, I don't need to think about using it, I don't need timing, or skill to use it. I just need to be able to click and drag the mod onto the weapon.

 

But I think if Steve thought about what he said, and hadn't responded in anger, I think he might have realized that he doesn't need to sue the whole system, but could take an idea or two away from it (i.e., making dedicated slots for different mods (i.e. offense, utility, defense, etc))

Edited July 6, 2014 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Taranis49]

I can not agree with this enough. Players whine the moment they run into a challenge that they could solve easily by changing one simple mod but refusing to do so.

 

If a challenge can't be dealt with or avoided primarily via player skill, it's anything but; e.g. enemies like Mag Eximi or Mutalist Ospreys camping elevators. Gear checks aren't challenges, they're the absence of them.

 

It's particularly notable in the case of Mutalist Ospreys, since they lock out an entire playstyle that the developers themselves have touted (hint, involves U13's original name, precludes shooting and requires getting close).

 

I think your missing the point here, mods eliminate the need for skill. Skill is not being able to move a mouse and press a button. That's... I dunno, a sign of being alive? Skill is more complicated than that. Skill might be best described as fighting a dark souls boss and not getting hit once.

 

This. You have to hit buttons and move the mouse and click stuff in things like Telltale's "The Walking Dead" and even then there's something of a debate as to whether it even qualifies as an actual game or interactive movie. Those activities alone don't exactly imply much of a skill ceiling.

 

As noted, even in (in)famously challenging/difficult games like the Souls' series which punish the player hard for playing sloppy or making mistakes, no bonfire/leveling and naked runs are a thing. It's entirely possible to get through the entire game with starting equipment.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Taranis49

[Mak_Gohae]

But that's where Steve is (mostly) wrong. The current modding system doesn't 100% eliminate all skill (if you can't aim, nothing will help you... except maybe the ignis or explosive weapons), but it mostly eliminates skill, probably about 95% of it at least. Because of how the mod system works, how skilled you are counts for very little really (aka, WF has a very very low skill cap). You could be the most skilled player in the world, but without the mods a less skilled player will be more valued in a team, simply because the modless player doesn't deal enough damage to help the team.

 

There is no skill in tossing +damage mods on, and "build variety" only kinda sorta applies to frames, and that's only really noticeable with a few forma assuming you don't want to gimp yourself. For weapons it's stack damage, (+damage, then +crit chance/damage if it's a crit weapon), then elements, then maybe a punch through (hitting more than one enemy = 100% more damage per shot, per enemy) or ammo mutation for sustainability. There are exceptions, of course  (i.e. bows, or ogris), but those are really very few.

 

And as for 70s RPGs (i.e. D&D) equipment/items you obtained required more skill to use because you had to use them at the right time, assuming they had an ability to be used. It doesn't work like that in WF. My serration is always active, I don't need to think about using it, I don't need timing, or skill to use it. I just need to be able to click and drag the mod onto the weapon.

 

But I think if Steve thought about what he said, and hadn't responded in anger, I think he might have realized that he doesn't need to sue the whole system, but could take an idea or two away from it (i.e., making dedicated slots for different mods (i.e. offense, utility, defense, etc))

 

Given the tremendous blowout from the MOspreys i think there's are whole lot more skill involved.

The most forma weapon wasnt going to do anything if you were not paying attention to them and making sure you had space to maneuver.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Given the tremendous blowout from the MOspreys i think there's are whole lot more skill involved.

The most forma weapon wasnt going to do anything if you were not paying attention to them and making sure you had space to maneuver.

MOsperies are unfair. We've been over this Mak. Just because an enemy can kill you doesn't mean it presents a fair challenge.

[Mak_Gohae]

MOsperies are unfair. We've been over this Mak. Just because an enemy can kill you doesn't mean it presents a fair challenge.

 

My point wasnt about what the enemy can do but what the players were doing to combat the enemy.

From the blowout it seems like they were doing very little, they were acting like the enemy was immune to anything and there was nothing that could be done against them which was not true.

[Nagisawa]

MOsperies are unfair. We've been over this Mak. Just because an enemy can kill you doesn't mean it presents a fair challenge.

Dood, stop.  He won't listen.  He never listens, please stop engaging him in pointless debates because all he wants to do is 'win' the argument.  We all know that the Mutalisk Ospreys are a problem.  They've got wacky hit boxes (still), they release an overpowered gas cloud that's nigh impossible to avoid in small enclosed corridors (which make up most of Warframe's geometry) and frankly are another step towards 'Fake Difficulty'.

[gell]

Dood, stop.  He won't listen.  He never listens, please stop engaging him in pointless debates because all he wants to do is 'win' the argument.  We all know that the Mutalisk Ospreys are a problem.  They've got wacky hit boxes (still), they release an overpowered gas cloud that's nigh impossible to avoid in small enclosed corridors (which make up most of Warframe's geometry) and frankly are another step towards 'Fake Difficulty'.

 

Only problem with those Ospreys is their hitboxes are still a bit wonky. Everything else is wrong. Most of Warframe is small corridors? Do you only play on Corpus tile sets from early 2013? No, most maps are varied shapes. The other thing is actually player skill, which will sound very insulting but it's a simple idea. It's your skill, not the osprey, that is killing you. An osprey is dumb. All it does it wind up and fly toward you. Solution: lead the osprey. When it's about to take off, make sure it flies in a direction that doesn't cover everything. In a tiny Closed Beta Corpus hallway, you can still do this. Make osprey fly perpendicular to the length of the hallway. Problem solved. Oh wait, don't walk through the poison cloud, that also helps you from dying.

 

The game does still have fake difficulty and some band aids, but nothing you posted helped that point.

 

Edit: I miss the days of being able to vote down posts. I'd also vote down GreatZamboni's post if I could. That was bad when he posted it in Nov 2013 and it still is. We can see it has a lot of upvotes, but if only we could see how many downvotes it would have gotten. Even though Steve apologized in that thread, he was right. The thread is full of hyperbolic opinions stated as facts, followed by high level concepts that solve nothing. People love high level concepts. They are very easy to agree with, especially when different from a system they may not be 100% satisfied with. It provides nothing more than another point of data that someone is not perfectly happy with the game. High level concepts belong in brainstorming sessions only, not as threads "discussing" the revamp of an entire system. Steve doesn't want to be unprofessional, but I don't work for DE. He was right. Some people need to be put in their place and understand their terrible "solutions" are nothing more than high level drivel.

Edited July 6, 2014 by gell

[notlamprey]

People love high level concepts. They are very easy to agree with, especially when different from a system they may not be 100% satisfied with. It provides nothing more than another point of data that someone is not perfectly happy with the game. High level concepts belong in brainstorming sessions only, not as threads "discussing" the revamp of an entire system.

[Zaresin]

I don't, Steve was probably just mad that he was told there is no skill in WF, it's all about the mods. If he actually sat down and read the thread, I think he'd change his mind.

 

Or maybe he did. That's worse imo.

I have to agree, once you get past the mandatory mods how can you call using the last 3 mod slots "skill" in any way? It is a brain dead system that really offers no depth as majority of your mods are a predetermined mod to go in that slot (serration, split chamber, heavy caliber (even works great on bows) and elemental combo).

Either stick with the go to elemental combo (corrosive) or switch it out for each faction....no real depth or skill required outside of your ability to read and comprehend third grade english if using an english client. So yeah the mod system does not create a diversified and immersive system outside of the warframe mods as most frames can be customized for different things. When it comes to weapons, they take absolutely no skill whatsoever.

[Zaresin]

My point wasnt about what the enemy can do but what the players were doing to combat the enemy.

From the blowout it seems like they were doing very little, they were acting like the enemy was immune to anything and there was nothing that could be done against them which was not true.

They were bugged, with that mind set players are just lacking skill to kill any kind of osprey when going melee only if I am reading your comments correctly. And ospreys are known bugged when above your head as you cant hit them except in exceptional circumstances when in melee mode. Edited July 6, 2014 by Zaresin

[Xylia]

Given the tremendous blowout from the MOspreys i think there's are whole lot more skill involved.

The most forma weapon wasnt going to do anything if you were not paying attention to them and making sure you had space to maneuver.

 

Enemies that drop you in 2 seconds isn't really counted as "Skill", to be honest, especially when (at first), you couldn't even SEE the damn things or their clouds.

 

They eventually fixed that, but the player hate for those things was already pretty well set in by that point.

 

Sometimes gas clouds get dropped in very bad places where you really get boxed in and there's nothing you could have done about it. Sometimes you'll get something ridiculously cheap like three ancients will bum-rush you and you can't kill all 3 of them before one of them slaps you and knocks you back into the gas cloud which kills you instantly. And of course, the knockdown slap is almost impossible to dodge, and blocking it..... yes, sends you backwards. Right into the gas cloud. Which still kills you.

 

The reason people hate the MOspreys is because there's not really any counter to the horrendously overpowered damage they do. Resist Mods? Pfft, if they do enough damage to kill you in 2 seconds flat, the mod makes it so you die in 4 seconds instead. Woo. Big change there, eh?

 

They're just cheap. Nothing else needs to be said about that. There's a difference between something requiring skill and something just being cheap.

[5Billion]

He did explain it.  Said something real important - real important - shortly after the "there's a lot of bullS#&$ in there".

 

"I think that's laughable to say that we'd have a game about progression where the things you acquire through progression have no bearing on the outcome.  It's ridiculous.  And to say that the mod system nullifies all skill in the game?  Are you kidding me?  It's ridiculous, and since the 70s role playing games existed, obviously there's an intersection between the value of the objects you acquire and your ability to use them in the right situations.  And the variety in the builds that you can get in warframe tell me that there's skill not only at the play level, but at the design of your build level."

 

A whole bunch of important stuff in there.  The one that stands out to me is "a game about progression" - because, really that philosophy does explain a lot of why things are the way they are in warframe.

 

It also tells me that attempting to change that fundamental nature of warframe being about progression isn't going to happen.  And I'm AOK with that.  Warframe being about progression is what's kept me playing.  But we might be able to convince him to that we're not really getting much of the "in the right situation" part of the using those objects.  Cause for a lot of what we get....well, every situation is the right situation. 

Can someone please explain to me the "progression" system in Warframe? Correct me if I'm wrong but the only type of progression is the Mastery Rank system. Otherwise..

 

Say I make a new WF account.

I can trade over my maxed mods and platinum over from my main to my new account.

Said new account has Maxed Redirect, Serration, Dual Stat Mods, and Platinum.

Said new account now has TOP-TIER MODS, WHICH MEANS ANY ENEMY HE RUNS INTO IS ALREADY DEAD.

 

I'm sorry (not sorry), but if you guys honestly think picking up a Mod and leveling it using other mods that you've picked up is a progression system, then you're sorely mistaken. And that's the problem, that people can NOW just stay on planets like Earth, Mars, or Jupiter and essentially max their essential mods like Serration or Hornet Strike. S#&$, the only incentive to go to other planets are the warframes. 

When I started playing this game in February, THE FIRST BOSS I FOUGHT WAS TYL REGOR.

 

AND HE WAS A JOKE WITH A LEVEL 30 MAG!

 

So for Steve say that there's skill in determining how to build our weapons in the current system? Get the F*** outta here. If all builds use the same 8-12 mods, where is the skill in that? I can go to warframe-builder.com and figure out the best build right now. No skill required there. 

The Kvothe guy above me basically said the same thing, but yes Steve did explain himself, but with a lot of fault.

[Yezzik]

As long as there's mods that directly increase damage output, those will always be superior choices to everything else.

That's just what happens when you've got a game where running high-level content requires you to make each bullet worth as much damage as possible.

[Nagisawa]

Only problem with those Ospreys is their hitboxes are still a bit wonky. Everything else is wrong. Most of Warframe is small corridors? Do you only play on Corpus tile sets from early 2013? No, most maps are varied shapes. The other thing is actually player skill, which will sound very insulting but it's a simple idea. It's your skill, not the osprey, that is killing you. An osprey is dumb. All it does it wind up and fly toward you. Solution: lead the osprey. When it's about to take off, make sure it flies in a direction that doesn't cover everything. In a tiny Closed Beta Corpus hallway, you can still do this. Make osprey fly perpendicular to the length of the hallway. Problem solved. Oh wait, don't walk through the poison cloud, that also helps you from dying.

Given that the Mutalisks have shown up on Grineer Galleon hallways, Corpus ship rooms, I will debate that the game has a lot of tiny corridors, or maybe, you're right, but the poison cloud is just too bleepin' big period.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Given that the Mutalisks have shown up on Grineer Galleon hallways, Corpus ship rooms, I will debate that the game has a lot of tiny corridors, or maybe, you're right, but the poison cloud is just too bleepin' big period.

That, and if it procs it deals 450% the damage it'd normally do. And it ignores shields.

[Othergrunty]

I can appreciate that he didn't sugarcoat his answer.

 

He's probably had that thread mentioned to him so many times he's sick of hearing about it.

 

He also mentiod that he had talked directly with the creator of the thread, which explains his reaction when the name got mentiod. God knows how many PMs he got from people about that thread.

[Phatose]

Can someone please explain to me the "progression" system in Warframe? Correct me if I'm wrong but the only type of progression is the Mastery Rank system. Otherwise..

 

Say I make a new WF account.

I can trade over my maxed mods and platinum over from my main to my new account.

Said new account has Maxed Redirect, Serration, Dual Stat Mods, and Platinum.

Said new account now has TOP-TIER MODS, WHICH MEANS ANY ENEMY HE RUNS INTO IS ALREADY DEAD.

 

I'm sorry (not sorry), but if you guys honestly think picking up a Mod and leveling it using other mods that you've picked up is a progression system, then you're sorely mistaken. And that's the problem, that people can NOW just stay on planets like Earth, Mars, or Jupiter and essentially max their essential mods like Serration or Hornet Strike. S#&$, the only incentive to go to other planets are the warframes. 

When I started playing this game in February, THE FIRST BOSS I FOUGHT WAS TYL REGOR.

 

AND HE WAS A JOKE WITH A LEVEL 30 MAG!

 

So for Steve say that there's skill in determining how to build our weapons in the current system? Get the F*** outta here. If all builds use the same 8-12 mods, where is the skill in that? I can go to warframe-builder.com and figure out the best build right now. No skill required there. 

The Kvothe guy above me basically said the same thing, but yes Steve did explain himself, but with a lot of fault.

 

Now come on.  Lets not pretend "I got twinked out" means there's no progression.  It's just that someone else did all the work for you.

[Naqel]

He's too busy "inventing" "new" mods to show that he's not "scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of ideas"

 

 

Next in line: 15% frost and 15% status chance per rank.

 

WOW!

SO ORIGINAL!

GENIUS!

MUCH BALANCE!

Edited July 6, 2014 by Naqel

[Mak_Gohae]

They were bugged, with that mind set players are just lacking skill to kill any kind of osprey when going melee only if I am reading your comments correctly. And ospreys are known bugged when above your head as you cant hit them except in exceptional circumstances when in melee mode.

 

How were they bugged? And i didnt say anything about melee.

People were saying small hitboxes and so on but i never felt that because when fighting against the infested i use weapons with spread since they group up and make it very easy to do heavy damage. When i saw one i just aimed up with my Ignis, Embolist, Drakgoon and shot and they were gone.

 

Enemies that drop you in 2 seconds isn't really counted as "Skill", to be honest, especially when (at first), you couldn't even SEE the damn things or their clouds.

 

They eventually fixed that, but the player hate for those things was already pretty well set in by that point.

 

Correct, again, skill is you trying to get to them first. Skill isnt what the enemy does, skill is what you do.

And you couldn't see the clouds margins not that you couldn't see them. They didnt do anything to make the unit more visible.

They are the only flying units for the Infested, how can you not spot the flying thing above everything else?

I think what happens is that people are not used to fighting the Infested with a flying unit so they never looked up.

When i popped in for the first time i dont thinkg i read the notes i just saw they had the update and the first things i noticed was these little flying things carrying a crawler and i was laughing my butt off cause that was cute. Why did i notice them? Cause they appeared out of the ordinary with the standard units.

 

 

Sometimes gas clouds get dropped in very bad places where you really get boxed in and there's nothing you could have done about it. Sometimes you'll get something ridiculously cheap like three ancients will bum-rush you and you can't kill all 3 of them before one of them slaps you and knocks you back into the gas cloud which kills you instantly. And of course, the knockdown slap is almost impossible to dodge, and blocking it..... yes, sends you backwards. Right into the gas cloud. Which still kills you.

 

And it takes skill for you to avoid this situation. THIS is skill. Not that it takes that much of it if you happen to have some energy since, with energy you could use a power to go through the Ancients. Or you could use a melee slam attack to knock them down. You could wallrun past them. There are several ways. If you think this situation is a situation where there is nothing against it you need some imagination, imaginaaaation, imaginaaaaaaaation.

 

And again, by the time the cloud instantly kills you other enemies should be doing the same thing.

 

 

The reason people hate the MOspreys is because there's not really any counter to the horrendously overpowered damage they do. Resist Mods? Pfft, if they do enough damage to kill you in 2 seconds flat, the mod makes it so you die in 4 seconds instead. Woo. Big change there, eh?

 

They're just cheap. Nothing else needs to be said about that. There's a difference between something requiring skill and something just being cheap.

 

Did this vid to this similar claim.

This was done before the DMG nerf.

A rank 2 antitoxin brought down proc damage to 13 per tic and the cloud was doing 27 per tic.

With vitality i could survive several procs.

 

 

The only problem with the MOsprey is that there were groups of people that just didnt fell like equipping themselves for missions on top of not having the skills to take care of them. Like i said, i never really felt the MOspreys because i equip myself and figured out their attack patterns early. The only time i actually died in those Alad V missions was when i was trying to revive some one and i happen to get punched while in the cloud.

 

 

Can someone please explain to me the "progression" system in Warframe? Correct me if I'm wrong but the only type of progression is the Mastery Rank system. Otherwise..

 

Say I make a new WF account.

I can trade over my maxed mods and platinum over from my main to my new account.

Said new account has Maxed Redirect, Serration, Dual Stat Mods, and Platinum.

Said new account now has TOP-TIER MODS, WHICH MEANS ANY ENEMY HE RUNS INTO IS ALREADY DEAD.

 

I'm sorry (not sorry), but if you guys honestly think picking up a Mod and leveling it using other mods that you've picked up is a progression system, then you're sorely mistaken. And that's the problem, that people can NOW just stay on planets like Earth, Mars, or Jupiter and essentially max their essential mods like Serration or Hornet Strike. S#&$, the only incentive to go to other planets are the warframes. 

When I started playing this game in February, THE FIRST BOSS I FOUGHT WAS TYL REGOR.

 

AND HE WAS A JOKE WITH A LEVEL 30 MAG!

 

So for Steve say that there's skill in determining how to build our weapons in the current system? Get the F*** outta here. If all builds use the same 8-12 mods, where is the skill in that? I can go to warframe-builder.com and figure out the best build right now. No skill required there. 

The Kvothe guy above me basically said the same thing, but yes Steve did explain himself, but with a lot of fault.

 

In games with equipment you can always give your new characters better equipment, but this is up to you if you want to make the trip easier. And that doesnt negate the fact that you have to take that trip with your first character. BTW, those max rank mods cant be equip unless you rank up your new frame.

Tyl Reg is a mid 20s boss so, yes, a max rank frame should have an easier time.

 

 

That, and if it procs it deals 450% the damage it'd normally do. And it ignores shields.

 

If you dont stay in the cloud, of course, the proc is going to deal more dmg because it has an 8 second duration.

But from my testing, seen in the vid above, the cloud did more dmg per tic than the proc.

 

The "problem " with the proc is that a new one can be applied on top so it can extend the time of the proc. I guess one way that they could have solved this instead of nerfing dmg was that you cannot apply more than one proc at a time. Which is what happens with enemies, right? That way the only real problem is you trying to figure out how to get out of the clould.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Mak_Gohae

[KvotheTheArcane1]

If you dont stay in the cloud, of course, the proc is going to deal more dmg because it has an 8 second duration.

But from my testing, seen in the vid above, the cloud did more dmg per tic than the proc.

That's the point, a toxin proc does 50% of the base damage, 9 times. (once on initial proc, then once every 8 seconds).

 

And keep in mind unless you build specifically to counter them, you'd be taking 54 damage (roughly) per tick in the cloud, and 27 per proc tick.

 

All from simply getting bad RNG, and not watching 360 degrees at all times, and not reacting to the half second or so they give you as they charge. And that;s the problem, they don't give enough warning, and punish the player for not building to fight just them.

[Mak_Gohae]

That's the point, a toxin proc does 50% of the base damage, 9 times. (once on initial proc, then once every 8 seconds).

 

And keep in mind unless you build specifically to counter them, you'd be taking 54 damage (roughly) per tick in the cloud, and 27 per proc tick.

 

Well, yeah, it does more if you are not build against it but if you are not you should cover that but focusing on them.

 

All from simply getting bad RNG, and not watching 360 degrees at all times, and not reacting to the half second or so they give you as they charge. And that;s the problem, they don't give enough warning, and punish the player for not building to fight just them.

 

Well uh... you should be paying attention when you are fighting. This is a shooter, why are there all these excuses about you what are supposed to be doing anyway being thrown out as reason they should not be in the game? Why are you playing a shooter if you are aware of what enemies are coming when?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Well, yeah, it does more if you are not build against it but if you are not you should cover that but focusing on them.

You missed the point. The point was you had to build specifically against a level 25 enemy that would have one shot you if you hadn't built to counter it.

 

Well uh... you should be paying attention when you are fighting. This is a shooter, why are there all these excuses about you what are supposed to be doing anyway being thrown out as reason they should not be in the game? Why are you playing a shooter if you are aware of what enemies are coming when?

Mak, it is literally impossible to be paying attention to a full 360 degrees and be on the watch for the ospery. Don't act like people are simply closing their eyes and ignoring everything,. They're not, they simply aren't looking in the right direction the split second the ospery decides to charge is all.

[Liminal]

A whole bunch of important stuff in there.  The one that stands out to me is "a game about progression" - because, really that philosophy does explain a lot of why things are the way they are in warframe.

I can accept the game being "all about progression", but I can't really agree with the primary way to progress in a game about progression being randomness.

 

Why am I even playing then? I should roll a die to decide the outcome of the mission or something :P