Shotguns Are So Bad.

[yles9056]

Boar prime, Drakoon and Phage are good.

 

As for Strun, Tigris, Hek and Sobek, I'd say they need some improvement.

 

Not necessarily damage buff, but probably something that makes them stand out or easier to use(especially reload speed buff).

[Calayne]

We just need some new ones is all.

  

This is how the game can get away with leaving really bad weapons in the game. Hardly an adequate solution, my friend, in the same way we shouldn't address the Boltor Prime by adding an even stronger gun so it's no longer top dog.

No. The old ones need to be buffed to match the rifles and secondary weapons before any new shotguns get added.

I second this opinion. All the weapons, ALL, need a little bit of a look at. And by little bit, I mean "extensive balancing". Shotguns and snipers in particular need a change for the better.

[(PSN)Cincinnati-93]

  

This is how the game can get away with leaving really bad weapons in the game. Hardly an adequate solution, my friend, in the same way we shouldn't address the Boltor Prime by adding an even stronger gun so it's no longer top dog.

I second this opinion. All the weapons, ALL, need a little bit of a look at. And by little bit, I mean "extensive balancing". Shotguns and snipers in particular need a change for the better.

I approve of this message.

[WERElektro]

I used to use Strun Wraith as main.

 

The issue is that, in high lvl missions (T4 etc, long term def or surv) the lack of Accuracy is a huge problem.

 

Someone already said it: Shotguns are fine if you're a beginner. For high lvl stuff , they aren't good suitable.

[holdenagincourt]

It's irritating in a sense that the only really great assault rifle in this game is the Boltor prime

 

Lol.

 

And I can't  answer your question if I don't know which shotguns you actually have on console. However, speaking from the perspective of my account, Strun Wraith, Boar Prime, Phage and Drakgoon are very good weapons, Hek is still perfectly fine. I haven't used Sobek since Damage 2.0 but it used to be very strong with a pretty negligible drawback.

 

Shotguns aren't bad, is the answer to your question. But if you consider Boltor Prime to be the only great rifle then this topic says more about your priors with respect to the relative power of weapons than shotguns qua shotguns.

[PlebbyMilliner]

The Drakgoon is great at killing!

 

 

Killing my frame rate with Mirage's Hall of Mirrors. =)

[DalaiLlama]

I don't know about you boys, but I've always been in love with my Tigris.  My Boar Prime has picked up steam only because the thing is hilarious with maxed firing rate.

 

I do agree with a shotgun buff, especially to the Tigris.  A manual reload per shot just screams blast cannon.

[ActualDruzy]

The Tigris is one of my favorite weapons in the game even though it's generally considered one of the worst.  I feel like improving the mods will help most of the shotguns at least a tiny bit, but I also think every weapon in the game needs to be looked at individually while considering weapon balance as a whole.  Hopefully they'll look at the snipers and shotguns soon because you know, variety is the spice of life and we need more variety and choice in terms of power.

[Babellon]

The only even remotely decent shotgun in this game at the moment is the phage, which is more like an alien tentacle gun than a shotgun. Why are these so bad? I've asked numerous rank 16 friends and they've all said the exact same thing. It's irritating in a sense that the only really great assault rifle in this game is the Boltor prime, and so many other weapons are sub par. I think a change from impact damage to puncture damage would help increase the strength and make the weapons much more useful. Shotguns with impact damage are only great against the corpus right now.

 

Thoughts on the state of shotguns? Do we need a shotgun buff?

 

(PLEASE NOTE: weapons aren't the same for both systems, we do not have the Strun Wraith and some others)

why do people think boltor is the only viable weapon? flight time for the round, drops off in flight, in my opinion not very accurate, except at close to mid range and body shots.  Impact damage is good against grineer as well. Puncture damage to me seems to do less, and takes longer to kill. 

My karak is very accurate, does excellent damage, i don't have to spray and pray with it, hitscan means the rounds go where my cursor is. That boltor will tend to miss that mob thats running across the room, I can pick them off with no problem using the karak. 

 

Every shot gun I've used does a fine job killing. The Phage is amusing but it isn't the be all of weapons in that regard. Shotguns aren't meant for long range shots, but at mid to close range its highly effective. 

[BETAOPTICS]

Tell that to my Dragkoon that does 9k damage per shot and kills pretty much anything in one shot. Some of the most powerful weapons I have in my arsenal. Sure, one case only speaks on it's behalf but may of them are quite alright with proper mods. That being said, maybe they are a bit sub bar generally. Certainly the pay-off in range is not properly compensated in close quarters since the kill time is almost the same as with rifles for example.

Edited August 4, 2014 by BETAOPTICS

[EmbedFire]

Shotguns are great for people who don't have end game content. They're meant to be meat grinders and face breakers, and with punch through, you can break groups of enemies with them... But Yes... We need more slashing and piercing shotguns!

This

 

I was walking in my time at the begining with Strun & Rhino

 

Rifles will be stronger that shotguns for many reasons:

- Distance is a HUGE factor in this game, n1 wants to hug any eximus without maxed melee (I guess shotgun is not solution in this case): Rifle > Shotgun

- Headshots can be made even with full-auto rifles when not holding attack button like a madman: Rifle > Shotgun

- Clip, reload in shotguns is generally longer (maybe not so much to discuss about that)

- Shotguns are high-recoil weapons, hit & run with shotgun can be less effective

 

Its hard to say that shotgun is better than rifle, its just nature of that weapon.

You can't compare shotgun in real life to shotguns in Warframe :P

[EmbedFire]

Tell that to my Dragkoon that does 9k damage per shot and kills pretty much anything in one shot. Some of the most powerful weapons I have in my arsenal.

I think my Latron Prime with corrosive build & critic damage > your Dragkoon

 

Its easy to spam headshots with Latron

Edited August 4, 2014 by EmbedFire

[ElHefe]

My opinions on the matter

 

Superb and clear analysis, many thanks ... 1+

 

@ (PS4)Cincinnati-93 ... personally, I would like to see at least a few shotguns to be (upgradeable) "one shot - one kill" wonders

After all, nearly every maxed edged weapon can put dinner on the table in seconds but there is something intrinsically more satisfying with instant red mist 

[TheGuyver]

Needs more pump action shotties imo

[(PSN)Cincinnati-93]

Superb and clear analysis, many thanks ... 1+

 

@ (PS4)Cincinnati-93 ... personally, I would like to see at least a few shotguns to be (upgradeable) "one shot - one kill" wonders

After all, nearly every maxed edged weapon can put dinner on the table in seconds but there is something intrinsically more satisfying with instant red mist 

I agree.

[vergol]

Before Damage 2.0, shotguns really shined against the Infested.  Raw damage output - not damage type - played the main role.  Large spread and high pellet count meant you could one-shot just about every creepy crawly thing that got in your face, including Ancients.  Accuracy at range was irrelevant because the Infested don't really have any ranged units.  Strun Wraith and Dual Broncos ftw.

 

Then Damage 2.0 came out.  Infested became vulnerable to Slash damage (sort of makes sense), but all shotguns, for some bizarre reason, received Impact damage as their mainstay.  Impact is most useful against shielded (Corpus) targets, which typically attack from beyond the shotgun's effective range.  What's worse, once you get through the shields, impact once again becomes rather ineffective against any kind of fleshy or robotic interior.

 

A couple of Slash-based shotguns did come out since Damage 2.0: the Tigris, the Drakgoon, and maybe the Pyrana (if you count secondaries). 

 

The Tigris's two shot trigger and long reload time makes it only effective against two infested units at a time.  The Pyrana's fire rate, clip size, and reload time present a similar problem.  The Drakgoon is now perhaps the most effective shotgun-type weapon due to its high damage and charge-based punch-through, though its projectiles do have a noticeable travel time, thus begging the question if it can even be considered a proper shotgun.

 

One other honorable mention is the Brakk.  Although Slash damage isn't its specialty, there's enough of it for single-shot takedowns of most common infested units.  It scales well with with higher-end content too.  It's been my Bronco-replacement after Damage 2.0.

 

Bottom line: the weapon type that was ideal for close-range [infested] combat was made near useless by the Damage 2.0 overhaul, and hasn't recovered since.

Edited August 4, 2014 by vergol

[Numerikuu]

Sure, if you don't mod some of them right they are bad.

 

<3 Hek.

[(PSN)Cincinnati-93]

Before Damage 2.0, shotguns really shined against the Infested.  Raw damage output - not damage type - played the main role.  Large spread and high pellet count meant you could one-shot just about every creepy crawly thing that got in your face, including Ancients.  Accuracy at range was irrelevant because the Infested don't really have any ranged units.  Strun Wraith and Dual Broncos ftw.

 

Then Damage 2.0 came out.  Infested became vulnerable to Slash damage (sort of makes sense), but all shotguns, for some bizarre reason, received Impact damage as their mainstay.  Impact is most useful against shielded (Corpus) targets, which typically attack from beyond the shotgun's effective range.  What's worse, once you get through the shields, impact once again becomes rather ineffective against any kind of fleshy or robotic interior.

 

A couple of Slash-based shotguns did come out since Damage 2.0: the Tigris, the Drakgoon, and maybe the Pyrana (if you count secondaries). 

 

The Tigris's two shot trigger and long reload time makes it only effective against two infested units at a time.  The Pyrana's fire rate, clip size, and reload time present a similar problem.  The Drakgoon is now perhaps the most effective shotgun-type weapon due to its high damage and charge-based punch-through, though its projectiles do have a noticeable travel time, thus begging the question if it can even be considered a proper shotgun.

 

One other honorable mention is the Brakk.  Although Slash damage isn't its specialty, there's enough of it for single-shot takedowns of most common infested units.  It scales well with with higher-end content too.  It's been my Bronco-replacement after Damage 2.0.

 

Bottom line: the weapon type that was ideal for close-range [infested] combat was made near useless by the Damage 2.0 overhaul, and hasn't recovered since.

Said like an expert.

[Chub_N_Tuck]

i hate this argument over what's good and bad. All weapons feature different entertainment and each require different play style.

 

Shotguns aren't bad. Maybe you're using them wrong.

 

Why has this argument over the game's weapons become what's good and bad in terms of killing more enemies with less rounds and faster?

 

Why can't people just play better themselves, other than complaining how bad a weapon is?

Edited August 4, 2014 by GaiaNyix

[jennibear]

i hate this argument over what's good and bad. All weapons feature different entertainment and each require different play style.

 

Shotguns aren't bad. Maybe you're using them wrong.

 

Why has this argument over the game's weapons become what's good and bad in terms of killing more enemies with less rounds and faster?

 

Why can't people just play better themselves, other than complaining how bad a weapon is?

exactly, I used the strun for a LONG time and it rocked, the mods for shotgun are way stronger than rifles mods. Well, here I go to level all my shotguns and watch more people will start using them once they see how great it can be... it ALWAYS happens... 

 

just like the ignus, people were S#&amp;&#036;ting on it, and i showed them in T4 that i can melt everything and now i see people actually using it... 

[JerZeyCJ]

I HAVENT SEEN a shotgun in forever I don't see anybody using them but we do need new ones good new ones why would they even invent the tigris?

I'm personally holding out hope for a Tenno based Pump Action Shotgun(something that I'd imagine would look like a cross between a Latron and a Tigris).

 

speaking of, just finally made a picture for my weapon concept of a pump shotty

Edited August 4, 2014 by JerZeyCJ

[Calayne]

I do hope most of the love for shotguns here aren't based on nostalgia value, or the love for their old guns.

 

I, myself, am a big fan of the Burston and use it and any sort of burst weapon as my meat-and-potatoes of the arsenal. But that doesn't really mean it's a particularly excellent weapon, either, sad to say, though they are by far my favourite. The point of this being: While I appreciate that people do love unique guns, not just based on their DPS (Which is, let's face it, the "Victoria's Secret" of Warframe), that doesn't mean the guns themselves don't need a rework.

 

The Drakgoon, the Phage and the Boar Prime are prime examples where the exception (Not being like a regular shotgun) is better than the rule (Ala shotguns). Case in point: The Drakgoon is a charged flak cannon with punch-through, and does massive damage to crowds. The Phage is a trigger-held weapon that has no projectiles, literally. The Boar Prime is the AA12 of our shotguns, and is respectable in its fire-rate as well as its magazine size. 

 

There's a key feature to why the three above are exemplary, over, say, the Tigris, which is a two-shot shottie with rather hideous reload times without mods, and no practical way of adding a larger magazine (Despite its rather awesome damage): They have some way of engaging massive amounts of enemies, either by punch-through or extreme fire-rates, and they deal massive damage at (theoretically) close range. 

 

Most of our other shotties fall short of those values, sadly, and as Sixty5 points out, the damage fall-off isn't doing the guns any favours. 

 

 

i hate this argument over what's good and bad. All weapons feature different entertainment and each require different play style.

 

Shotguns aren't bad. Maybe you're using them wrong.

 

Why has this argument over the game's weapons become what's good and bad in terms of killing more enemies with less rounds and faster?

 

Why can't people just play better themselves, other than complaining how bad a weapon is?

 

While I can see why you're frustrated, perhaps you'd like to consider trying a few shotguns out yourself? They're not all that abysmally bad, but I will say, they are extremely mediocre for the most part. Weapons are supposed to be killing things, so naturally, our conversation will deviate to that some time or the other. 

 

Perhaps we should all cry for nerfs to the Boltor Prime, so that our fellow Tenno can "Play better themselves", only to inevitably "Complain how bad a weapon is". 

 

"The Boltor Prime is a projectile weapon! It should deal more damage than hit-scan weapons!"

 

Well said.

 

Shotguns are close-range weapons with hideous fall-off damage at range, and are absolutely out-classed in any range regardless, save for very few exceptions. 

 

Allow me to point out that I've never seen a good portion, or even a half-decent smattering of players using either the Sobek, Tigris, Strun, Hek, and so on. I feel most people who use these do so out of sentimental value more than efficiency (Just like myself), because, let's face it, with the same mods, the Boar Prime will be a complete and total beast, while other shotties will be subpar compared to their contemporaries. 

 

 

For the record, I loved the Strun when I first started the game, and it has changed a LOT after damage fall-off was introduced SPECIFICALLY to nerf the Hek, and not because of anything else. This is cutting off the nose to spite your face. With Sixty5's argument, I believe the case has already been made as to why the damage fall-off is, I feel, rather bad reasoning. I certainly support his idea. 

[AbaliskInfinite]

Take this and go.

------ ------ ------- ------ ------ ------- -------- ------ -------- --------- ---------- --------- 

shoot the upvote thingy?

[Chub_N_Tuck]

While I can see why you're frustrated, perhaps you'd like to consider trying a few shotguns out yourself? They're not all that abysmally bad, but I will say, they are extremely mediocre for the most part. Weapons are supposed to be killing things, so naturally, our conversation will deviate to that some time or the other. 

Shotguns in general are ok, but we cannot think all shotguns are meant for any level of play. They can be mediocre for the most part because there are shotguns to choose from. We can say the same for rifles. While the logic of killing enemies with weapons makes sense, we also need to realize in this game where in infinite duration missions, enemies scale harder. It is meant to be harder with those lower dps shotguns. That's why we have more shotguns to choose from.

[Sixty5]

I'd like to add that personally, I love the Tigris, I have polarised the thing 6 times, and it does alright in most situations. Though I think that is more to do with the fact that it is me using it than the actual weapon. Hell a maxed out Tigris does slightly less damage per shot than an unforma-d Paris Prime.

 

Shotguns do need some love, but only for later on. Early on they are pretty well balanced