Seriously It's Time To Do Something About Disruptor Ancients.

[Monolake]

Ok. That is what they are there to do. It is your job to either avoid it, kill them first, or if you don'tlike those....die unfortunately.  

Except you cant do either of that with the current design.

 

More details in another thread https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/268555-better-dumb-enemies-infested-analysis-u14/page-4

[S3EK3R]

Ok. That is what they are there to do. It is your job to either avoid it, kill them first, or if you don'tlike those....die unfortunately.  

Wave 20. 10 Disturbers and 5 Toxic ancients along with 2 Parasite Eximi. Now go and kill all of them in 3 seconds. You can't.

[Kestral9999]

+ Disruptors remove 25 energy, not ALL energy.

I've been thinking they could remove a certain percentage of your energy, maybe 50% of your current energy pool.

 

And since that would be a big nerf to their overall power, maybe they could have a new feature where they are made more resilient and powerful depending on how much energy they absorb from players.

 

Things that can remove all of your energy just shouldn't exist, it turns Infested missions into a massive game of "The Floor Is Lava".

Edited August 13, 2014 by Kestral9999

[bones7056]

So you want to make the game even easier?

Your right, lets just have a hardcore game because master race right? no fun allowed. fun = weakness. you dont like something because it makes the game harder? WEAKNESS.

 

supposed fixes

 

useing 1 fusion core no matter the rank is 1 plat each, unless rare then 3

all weapons damage will be cut in half and all enemy health doubled. simple as that

no log in bonuses, log in penalties, until you get to 7 days in a row you will be finned 1 plat a day, and at 7 you will just recieve a message saying "keep obeying tenno" 

 

 

should be a good start

[AdFinitum]

Disruptors are a melee show stopper. Thats bad by design.

 

They shouldnt remove any energy at all - they are disruptors. They should disrupt usage of skillls. Leechers drain our energy.

Edited August 13, 2014 by AdFinitum

[Tr1ples1xer]

Dark Souls is a completely inaccurate and inappropriate comparison. That is a slow, methodical game with an emphasis on observation and preparation, i.e. PREDICTIVE DECISIONS. Dark Souls loves to smash you in the face for not peeking around corners, exploring your environment, or diving in to situations (or failing to run away from situations) that are too much for your current capabilities. Dark Souls plays like you're fighting through molasses to reinforce the idea that you should be seeing and thinking more than twitching.

 

Warframe is fast. Very fast. If you play Warframe like Dark Souls, then you won't get grappled from the front by an ancient the instant you round the corner, instead you'll get grappled from behind because enemies respawn and love to surround you.  The two games are basically polar opposites in style.

 

It's not a question of making the game easier, it's letting us as the player make a REACTIVE DECISION that can improve our situation. If you're going to have realistically unavoidable attacks,  then they can't be very punishing.

YESS finally, I hate it when people talk about Dark SOuls on these forums, completely different game, I don't wanna play a giant toe nail clipper simulator, I wanna go fast and kill 1000's baddies and wreck havok, I'd take fun over challenge any day of the week.

 

Imo the nerf everything and we need more challenge crowd is ruining this game and I'm MR 16 so not all veterans want a stupid hardcore difficulty, seriously who in the hell enjoys nightmare mode anyways, this is a casual game made to have fun and relax not get angry and die every 2 minutes.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Tr1ples1xer

[Incrodon]

I havent tested it yet but, the knock down resistant mods like sure footed resist anything that knocks you onto your feet, even scropion bolts, I havent tried with the ancients but im sure it will work the same.

[Kestral9999]

Your right, lets just have a hardcore game because master race right? no fun allowed. fun = weakness. you dont like something because it makes the game harder? WEAKNESS.

 

supposed fixes

 

useing 1 fusion core no matter the rank is 1 plat each, unless rare then 3

all weapons damage will be cut in half and all enemy health doubled. simple as that

no log in bonuses, log in penalties, until you get to 7 days in a row you will be finned 1 plat a day, and at 7 you will just recieve a message saying "keep obeying tenno" 

 

 

should be a good start

Oh, you forgot to mention you can only use starting frames. And you can only have one power slotted at a time since they start out with only 1 = polarity. Better start farming Forma like a madman.

 

Master race amiriteguise?

Edited August 13, 2014 by Kestral9999

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

who in the hell enjoys nightmare mode anyways

I do.

[Vastaren]

Dodge. Super fair. Once again you are empowered! Now go forth and spread the news. 

... errors which are never statistically 100% avoidable? That's what the OP is describing.

 

It's easy to say 'prioritise targets!' [or, as the context may imply, 'dodge!'] as though it can be applied in all situations, and yaknow, maybe it can for a portion of the playerbase who solely play at long-range [or] have absolutely perfect situational awareness. However, we're missing the point in favor of implicitly pointing to situational examples. It's not that the enemies are hard to spot, or that they can't be taken down before they drain your energy. It's the fact that the energy drain itself (coupled with the grapple knockdown) limits player options and makes for a frustrating rather than genuinely challenging few seconds where the player is incapable of doing anything at all to counter a mistake or bad luck.

That, or I could just leave this here...

[Monolake]

Disruptors are a melee show stopper. Thats bad by design.

 

They should disrupt usage of skillls.

This is probably the best solution. But Im strongly against leachers because they are uncounterable if they come in a group with others or simply blocked by a wall.

 

I havent tested it yet but, the knock down resistant mods like sure footed resist anything that knocks you onto your feet, even scropion bolts, I havent tried with the ancients but im sure it will work the same.

It works, 2 mod slots for 80% chance to block. Oh and Surefooted is one of the rarest mods, it never dropped from the thousands Bombards I have killed.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Monolake

[sambarpowder]

So you want to make the game even easier?

This is the kind of attitude I hate.

 

Ancient mechanics as they are now aren't difficult. They're cheesy and annoying. Why do you think no one complains about grineer and corpus? I can assure you that at level 30-40, grineer and corpus levels are far harder than infestation ones. People hate infested missions because they're annoying, not hard.

 

Getting chain cc'ed and drained and living through it isn't a measure of your skill, it's a simple number check. Do you have enough damage and health to live through it till you get your energy back? Great. Now the infested are just boring to play against because you spend half your time getting dragged about by giant walking ****s.

 

I fail to see how people relish that kind of "difficulty". Really, I do.

[Keiga150]

Energy drain should be the least of your worries anyway, you lose your energy? Team Energy Restores.  (But i can't be bothered using such a thing.) Oh well.

 

The grapple is a death sentence when you get into higher waves, time, or mission difficulty. If you get dragged you have a high chance of death by all the infested around before you can even get up or get your energy drained.

 

So nay to everything except the "Cutting the Line."

[PeanutMonster]

Their only problem is the huge @$$ damage resistance to anything else than corrosive, fire or slash.

Edited August 13, 2014 by PeanutMonster

[Zsar]

Not a bug its intended, they still do full-disruption that lasts for 5 seconds with screen scramble and all that, in addition their attacks drain some energy.

 

From U14 changelog:

• Disruptor Ancients - Aura that reduces radial and power damage taken by nearby allies. Attack damage energy, rather than completely drain it. Attacks of nearby allies have the same effect.

Emphasis mine.

Explicitely states that the old behaviour although retained should have been replaced.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Zsar

[Ninjamander]

This is Warframe we are playing! Not Starfox! Keep those <barrel roll> for that game please! If a room is fill with disruptor, your just gonna roll all over the freaking place and let the cryopod explode? Be punish because you take the time to aim to kill something, defending the cryopod, ect? I also notice the one complaining about the game difficulty and claim this is not a problem are high level player (most of them). You reach that level the time Warframe was fair and easy, now imagine a new player and how much trouble he will have to reach the level your currently are! Someone mention to kill them before they reach you, that's stupid! Is easy to do if you are using op weapon with a strong corrosive damage, weapon and mod that most newcomer don't have.

 

I'm happy DE listen to the player..problem is they may listen too much to them. The one giving feedback are usually veteran of this game because of they love for Warframe, the casual player are forgotten.since most of them don't provide feedback. Many of my friend quit warframe because of the difficulty level or unfairness, change that are made to keep the hardcore player happy?

 

Just my 5cent, I could be wrong, is just my opinion after all.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Ninjamander

[Amazerath]

So you want to make the game even easier?

 

Nobody wants an easier game because the game is already either too easy or too hard depending on the situation. Smart ideas ask for neither of those things. They simply ask for balance so that the game will offer the right amount of both.

[izzatuw]

Ok. That is what they are there to do. It is your job to either avoid it, kill them first, or if you don'tlike those....die unfortunately.

Try Eris, I assure this will happen because the first thing Ancients fo when they actually come in the entrance is pull you and disrupt you, and ancients come in every corner so tell me how it's possible to dodge all of them?

[Calayne]

I'm with Momaw on this one.

 

 

So you want to make the game even easier?

 

And next time someone goes into any topic that suggests a change to what is possibly a super broken mechanic and says this, without even a shred of shame, without even a modicum of decency to explain the statement and substantiate it with evidence, reasoning and half-baked written English, I am going to tell them this:

 

So you want to die in one hit?

 

So you want to get knocked down once and never get up?

 

So you want to have all your ability to react and survive taken away because you weren't smart enough to dodge cause you're either new or surrounded by enemies from all corners and you were just shot in the back from seventeen meters away by a mob whose sound is shared between four or five types with a hook that pierces your flesh and drags you screaming into its gaping maw, only for it to peer into your soul, debilitate your will and quietly say "No."?

 

Well, maybe you're too hardcore for us. 

 

This is hypothetical and intentionally exaggerated. I'm not entirely sorry that I have said this, but I have to admit, I am irked by these smart-aleck one-liners to a legitimate problem. The patch notes have read that Disruptors are not supposed to take all your energy, and they said that Infested have the ability to drag you, but obviously, being 17 meters away, this is probably unintentional.

 

I will say it now: This suggested change by no means makes the game any easier; It only makes the game less frustrating. Difficulty is not from this one mob which makes you pull your hair out, because you were too busy trying to deal with the other two dozen infested clambering up your Tenno butt-cheeks. No, not at all: Difficulty is the Healers giving damage reduction to surrounding mobs, Toxic Ancients giving poison damage to surrounding mobs, and Disruptors decreasing your skill damage. That's pretty good design, and I love the concept, really. (Of course, right now, the aura stacks, so it's pretty much nigh-unbeatable if you have five or six Healers in a group. This is a bug, I hope.)

 

In a game like Warframe, where dodging forever is quite impossible given the sheer amount of enemies, the only choice we have should be reactionary ones. That is to say, we should be allowed to counter moves that would otherwise completely blow our brains all over the floor, because we simply cannot dodge them forever. 

 

Allow me to give you an example: Bastion. 

 

Excellent game. Challenging, but not overly difficult, and would certainly give you a run for your money if you're careless.

 

The game also surrounds you with enemies. However, unlike Warframe, all enemies telegraph their attacks, and you can see behind your character from a bird's eye view.

 

There are always ways to counter each enemy that doesn't always involve bashing their heads out, and this means is always within your grasp, unlike Warframe, where you have to be in melee-mode to have these means, or some other RNG means of blocking (Reflex guard, imma lookin' at'cha).

 

In addition, there are no enemies which will grab you and rob player liberty: You always have something you can do, as a true hero should. Warframe lacks in this department, and it is very frustrating.

 

Furthermore, while Bastion has special attacks as well, there are no mobs which take away your ability to use these for any extended period of time, though admittedly, Warframe is slightly different in this regard as we can recover our energy passively, and orbs are quite common. But this is not to be taken for granted, because it is not innate. That is to say, not everyone will have it, because it is not built into our Warframes.

 

So, basically, instead of rewarding us for our prudence of not spamming our ultimate abilities, we are punished for specifically not doing such a thing; After all, if all our energy is going to be wasted anyways, we may as well use all of it in the destruction of our enemies, right? Highly counter-productive, and anti-challenge, considering our ultimates always make the game easier.

 

Also, what the guys on top said about melee being totally buggered over. Totally agree with them. This applies to Toxic Ancients, too. 

[HoopleDoople]

My problem with the "lrn2dodge" and "get gud" crowd is that they misunderstand the nature of Warframe's combat. It's not single combat where you can clearly see choreographed attacks and react accordingly or suffer devastating consequences. There's too much going on for any one player to be able to see and react appropriately to every enemy. Barring coordinated team play getting pulled and subsequently disrupted is a question of when not if. As it is unfair to expect every player to find intelligent and cooperative friends, we have to account for public games in the game design.

 

Some suggestions I've seen and liked on how to create a challenging yet fair play experience:

 

1) Reduce the quantity of Ancients - it seems like we have the same Ancient density as before they were buffed and eximus enemies added. Before it took brute force of numbers to create difficulty, now it only ensures players have no chance to see and react to them all.

 

2) Temper the punishment for failure - complete loss of energy (to say nothing of the immobilization and dragging) is extremely harsh and otherwise out of place in Warframe. It would be much more reasonable to lose a set amount of energy or have energy halved. Similarly Toxics' poison needs to deal a fair amount of damage.

 

3) Provide a chance for recovery - such as a brief window where the player can sever the line. This would provide tiered punishment - getting dragged by an ancient and then sever the line would waste time and leave you briefly open to attack; getting dragged AND failing to sever would additionally result in energy loss (in the case of Disruptors).

 

If the Ancients/Infested prove to be too easy after these changes I would focus more on giving them additional defensive properties and/or skills to compensate.

Edited August 13, 2014 by HoopleDoople

[Calayne]

My problem with the "lrn2dodge" and "get gud" crowd is that they misunderstand the nature of Warframe's combat. It's not single combat where you can clearly see choreographed attacks and react accordingly or suffer devastating consequences. There's too much going on for any one player to be able to see and react appropriately to every enemy. Barring coordinated team play getting pulled and subsequently disrupted is a question of when not if. As it is unfair to expect every player to find intelligent and cooperative friends, we have to account for public games in the game design.

 

Some suggestions I've seen and liked on how to create a challenging yet fair play experience:

 

1) Reduce the quantity of Ancients - it seems like we have the same Ancient density as before they were buffed and eximus enemies added. Before it took brute force of numbers to create difficulty, now it only ensures players have no chance to see and react to them all.

 

2) Temper the punishment for failure - complete loss of energy (to say nothing of the immobilization and dragging) is extremely harsh and otherwise out of place in Warframe. It would be much more reasonable to lose a set amount of energy or have energy halved. Similarly Toxics' poison needs to deal a fair amount of damage.

 

3) Provide a chance for recovery - such as a brief window where the player can sever the line. This would provide tiered punishment - getting dragged by an ancient and then sever the line would waste time and leave you briefly open to attack; getting dragged AND failing to sever would additionally result in energy loss (in the case of Disruptors).

 

If the Ancients/Infested prove to be too easy after these changes I would focus more on giving them additional defensive properties and/or skills to compensate.

 

So well said, it bears being repeated in cyberspace. The above are indeed viable solutions, I feel, to the issue at hand.

[S0ulre4per]

Actually, i dont want them to change. comparing to what WE can do it would be ridiculous

*unsheathes dragon nikana and slices disruptor in half*

yea they are pain in the 4$$ most of the time but they are NOT mutalist ospreys.

no need for nerfs, finaly infested are having decent enemies.

[Calayne]

Actually, i dont want them to change. comparing to what WE can do it would be ridiculous

*unsheathes dragon nikana and slices disruptor in half*

yea they are pain in the 4$$ most of the time but they are NOT mutalist ospreys.

no need for nerfs, finaly infested are having decent enemies.

 

LoL, maybe we'll all be singing a different tune when the Juggernaut comes up and we get dragged, toxic-ed, disrupted and stomped without a break.

 

The mechanic is broken when your player can't do anything against it. They can add more enemies, or tweak them in such a way that makes it challenging but doesn't rob players of their ability to react. More enemies are coming, and they'll provide more of a challenge, as Mutalist Ospreys now do. The answer isn't to make one or two mobs ridiculously frustrating, but to introduce more mobs so we have more formidable foes to fight against. More varied enemy tactics from which we have to escape from. 

 

Key word being "Escape", suggesting the ability to do so, with some skill, rather than being rail-road-driven into the abyss because we couldn't see a shot come from behind.

[S0ulre4per]

LoL, maybe we'll all be singing a different tune when the Juggernaut comes up and we get dragged, toxic-ed, disrupted and stomped without a break.

 

The mechanic is broken when your player can't do anything against it. They can add more enemies, or tweak them in such a way that makes it challenging but doesn't rob players of their ability to react. More enemies are coming, and they'll provide more of a challenge, as Mutalist Ospreys now do. The answer isn't to make one or two mobs ridiculously frustrating, but to introduce more mobs so we have more formidable foes to fight against. More varied enemy tactics from which we have to escape from. 

 

Key word being "Escape", suggesting the ability to do so, with some skill, rather than being rail-road-driven into the abyss because we couldn't see a shot come from behind.

What if we could shoot them while they are draging us? that would work out pretty good too. ok....i have to agree to something.....we need to escape smehow from those grapples.

[arsyadpower]

rare mod that make you cannot grapple

this would sell for 1000 plat!!