Ammo Nerf Protest

[Letter13]

We cannot compare the numbers directly, even if we would know them. We would have to understand how effective the shots are in these games. Great example is Borderlands 1st vs 2nd, the number of rocket rounds has been greatly reduced but the kick has been buffed to outbalance the reduction. So in BL1 you were using it just like any other wep, nothing too special, in BL2 you are using it for huge effect.

We're not talking about rocket kick or power. The Penta, Ogris and other launchers are plenty powerful enough as is. Hell, when modded right the Angstrum fires 21 rockets AT ONCE. 

 

Stop trying to divert attention away from the question I'm posing: How much ammo do the other Sci-Fi games give you with rockets/grenades "that we simply cannot discuss nor be limited by the sizes of ammo used in similar devices of today"?

 

Especially with games like Destiny where you can materialize an entire hoverbike out of thin air yet you can't hold more than 5 or so rockets.

[CalledandChosen]

Or Destiny?  I don't play it, I play Warframe, because it's more fun - until you nerf all the fun out. Come on, it's non PvP, it's PVE for Petes sake.

 

Or Unreal Tournament? don't play

 

Or Planetside/Planetside 2? don't play

 

Or Mass Effect (2/3)? don't play

 

Or Lost Planet? don't play

 

Or Quake? don't play

 

Or Deus Ex? don't play

 

Or Crysis? don't play

 

Or Rage? don't play

 

Or Blacklight? don't play

 

Or Tribes or Doom or Dead Space or Red Faction or Star Wars Battlefront? don't play

 

See what I mean? I am playing Warframe because it's cool and fun. But keep taking the fun out with the nerf hammer and I'll be saying "don't play" and "don't spend any money" to Warframe.

Edited August 14, 2014 by CalledandChosen

[TX10000]

We're not talking about rocket kick or power. The Penta, Ogris and other launchers are plenty powerful enough as is. Hell, when modded right the Angstrum fires 21 rockets AT ONCE. 

 

Stop trying to divert attention away from the question I'm posing: How much ammo do the other Sci-Fi games give you with rockets/grenades "that we simply cannot discuss nor be limited by the sizes of ammo used in similar devices of today"?

I'm not diverging. You are trying to compare two numbers without saying what these numbers are. The qualities the numbers represent are different that's my point. A good example is Quake, it allows you to have 200 rockets, or 50 in the live version. http://quake.wikia.com/wiki/Rocket_Launcher_%28Q3%29 just by comparing it directly with numbers in this game however does not prove anything at all.

[genclaymore]

launcher users be butthurt

L2play a different weapon and stop complaining

How about you stop complaining about what weapons people are using, it only happen because people was butt hurt that people was using launchers. and not weapons they think people should use. Next it gonna be enegry weapons that get ammo nerf next and so on. 20 is too low, you already have ot charge the launcher to fire the rocket and not doing so jams it, besides getting instant killed if you where too close to the blast range, All they had to do is stop at 100 but 20 come on. It like there trying to force you to use your melee weapon, instead of it being optinal.

Edited August 14, 2014 by genclaymore

[fatpig84]

We're not talking about rocket kick or power. The Penta, Ogris and other launchers are plenty powerful enough as is. Hell, when modded right the Angstrum fires 21 rockets AT ONCE. 

 

Stop trying to divert attention away from the question I'm posing: How much ammo do the other Sci-Fi games give you with rockets/grenades "that we simply cannot discuss nor be limited by the sizes of ammo used in similar devices of today"?

 

Especially with games like Destiny where you can materialize an entire hoverbike out of thin air yet you can't hold more than 5 or so rockets.

 

Lemme help him XD

 

Doom 3 = 96 rockets (91 reserve + 5 loaded)

Borderlands 1 = Rockets 72

Duke Nukem = RPG 50, Devastator 99

Doom/Doom 2 = Rockets 50 (upgradeable to 100)

Strife = Mini missile launcher 100 (upgradeable to 200)

Quake/Quake 2 = Rockets 100

 

But waaaait a minute.

Those guns came from an era where enemies came in swarms and there is no regenerative health or shields.

Where guys are mainly grunts without special powahs like us, except the random power up in a secret room or so.

 

 

So they need all that firepower.

We don't really need that much firepower, because warframes are deadly themselves.

Edited August 14, 2014 by fatpig84

[Wrathinside]

I'll join your protest(after I do this miserable event).

I'm really considering getting 2nd warning point for this... I've seen a lot of excrements spilling out of DE for the last half a year, but damn they keep it coming with a laxative...

So far, to compensate for "hotheads", smartashes around claim that 500 ammo was too much. Well, DUH. No **** here. But TWENTY ammo?
I won't talk about space realism or logic, but 20 ammo is plain INSUFFICIENT.

Let's be analytical, please, as smartashes think of themselves.

What are launchers used for?
-No, they are no longer Linked by Trinity
-No, they are no longer sole weapons with AoE capability(thanks to Stug, Amprex, Angstrum, and RIP Castrated Castanas)
-No, they are rarely used to just snipe that heavy gunner in the head past 100(as my nerd friend did).

They are used for DEFENSE. To blow **** off. From safe distance. Now - players will either be forced to run around with their launchers, sniffing for sniper ammo OR waste another slot for mutation. But that's not it. The running around part - that's it. How tired are you of imbeciles who die from toxics in ODD, because they just can't stand still for 90% of the wave? Well, now even launchers will have do it. Or will have to severely limit their output(especially since there is no guarantee to pick up enough ammo between waves without Nekros). I doubt that Sniper Ammo will restore 5-10 rockets, correct me here, I cba to play even without protest to check it.

So what's my point? If you want to balance the game, make weapons competitive and reasonable - you can't kill them off in process. You want to reduce ammo to make it reasonable and realistic, even so - limiting? Well, how about Sniper Ammo standard? What was it, 110? There, you have realism, you have players with limited ammo in Nekros/pod-less conditions. Still too much? Still hemorrhoid in your developer rears is forcing you to take action? Deal, make it 50-60. Make it at least so that a player COULD have ENOUGH ammo pool to stand at safe distance and take care of a wave in Defense WITHOUT going out for ammo. What happens after - is their responsibility.

But effing 20 ammo is a tunnel to ammo pods. Not every player can yet handle energy pods, why push ammo now? 20 ammo is such limitation on a weapon that it becomes...

You want me to say it, huh? It becomes a tool. A tool that you carry to deal with certain situations, a tool that is either must have... or no point to have at all. This is how you've ruined Melee by not revamping coptering. (Who in their right minds use Nikana, when Dual Ichor does almost the same damage with scaling coptering?)
It's no longer a weapon of choice, of fun. It's only a tool to use. This isn't balancing, this is killing.

I hope DE will reconsider this. Personally I'm not asking for much, I am veteran Nekros, I have resources for pods, I know my way around weapons. I could take this "nerf" to the chin.
But I wouldn't speak for new players, for less resourceful players, for players without Nekros. For those, who'd have to wave goodbye to their launchers.
Maybe making it 50 ammo would be more agreeable, don't you think?

Cheers for the protest, but I won't play with or without it.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Wrathinside

[TX10000]

Lemme help him XD

 

Doom 3 = 96 rockets (91 reserve + 5 loaded)

Borderlands 1 = Rockets 72

Duke Nukem = RPG 50, Devastator 99

Doom/Doom 2 = Rockets 50 (upgradeable to 100)

Strife = Mini missile launcher 100 (upgradeable to 200)

Quake/Quake 2 = Rockets 100

 

But waaaait a minute.

Those guns came from an era where enemies came in swarms and there is no regenerative health or shields.

Where guys are mainly grunts without special powahs like us, except the random power up in a secret room or so.

 

 

So they need all that firepower.

We don't really need that much firepower, because warframes are deadly themselves.

Just one anti-"era" ... Borderlands1 is a FPS/RPG blend where your chars have special powers and you have shields. One of the playable characters there has even got a skill to not only increase the mags but also regenerate (rockets included). http://borderlands.wikia.com/wiki/Rocket_Launcher

 

Also why all of the comparations, is it really that warframe is becoming just another [fill what ever you played]? That's not a good argument.

[Dessfar]

I really enjoyed playing this game back in U7.5, but since then my fun went down the hill...

I recognize that having 500+ ammo in my penta, even having 200+ of ogris is way too much, but reducing it to below 100 simply defeats the whole idea of having it, or even of reaching the higher mastery ranks.

And so I call for a >>>>>PROTEST<<<<< of not playing this game.

Unless we stop playing this game and point to our motivation, the game will depend on how the DE's frontmen wake up from their bed.

So do complete the upcoming operations why not, but do not play (don't even log for dayly rewards) beyond that.

Post a message to that effect into the regional chat and do not discuss (nobody discusses with us neither).

I am the 1st of ANTI AMMO NERF PROTESTERS and I want my 100+ penta ammo belt back!!!!!

Hahahaha

Just stop being a penta noob.  

Edited August 14, 2014 by Dessfar

[alfaomega04]

TX10000, on 14 Aug 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

We're not speaking about other games. We speak about a futuristic sci-fi game where we simply cannot discuss nor be limited by the sizes of ammo used in similar devices of today. However also in other games the devs won't understand things unless ppl protest and the most effective way is to stop playing the game up until it's fixed.

I've seen those post where the game start being compared to others or even worse, to real life weapons.

Now,when play a game I couldn't give a crap if it doesn't "feel" like other games or if the weapon is true to its real life counterpart. The main point is that I have fun. "HA HA, you have proved my point" you say! To have fun. But the problem was that launchers felt cheap like nova used to feel before her nerf. Keep in mind that she was and is my favorite frame. But her nerf made her even more fun to use as something that is OP never quite give the same satisfaction. Exactly the same goes the launcher nerf.

Edited August 14, 2014 by alfaomega04

[Edgarhighman]

angstrum is my favorite gun. I'd sell all my other weapons to enjoy it.

I don't have ogris or penta so idk the inf ammo issues. I saw no problem when other players enjoyed the game on my squad at ANY time using these guns. Higher ranks/levels are supposed to have better guns.

I spent a lot of plat on forma, catalyst and mods to soup up my angstrum. (which I can NOT afford$$ to piss away!!), I use it very conservatively.

NOW it fires 10 shots. Don't "oh single shot the gun" crap. Truth is it fires 10 shots. HAS NO ammo mutation. And if it did, its just a WASTE of a mod slot. It lasts 2-3 mobs in void or 5 rooms regular missions then your stripped of your fun and enjoyment. Does anyone know how sh**** the low rank primaries are vs higher lvl mobs (23-30+) without forma/cat? you can equip 3 high rank mods +/-10 = 30 slots on the gun then kaput. Upgrade or die. 10 shots. what a dupe. needs 60-90 ammo pool or 45+ ammo mutation. idk what kind of space DERP disenjoyed other people having fun. There is no "ninja" in this game. I've never encountered a squad in 1 1/2 years who did a mission without guns blazing. There is so much unrealism that there is no need for such a nerf. The top launching primaries should have 30-60max ammo since ammo drops are now rare. If I performed this update myself

I would have taken much more into consideration. Ive been modding my own games since 2000 so... angstrum should honestly have like 110 ammo cap. My previous reference aforementioned is "at-most" conservative. This update and count towards "launcher ammo" in general was poorly executed no matter how much anyone (including devs) defends it. FUN produces the sales. Lack of fun reduces sales in games. case closed.

its understandable to lower primaries launcher ammo, but this was done most extreme. And without proper consideration towards the full launcher class. quanta(shoots explosive)? angstrum? Attica(soon to be nerfed replacement to launchers) Maybe the decision isn't final, but as it stands its not adequately done.

[TX10000]

I've seen those post where the game start being compared to others or even worse, to real life weapons.

Now,when play a game I couldn't give a crap if it doesn't "feel" like other games or if the weapon is true to its real life counterpart. The main point is that I have fun. "HA HA, you have proved my point" you say! To have fun. But the problem was that launchers felt cheap like nova used to feel before her nerf. Keep in mind that she was and is my favorite frame. But her nerf made her even more fun to use as something that is OP never quite give the same satisfaction. Exactly the same goes the launcher nerf.

Not much is left to really help in a fight. If this continues, after some time all frames and weps are gonna be nerfed to perform alike.

[CalledandChosen]

Lemme help him XD

 

Doom 3 = 96 rockets (91 reserve + 5 loaded)

Borderlands 1 = Rockets 72

Duke Nukem = RPG 50, Devastator 99

Doom/Doom 2 = Rockets 50 (upgradeable to 100)

Strife = Mini missile launcher 100 (upgradeable to 200)

Quake/Quake 2 = Rockets 100

 

But waaaait a minute.

Those guns came from an era where enemies came in swarms and there is no regenerative health or shields.

Where guys are mainly grunts without special powahs like us, except the random power up in a secret room or so.

 

 

So they need all that firepower.

We don't really need that much firepower, because warframes are deadly themselves.

 

Not true. The "we don't need all that firepower" thinking is dead wrong. Those games have normal grunt enemies to match the powerless nowmal player, just added health and numbers. Warframe enemies have massive powers that match the player, and defense and survival and MD  have massive number of enenies at higher levels. So the same logic that gives the other games more ammo applies here.

[TX10000]

Hahahaha

Just stop being a penta noob.  

I won't have more time to play what's used to be a 30min battle for the whole of a day (not that you would not get swarmed).

Edited August 14, 2014 by TX10000

[Mama_Sasha]

One advice that can be applied to all. Use your ammo wisely. nuff said.

[TX10000]

One advice that can be applied to all. Use your ammo wisely. nuff said.

Try to outsmart this> Out of ammo, game over.

[Mama_Sasha]

Try to outsmart this> Out of ammo, game over.

use melee then, or switch to your secondary.

[Letter13]

Try to outsmart this> Out of ammo, game over.

Ok.

 

Out of ammo > Switch weapons or use powers instead for a bit > Switch back when you got some new ammo > Solved

 

Alternatively...

 

Out of ammo > Tell your Nekros buddy to start spamming that desecrate > get more ammo > Solved

 

Or even alternatively yet again...

 

Out of ammo > Learn to NOT be a one-trick-pony > Solved

 

Or possibly the best solution yet:

 

Out of ammo > Drop a team ammo restore for you and your buds > Solved for you AND your friends

[RSITH]

Ok.

 

Out of ammo > Switch weapons or use powers instead for a bit > Switch back when you got some new ammo > Profit???

 

Alternatively...

 

Out of ammo > Tell your Nekros buddy to start spamming that desecrate > get more ammo > Profit???

 

Or even alternatively yet again...

 

Out of ammo > Learn to NOT be a one-trick-pony > Profit??!?!!?

true another way of using other stuff or even a better suggestion rifle mutation. "Light bulb "

[S3EK3R]

Or Destiny?  I don't play it, I play Warframe, because it's more fun - until you nerf all the fun out. Come on, it's non PvP, it's PVE for Petes sake.

 

Or Unreal Tournament? don't play

 

Or Planetside/Planetside 2? don't play

 

Or Mass Effect (2/3)? don't play

 

Or Lost Planet? don't play

 

Or Quake? don't play

 

Or Deus Ex? don't play

 

Or Crysis? don't play

 

Or Rage? don't play

 

Or Blacklight? don't play

 

Or Tribes or Doom or Dead Space or Red Faction or Star Wars Battlefront? don't play

 

See what I mean? I am playing Warframe because it's cool and fun. But keep taking the fun out with the nerf hammer and I'll be saying "don't play" and "don't spend any money" to Warframe.

Oh my God. Aren't you being silly? EVERY GAME SUCKS BECAUSE THEY DON'T GIVE US HUNDREDS OF AMMO FOR OUR ROCKET LAUNCHERS!

 

All you crybabies need to realize that 100+ ammo is ridiculous and pointless. I can agree on 50, because that seems balanced for Warframe.

 

You just cry because easymode is taken away from you and you need to use your brains to play the game. But that's not fun. I just want to camp and shoot rockets like they're standard ammo for every weapon.

 

EDIT: I need 100000 ammo for my Soma and Boltor Prime cuz I cannot solo 90min T4S without losing ammo and switching to my secondary. Also, I need to use my brain.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Letter13

[Letter13]

true another way of using other stuff or even a better suggestion rifle mutation. "Light bulb "

Some people assume that if they have to use any ammo mutation on a gun then that gun is immediately worthless and can't do a single point of damage to enemies.

 

I'm humoring their "zomg I shouldn't have to use ammo mutation to spam completely absurd amounts of ammo" mindset. Which isn't a good mindset to begin with (a lot of my weapons use ammo mutation, like machine pistols, flux, spectra, ignis, grakataaaaa, etc). And launchers do enough damage that substituting 300 or so extra damage for a limitless supply of ammo is perfectly reasonable.

[RSITH]

Some people assume that if they have to use any ammo mutation on a gun then that gun is immediately worthless and can't do a single point of damage to enemies.

 

I'm humoring their "zomg I shouldn't have to use ammo mutation to spam completely absurd amounts of ammo" mindset. Which isn't a good mindset to begin with (a lot of my weapons use ammo mutation, like machine pistols, flux, spectra, ignis, grakataaaaa, etc). And launchers do enough damage that substituting 300 or so extra damage for a limitless supply of ammo is perfectly reasonable.

You have a point explosives does lots of damage.

[Mama_Sasha]

Some people assume that if they have to use any ammo mutation on a gun then that gun is immediately worthless and can't do a single point of damage to enemies.

 

I'm humoring their "zomg I shouldn't have to use ammo mutation to spam completely absurd amounts of ammo" mindset. Which isn't a good mindset to begin with (a lot of my weapons use ammo mutation, like machine pistols, flux, spectra, ignis, grakataaaaa, etc). And launchers do enough damage that substituting 300 or so extra damage for a limitless supply of ammo is perfectly reasonable.

Ammo souldnt be an issue since enemies drop them all the time, so the ammo nerf sould not be a problem. Never used mutation mods before but those seems a little overkill with ammo in this case, but how do they work exacly?

[TX10000]

Oh my God. Aren't you being silly? EVERY GAME SUCKS BECAUSE THEY DON'T GIVE US HUNDREDS OF AMMO FOR OUR ROCKET LAUNCHERS!

 

All you crybabies need to realize that 100+ ammo is ridiculous and pointless. I can agree on 50, because that seems balanced for Warframe.

 

You just cry because easymode is taken away from you and you need to use your brains to play the game. But that's not fun. I just want to camp and shoot rockets like they're standard ammo for every weapon.

 

EDIT: I need 100000 ammo for my Soma and Boltor Prime cuz I cannot solo 90min T4S without losing ammo and switching to my secondary. Also, I need to use my brain.

You counter yourself by saying that at least 50 is balanced for warframe man, next time call those names yourself.

[TX10000]

Some people assume that if they have to use any ammo mutation on a gun then that gun is immediately worthless and can't do a single point of damage to enemies.

 

I'm humoring their "zomg I shouldn't have to use ammo mutation to spam completely absurd amounts of ammo" mindset. Which isn't a good mindset to begin with (a lot of my weapons use ammo mutation, like machine pistols, flux, spectra, ignis, grakataaaaa, etc). And launchers do enough damage that substituting 300 or so extra damage for a limitless supply of ammo is perfectly reasonable.

The mutation would matter and would be an argument if you would be able to put down enough number of enemies that would drop enough number of ammo. At higher waves this cannot guaranteed. Eventualy you'll spend your 26 (with the mods) ammo pool without downing enough of the guys. Next!

Edited August 14, 2014 by TX10000

[Wrathinside]

Ok.

 

Out of ammo > Switch weapons or use powers instead for a bit > Switch back when you got some new ammo > Solved

 

Alternatively...

 

Out of ammo > Tell your Nekros buddy to start spamming that desecrate > get more ammo > Solved

 

Or even alternatively yet again...

 

Out of ammo > Learn to NOT be a one-trick-pony > Solved

 

Or possibly the best solution yet:

 

Out of ammo > Drop a team ammo restore for you and your buds > Solved for you AND your friends

Dude, seriously? Am I allowed to insult a moderator?

Switch weapon? You do realize that launchers are... launchers. It's not like changing a pair of gloves. If a launcher becomes unavailable, mission can be over. I understand that it's players' responsibility to maintain a launcher, but to suggest to change launcher - is like suggesting not to use toilet paper when you've run out of it.

Nekros buddy? So what, now we are officially tunneled into 75%-efficiency Nekroses in our groups? Like, really? Please, Mr.Moderator - announce it in the next hotfix. I'd be so overjoyed to finally be not alone, pwetty please. Otherwise good luck with your suggestion, it will certainly help public games.

One-trick pony? You've said it. YOU. The moderator. I could've understood if grandmaster paid for his lack of ingenuity, but moderator? We are playing a game, where almost every single frame has ONE, rarely two useful abilities. Iron Skin, Link, Molecular Prime, Tentacles, Hall of Mirrors, Radial Blind, Radial Disarm... list can go on almost indefinitely. And most weapons are used precisely because of their effects, not just out of fancy. You can't casually ask players to remove their weapons, because ... well, because they are not so needed, or what? Besides, didn't DE make Melee 2.0 as an option to male gameplay melee-only possible? How's that for a one-trick pony?

You could bring ammo pods here, but that's optional personal investment, which is too much to ask for a whole group of weapons. I understand when energy pod is used to heal QT or restore group energy, but ammo pod to maintain 20 ammo weapon? <censored>

Edited August 14, 2014 by Wrathinside