Weapon Switching Is Too Sluggish And Unresponsive For A Fast-Paced Shooter.

[Caernarvon]

When switching weapons during gameplay in an action game I expect it to be snappy, so I can swap to what I need as I fight.

In Warframe however switching between primary and secondary or from guns to melee stance is very slow (animation is long), and when you aren't the host, often unresponsive (animation doesn't begin instantly).

This is a problem as it breaks the flow of gameplay with unnecessary and frustrating downtimes.

 

In short: Weapon switching should be faster, snappier, to fit the fast pace of gameplay.

 

Note: The Speed Holster aura isn't the solution. You shouldn't have to sacrifice something as important as your aura slot to achieve acceptable animation length for a core mechanic like weapon switching (same issue as Handspring and knockdowns).

Edited August 14, 2014 by Caernarvon

[Endrance]

Actually, imo, i believe that the time spent swaping is quite... "real". Never seen someone holster a bow in the back while drawing dual pistol like, lightning speed?

 

This is not Rurouni Kenshin with Hiten Mitsurugi Technique.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Endrance

[Sarmon]

I agree. As much as DE wants to fix things for certain playstyles using mods and auras, weapon switch speed should be a lot faster than it is now.

 

Especially with the launcher nerfs. You'll probably be switching weapons often to conserve ammo for those big groups of enemies together.

[Azakeroth]

Thats why theres the opinion to take cover or move around, i find no issues switching weapons.

[Caernarvon]

Thats why theres the opinion to take cover or move around, i find no issues switching weapons.

 

This would be fine in a cover shooter like Gears of War, which Warframe isn't.

When I'm in midair after jumping off a platform and spot an enemy at range, I should be able to switch from, say, my close range secondary to my long range primary on the spot to react to the situation, but I can't. This is what breaks the flow of gameplay.

 

Actually, imo, i believe that the time spent swaping is quite... "real". Never seen someone holster a bow in the back while drawing dual pistol like, lightning speed?

 

Warframe is a fantasy action game with superhuman space ninjas that defy gravity.

Realism shouldn't get in the way of game mechanics in any game that isn't a simulator.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Caernarvon

[Tiger.Engine]

Pretty sure there is a mod for that..

[Murasume]

EDIT: ^

you could always equip speed holster aura lol~

Edited August 14, 2014 by Murasume

[Caernarvon]

Pretty sure there is a mod for that..

 

EDIT: ^

you could always equip speed holster aura lol~

 

Did you even read my opening post? I have a section on why "fixing" a core mechanic with an Aura is stupid.

 

[Worira]

Actually, imo, i believe that the time spent swaping is quite... "real". Never seen someone holster a bow in the back while drawing dual pistol like, lightning speed?

 

This is not Rurouni Kenshin with Hiten Mitsurugi Technique.

 

We're fast enough to block bullets with a sword. Realism isn't a good argument here.

[Ronyn]

Why is it every-time someone wants to talk about what should be standard in warframe a bunch of people talk about mods?

Yes, mods exist to modify things to fit our preferences better.

BUT a game still has a standard, a base on which all modification is layered on top of.

We need to be able to address that base directly, to talk about it directly, without jumping to the "mod it" response.

[Sarmon]

Once again, people don't read the thread completely and defend an issue without actual though about gameplay.

 

Aren't we super space ninjas or something? Shouldn't we be very agile? I understand something like Fragor, but changing from a vasto to a braton takes longer than reloading a fully reload speed-modded vasto.

[vaugahn]

Innate speed holster on certain weapons would be nice.

[Hueminator]

Yes I do feel switching weapon speed is too slow.  Another problem is how you switch weapon.

 

F alternate between side arm and primary.  Hold F is melee.  Now let say you using primary and switched to melee.  Now how do you switch back to side arm?  F take you do primary, so you need to F again.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Hueminator

[Caernarvon]

Innate speed holster on certain weapons would be nice.

 

More like all of them.

[Z123FFSS89]

The time it takes to switch doesn't bother me but there is a loooooong delay when I use quick melee. It takes like 4-7 secs to holster my weapon back and I'll often go down because of it. It only happens with pole arms though which I primarily use.

[DoomsDayDan]

The time it takes to switch doesn't bother me but there is a loooooong delay when I use quick melee. It takes like 4-7 secs to holster my weapon back and I'll often go down because of it. It only happens with pole arms though which I primarily use.

It's especially stupid when you switch to your melee weapon while doing quick melee, you swing your sword, put it back, and then pull it out again

[Methanoid]

Note: The Speed Holster aura isn't the solution. You shouldn't have to sacrifice something as important as your aura slot to achieve acceptable animation length for a core mechanic like weapon switching (same issue as Handspring and knockdowns).

the aura slot is there exactly to change something to be mor ebeneficial to you, if weapon swapping is that big a deal then the aura is exactly the right item and is ready to be used whenever you like.

 

its a given option, and it can be taken any time you find it convenient.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Methanoid

[Davoodoo]

Most hilarious thing ever.

 

You had pistols equipped, you used quick melee but a split second later decided that you need to block or channel.

So you hold f, what happens:

1)you holster melee

2)you draw pistols

3)you holster pistols

4) you draw melee

 

Seriously wtf

 

It should be near instant and in that specific example it should in fact be instant since you already had your sword out.

Not to mention that most of the time its faster to reload than to switch weapons and even modern shooters got this thing right.

If modern soldier can do this why cant space ninja whos only occupation is mastering his fighting style for his whole life.

 

Also speed holster isnt solution, it doesnt make drawing fast, it barely makes it acceptable.

For speed holster to be acceptable for its heavy cost(aura slot, lower points) it should REDUCE drawing time by 25/50/75/100% basically making changing weapons instant at max rank, skipping all animations.

To be a good option it would also need to reduce reloading speed a bit.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Davoodoo

[DSpite]

When switching weapons during gameplay in an action game I expect it to be snappy, so I can swap to what I need as I fight.

In Warframe however switching between primary and secondary or from guns to melee stance is very slow (animation is long), and when you aren't the host, often unresponsive (animation doesn't begin instantly).

This is a problem as it breaks the flow of gameplay with unnecessary and frustrating downtimes.

 

In short: Weapon switching should be faster, snappier, to fit the fast pace of gameplay.

 

Note: The Speed Holster aura isn't the solution. You shouldn't have to sacrifice something as important as your aura slot to achieve acceptable animation length for a core mechanic like weapon switching (same issue as Handspring and knockdowns).

 

You DO understand that the point of "balance" is to have tradeoffs. The Aura is a tradeoff.

 

That's like saying "take away weapon recoil because I can use the slot where I would have to put a recoil reducing mod in for another more important damage mod."

Edited August 15, 2014 by DSpite

[Brynslustafir]

Actually, imo, i believe that the time spent swaping is quite... "real". Never seen someone holster a bow in the back while drawing dual pistol like, lightning speed?

 

This is not Rurouni Kenshin with Hiten Mitsurugi Technique.

This is a game about space ninja mercenaries with borderline-magic powers.

Realism has no place here. 

[DSpite]

Once again, people don't read the thread completely and defend an issue without actual though about gameplay.

 

Aren't we super space ninjas or something? Shouldn't we be very agile? I understand something like Fragor, but changing from a vasto to a braton takes longer than reloading a fully reload speed-modded vasto.

 

Shouldn't DE already know we have 90% mission completions rates? Shouldn't they just start a 5 minute timer so we can go get a coffee and just dump the mission reward directly into our ship?

 

Is there ANYTHING you want to actually work for in a game, or you just want to hold down the space bar and finish a mission?

 

You DO understand that the purpose of things being hard is to actually stop you doing what you like, right? The mechanics are there for a reason, just because you cant see them does NOT mean they are there "by error" and should be "fixed".

Edited August 15, 2014 by DSpite

[Davoodoo]

You DO understand that the point of "balance" is to have tradeoffs. The Aura is a tradeoff.

 

That's like saying "take away weapon recoil because I can use the slot where I would have to put a recoil reducing mod in for another more important damage mod.

DIfference is that not every weapon will have stupidly high recoil which will require that specific mod, if some weapons would need it and others not then its a fair tradeoff for their power and yes they should have bit of extra power to compensate for base recoil.

 

But when everything requires specific mod to barely work then its called bandaid fix and unnecessary addition

Edited August 15, 2014 by Davoodoo

[ArbitUHM]

I agree that switching from melee stance to guns is pretty awkward.  I can press 'e' and instantly swing my sword - there's no gun holstering animation or weapon readying animation, it just happens instantly - but for some reason switching to melee stance requires me to carefully and slowly holster my gun and draw my melee weapon and I can't attack until that sequence is completed.  It makes the switch from gunplay to swordplay very awkward, especially since you frequently want to switch back and forth depending on what types of enemies you're fighting. 

 

It just feels bad and looks ridiculous.  I mean what davoodoo describes here

You had pistols equipped, you used quick melee but a split second later decided that you need to block or channel.

So you hold f, what happens:

1)you holster melee

2)you draw pistols

3)you holster pistols

4) you draw melee

is just flat out silly looking and feels like a bad control scheme.  I get the impression that it's this way not out of some carefully considered balance issues, but because the right mouse button is both the zoom and block key depending on whether you're in melee stance or not.  Just separate the zoom and block functions so they use two different buttons.  Seriously... "but it keeps Speed Holster relevant!" is not a good reason to retain such a clunky system.

 

I think it would be DE's advantage to play up a fluid gun/sword combat system.  If that makes tenno too powerful and requires enemies to be buffed in response, then that's fine with me.

[Noble_Cactus]

Actually, imo, i believe that the time spent swaping is quite... "real". Never seen someone holster a bow in the back while drawing dual pistol like, lightning speed?

 

This is not Rurouni Kenshin with Hiten Mitsurugi Technique.

 

But it is.

 

Have you seen what else we do as Tenno? A clunky weapon swap speed does not fit with the pace of this game at all. 

[CY13ERPUNK]

um, no 

 

i disagree

 

swapping weapons is plenty fast, and if you want it to be faster, well... there's a mod for that