Difficulty

[EvilKam]

Disclaimer:  I expect a lot of hate from this post.

 

Warframe is not an easy game, and it's only getting harder.

 

Despised Enemy #1:

Shock Eximus enemies do everything that an Ancient Disruptor does, except at range, and from behind walls, doors, and other obstacles, and can take down the whole team's energy at once.

 

I've been in missions where I can't find this enemy, and yet, this enemy devastates me.  No powers, no energy, and no way to find the threat.  My only choice being to run away until I can carefully approach and eliminate it, only to find that I ran THE WRONG WAY because it spawned behind me, around a corner that I had already cleared.

 

I'm not running "forwards", deeper into the level, I'm running BACK towards my start point, which I've already cleared, which SHOULD be safer than moving forwards into unknown territory.

 

Thank God they are rare.

 

Despised Enemy #2:

Mutalisks.  Remember when Toxic Ancients were nerfed?  They used to drop a toxic cloud when you killed them.  DE dropped the "Death Cloud" because it wasn't fun, and only served to needlessly slow down gameplay, or punish you for killing them, and making melee kills deadly or even suicidal to try.

 

So the solution is to make a Flying Toxic Ancient?  This enemy has, on numerous occasions, flew over me, laying down it's toxic path, bypassing my shields, and sapping my precious health.  I don't know which direction it came from, I don't know which direction it went, all I DO know is that I'm in the middle of a death cloud and have to get out of it.  So, I run, jump, leap, and slide.  Oh, I'm STILL IN THE CLOUD!.  Why?  Because I happened to pick "the long way".

 

The only solution to that is to stop, look carefully around in a 360, determine the location of the mutalisk, and drawing a line between you and it, race out at a perpendicular direction.

 

However, YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE YOU ARE IN A TOXIC CLOUD WHICH IS KILLING YOU FOR EVERY MICROSECOND YOU SPEND INSIDE OF IT!

 

The only thing you can do is "Go fast" and hope that you "got lucky in picking the direction to run".  Completely unacceptable.

 

Or, you could play only Valkyr, who is one of my favorites, I admit, but I don't want to play ONLY Valkyr.

 

Despised Enemy #3:  Alad V.

I needed a neural sensor for some forma.  I ran Alad V.  It's Jupiter, so I bring my Mutalisk Quanta to finish levelling it, and my trusty Stug, and beloved Orthos Prime.  Hey, I'm prepared, if the Quanta can't take Alad and Zanuka down, I still have 2 good weapons to fight with.  Oh, except he is LEVEL FORTY THREE.  I had to burn 3 revives ON ALAD V.  I'M MASTERY FIFTEEN!  Alad V is NOT A THREAT.  Maybe he was supposed to be a threat to me when I was Mastery FIVE, But I'm BEYOND THAT NOW!

 

So, Essentially, all that gear that I thought was "fun" to play with?  Throw it away.  I guess it's time to farm up that Brakk, Hold on to my Boltor Prime, and the Dragon Nikana, and get rid of everything else!  Hey, I really like my Dera, TOO BAD BECAUSE THERE IS NO POINT TO PLAYING UNLESS YOU BRING YOUR MOST OP GEAR TO EVERY MISSION THEN.

 

IT'S ALAD V.  I'm NOT DOING ANOTHER VEY HEK RUN!  The two bosses ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE COMPARABLE!  One is a HARD TO FIND boss, the other is supposed to be an easy kill for mid-tier players who need some resources.

 

So DE, if you're going to keep ratcheting up the difficulty more and more and more, what am I supposed to do?  I have some of the best gear in the game, if the game gets harder, then you need to release more powerful things to help me take on those challenges.

 

I've been gaming for thirty years.  I started off being "okay" at Atari, and progressed from there to be "bad" at Nintendo games, "bad" at Super Nintendo games, "bad" at Dreamcast games, N64 games etc..,  I'm not going to get better.  I'm not, nor will I ever be a pro player.  I'm not asking to be able to get gear that makes me "better than everyone else".  I'm okay with being last place in a contest of skills.  I've accepted my limitations, this is my peak.   So anyone who says "You need to get better" is wrong.  This is me at my best.

 

Getting more power in a game is the whole point.  Better weapons, better defenses, better abilities, these are all normal in a game.  However, if everything in the game gets stronger at the same rate YOU get stronger, than THERE IS NO PROGRESSION.  If it takes 12 bullets with the wimpy gun to kill a wimpy enemy, that's a starting point you build from.  If I get a strong gun that does 10 times the damage, I'm ten times more deadly.  But if all the enemies get 10 times as much health to MATCH my strong gun, then I'm STILL FIRING 12 BULLETS to kill one.  There is no "progress".

 

Okay, a lot of players are these elite "Pro" players who are tired of the fact that their Boltor Prime kills things.  They are sick of winning.  I cannot express in English how envious I am of them.

 

So my question is:  How do we change Warframe to allow you pros to crank things up to "Pro" level, and not alienate lower tier players with poorer reflexes, weaker perception abilities, inferior sense of direction, and mediocre fine motor control?  (In other words, people like me).

 

Maybe missions need an "Extreme nightmare" mode, so that the pro players can run 25k-50k credit missions and get 5 packs of Rare10 cores, or triple resources, or tradeable kubrow stuff.

 

Me?  I want my "I suck at video games" missions, and there is no reason to say "No Neural Sensors for you anymore you worthless plebe".

 

And what if I have a clan mate who needs help on a mission?  If everything always scales to the uber limits of my conclave rating, I CAN'T help them.  Me being in the mission only makes everything HARDER ON THEM.  If I bring weak gear, then I'm not adding much of anything to the team, so I can't help that way either.

 

*Edit:  Located and rectified 1 spelling and 2 grammatical errors.

Edited August 17, 2014 by EvilKam

[Leland_Gaunt]

The game is not particularly hard. More grindy than anything else.

[PeanutMonster]

It's an easy game becoming harder, FINALLY.

[Berserkerkitten]

So my question is:  How do we change Warframe to allow you pros to crank things up to "Pro" level, and not alienate lower tier players with poorer reflexes, weaker perception abilities, inferior sense of direction, and mediocre fine motor control?  (In other words, people like me).

 

Aside from the option to just team up with three more people via matchmaking, which makes most missions a lot easier, I question whether we really should make Warframe any easier and more casual-friendly. Please don't get this the wrong way and I'm saying this with all the love in the world, but it's a fast-paced action game, which does require a certain level of hand-eye coordination and reflexes and much of the content is pretty doable even on non-ideal setups, so perhaps it's just not the game for you?

 

Again, not trying to get rid of you, not wanting to spread any hate, I'm happy for everyone who enjoys Warframe, I'm just not sure it really needs to become easier. Maybe I'm not seeing the bigger picture, but are there really so many players, who have such massive difficulty getting through most of the content?

Edited August 16, 2014 by Berserkerkitten

[taiiat]

i just can't agree with Alad V.

 

it's a Health Bar fight, meaning the number of Powers that will lolstomp him are numerous. that's just me though i guess.

 

 

the other two, depending on situation, sure.

[ClockworkSpectre]

The game is not at all hard for the most part, there are some annoying things, but they don't really qualify as difficult.

 

And I agree with Berserkerkitten, if they make this game easier it will destroy the idea behind the game. 

[Nkomo-Sama]

Disclaimer:  I expect a lot of hate from this post.

 

 

Stopped reading after that I'd hate to disappoint...

 

Edit: Also after reading I must respectfully dissagree... Also this may or may not convey my impression from this thread...however I find it appropriate given the nature of my interpretation

 

Just a joke friend I am sure you will get accustomed to the skill set...but for now...there is this:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 16, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[HonorGuard2074]

Enemies scale to your conclave rating or the team's also try moving out of the cloud

[Berserkerkitten]

If you find a boss particularly difficult, you can even "cheat" a little and lower your conclave rating by not bringing a secondary and/or melee weapon or sentinel or Kubrow... you know, only bring what you need, enjoy your low conclave and a much lower level boss.

[Nkomo-Sama]

Enemies scale to your conclave rating or the team's also try moving out of the cloud

 

 

If you find a boss particularly difficult, you can even "cheat" a little and lower your conclave rating by not bringing a secondary and/or melee weapon or sentinel or Kubrow... you know, only bring what you need, enjoy your low conclave and a much lower level boss.

In hindsight these are far better responses...

[EvilKam]

Enemies scale to your conclave rating or the team's also try moving out of the cloud

You fail at logic.

I'm in the middle of a death cloud and have to get out of it.  So, I run, jump, leap, and slide.  Oh, I'm STILL IN THE CLOUD!.  Why?  Because I happened to pick "the long way".

 

Try again.

 

And having enemies always scale to match conclave is the problem.  If I join a match with lower tier players, I make the game much harder for them because I have badass weapons.  I'm actually a liability because they can't kill the higher level bosses my conclave rating mandates.  Hell, even my MK1 has 5 forma on it.  ( I love that gun).

 

Warframe is NOT EASY.  Warframe BECOMES easy, after you get great mods, reactors, catalysts, and the like.

 

 

Just a joke friend I am sure you will get accustomed to the skill set...but for now...there is this:

I Upvoted your post sir.  ;)

 

Also:  My internet sucks, so I can't team up with people very well.  I'm on shared wifi with about 12 other people.

Edited August 16, 2014 by EvilKam

[PhoenixElite]

Hope you brought your Flame Repellent mod.

[EvilKam]

Hope you brought your Flame Repellent mod.

CA-CAW!  [zoidberg] Your pun is bad, and you should feel bad! [/zoidberg]  I hope you get junk-punched by a space engineer.

And congrats on your 25th forum post.  Holy hell man, where have you been hiding?  (Note:  Phoenix and I are friends)

Edited August 16, 2014 by EvilKam

[Omnimorph]

So far, I'm finding it to be nicely balanced.  It's easy so long as I'm paying attention and thinking/looking ahead, it can get difficult if I goof off too much and don't maintain situational awareness.  As it should be.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Omnimorph

[KiteoHatto]

Bosses are all about mechanics though and the mobs can be avoided/spotted early since they don't appear on your spot instantly..

My biggest problem is g3 appearing and i don't have a cc frame when im in a random party leveling stuff, another one is vor in t4 when you are trying to pay attention to air and enemies, other than that every other boss is pretty easy.

[Nkomo-Sama]

I Upvoted your post sir.  ;)

 

Thanks for having a sense of humor. The conclave rating tip is a good one I believe. Maybe not bringing your most powerful gear may help when you are farming. Also a good alternative to farming resouces is the Dark sectors. I end up getting 2 or 3 neural sensors  doing Jupiter DS def...Good luck and happy hunting!

Edited August 16, 2014 by Nkomo-Sama

[AdFinitum]

Please show tolerance and accept that there are players who think that the difficulty can be too hard at times.

 

As a not too shabby mastery rank 16 player I agree that the difficulty especially for new / levelling players can be hard at certain missions. Especially at times with low activity - a solo Interception on earth is not as easy as some T4 missions even with high ranked gear - probably extremly hard to solo for new players with low level gear. Some Bosses are extremly hard as long as you dont know the strategy. Doing Alad V my first time after U14 expecting him to be an easy 3 second victim again I was quiet surprised how I got blinded and airstriked despite having a decoy placed and being invisible. That was fun ^^.

 

Not saying the game should be harder / easier. Just pointing out that stating the game can be hard for some / new players is not wrong ( and not being a top notch uber player is not bad ).

 

Edit :

 

I think a good start for a solution to that is some more help for new players. Some introduction quests that explain enemy weaknesses, elemental weapon modding and give hints at boss strategies. Players who have a feeling that the game is too hard probably dont know important things yet. Most beginners dont even get to know that they can double the capacity of their weapon / warframe. Maybe give new players quests that give them a starter catalyst, reactor, forma ...

Edited August 16, 2014 by AdFinitum

[Babellon]

On alad v, I agree he can be very tricky, that blinding white flash not only renders the screen white out, but is somewhat blinding to me as well. I hope they'll reduce that effect at some point. blinding my warframe shouldn't mean blinding me as well. make the screen go grey out or something without all the extra overbloom white light is all Im getting at. 

 

On the other parts- have you tried a rhino? I know there's plenty of people who for some reason I cannot fathom have hate towards that frame, but if you set up a good iron skin and stomp efficiency strength build, you can negate a lot of effects through most normal maps. Opsreys you can stomp kill. it might help you make up for some of the hand/eye coordination problems and timing you're describing. Just a thought. 

[Tulzscha]

Please read and understand:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/204165-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-a-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

[RSITH]

Please read and understand:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/204165-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-a-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

^

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

This fixes the status ailment issues: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/262318-slash-and-toxic-are-bad-mechanics/

 

And bosses should scale to the LOWEST leveled player in the group, with a lower cap on their level.  There should not be a level one boss on Pluto.

[Arabaxus]

I agree with the whole Shock Eximus thing. It's not fun to me to have all your energy insta-drained without some skill based way to avoid it. Even with disruptors they have to hook you , and then slap you before it drains, so you have two chances; either not get hooked or get away when it releases, but with Shock Eximus it's rather stupid.

 

Mutalist Ospreys already got nerfed to what I believe are at least reasonable levels. As long as they stay out of Infested Defense they are fine IMO since you don't have to spend 15 minutes after every wave trying to find that one osprey stuck in some tiny corner.

 

Alad V is purely conclave rating. Don't bring a primary or secondary weapon. It helps a lot when I omit a weapon or two, as in he spawns in at a much lower level. Also if you aren't already, take out Alad V so Zanuka loses shields, then damage Zanuka as much as possible before he comes and revives Alad V.

[Davoodoo]

It's an easy game becoming harder, FINALLY.

Yet its difficulty goes more into unfair territory rather than actual challenge.

 

Making game harder is easy, raise every stat on enemy x10 and youre done, it will be harder, but making it a fair challenge is quite different.

[Insidiatorii]

Aside from the option to just team up with three more people via matchmaking, which makes most missions a lot easier, I question whether we really should make Warframe any easier and more casual-friendly. Please don't get this the wrong way and I'm saying this with all the love in the world, but it's a fast-paced action game, which does require a certain level of hand-eye coordination and reflexes and much of the content is pretty doable even on non-ideal setups, so perhaps it's just not the game for you?

 

Again, not trying to get rid of you, not wanting to spread any hate, I'm happy for everyone who enjoys Warframe, I'm just not sure it really needs to become easier. Maybe I'm not seeing the bigger picture, but are there really so many players, who have such massive difficulty getting through most of the content?

I read the first sentence of this and remembered that being in a mission with 3 other people makes the mission more hard. Do you want to know why? Because every time I enter a match with a boss, solo or just me and my buddy, he is MUCH easier to kill than it is with 4 people, and with 4 people it takes twice as long, not exactly sure what this is, i have never heard of the bosses scaling to the amount of players, but i think that is what is going on here.

 

Not in reply to Berserkerkitten, (I also think that people such as OP shouldn't have to say "I expect a lot of hate" that's just completely f****** up in my opinion, if you are going to post an idea, and the OP decides to comment on your post and you get real ANGRY, RAHHH HE IS TRYING TO START A FIGHT WITH ME WELL I'LL SHOW THAT PUNK WHO'S BOSS, RAHHH, Stop. Get off the forums. Now.

[EvilKam]

Berserkerkitten, the problem is that this WAS the perfect game for me!  I was able to overcome my personal deficiencies via character development and equipment selection, allowing even someone as bad as I am to be a useful addition to most runs.  I didn't have to be Fatal1ty to be useful in Warframe.

 

Insidiatorii hits a key point with his first sentence.  Teaming up with people makes missions HARDER.  You are right, bosses scale to match the power of the group, and/or the most powerful Tenno.  Some of my new clan members had realized that having me in their group was actually hurting them.  I jump in to help them kill Vor, and when the boss fight starts, lo and behold, they can't put a dent in him.  Why?  Because I have reactors and catalysts on all of my "fun" gear.

 

Thus, teamwork actually crippled them at the boss fight.  If your Clan Warlord joins to help you, and his presence makes things worse, then it's better off if he just stays out.

 

I believe the solution is to implement a choice to run such missions at different scales when we click on them.  First, as a normal mission, with normal rewards, and normal drop chances, (Where Alad V tops out at around level 30) and an "uber scaling" version so that if you want to fight that level 62 Alad V, you can.  Instead of a chance at a neural sensor, you should have a chance at say, 5-10 neural sensors, and credit drops get a flat x3 to x10 bonus on them.

 

Ultimately, a level 60 boss fight should NOT drop 150 alloy plates.  A level 60 boss should be dropping CLUSTERS of Argon Crystals, Oxium, Orokin cells, etc...  At level 60, you should be getting RARE resources.  Not the same things dropped by level 5 canon fodder.

 

Also:  I apologize for posting (originally) in the wrong section.  I shall endeavor to avoid this mistake in the future.

Edited August 17, 2014 by EvilKam