Prime Weapon Re-Balancing - How Many Threads Till We Get It? (So Many Braton Prime Threads!)

[Sloan441]

Polarities can be worked around.

 

What it needs is better base stats, namely damage, since that's what this gun has always been about. That's all it really needs.

 

It handles extremely well with a large magazine, reasonably rapid reload, and good accuracy. If it had 30-35 base damage and about a 10% increase in RoF we wouldn't be bumping these threads all over the place.

 

The gun needs improvement commensurate with the difficulty in obtaining it and the company it keeps--namely being a prime weapon.

[Gahrzerkire]

Polarities can be worked around.

 

What it needs is better base stats, namely damage, since that's what this gun has always been about. That's all it really needs.

 

It handles extremely well with a large magazine, reasonably rapid reload, and good accuracy. If it had 30-35 base damage and about a 10% increase in RoF we wouldn't be bumping these threads all over the place.

 

The gun needs improvement commensurate with the difficulty in obtaining it and the company it keeps--namely being a prime weapon.

Also a status boost to around 15% mabye 20% but thats on par with the Grak so thats not okay. 

[Rydian]

I'd be quite happy with a damage buff to 35 (40% increase) and no other changes.  The rest of the stats are average for primes and I think they should stay that way to allow more flexible modding without the weapon being the overkill that certain others (BoltNailMurderPrime) are.

[alfaomega04]

I'd be quite happy with a damage buff to 35 (40% increase) and no other changes.  The rest of the stats are average for primes and I think they should stay that way to allow more flexible modding without the weapon being the overkill that certain others (BoltNailMurderPrime) are.

I agree with this, anywhere from 35-42 dmg is the only change this gun needs. No higher crit, procs, ROF, reload, magazine or other things. The way it handles allows us very easily to do headshots consistently at mid range as it is hit-scan (like boltor) and don't have spool up (like soma).

[Rydian]

Yeah I like that it's hitscan and doesn't spool up or have any other strange things about it.  It's a standard automatic rifle, and it should handle as such... while doing prime-level damage.

[Vaskadar]

Thread must be kept alive!

 

Truth is, that they, the Prime weapons, are grossly inconsistent and need a tuning pass.

[Renegade343]

Thread must be kept alive!

 

Truth is, that they, the Prime weapons, are grossly inconsistent and need a tuning pass.

Can I churn the numbers then?

 

After all, numbers is my domain (and I do know what I am doing). 

[MirageKnight]

Sounds good - but what are you going to use as a base of reference for conversion?

 

I think it might be a good idea to use the Latron Prime, as that would seem to be the one Prime weapon that is probably the best balanced / has the least people complaining about it.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

Bump.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

Poor Braton Prime.

 

Anyway yes, let Prime weapons be worth the effort. If Boltor Prime is allowed to be a full auto death cannon, bumping up some stats on guns like the akbronco couldn't hurt.

[Pseudo-Nym]

One of the devs spoke of the Braton Prime buff in a recent stream, along with heavy weapon buffs. I cannot remember which dev or which stream, but I hope that idea does not just disappear into oblivion. I would really enjoy using forma on that weapon, if it was just not THAT inferior to others.The Boltor Prime is literally the "go to" gun against all three factions, even if its damage says that Grineer are the best for it. Braton Prime has slash damage as its forte and is hit-scan, I'd like to see it be worthwhile against the infested, and not out-damaged by a puncture-based weapon.

[Sloan441]

It was Scott and he didn't appear thrilled with the idea.

 

The problem fundamentally is not that this gun is old and only does 25 base damage. The problem is it's a T3 gun. It's only available from doing T3, but it's roughly equivalent to a starter weapon you can first build when you hit Jupiter--namely the Karak.

 

Its way over-shadowed by the other T3 primes, yet requires the same level of effort to obtain. On top of that, there's precedent for buffs for exactly these sorts of weapons. Namely the Latron Prime and Paris Prime. Heck, the Mk-1 Braton has been buffed, yet this gun--its Orokin archetype--languishes.  

 

There's no reason this gun shouldn't be given a rework to bring it up to the standards its difficulty to obtain warrant.

[snrd3r]

Am I the only person that thinks Braton Prime is just fine, and other things could stand to be brought down to the same level?

 

Much more than enough damage to be useable after modding (25 base damage turns into 400-ish, come on), and it makes you feel like one hell of a professional, taking heads one burst at a time.

 

Granted, it took me five forma, but I think ideally the power that you get with Boltor Prime now should come at that kind of cost.

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

Am I the only person that thinks Braton Prime is just fine, and other things could stand to be brought down to the same level?

 

Much more than enough damage to be useable after modding (25 base damage turns into 400-ish, come on), and it makes you feel like one hell of a professional, taking heads one burst at a time.

 

Granted, it took me five forma, but I think ideally the power that you get with Boltor Prime now should come at that kind of cost.

Nothing is inherently OP, it's the player's fault for making it OP and then complaining about it. If anything needs to be nerfed, it's T4 missions, because those were obviously designed with OP weapons in mind.

[snrd3r]

Nothing is inherently OP, it's the player's fault for making it OP and then complaining about it. If anything needs to be nerfed, it's T4 missions, because those were obviously designed with OP weapons in mind.

I did say my Braton Prime is fine, not OP. I don't use Boltor Prime - it would be hypocritical of me to use a weapon I think should be nerfed, wouldn't it?

 

You're right about T4 though. It encourages that "must have Frost/Nova/Nekros" sort of discrimination, and that's no fun.

[Lost_Cartographer]

[braton Prime]

Impact 3.3

Puncture 8.8

Slash 18

Accuracy 28.6

Fire Rate 8.8

Critical Chance 12%

Critical Multiplier 2.0x

Status 10%

Magazine 50

Reload 2.2

 

Maybe give 2 more impact or slash.  Maybe give 3% more crit chance or .5x more crit damage, or even buff the RoF, these stats are mostly what I'd at least expect from a rebalanced Braton Prime.

[Sloan441]

The above would be a good template on what to do with the gun (though I'd still prefer more damage and RoF rather than crit or status).

 

My BratonP has six forma in it. It does do a lot of damage--for what it is. But my four forma Buston Prime still blows it away. The sticking point is the BurstonP has the same difficulty to obtain--they're both T3--but on the average does 50% to 75% more damage with even less effort to optimize it. Same thing with the Latron Prime. 

 

Moreover, this isn't even addressing the fact that the BratonP isn't even in the same universe damage-wise as the Boar Prime, Paris Prime, and BoltorP. I don't really expect it to be, but it just highlights how out of phase this weapon is in regards to its prime brethren.  

[(PSN)atpbx]

It needs a buff.

 

Its the best handling and best looking weapon in the game, its got a good reload speed and decent mag size, just absolutely pitiful damage spread across the wrong type of damage and no critical or status chance to make it viable.

 

It could do with a sound effect buff as well, make it sound like an assault rifle.

Edited September 29, 2014 by (PS4)atpbx

[UncommonUnicorn]

It was Scott and he didn't appear thrilled with the idea.

 

The problem fundamentally is not that this gun is old and only does 25 base damage. The problem is it's a T3 gun. It's only available from doing T3, but it's roughly equivalent to a starter weapon you can first build when you hit Jupiter--namely the Karak.

 

Its way over-shadowed by the other T3 primes, yet requires the same level of effort to obtain. On top of that, there's precedent for buffs for exactly these sorts of weapons. Namely the Latron Prime and Paris Prime. Heck, the Mk-1 Braton has been buffed, yet this gun--its Orokin archetype--languishes.  

 

There's no reason this gun shouldn't be given a rework to bring it up to the standards its difficulty to obtain warrant.

 

Uhm... no, because Karak requires mastery 2.

Braton Prime requires mastery 0.

And Braton Prime parts can be traded to a newbie.

Also, half the Braton parts can be found in T2, so one could argue its T2½.

 

Braton Prime is an upgrade to a mediocre weapon, so it stands to reason it is mediocre.

And yes, one can argue that a direct competetor Boltor Praim is OP.

But if we're going down that route than a lot of weapons will appear OP.

One could argue that the new Buzlok is OP as well, after all, it does only 10 DPH less than boltor praim, and a full 20 moar than braton praim.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

Uhm... no, because Karak requires mastery 2.

Braton Prime requires mastery 0.

And Braton Prime parts can be traded to a newbie.

Also, half the Braton parts can be found in T2, so one could argue its T2½.

 

Braton Prime is an upgrade to a mediocre weapon, so it stands to reason it is mediocre.

And yes, one can argue that a direct competetor Boltor Praim is OP.

But if we're going down that route than a lot of weapons will appear OP.

One could argue that the new Buzlok is OP as well, after all, it does only 10 DPH less than boltor praim, and a full 20 moar than braton praim.

 

1- DE has been haphazard with mastery rank. Do you /really/ think the Karak competes with Boltor Prime? That's what you're suggesting with the mastery argument.

 

2- It's still a prime, a weapon that requires players, by default, to grapple with an obnoxious RNG system. The stats don't reflect this.

[UncommonUnicorn]

1- DE has been haphazard with mastery rank. Do you /really/ think the Karak competes with Boltor Prime? That's what you're suggesting with the mastery argument.

Ｏｆ　ｃｏｕｒｓｅ　ｎｏｔ，　Ｉ’ｍ　ｎｏｔ　ｃｌｉｎｉｃａｌｌｙ　ｉｎｓａｎｅ．

Ｔｈａｔ　ｓａｉｄ，　Ｉ　ｄｏ　ｂｅｌｉｅｖｅ　ｔｈａｔ　Ｋａｒａｋ　ｓｈｏｕｌｄ　ｂｅ　ｂｅｔｔｅｒ　ｔｈａｎ　ａ　Ｂｒａｔｏｎ．

Edited September 29, 2014 by UncommonUnicorn

[Sloan441]

It should be better than a Braton. You have to build a Karak. A Braton is available for credits in the marketplace.

 

It should not be better than the Braton Prime (and it arguably is). It should not be better than a gun that requires doing T3 content to construct. That's fighting level 30-40 enemies! You can build a Karak about the time you hit Jupiter--mid teens at worst.

 

It's a glaring discrepancy, made even worse when you consider the Latron Prime has received such buff, just because it used to suck wind compared to other primaries.

[MirageKnight]

It was Scott and he didn't appear thrilled with the idea.

 

That's the distinct impression I got and I suspect one of the reasons why it takes so long for him to address legitimate balance issues that players have  brought up is because he's the balance guy, those are his numbers, and he feels he knows better than anyone else about what to do with those numbers. 

[XxMAGGOTxX]

God no, don't nerf Boltor Prime. For the love of Prime, don't nerf it. We get something that can somewhat hold up to high-end content, and people say it needs a nerf. Probably the same people who think Frost does amazing damage, or that Volt needed a nerf, or that Dragon Nikana needs a nerf. Probably the same people who wanted Soma nerfed, then when it did get nerfed, they cried about it. No. No. No. Since I'm in Steam browser, can't post the gif but you know that office gif of him repeatedly saying no? Yeah, that is relevant right now.

[Lost_Cartographer]

That's the distinct impression I got and I suspect one of the reasons why it takes so long for him to address legitimate balance issues that players have  brought up is because he's the balance guy, those are his numbers, and he feels he knows better than anyone else about what to do with those numbers. 

 

Which makes him the worst guy to put in charge of the numbers if this hunch is actually true.  The primary contributor to a game making too many mistakes is the developer(s) being too proud to believe they could be wrong.  We've been seeing this with just about every MMORPG released since Warcraft.  Wildstar had to be among the worst examples.  Who releases a pay to play anymore?  There are too many quality free to plays for that to be a competitive model, but they felt their game was well worth the fee.  

 

It wasn't.

 

A lot of the balance tweaks people have been asking for literally take a few minutes to do at most.  There isn't some elaborate coding going on when a weapon goes from 7 slash damage to 15 slash damage.  No developer worth their salt would make simple statistic changes so difficult a monkey couldn't do it.  What's going on is a reluctance to tweak numbers at all, except when a fire is lit under someone's butt, which is probably why the MKI Braton and Lato got buffed.  Earth and Mercury are among the lowest level planets, but they bottom out at level 4.  The old Lato and MKI were absolute crap by that point, so they needed the buff to make things tolerable for the new players.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Littleman88