Energy Efficiency And Ability Spammers

[Trenggiling]

Sibarian said the things in redtext

Because quote limit :P

 

"My point is, that turning the issue around does not well enough prove anything substancialand equates to a child saying 'You did it too!' that's all"

So it's just fine and dandy for you to call me selfish (without any sound logic behind the accusation IMO) but it is not okay for me to say the same about you?

Okay -____-

 

"There ARE people who like pushing the limit, me for example.  Until they provide a actual challenge, and I mean without nerfing every warframe/weapon down to where they are pea shooters and cloth armor"

T4 is supposed to be an actual challenge from the start, that's why its the end game.

If you need to go past wave 50+ of the END GAME CONTENT to feel like you may have a chance of possibly being outmatched, then maybe you have a problem.

A good rule of thumb is if the none endless game missions don't provide a challenge then you have a problem.

 

"Infinate scaling abilitys do progress, thats the point.  If you have a static ability that does 1000 damage.  It will only be viable against enemies that say, have 1000-2000 hp, lets say you are in T4, would you Ever consider using a damage ability that will only take 1/20th of a enemies health off?  Or would you rather have a ability that can readily take off the same chunk of health with the same time/preperation? (absorb for instance, what it used to do, all it did was return damage.)

 

How are ability's supposed to progress, I don't see what EVOLUTION you are trying to hint at...  Iron skin... does not progress, World on fire, does not progress, progress means change.  Absorb CHANGED with the environment.  If you were against weak enemies, it would output weak damage, ect."

*sigh*

Okay lets say you have two skills.

Skill 1 deals 100% of an enemy's health as poison damage.

And skill 2 just deals 1000 poison damage.

Hitting a level 1 enemy with skill 1 will deal 100% of its maximum life and hitting a level 100 enemy will deal 100% of its maximum life.

No change = no progression.

Hitting a level 1 enemy with skill 2 will deal 500% of its maximum life and hitting a level 1 enemy with skill 2 will deal 5% of its maximum life.

The game changes, the game progresses.

 

"Cheat level power? Really?  The only powers that I personally believe were "Cheat Level" would be the un-nerfed blessing, and M.Prime before that was nerfed because it litterally did the work for you, you COULD NOT LOSE.  I don't know about you, but I played with Nyx, in Sechura, there ARE times you HAVE TO come out of absorb, there are times where your energy will be low (without using Team energy restores) and that is EVEN with Max efficiency.  Energy syphon gets turned off, so you have to be exaggerating on your account of Absorb."

I admit that "cheat level power" was an exaggeration.

But my point still stands.

Also the "nerf" to M.Prime did almost nothing.

I know, I've extensively used both iterations.

 

"So do we start making endgame hard by turning warframes and weapons into toys? or by giving enemies abilitys to actually interestingly counteract the powers of the warframe and weapons itself?"

Both.

Well not toy level, there is such a thing as middle ground you know.

 

"I like grinding, actually.  It helps relieve stress."

Oh I see now...

You probably don't want to have to think about anything as you play.

I can respect that.

 

"Survival in the void ISN'T easy due to Life support RNG, the enemies might not always be a challenge, but its more a fight with RNG imo, so I say getting to a hour in Survival in the void is a decent accomplishment against RNG."

hahahahaha! Your idea of a accomplishment is to be lucky with RNG?!? hahaha!

That's funny.

Go flip a coin if that's all warframe is to you.

 

"Oh please, I can do that easily barring Life Support RNG.  By starter gear you mean MK1 stuff, right?  Easy enough with a few forma and mods, not really much difference I can even bring Excaliber and do fine..."

Yep unranked MK1 stuff.

Good luck fitting your OP mods onto them.

 

"Every gun fires bullets, lasers, whatever...  It gets boring after a while, all I see the guns as is reskins of the same implement so they do get boring after a while.  Sure there are some fun ones, I actually like the bows, but I was under the impression you were "Anti-ability" "Anti-efficiency" though apparently from your post you aren't."

Well... your not accusing me of anything... and I don't really have anything to say here.

...............okay moving on.........

 

"A lot of people do, especially when in topics like this, so excuse me for per-emtively stating something."

Then why did you say that "NOBODY cares"?

 

"They shouldn't, this is a Co-Op game.  I doubt a football team gets &!$$ed off at one of their own for doing exceedingly well and having both experience and time in the game to know what to do and the physical stamina that comes with it."

Again with the self centered notion of "I don't care, so they shouldn't either." the football analogy seems pointless to me :L

Even if it's silly for them to care, we should respect the fact that they care.

 

"This is funny, I'm not trying to force everything to fit ME.  This whole topic was made by people trying to get the game from what it is (something I like), to fit THEM.  So, if they have the right to put their input in, so do I.  If this game is made to suit many people, then tell that to the OP.  Again, I didn't start this topic, and don't throw that back at me.  The point of me saying that is... if he didn't start the topic, this discussion wouldn't be happening at all to begin with.  Think on that."

You are essentially saying "you shouldn't disagree with me, you should disagree with the circumstances that caused me to voice my opinion"

 

"Again, lies.  It is boring for YOU, why did you keep playing nyx.  Also I highly doubt you stayed solo 2 hours strait, how about you grab some proof next time instead of embellishing a number.

Again with the accusations.

If you don't need proof for any of your claims then why should I be obligated to?

Besides, who goes around taping themselves play a game anyway?

 

You can still run out of energy EVEN at the 75% cap, I know, because I've done the SAME THING, and quit eventually... unlike you, which bored YOURSELF to tears, the game didn't say "You must do this" now did it?"

As for WHY I did it...

Well they had just releases toggle absorb and I wanted to see how far I could get...

It went on and on and on and I was just waiting for it to hit a hard point.

It never did, ever, I held out hope for as long as possible, but when I realized just how indefinitely broken it was, I quit.

 

"The conclusion which you are trying to chuck out the window, is that you CAN run out of energy, especially if you aren't being a one trick pony and using other abilitys and helping your team.  On solo, even you CAN run out of energy, I have the arcane helmet and min/maxed the Hek out of Nyx so do not tell me these lies."

OMG you are still going with that?!?!?

It was super easy to get energy for it.

I was swimming in energy all the time, and I'm baffled that you weren't also.

How long did you spend on each enemy group?

Because all it takes is a few seconds.

 

"Immobility, and not EVERYTHING would die, and they would get up soon enough especially if you were surrounded.  You didn't have THAT much time even if soloing on a Defense mission in Sechura."

The knock down out lasts the cast animation.

You have plenty of time to run somewhere, grab more energy, and start again.

Just how long have you played her?

Because you sound like you had no idea what you were doing.

 

"You've played Nyx?  Are you sure it wasn't some other warframe?"

Much more then you have I bet.

Just how dumb do you want to think I am?

 

"I believe that is Narcolepsy and you should get that looked at.  Absorb was a FUN skill, in my opinion, and you SHOULD see what people whining about a perfectly good ability can do."

No its not Narcolepsy it's an exaggerated expression to convey extreme boredom.

That depends on you definition of "perfectly good ability"

 

"They need to return it back to what it was, instead, though.  And being unaffected by friendly fire IS COUNTER INTUITIVE to the ability.  In ODD's and Defense missions, my friends would just focus fire on me, let enemies surround me and I'd wipe them out with their help.  It is supposed to be a TEAM assisted ability to get the max potential, and now your team just ends up trolling your energy pool."

As in, friendly fire doesn't drain energy. (probably should have made myself clear)

And on an only slightly related note, I just went to T4 void AKA "End Game" and tried out new absorb.

What the heck are you complaining about?

It still works just fine against reasonably leveled enemies (as in not level 50+)

Now I didn't fight with other Tenno so I can't say anything about that, but still.

"I don't want to know you either, seriously, Narcoleptic and unable to see the grander scope of things.

Not to turn this into a competition or anything, but I think my reasons for not wanting to know you are better.

You openly admit to going out of your way to harass people, (because you can't "respect" everyone) you accuse people of things left and right without proof of any kind, you can't play Nyx properly :D, (that is a stupid reason) you contradict yourself, your (as far as I can tell) pretty self centered, you are mean to disabled people, (you think that being Narcoleptic is a valid reason to not like someone) and I think that your probably an elitist. 

Compare that to your reasons for not liking me.

 

Nyx's Absorb as it was... was perfectly balanced, NOBODY was complaining about it... definitely not as much as someone would complain about M.Prime."

Um... I was.

Guess you missed that thread.

And I wasn't so much complaining more of saying "Ya this is totally going to get nerfed (and it should)... just don't over nerf it kk?"

 

"Again, I have had many counter examples.  I have been able to heal plenty of people as oberon, even slow their bleedout, how does slowing THEIR bleedout help ME?  it helps me get to them.  Hollowed ground, how does that help just me?  Anyone stepping on it is immune to procs, there is at least two revamped skills that help the team well enough imo.

I suppose your right on this account...

But I still don't get the same satisfaction playing supporters in this game as I do in others.

 

True once you get 30-60 minutes into T4, unless people are geared to the teeth, they 'might' fall like flies, but still.  Instead of helping someone be awesome, why not BE awesome?"

Because I can be awesome at any time I want.

I want to support people darn it!

But I have given up on warframe supporters, for now at least.

"If they are supposed to be challenging to EVERYONE, then why can I shoot 5 enemies in the face with one arrow and deal 10k+ damage each effectively killing them all?"

 

Because DE has a hard time with numbers, and people like you have stalled any and all rebalancing attempts that approach the side of a nerf.

Seriously, DE needs to master the art of subtle and progressional nerfs/buffs.

It would help the game a lot if they could do what they want without getting persecuted by the community.

 

"Again, the only two... actually... three ability's that trivialized the game were M.Prime, Blessing, and Iron skin, and they all got an appropriate change. How is allowing your team to DRAIN YOU OF ENERGY a appropriate change for Absorbtion?"

It's not, I already said, that was too much.

"It wouldn't be impossible, but it would slowly shift the focus off of abilitys, all because of a few whining people wanting CoD: Warframe edition..."

Abilities are a big part of warframe, and they should be used frequently.

But I do agree that some can be used too frequently

"Exactly, nobody cares about that.  Sure, the leaderboards SHOULD mean something, but people took advantage of the system to the point that they trivialize the game with... what blessing used to be, same with iron skin and M.Prime.  They all got fixed though.  Absorb got BROKEN."

Absorb is only broken in CO-OP games where other Tenno use their brokenly powerful weapons to "help" you.

She can survive up to very high levels still, just not infinite levels.

"Yes, and exactly.  Though I get the feeling from people like the op that they would rather play the game without ability's at all."

Na, the OP said that he was bad with numbers, (and it shows) but I'd like to believe that his heart was in the right place.

 

"Every game can burn someone out, Skyrim, Dark Souls 1 and 2, ect.  I don't know a SINGLE game that eventually does not make someone say ... I'm going to go do something else, after 500 hours.  Well, I have 400 hours in this game atm and still not burned out, I just got to the point of wanting to play something else for a while and came back just fine.  It seems like YOU are forcing yourself to play this game, or maybe you are just not feeling up to it.  My advice, if you haven't already... play something else, this game wont go anywhere, trust me."

You could be right.

This account only has 126 hours total, but my main account has a 974 hours total.

Granted I share that account with my brother... but still.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, this discussion has gotten WAY off topic, and we should take it somewhere else. (or just drop it altogether)

Edited September 8, 2014 by Trenggiling

[jarthur]

going to have to agree you guys got way off topic nice argument tho.

As for the original OP Hell NO!!!! you sir have apparently never been cursed by the RNG gods please comeback and suggest this when you do a solo lvl 25 mobile defense and see more feildron samples than energy orbs using something like a ember or mirage.

I apologize if i sound rude but i think OP's idea is a very bad one. considering i've had the above actually happen

[ShardsSuperior]

You're blaming the moon for a crappy hand of cards.

 

The problem you have is that abilities are spammed way too much. 

 

Humans are creatures of efficiency. There have been thousands of times when players (in all games combined) will go the harder, grindier route to achieve something, when a more fun route exists, but may take longer.

So your choices, in this case, are guns and abilities.

At low levels, abilities will instantly destroy any enemy that comes close, often in a large area. Thus, even though some gunplay might be more fun - it inevitably takes longer, thus people will go the less fun route of just insta-gibbing anything that comes close.

 

However, you can't really nerf this, as at higher levels, enemies become too hard to take on without spamming abilities, almost all of which have been reduced to CC machines and/or survivability measures.s

 

Don't go after Energy Efficiency. This is one of the things that makes Warframe unique. As long as you have energy, you can use abilities - no cooldowns except for some particular skills (Chaos, Silence, etc) - and this is more of a power duration issue than a cooldown. Besides, the abilities make each frame unique, and using them over and over highlights what makes a Valkyr different from a Trinity, Nova, or Mirage.

 

Instead, give bonuses to using guns. Preferably, they should give a little extra affinity for, say, landing a headshot, or killing enemies with a single gun quickly (kinda like the mini-missions, but repeatable, and only for a certain part of the loadout). The reward for doing the task should be high enough to cause people to WANT to use guns, but not feel forced to do so. Maybe a ~15% extra affinity for a headshot (for precision weapons), and perhaps 500 affinity for hitting 5+ enemies with each shot (explosives). Small bonuses, but noticeable. I can't really think of a suitable bonus for automatics, but I think it should be ending with 80%+ accuracy gives a 20% boost to affinity to that gun

 

If executed properly, this should reduce ability spam and set up more tactical appeal, and, as a bonus, this might encourage players to use Snipers as sniper, not shotguns, not wasting an entire Penta round for each enemy, and not just spraying into a crowd willy-nilly with the Soma.

[jarthur]

You're blaming the moon for a crappy hand of cards.

 

The problem you have is that abilities are spammed way too much. 

hmm not sure if this was a response to my post but if it was yes i'm blaming the moon because 250 energy total was a death sentence for my mirage the fact that I found 4 or 5 feildron samples on that same run was funny. and generally i only use enough energy to keep hall of mirrors up and running as defense measure.

if this wasn't in response to my previous post ignore me.

 

on a side note i like the idea of bonus for achieving criteria for extra affinity.

Edited September 8, 2014 by jarthur

[fatpig84]

Turn off my ability to spam abilities (and I strongly favour frames with utility abilities. In fact only time you see me on Nova is on infested and that is presuming I don't pick Booben first), I will just bring my 5 forma guns even more.

 

No loss for me since i am already almost MR 17 and I can take my time to get 18 when it is out.

You will still be behind me in kills and what not.

 

Then what are you going to do ? Demand DE nerf my "op" guns ?

Edited September 8, 2014 by fatpig84

[achromos]

Put my stuff in double quotes below yours... eh.

 

Because quote limit :P

 

"My point is, that turning the issue around does not well enough prove anything substancialand equates to a child saying 'You did it too!' that's all"

So it's just fine and dandy for you to call me selfish (without any sound logic behind the accusation IMO) but it is not okay for me to say the same about you?

Okay -____-

 

"" What I am trying to say, is that it really does not provide a engaging conversation to anyone when it all can be boiled down to little children bickering like that.  I never said you were wrong, though just letting you know. ""

 

"There ARE people who like pushing the limit, me for example.  Until they provide a actual challenge, and I mean without nerfing every warframe/weapon down to where they are pea shooters and cloth armor"

T4 is supposed to be an actual challenge from the start, that's why its the end game.

If you need to go past wave 50+ of the END GAME CONTENT to feel like you may have a chance of possibly being outmatched, then maybe you have a problem.

A good rule of thumb is if the none endless game missions don't provide a challenge then you have a problem.

 

"" I have a problem for not being challenged by 'end game content'?""

 

 

"Infinate scaling abilitys do progress, thats the point.  If you have a static ability that does 1000 damage.  It will only be viable against enemies that say, have 1000-2000 hp, lets say you are in T4, would you Ever consider using a damage ability that will only take 1/20th of a enemies health off?  Or would you rather have a ability that can readily take off the same chunk of health with the same time/preperation? (absorb for instance, what it used to do, all it did was return damage.)

 

How are ability's supposed to progress, I don't see what EVOLUTION you are trying to hint at...  Iron skin... does not progress, World on fire, does not progress, progress means change.  Absorb CHANGED with the environment.  If you were against weak enemies, it would output weak damage, ect."

*sigh*

Okay lets say you have two skills.

Skill 1 deals 100% of an enemy's health as poison damage.

And skill 2 just deals 1000 poison damage.

Hitting a level 1 enemy with skill 1 will deal 100% of its maximum life and hitting a level 100 enemy will deal 100% of its maximum life.

No change = no progression.

Hitting a level 1 enemy with skill 2 will deal 500% of its maximum life and hitting a level 1 enemy with skill 2 will deal 5% of its maximum life.

The game changes, the game progresses.

 

"" That is a different change, this is progress of YOU getting weaker, and your ability's getting weaker and less viable while your guns STILL work well enough.  I've never come into a situation where a arrow to the face didn't solve a problem with an annoying enemy I had encountered.  I guess I can say I do see your point, but its just so backwards. :C ""

 

 

"Cheat level power? Really?  The only powers that I personally believe were "Cheat Level" would be the un-nerfed blessing, and M.Prime before that was nerfed because it litterally did the work for you, you COULD NOT LOSE.  I don't know about you, but I played with Nyx, in Sechura, there ARE times you HAVE TO come out of absorb, there are times where your energy will be low (without using Team energy restores) and that is EVEN with Max efficiency.  Energy syphon gets turned off, so you have to be exaggerating on your account of Absorb."

I admit that "cheat level power" was an exaggeration.

But my point still stands.

Also the "nerf" to M.Prime did almost nothing.

I know, I've extensively used both iterations.

 

"" The Nerf to M.Prime did two major things, up to this point.  1.) you couldn't clear a whole room by killing a nearby enemy.  and 2.) Now people will actually get a slice of the EXP.  Before hand Nova got it all. ""

 

 

"So do we start making endgame hard by turning warframes and weapons into toys? or by giving enemies abilitys to actually interestingly counteract the powers of the warframe and weapons itself?"

Both.

Well not toy level, there is such a thing as middle ground you know.

 

"" I still think that they should add in interesting mechanics instead of watering down warframes, but true. ""

 

"I like grinding, actually.  It helps relieve stress."

Oh I see now...

You probably don't want to have to think about anything as you play.

I can respect that.

 

"" I don't want to think about life, I'd rather think about the game, the best and funnest way to finish a mission, leveling a set of weapons up or chatting with friends. So, it may just be my jaded perspective, but I sense a lot of sarcasm in that 'respect' ""

 

"Survival in the void ISN'T easy due to Life support RNG, the enemies might not always be a challenge, but its more a fight with RNG imo, so I say getting to a hour in Survival in the void is a decent accomplishment against RNG."

hahahahaha! Your idea of a accomplishment is to be lucky with RNG?!? hahaha!

That's funny.

Go flip a coin if that's all warframe is to you.

 

""Warframe in Survival is ALL RNG,  Getting Loot from voids is, All RNG, What the mobs drop... RNG.  So, for this game?  Beating the RNG is a small accomplishment but it still is, it's something to be happy about that the game actually does NOT stop spawning enemies randomly even if you are going from room to room so the spawns don't get stale... I've had that happen, no enemies, Lotus didn't want to drop me any more life support and I had to watch it sink lower and lower. ""

 

 

"Oh please, I can do that easily barring Life Support RNG.  By starter gear you mean MK1 stuff, right?  Easy enough with a few forma and mods, not really much difference I can even bring Excaliber and do fine..."

Yep unranked MK1 stuff.

Good luck fitting your OP mods onto them.

 

"" I have a feeling you are trolling.  How about you show a video of yourself, or ANYONE using MK1 stuff that is unranked to do 'end-game survival content' please do, I doubt it would end well without 'any' mods. ""

 

"Every gun fires bullets, lasers, whatever...  It gets boring after a while, all I see the guns as is reskins of the same implement so they do get boring after a while.  Sure there are some fun ones, I actually like the bows, but I was under the impression you were "Anti-ability" "Anti-efficiency" though apparently from your post you aren't."

Well... your not accusing me of anything... and I don't really have anything to say here.

...............okay moving on.........

 

""Because I can be agreeable sometimes... yea.""

 

"A lot of people do, especially when in topics like this, so excuse me for per-emtively stating something."

Then why did you say that "NOBODY cares"?

 

""Because nobody really should, do you get a prize for caring?  What does it really matter? ""

 

"They shouldn't, this is a Co-Op game.  I doubt a football team gets &!$$ed off at one of their own for doing exceedingly well and having both experience and time in the game to know what to do and the physical stamina that comes with it."

Again with the self centered notion of "I don't care, so they shouldn't either." the football analogy seems pointless to me :L

Even if it's silly for them to care, we should respect the fact that they care.

 

"" Sure, again I'll respect that fact.  Though they should respect the fact that I play this game too, as well as other people... if you look at some of the people in this post alone (trust me, they all didn't raise their hands and decide to post... some don't care what goes on in the forums) that I'm not alone, this isn't a one-sided issue.  So just because I respect that fact, does not mean that I have to like it, or side with them or hold their hand and tell them that it will be alright.  Go ahead and call me self-centered, because from my perspective, you aren't much better. ""

 

"This is funny, I'm not trying to force everything to fit ME.  This whole topic was made by people trying to get the game from what it is (something I like), to fit THEM.  So, if they have the right to put their input in, so do I.  If this game is made to suit many people, then tell that to the OP.  Again, I didn't start this topic, and don't throw that back at me.  The point of me saying that is... if he didn't start the topic, this discussion wouldn't be happening at all to begin with.  Think on that."

You are essentially saying "you shouldn't disagree with me, you should disagree with the circumstances that caused me to voice my opinion"

 

"" No, what I'm saying is that you wouldn't have to disagree with me if the OP didn't post.  You are free to Disagree with me, hate me, whatever, but my opinion still stands. ""

 

"Again, lies.  It is boring for YOU, why did you keep playing nyx.  Also I highly doubt you stayed solo 2 hours strait, how about you grab some proof next time instead of embellishing a number.

Again with the accusations.

If you don't need proof for any of your claims then why should I be obligated to?

Besides, who goes around taping themselves play a game anyway?

 

"" What do 'you' want me to prove?  You haven't asked, so really you don't have grounds to accuse me of 'not needing to provide proof' why not ask me for legitimate proof of something and if I refuse then this statement can stand.  Also... I detect a hint of sarcasm with the whole 'taping themselves playing a video game'  because... Youtube, Twitch, Gameanyone... they all exist and thrive. ""

 

You can still run out of energy EVEN at the 75% cap, I know, because I've done the SAME THING, and quit eventually... unlike you, which bored YOURSELF to tears, the game didn't say "You must do this" now did it?"

As for WHY I did it...

Well they had just releases toggle absorb and I wanted to see how far I could get...

It went on and on and on and I was just waiting for it to hit a hard point.

It never did, ever, I held out hope for as long as possible, but when I realized just how indefinitely broken it was, I quit.

 

""No comment.""

 

 

 

"The conclusion which you are trying to chuck out the window, is that you CAN run out of energy, especially if you aren't being a one trick pony and using other abilitys and helping your team.  On solo, even you CAN run out of energy, I have the arcane helmet and min/maxed the Hek out of Nyx so do not tell me these lies."

OMG you are still going with that?!?!?

It was super easy to get energy for it.

I was swimming in energy all the time, and I'm baffled that you weren't also.

How long did you spend on each enemy group?

Because all it takes is a few seconds.

 

"" Sometimes enemies aren't always hitting you, and sometimes they aren't going to be properly positioned, and half the time for them to damage you an appropriate amount in lower levels [if fully relying on absorb, as I did for my own testing in Sechura which lasted up to wave 60]  I had to dip down into my endless reserves of 'team energy restores' and yes, this is with a min/maxed efficiency/Range build.""

 

"Immobility, and not EVERYTHING would die, and they would get up soon enough especially if you were surrounded.  You didn't have THAT much time even if soloing on a Defense mission in Sechura."

The knock down out lasts the cast animation.

You have plenty of time to run somewhere, grab more energy, and start again.

Just how long have you played her?

Because you sound like you had no idea what you were doing.

 

""Read the comment above""

 

"You've played Nyx?  Are you sure it wasn't some other warframe?"

Much more then you have I bet.

Just how dumb do you want to think I am?

 

"" I will refuse to answer, and try to respect you :3 ""

 

"I believe that is Narcolepsy and you should get that looked at.  Absorb was a FUN skill, in my opinion, and you SHOULD see what people whining about a perfectly good ability can do."

No its not Narcolepsy it's an exaggerated expression to convey extreme boredom.

That depends on you definition of "perfectly good ability"

 

"" A perfectly good ability is ALWAYS viable in every situation to assist, and aid.  Like... say, Mind control still, or Radial Blind, or Snowglobe, or Reckoning/Renewal, or Invisibility, or Banshees Sonar. ""

 

"They need to return it back to what it was, instead, though.  And being unaffected by friendly fire IS COUNTER INTUITIVE to the ability.  In ODD's and Defense missions, my friends would just focus fire on me, let enemies surround me and I'd wipe them out with their help.  It is supposed to be a TEAM assisted ability to get the max potential, and now your team just ends up trolling your energy pool."

As in, friendly fire doesn't drain energy. (probably should have made myself clear)

And on an only slightly related note, I just went to T4 void AKA "End Game" and tried out new absorb.

What the heck are you complaining about?

It still works just fine against reasonably leveled enemies (as in not level 50+)

Now I didn't fight with other Tenno so I can't say anything about that, but still.

 

""Friendly fire not depleting energy would be wonderful, I haven't tried the new absorb for more then a day, getting annoyed with people draining my energy worse than ancients just to troll me even after I explained the change...

 

As far as 'reasonably leveled'  Oh please, those are WEAK enemies :C (1-49).""

 

"I don't want to know you either, seriously, Narcoleptic and unable to see the grander scope of things.

Not to turn this into a competition or anything, but I think my reasons for not wanting to know you are better.

You openly admit to going out of your way to harass people, (because you can't "respect" everyone) you accuse people of things left and right without proof of any kind, you can't play Nyx properly :D, (that is a stupid reason) you contradict yourself, your (as far as I can tell) pretty self centered, you are mean to disabled people, (you think that being Narcoleptic is a valid reason to not like someone) and I think that your probably an elitist. 

Compare that to your reasons for not liking me.

 

""  My reasons for not liking you are actually reasonable, I can respect people but I will never baby them.  You say Harass, I say Blunt.  I'm a blunt person, I will say what I want, when I want, If i think it is prudent.  as far as 'not being able to play Nyx properly...'  Not everyone is MLG pro like you, so cool your jets.  I do think about myself a lot because I matter to myself, does that mean nobody else matters?  No.  I'm self-reliant, and happy about that.  As far as being mean to disabled people... my comment about Narcolepsy, that was a bit of sarcasm.  :)""

 

Nyx's Absorb as it was... was perfectly balanced, NOBODY was complaining about it... definitely not as much as someone would complain about M.Prime."

Um... I was.

Guess you missed that thread.

And I wasn't so much complaining more of saying "Ya this is totally going to get nerfed (and it should)... just don't over nerf it kk?"

 

""Yes, I did and you know DE... They ALMOST always overnerf something... Remember frost?""

 

"Again, I have had many counter examples.  I have been able to heal plenty of people as oberon, even slow their bleedout, how does slowing THEIR bleedout help ME?  it helps me get to them.  Hollowed ground, how does that help just me?  Anyone stepping on it is immune to procs, there is at least two revamped skills that help the team well enough imo.

I suppose your right on this account...

But I still don't get the same satisfaction playing supporters in this game as I do in others.

 

""  I do wish that there was a more intuitive (? ... substantial?" way to support, like someone would do in a MMO Raid, but... this just isn't the game for that currently.  Maybe in the future, right?  If this change to oberon is anything. ""

 

True once you get 30-60 minutes into T4, unless people are geared to the teeth, they 'might' fall like flies, but still.  Instead of helping someone be awesome, why not BE awesome?"

Because I can be awesome at any time I want.

I want to support people darn it!

But I have given up on warframe supporters, for now at least.

 

"" Thats good, be awesome, I can be too.  Now, my response would probably be similar to my last one for the rest so... yea. ""

 

"If they are supposed to be challenging to EVERYONE, then why can I shoot 5 enemies in the face with one arrow and deal 10k+ damage each effectively killing them all?"

 

Because DE has a hard time with numbers, and people like you have stalled any and all rebalancing attempts that approach the side of a nerf.

Seriously, DE needs to master the art of subtle and progressional nerfs/buffs.

It would help the game a lot if they could do what they want without getting persecuted by the community.

 

"" I prefer to see myself as someone who does not want to see the game nerfed so hard on accident that it scares away all of the original fans, so yes, they do need to master the art of Subtle and progression nerfs/buffs to help themselves see EXACTLY when the breaking point is, and what is the acceptable limits by people who play the game by viewing feedback or testing themselves if they care to. ""

 

"Again, the only two... actually... three ability's that trivialized the game were M.Prime, Blessing, and Iron skin, and they all got an appropriate change. How is allowing your team to DRAIN YOU OF ENERGY a appropriate change for Absorbtion?"

It's not, I already said, that was too much.

 

"" That's good that we got this strait then.  You might not be a horrible person after all :) ""

 

 

"It wouldn't be impossible, but it would slowly shift the focus off of abilitys, all because of a few whining people wanting CoD: Warframe edition..."

Abilities are a big part of warframe, and they should be used frequently.

But I do agree that some can be used too frequently

 

"" I agree that some abilitys 'can' be used too frequently, but does that include people just 'spamming abilitys... like Hallowed Ground in the end just out of boredom or to ditz around because they are waiting for the people lagging behind? or whatever? ""

 

"Exactly, nobody cares about that.  Sure, the leaderboards SHOULD mean something, but people took advantage of the system to the point that they trivialize the game with... what blessing used to be, same with iron skin and M.Prime.  They all got fixed though.  Absorb got BROKEN."

Absorb is only broken in CO-OP games where other Tenno use their brokenly powerful weapons to "help" you.

She can survive up to very high levels still, just not infinite levels.

 

"" I guess I'll have to try that, my few bad experiences kinda made me tempted to toss her off the roster slot on my Loadout bar though, but she still had mind control and chaos at least so... ""

 

"Yes, and exactly.  Though I get the feeling from people like the op that they would rather play the game without ability's at all."

Na, the OP said that he was bad with numbers, (and it shows) but I'd like to believe that his heart was in the right place.

 

"" His heart... was a little too far to the extreme, no... I'll have to differ on this opinion.  I absolutely am at odds with his opinion, though its good he had one, I just will never support it. ""

 

"Every game can burn someone out, Skyrim, Dark Souls 1 and 2, ect.  I don't know a SINGLE game that eventually does not make someone say ... I'm going to go do something else, after 500 hours.  Well, I have 400 hours in this game atm and still not burned out, I just got to the point of wanting to play something else for a while and came back just fine.  It seems like YOU are forcing yourself to play this game, or maybe you are just not feeling up to it.  My advice, if you haven't already... play something else, this game wont go anywhere, trust me."

You could be right.

This account only has 126 hours total, but my main account has a 974 hours total.

Granted I share that account with my brother... but still.

 

"" So... let's cut that 974 in half, just being fair, and stack it with 126. 613 hours total, to my 400.  Impressive, though still nothing compared to my 1000+ hours alone on skyrim.  Those mods are crazy... and yea this is offtopic now.  Sorry OP! D: ""

 

 

Anyway, this discussion has gotten WAY off topic, and we should take it somewhere else. (or just drop it altogether)

 

""Tell ya what, if you want to continue any part of this discussion, feel free to PM me.  I don't actually hate you, hopefully you don't hate me.  It's just a difference in opinions and hopefully we can have a decent debate about said opinions elsewhere.""

[LascarCapable]

Please stay on topic and calm down with the argument fight. That discussion has to stay convenient.

[FitzSimmons]

seriously? im having hard time spam volt's speed and electric shield to defense myself with rank 7 blind rage even with 75% efficiency !!!! and - 60% duration !!!! its not all abilities spammers youre talking about, but those who spam 4th ability. 

[Trenggiling]

Please stay on topic and calm down with the argument fight. That discussion has to stay convenient.

I am calm :L

 

""Tell ya what, if you want to continue any part of this discussion, feel free to PM me.  I don't actually hate you, hopefully you don't hate me.  It's just a difference in opinions and hopefully we can have a decent debate about said opinions elsewhere.""

Sounds good to me.

(And no, I don't hate you either :)

[warthogger14]

Blah I get streamline early on all my accounts blah

Just because YOU get it early doesn't mean many others do, so it shouldn't be nerfed based on the potential drop of rng cause then by that logic all mods should be nerfed, and making streamline only 10% makes it worth virtually nothing

[warthogger14]

geez what a long arguement I missed :L

[IfritKajiTora]

I felt it bad too at the beggining but it isn't that bad.
But better could be to add timers for skills cooldowns to not spam skills or one skill but to use all of them, many frames have the skills that are useless vs one of their skills, Example Frost Ice wave or SnowGlobe that cost 50 energy vs 2x freeze that one cost 25 energy........Freeze is absolutly ridiculous weak :/.   But ofcourse no one want Cooldowns in that game.

I maked a thread about Damage to Skill damage, the more damage we make the more skills will get damage, so for example if we don't use Slash dash for a several minutes and maked a total 500k damage with Guns or melee so with Slash dash we will make 5600 damage and the damage will be reseted so if we use one more time slash dash we will make only 500 damage just a normal damage of the skill, so to make another more damage we need to make some damage to enemies to gain more power. It could keep people away from spaming But I was just ridiculed.

So as you can see people just love to spam skills, go play some Path Of Exile that is a huge Spamming game. You can have 7 skills but for what? You get 6 buffs and one skill, why? Mana regen buff, health regend buff, damage skill buff, buffed evade, armor buff, elemental reduction buff and that One skill, and they only press right mouse click to attack. Excelent game : D. If you try to have more skills you are even more weak. This is the best tactics in that game one skill and all the rest buffs.

[jarthur]

I maked a thread about Damage to Skill damage, the more damage we make the more skills will get damage, so for example if we don't use Slash dash for a several minutes and maked a total 500k damage with Guns or melee so with Slash dash we will make 5600 damage and the damage will be reseted so if we use one more time slash dash we will make only 500 damage just a normal damage of the skill, so to make another more damage we need to make some damage to enemies to gain more power. It could keep people away from spaming But I was just ridiculed.

 You can have 7 skills but for what? You get 6 buffs and one skill, why? 

while you should not have been ridiculed for your idea, I will say that your idea is somewhat clunky from a practical view point mainly due to the fact that waiting that long between skill use is very inefficient energy wise and enemies don't have that much health. from a theoretical view point the idea isn't bad particularly for long survival/defense missions where enemies actually have that much health.

 

as for the path of exile part 6 buffs 1 skill is not the best idea for normal enemies when you solo due to range and melee enemies hitting you at the same time 5 buffs(health, shield/armor/elemental, mana, evade, damage) 1 melee, 1 range works better for me, however 6 buffs 1 skill is probably the best set up for bosses.