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Limbo Feedback By Einde : The Perfect Exemple Of Good Ideas Spoiled By A Bad Design.

LascarCapable

By LascarCapable,
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LascarCapable

LascarCapable

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I just bought the Limbo pack today, and I has to say that I am part of the players that were really disappointed by him. In my case, not only disappointed, but also very worried about how the warframe will be used... So well, as the title may hint you, my feedback will be pretty negative...

 

 

First of all, I'll start with the good things. I have to really compliment the work of the animation team here, because they really did a nice job when it's about Limbo animation. There's a really charming personnality given to the Warframe either you took the agile stance or the noble stance, giving the impression of a crazy gentleman. I sometimes surprised myself shouting "SHAZAM !" while casting cataclysm or other things. The overall look of the frame is also not that bad at all in my opinion, the hatted frame is a kinda original concept... I guess it's a matter of taste or being open minded.

 

If Limbo is a really lovely character by himself, I have to say that his skillset is just the worst I've ever seen so far. And I really hardly give bad opinions like that. I won't say that Limbo is overall useless, he may have his niche, but the way everything is done is just making Limbo both extremely hard to play with (both as a team mate and a Limbo user), and really not as efficient than he looks. Limbo also opens a whole new level of trolling that may quickly give him a very bad reputation among the community. The reason is due to the way Banishing works.

 

 

The principle of banihsing is to immune the target to all kind of damage dealt from unbannished players, while unbannished players will be immune to all damage dealt from banished players. The main issue is that using banish takes time, and you better have to kill everything around rather than banishing every target, entering into the rift and then taking out everyone inside. With the first ability, the fact that you can only target one entity at once make it just worse. Also, banishing ennemies will quickly &!$$ off players that tries to target the ennemy you intend to banish (especially for those who likes sniping). Since banished ennemies can't be hit unless you are also banished, banishing a whole crowd in front of you with cataclysm while your friend tries to Penta it is just an awful idea. Of course, you can also use banish only to take out of the field powerful targets, but there's just a lot of skills that are better for that. I manly think about Frost's freeze, and a lot of CC abilities that can just disable everything around, and not only the strong dude. In short, a CC/stun skill will be just way more useful than banishing ennemies, because you can beat up the guy while he's unable to do anything. Actually the really good thing I am able to think about, is to be able to play as a decoy while in Rift Walk to attract enemy fire to you. Efficient tanking tactic.

 

However, banishing may work better when it's about saving other players from death, making ennemies unable to harm someone is kinda lovely when it's about saving a knocked down or swarmed teammate, or just protect the whole squad. Players into the rift also gain two energy per second and their skills are still able to affect unbanished enemies. But there's still another really bad thing here : banished teammates can't pick up items, and just can't harm ennemies with classic ways. It wouldn't be a problem if it's used wisely, but in the hand of a troll, better exiting the mission and hope to not be bothered by the same guy. Also, last problem with the banishment, there's no real reward about banishing ennemies into the rift, except some damage dealt when targets enters the rift. The rift should buff ourselves while debuffing ennemies in my opinion : buffing ally speed and firing speed while decreasing enemy speed and firing speed would be just perfect in my opinion. Finally, there may be also a nasty bug when it's about AoE attacks : Grineer Bombard can still damage you while inside the rift. Not sure if it's a bug though, but I don't think that this is intended.

 

 

Now, let's look the whole skillset.

 

- Banish : banish one target, friend or foe.

- Rift Walk : banish yourself.

- Rift Surge : more damage dealt to banished ennemies.

- Cataclysm : create a shrinking AoE. Everyone ine the AoE is banished.

 

Banish and Rift Walk just does the same thing, but one only targets yourself while the other one targets everyone else. Wouldn't there be a way to fuse those two skills together ? Fusing Banish and Rift Walk opens the possibility to create a new skill for Limbo, which would be welcomed.

 

Rift Surge is just extremely hard to use. First it's expensive (75 energy without efficiency mods), second it only works on banished ennemies, third it does less than a lot of third skill that we have. Making it able to target non-rifted ennemies (but with a reduced bonus) would be welcomed, as well as some other tweaks.

 

Cataclysm should be a toogleable skill in my opinion, just to allow players to move their bubble elsewhere. Targets inside the cataclysm are still able to move at full speed, and this makes the job harder. That's why I'm really for a speed debuff for banished ennemies.

 

 

To conclude, let me sum up all the good and bad points of the frame :

 

Good points :

- Very charming, lovely animations.

- Overall nice looking and original concepts.

- Another frame that allows you to replenish your energy.

 

Bad points :

- Extremely hard to use.

- Banishing is not rewarding enough.

- Extremely suited for trolling.

- The time you spend for banishing everything, you would already have finished the work with a simple CC ability.

 

In short, I really love the character that Limbo is, but his skillset makes him unenjoyable to play with for me. The few time I tried Limbo, I just made the work harder for myself and also my whole squad. In my opinion, that Warframe needs quickly a rework.

 

Thanks for reading. It's not always that I give a negative feedback, so I hope devs won't hate me after that. :p Once again, kudos to the animation team for the awesome stances, because they really look great.

Edited by Einde
Added some nice information.
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Skullriot

Skullriot

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Too much trolling, and not to mention the shaders that are applied while banished just make my screen practically black. 

 

I was trolled earlier already during a mission, was banished for practically the entire mission so I just made breakfast and ate it... I said if they wanted THAT BADLY, they can have it, I don't need a headache this early in the morning. 

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Egg_Chen

Egg_Chen

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Yup, first comment I read from a Limbo user was about how much fun he had trolling others.

 

I hate the design, but accept that is personal opinion, and he has a love it or hate it visual.

.. but the skills just scream rework ASAP.

The level of trolling potential is enough to make me wish for both a Switch Teleport Loki and Bounce Vauban instead.

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Hixlysss

Hixlysss

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This, I have to honestly agree with. Limbo is a awesome frame, if you're playing with other limbos or other warframes that use those powers. Keep in mind, Rift Surge only does bonus damage to enemies, if you are in riftwalk. So you either have to use riftwalk, or cataclysm, for rift surge to even be useful. How messed up is that?

 

As for somehow combining Banish and Riftwalk, I might have an idea. Charging powers. You tap it once, it does banish, press and hold, it does riftwalk or banishes the enemy and you.

 

But the biggest thing I have with Limbo, he doesn't play well with other warframes who use weapons. Powers work fine on banished enemies, but guns and such do not. And banishing team mates for upwards of 30+ seconds where than can do nothing, and let's just say they were meleeing enemies and you accidentally got them, they are now out of combat for 30+ seconds and stuck there.

 

Banish should also perhaps be a AOE power, and have a DOT instead of just a straight "Does 500 damage on hit" thing. Same thing with Cataclysm, along side cataclysm being toggleable. If Cataclysm worked more like Mirage's ultimate, it would be better. Toggle it on, it does a DOT to anything in it, and then you toggle it off it goes BOOM for some damage or some such.

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LascarCapable

LascarCapable

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Great post and really summarizes all the good and bad points about him and why he's generally weak.

 

Do you do this for all new warframes?

 

Nope, Limbo is the first frame where I did a post like that. Surely because despite all of his flaws, I really like him (those animations ! SWAG OVERLOAD !).

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Shifted

Shifted

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Interesting feedback.

 

Even though I had not played him yet, I had a completely opposite opinion about him (hate looks, like skillset), but you brought some valid points.

 

I still think in hands of a skilled player he could be an interesting frame, but the trolling potential is definitely too high.

 

PS: Might wanna break down that little wall of text in the post, was kind of hard to read through that.

Edited by Shifted
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LascarCapable

LascarCapable

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Interesting feedback.

 

Even though I had not playedhim yet, I had a completely opposite opinion of him (hate looks, like skillset) but you brought some valid points.

 

I still think in hands of a skilled player he could be an interesting frame, but the trolling potential is definitely too high.

 

PS: Might  wanna break down that little wall of text in the post, was kind of hard to read through that.

 

You might be right here, the frame is just out since yesterday, so it may be too soon to say if the frame is really that bad.

 

I'll try to make my post a bit more readable. :p

 

 

 

You should definitely do it for all warframes! I'd read the S#&$ out of it

 

Thanks. I may try indeed. :p

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R34LM

R34LM

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Cataclysm is very underwhelming. Enemies just run out of it when they get the chance. Too often I found myself going into rift walk to protect myself from a crap ton of enemies (now it's at least 20 in one room at saturn) then spamming banish to pick each enemy off. There is no way he can really make himself effective for large groups; he's really only good at isolating targets, which is just a poor skillset for this game when you are surrounded.

 

I agree with the OP's suggestions; at least make Cataclysm more of an effective CC so that Limbo can handle himself in large groups.

Edited by R34LM
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R34LM

R34LM

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I added a small thing to the main post : actually the only good think that I may point from Limbo's powers is to be able to play like a decoy while using rift walk, opening some tanking possibilities. But that's all.

Rift walk is a very powerful but balanced ability to be sure. It allows you to reposition yourself in a harsh fight. But, again, I have always had trouble with large crowds. I stick a bubble over them and ay "now what? there is still a lot of dudes and I'll need to go into that mini arena to get rid of them, since I can't rely on the abilitie's damage".

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Skullriot

Skullriot

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You know, if a dev has to come in here and tell us how to play the frame, it's kinda like an artist or a songwriter telling us the meaning of their work. 

 

The abilities are just too dependent on one another to be effective in super fast paced engagements, and people aren't even really using them for a lot more than just "Stick everyone in the void" 

 

I have seen a handful of people just trolling with the one ability, or spamming 4, even though it just feels like... well... basically the same thing as if it werent there, except you cant pick up anything inside the bubble. 

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Yaerion

Yaerion

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To conclude, let me sum up all the good and bad points of the frame :

 

Good points :

- Very charming, lovely animations.

- Overall nice looking and original concepts.

 

Bad points :

- Extremely hard to use.

- Banishing is not rewarding enough.

- Extremely suited for trolling.

- The time you spend for banishing everything, you would already have finished the work with a simple CC ability.

Agreed. Remind me of Nekros when he was an early awakened.

I want to post my review too, now...

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LascarCapable

LascarCapable

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You know, if a dev has to come in here and tell us how to play the frame, it's kinda like an artist or a songwriter telling us the meaning of their work. 

 

The abilities are just too dependent on one another to be effective in super fast paced engagements, and people aren't even really using them for a lot more than just "Stick everyone in the void" 

 

I have seen a handful of people just trolling with the one ability, or spamming 4, even though it just feels like... well... basically the same thing as if it werent there, except you cant pick up anything inside the bubble. 

 

That's why Limbo is kinda awful IMO. Even when you don't want to, you troll your teammates.

 

Just ended a mobile defense mission with Limbo, I think my friends had an hard time with me. :/

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Skullriot

Skullriot

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That's why Limbo is kinda awful IMO. Even when you don't want to, you troll your teammates.

 

Just ended a mobile defense mission with Limbo, I think my friends had an hard time with me. :/

Yeah. This frame was made to remove threats from the area, to isolate the big guys, and allow time to deal with them, instead of being gang beat by a whole group. 

 

Instead what you find is that enemies die too fast to really be effective, or you have to spam the ability(ies) so much that you just don't have the energy to make a difference. 

 

I will credit the team this, I do LOVE the model for the frame, and the abilities look snazzy, but the dark tinting is just too severe, makes everything one big black smudge. It's a good base, but it needs a lot more QA and tweaking. I don't get how you wouldn't expect someone to troll on the internet... that's like.. common sense these days. 

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LascarCapable

LascarCapable

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The more I think, the more I wonder if the idea of the banishment is really something that we could keep. Maybe there's no way to implement right Limbo's rift mechnanic, and it has to be scrapped. :/

 

I wouldn't go too far and say that Limbo has to be scrapped totally though. After all, I am not a dev, and it's too soon to say that anyway. There may be some good ways to implement that. It has to be.

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tris1

tris1

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I've only played the frame for a about 4 matches I would say overall it's a gd job except for certain skills

Banish: it looks cool and does its job however it's also a grefing tool and only one target

I would change it so it banishes targets that come into contact with the floor

Rift walk: I love it's a gd deffence skill and u can stop the toggle

3rd ability: I just don't think it's gd to really on another ability to make it useful.

I would make it so it creates a wall that takes all bullets and then opens another wall and let's the bullets shot out of that so it relies on enemy.

Fire. Energy drain by time

4th:can't comment have not used yet

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Skullriot

Skullriot

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I feel like the mechanic just has too much power to alter other players. Bounce and switch teleport are more annoying than anything, but this is disabling. 

 

Bounce just pops you into the air

 

Switch tele just swaps your positions, and is probably just as annoying to use as it is to be the subject of, considering you have to actively work at trolling with it

 

but banish is a point, click, and done for the duration. Disabled. It's too much power to put in the hands of internet anons.

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Cleesus

Cleesus

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I have to say that Limbo and his abilities are very underwhelming especially considering the potential a frame with void/phase powers has.

 

Banishing someone or something at the moment doesnt serve much of a purpose. Feels really niche and gimmicky. Yes you can potentially separate some problem enemies but what is it purpose beyond that?

 

 

The first skill being single target only hurts its usefulness a lot. The first and 2nd skill could probably be combined, also make it aoe and let you enter and exit whenever you want. 

 

3rd skill is kinda like accelerant and the problem many have with it, its a skill to just buff the other abilities and doesnt really do anything on its on. Why cant the phase/banishment have that ability built in? it would free up space to give Limbo something also.

 

4th ability is okay I guess.

 

 

Overall I was expecting much more deph and creativity from Limbo because of all the creative and interesting power suggestions we had.

 

He does have some very nice animations. The visuals on phase shifting however just make it seem like the only difference between phase shifting and not being in one is just a gray filter being on your screen and some energy coloring your frame.

 

Also the problem that some of the powers give players the ability to grief/troll others

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