Limbo Feedback By Einde : The Perfect Exemple Of Good Ideas Spoiled By A Bad Design.

[Azamagon]

Thought a little more about how to make the existing abilities more useful. They all just really need MORE effects added to them, rather than have them merged:

 

* Any enemy inside the rift: Suffers minor finisher DoT, moves and attacks 50% slower, suffers 50% more damage taken

* Limbo or any ally inside the rift: Moves, reloads, casts, shoots and melees 25% faster as well as regens energy (and possibly regens a bit of health and stamina too)

 

^ Those really ought to be the passives for the whole rift-mechanic to be worthwhile in the first place. Then the abilities can get their own buffs to make them more fun and useful:

 

BANISH - When cast on an enemy, it deals heavy FINISHER damage, knocks it down and sends it to the rift if in the physical plane, or to the physical plane if it's in the rift. Whenever Banish is cast on an enemy (wether to send it to the rift or to the physical plane), all enemies already in the rift (be it by Banish or Cataclysm) suffer a moderate amount of instant damage too! This gives it AoE in a new way, synergizing particularly well with Cataclysm. Note: Casting Banish on an enemy inside Cataclysm does nothing but cause damage, since it is instantly returned to the rift anyway due to Cataclysm's sphere. So combo Cataclysm + spam Banish for serious AoE hurting!

Allies that are banished can exit whenever they want by pressing the action-button (default being X), due to not being able to carry stuff in there anyway. Some kind of text should indicate this for the ally, but it shouldn't be too obstructive either.

 

RIFT WALK - Limbo swaps between the rift and physical plane as normal, but also briefly grants him a big boost in movementspeed and attackspeed (melee and range). Buff is granted regardless of the rift entry or exit.

 

RIFT SURGE - All enemies (and their projectiles!) in the Rift are paused (like if frozen) and suffer even more damage taken. All enemies (and their projectiles) in the physical plane within X meters of Limbo are slowed down by 50% (this physical-world slowdown happens no matter wether Limbo is in the Rift or not).

 

CATACLYSM - Like now, summons a slowly imploding rift-sphere. Damage is now a heavy instant finisher damage if an enemy touches the sphere (only happens once per cast) and then a quite heavy finisher DoT for as long as they are inside the sphere. Pulls enemies in the sphere towards the middle (not ragdolling, but gliding them in slowly). Banished allies (or if they simply go inside the Cataclysm Sphere) will be able to interact with the enemy and vice versa.

If Limbo casts Cataclysm again while it is active, he closes it near instantly, allowing for it to be recast right away.

[Darkmoone1]

CATACLYSM -

If Limbo casts Cataclysm again while it is active, he closes it near instantly, allowing for it to be recast right away.

I highly support this as it would give alot more versatility to a frame that should be versatile. 

Edited October 29, 2014 by Darkmoone1

[Harbingie]

Amen.

[Coatduck]

Okay so I think the biggest thing about limbo is that he is radically different from every other frame, with exception to Loki. All his abilities have amazing synergy with all his other abilities, and people don't use that enough. When I play limbo I end up having at least 3 abilities running at a time, all 4 when you get up to higher teir. I think most people don't understand how that works. The thing about limbo is using one ability alone, or even just phasing enemies while rift walking is not how you effectively play him. Perhaps at low level sure.

However, I have taken him on multiple 60+ minute t4 survivals where we've only had to leave because the game bugged out, keeping alive a Vauban, a Loki, and a Nekros all while dealing damage myself and running off to pop capsules. Yes it was hard. Yes if I pushed the wrong button I was dead literally before my finger left the key. No, he's not supposed to be easy to use. He is probably the most unforgiving frame in the entire game. But if you play him right, and don't mess up, you can just keep fighting until your fingers turn blue (And trust me, they will if you're doing it right)

Limbo works strangely, in that apart from some damage, which is really only good at low level, all his abilities affect you and your team in the same way they affect the enemy. It may seem counterproductive, but really what that says is that limbo's strengths are in the players strategy, and not simply pushing a button to receive damage/cc. You have to think outside the box to use limbo, and that's something most people completely miss.

Limbo does not need a rework, and if they did it would destroy him on a fundamental level. A few tweaks? Sure. Casting times are still a little slow, and I think players should have the ability to remove themselves from the rift plane. Other than that, if you don't like it, if he's too hard to use for you, if he doesn't fit your play style, no one is forcing you to play him. Those of us who get how he works understand that in the right hands he could be the most powerful frame in the game realize that all these changes people are suggesting would just nerf him into the ground. AOE banish? You mean instant death at high teir. Making Rift Surge a straight damage ability? Useless when enemies get higher level.

As for trolling? Yes. His abilities can be annoying when used improperly. So can Switch Teleport and Bounce. If you give the players the ability to leave the rift plane it's no longer a problem.

Edit: I would also find Cataclysm being recastable perfectly acceptable, although I would worry that it would be a little bit too powerful. I'd love to be wrong on that though, it's quite annoying to have to wait for it to close if you want to move it, I'd rather just blow the energy and move on.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Coatduck

[Somedude1000]

I played with a guy who had Limbo in a public game once. No more public games, ever.

 

 

 

At least not without slitting my wrists of course.

 

As for playing Limbo... The lack of power carriers on his systems mission has made me unable to ever get past extractor 5, and this is a problem because the umber of extractors it takes to spawn him is determined by RNG. Perhaps his schtuff should be received at a set number of extractors, maybe 7 or 8, to make it less o f a waiting game to get his parts

 

 

While I dont have limbo, after seeing how he plays, I would definitely agree that there should be a prompt for players to escape banishment if the ability gets casted on them. 

 

Also, energy drain enemies should not work on warframes in the Limbo rift thingy for additional effectivefulness

[LascarCapable]

Rift Walk:

 

• I’ve seen some suggestions that Rift Walk be combined with Banish, but I think this would hurt both abilities overall.  Rift Walk can’t help you escape from a tough group of enemies if you’re bringing them with you, and you can’t remove a heavy or Eximus if you follow it right into the Rift.  A different idea is that walking through an enemy while Rift Walking should Banish them, but this makes it worse than useless against melee enemies and Infested.

 

 

Well, none said that you had to banish another enemy in order to enter the rift if banish would be fused with rift walk (I support the idea of fusing banish and rift walk, but only if it's done well). We can imagine something that banish a target if you're aiming at it, or banish yourself if you're aiming the ground near you. Way more appealing, and a smart way to get a new skill as a replacement for Rift Walk IMO.

 

 

I highly support this as it would give alot more versatility to a frame that should be versatile. 

 

Also supporting it. Making Cataclysm a toggleable skill could fix a lot of things.

[Gizogin]

I still oppose combining Rift Walk and Banish.  Both skills are mechanically sound, because each does what it needs to.  They're both simple to use, and I can't think of any way to fold them into a single skill that won't make one or the other harder or more awkward.

 

 

We can imagine something that banish a target if you're aiming at it, or banish yourself if you're aiming the ground near you. 

 

With this, it becomes harder to Rift Walk if you're surrounded, because you have to find an empty space to aim at.  One of Rift Walk's major strengths is its ability to pull you out of these situations.

 

It also punishes you even more for missing a single target, which is Banish's main strength.  If I'm Rift Walking and I want to pull a single enemy out of a group into the Rift, missing under this idea would pull me out of the Rift and into serious danger.

[s7n7a7k7e]

I still oppose combining Rift Walk and Banish.  Both skills are mechanically sound, because each does what it needs to.  They're both simple to use, and I can't think of any way to fold them into a single skill that won't make one or the other harder or more awkward.

 

 

 

With this, it becomes harder to Rift Walk if you're surrounded, because you have to find an empty space to aim at.  One of Rift Walk's major strengths is its ability to pull you out of these situations.

 

It also punishes you even more for missing a single target, which is Banish's main strength.  If I'm Rift Walking and I want to pull a single enemy out of a group into the Rift, missing under this idea would pull me out of the Rift and into serious danger.

 

 

Same here. I am 100% against merging Banish and Rift Walk. Literally just three things would make Limbo 100 times better.

 

     1) Give a way for other players to leave the Void at their own will. This does not break Limbo, and gives non-Limbo players what they want.

 

     2) Make the affects of Rift Surge an innate affect on all enemies within the Void whether from being Banished or in the Cataclysm bubble.

 

     3) Replace Rift Surge with a direct damage or stun ability for when too many enemies become hard to handle.

 

Being able to enter the Void and pull enemies in one by one is nice, but it's too slow to effectively take on large groups of enemies before energy runs out. And Cataclysm can be a double-edge sword sometimes, too. I've used Cataclysm and died a couple of times because too many enemies were in the bubble. Too many for my squishy Limbo to handle. If Limbo's #3 ability was a small AOE damage or AOE stun attack, or if the Rift Surge became a passive affect on enemies in the Void and was buffed to be more effective, than Limbo would be able to defend himself more than he can currently. The Void should be Limbo's home field. He should have advantages in the Void. He should be able to pass some of these advantages to his teammates to give them incentive to want to be in the Void as well. This would make Limbo a more attractive class to play, as well as a desired class for non-Limbo players to have on their team.

Edited October 30, 2014 by s7n7a7k7e

[Gizogin]

Literally just three things would make Limbo 100 times better.

 

     1) Give a way for other players to leave the Void at their own will. This does not break Limbo, and gives non-Limbo players what they want.

 

     2) Make the affects of Rift Surge an innate affect on all enemies within the Void whether from being Banished or in the Cataclysm bubble.

 

     3) Replace Rift Surge with a direct damage or stun ability for when too many enemies become hard to handle.

 

Being able to enter the Void and pull enemies in one by one is nice, but it's too slow to effectively take on large groups of enemies before energy runs out. And Cataclysm can be a double-edge sword sometimes, too. I've used Cataclysm and died a couple of times because too many enemies were in the bubble. Too many for my squishy Limbo to handle.

 

I agree, mostly, with all of your points.  There need to be more benefits to Banishing enemies, and using an ability to grant that is too situational and micromanagement-heavy.  Even if the damage bonus were only 50% (the original Rift Surge bonus), it would be a massive improvement.

 

Rift Surge can't be a simple damage bonus.  Extra damage doesn't change the way we play, which is what abilities should do, and what Limbo's other skills do so well.  Direct damage could work, but it wouldn't scale as well as all his other skills.  A simple AoE stun has some potential, and it could do some direct damage as a bonus.

 

An idea I've floated before is that entering or leaving the Rift by any means should stun enemies briefly.  This would make Cataclysm a better way of locking down an area, since the only consequence for crossing it at the moment is minor damage.  If that seems a bit too strong, then why not add this to Rift Surge, instead?  While Rift Surge is active, in addition to some other buff or debuff, changing plane will stun enemies.

[s7n7a7k7e]

I agree, mostly, with all of your points.  There need to be more benefits to Banishing enemies, and using an ability to grant that is too situational and micromanagement-heavy.  Even if the damage bonus were only 50% (the original Rift Surge bonus), it would be a massive improvement.

 

Rift Surge can't be a simple damage bonus.  Extra damage doesn't change the way we play, which is what abilities should do, and what Limbo's other skills do so well.  Direct damage could work, but it wouldn't scale as well as all his other skills.  A simple AoE stun has some potential, and it could do some direct damage as a bonus.

 

An idea I've floated before is that entering or leaving the Rift by any means should stun enemies briefly.  This would make Cataclysm a better way of locking down an area, since the only consequence for crossing it at the moment is minor damage.  If that seems a bit too strong, then why not add this to Rift Surge, instead?  While Rift Surge is active, in addition to some other buff or debuff, changing plane will stun enemies.

 

Yeah it would be nice if Cataclysm had an initial knock-down attribute when casted. I've literally gotten killed by enemies inside my Cataclysm bubble just as my casting animation finished. As it stands, Limbo does not feel any safer in the Void than outside of it, unless he is the only one in it.

[Gizogin]

Yeah it would be nice if Cataclysm had an initial knock-down attribute when casted. I've literally gotten killed by enemies inside my Cataclysm bubble just as my casting animation finished. As it stands, Limbo does not feel any safer in the Void than outside of it, unless he is the only one in it.

 

Well, I was talking more about a general feature of changing plane than a part of Cataclysm, but even this would be an improvement.  Banish would almost be a useful ability based on its knockdown alone, while Cataclysm has only minor damage as a side-effect.

 

In short; yes, give Cataclysm knockdown on cast, at the very least.

[-OMS-Spriggan.EX]

I find what were argumented about Limbo a very good pros and cons.

However, i only do find one problem at him that need changes ASAP: the banish trolling rate since i believe strongly if the guy is your ally using the same warframe void energy should be able to cancel it manually, even before i had a problem with the skill three costing 70 energy while were giving only 1,5x boost, but for me it´s very nice how it is now as i see it well balanced.

For me, having damage boost inside rift as passive will make people use a lot more cataclysm and depending on the point of view and how the guy play... Might increase the trolling rate, maybe.

Of course what i told is like the personal preference about his looking way, just a opinion.

The way that is "hard" to play with him only makes the team play gold rule even more valuable: know your team mates.

[AnimatedJester]

But the biggest thing I have with Limbo, he doesn't play well with other warframes who use weapons. Powers work fine on banished enemies, but guns and such do not. And banishing team mates for upwards of 30+ seconds where than can do nothing, and let's just say they were meleeing enemies and you accidentally got them, they are now out of combat for 30+ seconds and stuck there.

You know Limbo can recast Banish on you to pull you out.

[Azamagon]

Same here. I am 100% against merging Banish and Rift Walk. Literally just three things would make Limbo 100 times better.

 

     1) Give a way for other players to leave the Void at their own will. This does not break Limbo, and gives non-Limbo players what they want.

 

     2) Make the affects of Rift Surge an innate affect on all enemies within the Void whether from being Banished or in the Cataclysm bubble.

 

     3) Replace Rift Surge with a direct damage or stun ability for when too many enemies become hard to handle.

 

Being able to enter the Void and pull enemies in one by one is nice, but it's too slow to effectively take on large groups of enemies before energy runs out. And Cataclysm can be a double-edge sword sometimes, too. I've used Cataclysm and died a couple of times because too many enemies were in the bubble. Too many for my squishy Limbo to handle. If Limbo's #3 ability was a small AOE damage or AOE stun attack, or if the Rift Surge became a passive affect on enemies in the Void and was buffed to be more effective, than Limbo would be able to defend himself more than he can currently. The Void should be Limbo's home field. He should have advantages in the Void. He should be able to pass some of these advantages to his teammates to give them incentive to want to be in the Void as well. This would make Limbo a more attractive class to play, as well as a desired class for non-Limbo players to have on their team.

 

 

I agree, mostly, with all of your points.  There need to be more benefits to Banishing enemies, and using an ability to grant that is too situational and micromanagement-heavy.  Even if the damage bonus were only 50% (the original Rift Surge bonus), it would be a massive improvement.

 

Rift Surge can't be a simple damage bonus.  Extra damage doesn't change the way we play, which is what abilities should do, and what Limbo's other skills do so well.  Direct damage could work, but it wouldn't scale as well as all his other skills.  A simple AoE stun has some potential, and it could do some direct damage as a bonus.

 

An idea I've floated before is that entering or leaving the Rift by any means should stun enemies briefly.  This would make Cataclysm a better way of locking down an area, since the only consequence for crossing it at the moment is minor damage.  If that seems a bit too strong, then why not add this to Rift Surge, instead?  While Rift Surge is active, in addition to some other buff or debuff, changing plane will stun enemies.

 

I agreed with both of you guys (I need to point out extra much that I'm also highly against merging Banish and Rift Walk, their concepts work perfectly fine as they are), and I'd like to point out my suggestions below, which is doing pretty much all of what you guys suggested:

 

Thought a little more about how to make the existing abilities more useful. They all just really need MORE effects added to them, rather than have them merged:

 

* Any enemy inside the rift: Suffers minor finisher DoT, moves and attacks 50% slower, suffers 50% more damage taken

* Limbo or any ally inside the rift: Moves, reloads, casts, shoots and melees 25% faster as well as regens energy (and possibly regens a bit of health and stamina too)

 

^ Those really ought to be the passives for the whole rift-mechanic to be worthwhile in the first place. Then the abilities can get their own buffs to make them more fun and useful:

 

BANISH - When cast on an enemy, it deals heavy FINISHER damage, knocks it down and sends it to the rift if in the physical plane, or to the physical plane if it's in the rift. Whenever Banish is cast on an enemy (wether to send it to the rift or to the physical plane), all enemies already in the rift (be it by Banish or Cataclysm) suffer a moderate amount of instant damage too! This gives it AoE in a new way, synergizing particularly well with Cataclysm. Note: Casting Banish on an enemy inside Cataclysm does nothing but cause damage, since it is instantly returned to the rift anyway due to Cataclysm's sphere. So combo Cataclysm + spam Banish for serious AoE hurting!

Allies that are banished can exit whenever they want by pressing the action-button (default being X), due to not being able to carry stuff in there anyway. Some kind of text should indicate this for the ally, but it shouldn't be too obstructive either.

 

RIFT WALK - Limbo swaps between the rift and physical plane as normal, but also briefly grants him a big boost in movementspeed and attackspeed (melee and range). Buff is granted regardless of the rift entry or exit.

 

RIFT SURGE - All enemies (and their projectiles!) in the Rift are paused (like if frozen) and suffer even more damage taken. All enemies (and their projectiles) in the physical plane within X meters of Limbo are slowed down by 50% (this physical-world slowdown happens no matter wether Limbo is in the Rift or not).

 

CATACLYSM - Like now, summons a slowly imploding rift-sphere. Damage is now a heavy instant finisher damage if an enemy touches the sphere (only happens once per cast) and then a quite heavy finisher DoT for as long as they are inside the sphere. Pulls enemies in the sphere towards the middle (not ragdolling, but gliding them in slowly). Banished allies (or if they simply go inside the Cataclysm Sphere) will be able to interact with the enemy and vice versa.

If Limbo casts Cataclysm again while it is active, he closes it near instantly, allowing for it to be recast right away.

 

I seriously think that doing all that would make him more "polished" and "perfected" than most other Warframes :P

[LascarCapable]

I find what were argumented about Limbo a very good pros and cons.

However, i only do find one problem at him that need changes ASAP: the banish trolling rate since i believe strongly if the guy is your ally using the same warframe void energy should be able to cancel it manually, even before i had a problem with the skill three costing 70 energy while were giving only 1,5x boost, but for me it´s very nice how it is now as i see it well balanced.

For me, having damage boost inside rift as passive will make people use a lot more cataclysm and depending on the point of view and how the guy play... Might increase the trolling rate, maybe.

Of course what i told is like the personal preference about his looking way, just a opinion.

The way that is "hard" to play with him only makes the team play gold rule even more valuable: know your team mates.

 

Someone proposed to make players able to exit the rift just by pressing X (action key). It seemed like a good idea.

[ProfessorZero]

What disappointed me the most about limbo is that he is not a void sorcerer. That conjures (get it) the idea of illusions and magic bolts. Now I'm not saying we need that, but limbo only does one thing. Banish. Banishing as a mechanic is difficult to play with since by its traits it limits who can attack what. Sure it may CC the grinder but you are also CC'ing your own team as well. Infact, besides the damage the banish initially does, it's almost like a boss invulnerability mechanic. "When the unit glows it can't take damage". Limbo is a one trick pony by design, even ember which only uses fire has some variability to that fire. (Projectile, static damage area, damage buff/stun, moving damage area) whereas limbo does one thing. Banish. It's not even a utility frame like hydriod who has kknockdown for days. Limbo needs a Flippin laser or something he fires outta his top hat and rework to his banish skills (tenno are void powered and so are their weapons right? Let them do damage to all voided enemies) before he stops being so cumbersome.

[ndantony]

Someone proposed to make players able to exit the rift just by pressing X (action key). It seemed like a good idea.

I like the back-flip idea, to let you out, that someone has suggested.

That prevents a lot of other issues of getting out by mistake, as staying in the rift has other different strategic advantage of its own.

[Rule908]

Limbo can be a monster in pvp if built right. Using banish I took out my friends ironskin, shields and a good chuck of his hp. This was his build

http://goo.gl/6Jfwn1

[LascarCapable]

I like the back-flip idea, to let you out, that someone has suggested.

That prevents a lot of other issues of getting out by mistake, as staying in the rift has other different strategic advantage of its own.

 

Well, I guess that could work too. I'd prefer using X though : what if I wanted to backflip in the rift without exiting the rift ?

[ndantony]

Well, I guess that could work too. I'd prefer using X though : what if I wanted to backflip in the rift without exiting the rift ?

Actually, I really don't mind what button to use as long as we can still be able utilize all of our moves and our abilities and not getting kicked out of the rift during the process. Maybe create a new button or combination of button press, or using the least use move...

[Evanescent]

Can't agree with you....Limbo for me is a frame that has a learning curve steeper even more than that of Loki. I found his powers very subtle and honestly, it gave me thrill to play him-

 

Here at last is a frame that only thoughtful playing and tactics will make shine.

 

The problem with Limbo is that he may require too much from a player, or simply not suit his playstyle. But then again, that is true for all frames, but a little more for Limbo.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that his powers need a little tweaking, but I think that IN NO WAY SHOULD HIS CURRENT MECHANICS BE SCRAPPED.

 

It's just unfair to scrap such an original mechanic for the sake of some trolls. Vauban can make your game unplayable with bounce and grief you with vortexes in your face with explosive weapons. Loki can start a switch teleport fiesta and make you ragequit. Hydroid can make you smash in your screen with undertow and tentacle forests. Valkyr can keep pulling you back with her ripline.

 

Why just Limbo?

 

Instead, let banishing allies put them at the 'entrance' of the rift plane: if they move forwards they go in, if they move backwards they stay out,  Now it's their choice to get in and get out.

[ProfessorZero]

Limbo solo is fine, limbo PVP is fine, its just he doesn't play well with others to a degree that not even a loki troll or a vauban troll can. The issue that alot of detractors (myself included) is that he does EXACTLY what he was designed to do. Its silly to say that he was poorly created and his mechanics dont work, he wasn't and they do work. The problem is that the mechanics as they are now don't benefit teamplay. If your in a survival and each member of the squad is kinda off doing his own thing, thats fine and limbo works fine. The issue is when you've got two of your buddies continuously beside you and all of the sudden Limbo gets very unwieldy. 

 

I'd also like to note that for those of us who have been running limbo alot have not had to deal with the negatives of a trolly limbo, cuz in most cases you WANT to be in the voidzone anyways, its just free energy for you. Play like a few hours of no limbo and it will annoy you.

[Cybercobra2]

Limbo solo is fine, limbo PVP is fine, its just he doesn't play well with others to a degree that not even a loki troll or a vauban troll can. The issue that alot of detractors (myself included) is that he does EXACTLY what he was designed to do. Its silly to say that he was poorly created and his mechanics dont work, he wasn't and they do work. The problem is that the mechanics as they are now don't benefit teamplay. If your in a survival and each member of the squad is kinda off doing his own thing, thats fine and limbo works fine. The issue is when you've got two of your buddies continuously beside you and all of the sudden Limbo gets very unwieldy. 

 

I'd also like to note that for those of us who have been running limbo alot have not had to deal with the negatives of a trolly limbo, cuz in most cases you WANT to be in the voidzone anyways, its just free energy for you. Play like a few hours of no limbo and it will annoy you.

i greatly disagree.

 

limbo can be a massive asset to a team, even if it isnt that coórdinated.

outside from your standard free revives and safe hacking he can save your life by eather banishing you or the guy murdering you, he can take an entire group of enemies out of the playing field for a while for you to catch your breath, he can put you in the rift so you can run around immortal just killing everything not in the rift with your ability's and massive energy regen.

 

and that is just some of the basic stuff.

[ProfessorZero]

i greatly disagree.

 

limbo can be a massive asset to a team, even if it isnt that coórdinated.

outside from your standard free revives and safe hacking he can save your life by eather banishing you or the guy murdering you, he can take an entire group of enemies out of the playing field for a while for you to catch your breath, he can put you in the rift so you can run around immortal just killing everything not in the rift with your ability's and massive energy regen.

 

and that is just some of the basic stuff.

Besides the fact that theres nothing he does that you've listed that another frame doesn't do leaps and bounds better (hell trin and valkyr just by themselves), if all the frame excels at is "free revives and safe hacking" then he doesn't provide anything then ease. I like rift walk, its my favorite skill of his beyond a doubt, and it might be my favorite power in this game (I mean comon, its only 15 flipping energy for temp invulnerability and energy regen). I was racking my head and I realized what Limbo is missing. A cheap AoE. Think about it, theres not a frame that doesn't have some AoE skill in the first three. And most (Except Trinity, who thanks to her own energy regen skills makes it easier to use link) have an AoE skill in the first 2 powers. All limbo has is basically a soul punch that is only single target, a self targeting and a ember-esque buff skill in his first three. His ult is certainly AoE but i'd argue that its a in the low tier of ults, along side skills like Nekros's Shadows of the dead and Excals old Radial Javelin. All this adds up to is that limbo only works at saving people from death. he doesn't really aid people putting the hurt on others. This means that outside of the opportunities he has to save people hes not really doing much for the team. and considering the precision of his support abilities (banishing one team member/heavy mob/yourself) at a time, hes outclassed by trinity in healing. The most useful place ive seen him is on a defense but outside of his ult hes just another gun. and considering that gun could be held by something more suited to the task means he still falls short on a team level. Thats why he "doesn't play well with others", its not that hes absolute trash, anyone telling you so is silly. hes not even 50% trash, since rift walk is great and cataclysm is also prty solid (needs to be buffed, but its clearly got potential) its just that his other skills are so lackluster, and two abilities that are ok are purely defense (along with one of the ones that need to be combined). 

 

Dont get me wrong, I understand not every skill should enable unlimited destruction, But maybe just combine abilities 1-3 into one ability, maybe make catclysm the third ability, and add in some AoE in the second ability, or at least just multitarget Void'ing. when i play a warframe I want to activate an ability and think "Goddamn now im going to F*** some S#&$ up", not "Great now they can't F*** me up as hard". It doesn't even have to do damage, maybe something like what Radial blind used to be for the ult. But nothing about warframe, even the defensive missions, is about hiding away and being, well, defensive. Its about ramming into your enemies at a blistering pace, shooting a lancer in the head one minute, igniting him the next, then cutting his friend in half. Even the most supporty frames like nekros can "terrify" enemies and make them flee, or like trinity can absorb stupid amounts of damage. This is a frame that diverges from a series of frame that make you feel powerful. Even mirage, who is a glass cannon is a cannon (just put a supra on and you'll see what I mean).

 

Limbo just seems too static, too (and i feel odd saying this) precise. In a game where I can easily kill 5000 enemies, not even mention my teammates kills, Limbo just doesn't fit. 50% of his abilities are single target, 75% of his abilities do the same thing, and one of his abilities is negligible buff that if we still had skill cards would never EVER be in a build. In fact if we still had ability cards neither would banish, just rift walk (maybe, for revives) and cataclysm (for defenses).  Since DE took away Ability cards all abilities should be up to par, and honestly Im tired of these 1-trick ponies. sure maybe I never used shield polarize, or soul punch. But you can bet your bacon that i was using pull and the ult, terrify, desecrate and SotD. Even if Nova is primarily used for molecular prime, can anyone dispute the usefulness of antimatter drop? of Wormhole? 

 

Limbo is kinda like ember in a way, different focuses, but their abilities kinda line up, especially on the third and 1st abilities. The difference is that if i hit someone with fireball it doesn't hurt me that much, especially with max efficiency. Max Effic would actively hurt him, so lets say we don't do that. If i hit a bombardier with fireball it just cost me 25 energy and its 25% dead so i shoot it with my lex once and it dies. If i hit a bombadr with banish, i gotta go into the void, then shoot it, and then so im not flipping useless, bring some more enemies in there. Maybe im energy neutral, maybe im not. the point is that at the end of the day it took me 1-2 seconds to kill with ember and like 6 for limbo, PLUS all the additional time it takes to banish and shoot individual targets afterwards. 

 

In short, Limbo doesnt do anything better than another frame except maybe revive. Hes not even the best at it, loki invisible can kill alot more people and revive.

 

 

also: in reference to you saying that you can save me by banishing me.  A) you can't banish anyone in the area cuz ill just die then so it has to be very VERY conditional and limiting B) its far more useful to void walk over to me, revive me, and then ive got full health again AND I can start shooting things immediately. Banish is far less beneficial then voiding yourself in every aspect when it comes to reviving.

[EchoesOfRain]

Dunno if anyone has found and posted it here yet, but I just found a way for Limbo to pick up items inside of Cataclysm.

 

1. Place Cataclysm

2. Make sure there are some items inside the bubble.

3. Stand over the items

4. Activate Rift Walk

5. Deactivate Rift Walk

 

At the point of Deactivation, I guess you are put into the physical plane, cause that exact point is the only time you can pick up the item. I imagine this can work on allies as well, but thats a real hassle for a single item

 

Can't say this is TOO useful, but...its something i guess...