Kaiser_Suoh Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 My Warframe (Excalibur, Mag and Trinity) have a virus. The new type "LOS", with my infected skill my warframes they are ill and are close to death. Now seriously, all this mess begins with the "VIVER dilemma", the problem with a few players who were good enough to find a little "error" in the game to deal with the Syndicate-Reputation problem. Then DE want fix the error, but instead fix Viver directly, DE NERF 3 WARFRAMES (Mag, Trinity and the most affected Excalibur) just because they were used in there. Now the problem, Viver, still works as an error that give us a lot of rep points (less poins but still give us points). The problem was not resolved... and 3 innocent warframes were killed in that absurd way if they say it's just a coincidence IS A LIE. DE released "Line of Sight" is the new factor that affect a warframe skill. Here a problem with that: - Why every player must pay for the "skilled players" who find that error? some Excalibur Prime players want their money back now (after buff was a very good warframe, now is unplayable again) - Viver is still there after this massacre. - If Viver dies in the future THE PLAYERS WILL FIND A NEW MODE TO OBTAIN REP POINTS, we can, thus began the problem with Viver right? - With the LoS, some enemies are hidden, now we must find them before use the skill. Better i shoot when i find them. - In high levels (keys tier 4) like defense, survival and interception exist a lot of enemies who we cant see. - Just when ppl found a reason to use some forgotten warframes... a massacre happened. - I really hope no more LoS in another warframes because dont makes sense. "Nova Molecular Prime has LoS now" "Rhino Stomp have a LoS now" "Volt Overload have LoS now" that will be sad. DE knows nerf always will irritate the players, because are the player who use that warframe. As a balance, a Nerf is a good necessary idea but this was just a "disaster" "a unnecessary massacre" Ppl REALLY spoken last night. DE you should hear them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyDonut3 Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 The severe nerfs to the frames did nothing to stop the Viver rep farm. People are doing rep farming on Viver as we speak, just with different frames. The only thing these nerfs accomplished is making the frames in question weaker and less desirable in general gameplay, in all mission types and nodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix86 Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 -snip- I premise that i overall agree with what u saying (guess u've seen lot of my posts by now basically everywhere... lol...) Anyway i'd like to point out a couple things: - none found out "little errors", the map is 100m wide, we got 90m wide insta-gib skills, we use them there. There's no error, glitch, exploit, cheat, nothing. We noticed that, we took advantage of that. Simple as that - LoS is not necessarly a bad thing... but given the reason and the timing they applied it in this circumstances yes, it was a TERRIBLE IDEA. That's it :) I agree with you on the overall argument ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninjamander Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) DE do read the forum but...seem they only read the <<X NEED TO BE NERF CRYCRY/ Make the napalm hitscan now cause challenge =u>> speaking about napalm....since DE seem to << LOVE THEY LoS >> change lately, why not add those for the napalm as well? You know..hiding behind a crate wont make they explosion affect you <.< yet..all they do is nerfing warframe left and right =/ Hope this massacre will stop sooner or later. Edited November 13, 2014 by Ninjamander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwiftPotato12 Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) - Why every player must pay for the "skilled players" who find that error? some Excalibur Prime players want their money back now (after buff was a very good warframe, now is unplayable again) I very much agree with this point. I was just starting to get back into my Excal Prime that I purchased way back when because he was no-longer just a useless trophy frame. Now seeing that they not only nerfed his radial blind with LOS, but now his radial javelin? I'm sorry that just seems a bit over the line. Uncalled for nerfing and it did nothing to Viver. Excalibur has gone back to his useless noob frame state. I would either like my 80$ back, or make Excalibur prime useful again. -Edit- Just tried my Excal Prime on Viver, while Viver is just as effective, Excal is now S#&$. I'm seriously wanting to break something atm... Edited November 13, 2014 by SwiftPotato12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaidd.Drwg Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 This doesn't include the issue with Mag's Shield Polarize no longer restoring her shields--one of the key points of the skill. If you're wondering why they don't, it's because she doesn't carry around a pocket mirror, and thus, doesn't have line of sight on herself. Perhaps the next update will add a monocle to go with the mustaches for 10p in the market in order to fix this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tehgreg Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 I think we should go further than LoS. We should also have HR. (hearing range) for example: if you have sounds disabled, Rhino's roar / Valkyr's warcry won't affect you because you simply can't hear it :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynxh Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 LoS isn't evil incarnate. I'm all for it. However.... If they are going to make things more LoS dependent then they need to apply it wholesomely (which might be happening?) and not half halfheartedly as right now is the case. Players and enemies alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Hiero_Glyph Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 The fact that Mag's Shield Polarize doesn't restore her shields proves that DE made this change to fix Viver without actually testing the change for balance reasons. It's a sad day when a developer ruins their own game to try and extend a grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-CdG-Revo Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Well, trinity users are very, very heavily impacted, excalibur can now be put back in the display case for the next 3 updates and hopefully be usefull again, mag, don't know, can any mag users confirm her overall usefullness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyDonut3 Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) The fact that Mag's Shield Polarize doesn't restore her shields proves that DE made this change to fix Viver without actually testing the change for balance reasons. It's a sad day when a developer ruins their own game to try and extend a grind. Apparently the ability actually checks for LoS on Mag herself and for some reason fails most of the time. Never mind the fact that it doesn't seem at affect enemies in plain sight about 50% of the time... Well, trinity users are very, very heavily impacted, excalibur can now be put back in the display case for the next 3 updates and hopefully be usefull again, mag, don't know, can any mag users confirm her overall usefullness? Her only useful ability in late game/high level missions has been butchered, how useful do you think she is then? Edited November 13, 2014 by HolyDonut3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter13 Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Moving to Warframe & Abilities Feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoboDoge Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Let me suggest some LOS changes. Invisibility LOS- enemies must see Loki, hence when he in Invisibility they dont see him, and will proceed to see him as he never used Invisibility. Same applies to Smoke Screen. Iron Skin LOS- damage is mitigated from mobs that are in Rhino LOS. Miasma LOS- damages mobs that Saryn is seeing. If she see only one mob and there is 50 others around her, that one will be killed. Vortex LOS- only mobs directly infront of Vauban will be affected. Shall i continue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitchrea Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Let me suggest some LOS changes. Invisibility LOS- enemies must see Loki, hence when he in Invisibility they dont see him, and will proceed to see him as he never used Invisibility. Same applies to Smoke Screen. Iron Skin LOS- damage is mitigated from mobs that are in Rhino LOS. Miasma LOS- damages mobs that Saryn is seeing. If she see only one mob and there is 50 others around her, that one will be killed. Vortex LOS- only mobs directly infront of Vauban will be affected. Shall i continue? Oh mai, this sounds horrible!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser_Suoh Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 LoS must be eliminated or at least "studied", something that does not bother the players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix86 Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Now... if we were able to destroy objects and surroundings like in a Battlefield game... that would be interesting when dealing with LoS ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnagar Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) LoS isn't the problem, when it's really the exploitation in Viver. So now that you can't spam your ultimates in a certain location for 20 minutes with these frames, the game is ruined? Its the other way around. We shouldn't have to exploit anything in this game to obtain things at a reasonable amount of time. The main problem is the Syndicate Reputaion System. It needs a major buff. There needs to be a better incentive for us to gain the proper amount of rep. Let's say a 5 wave Defense mission should give you 1000 reputation, not per game but per every 5 waves. Why soo high?? Well it's really not that high when it should be compensating for how much augments, weapon mods and sigils cost, how much each rank costs and the sacrifices to potatoes and formas and other mats and reputation points that are beinging use to rank up. This system needs a buff, but to think Excalibur is ruined because of LoS is just silly. Its kinda BS to think hitting enemies through walls has proper strategies when it's just an exploit in itself. Excalibur needs other tweaks that haven't been implemented. Maybe Compensate for the LoS nerf for an increase in damage, but really exploiting a game should not be the way to do things. It's like someone working at a desk job and somehow figured out a way to manipulate their work hours by adding more hours to their pay roll without actually doing those hours. That's messed up in sooo many levels. Edited November 13, 2014 by Magnagar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser_Suoh Posted November 13, 2014 Author Share Posted November 13, 2014 But to have the old good Excalibur, we must wait 2 or 3 months after this update. Because De dont want admit their mistake, even if they can remove or fix that warframe nerfs, they will not do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Similon Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 LoS isn't the problem, when it's really the exploitation in Viver. So now that you can't spam your ultimates in a certain location for 20 minutes with these frames, the game is ruined? Its the other way around. We shouldn't have to exploit anything in this game to obtain things at a reasonable amount of time. The main problem is the Syndicate Reputaion System. It needs a major buff. That's the thing, when you nerf an ability, it doesn't only affect the people who are using it in a certain way. I believe I haven't been to Viver since I first cleared the node, I've never sat in the same place spamming one power, et cetera. Yet my Excaliburs, Mags and Trinity were all hit equally hard by this short-sighted, somewhat misguided, attempt at a fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheakZarnn Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 (edited) Yes, LoS itself is not an Evil... but... when applied to some frames it literally kills them (exactly as been said by creator of this thread). My highest concern is Trinity. pretty weak support frame was nerfed recently loosing team invulnerability option first, then losing ability to _fully_ restore health and shields to allies. I seriously approve first and can understand second. What I can not understand is why DE desire Trinity's death? 15 armor even buffed by her link is not even _nearly_ enough to stay in plain sight while energy vampire restores her energy. Trinity wasn't a popular frame before and I can see that she won't be one later after that sneaky killing blow. Good job. DE - 3, Warframes - 0. flawless victory Edited November 13, 2014 by SheakZarnn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aarnwulf Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 The trinity debuff... 1) changed how Viver is done. It is no longer quite as easy to give players the FREE 50+ energy per second to which they have become accustomed, and even felt entitled to. It also changed how trinity may be used in any number of situations. 2) Did NOT break her. Trinity still does what she does better than anyone else. when you need her, you need her. She is not broken in that sense. We even used her for the new, nerfed Viver farm. She is still highly useful for it. Rep is waaaaay slower, less than 1/3 what it used to be, but still the best in the game. The Excal and Mag debuff.... 1) Did nothing to how Viver is farmed. You want to farm Viver? you still must have a Trinity or a non-LOS AoE frame with overextend. Affect on perceived exploit? ZERO! 2) Punished less experienced players who still have to make choices about which frames they have, and which they don't. If they have these frames instead of whatever is desired, then they WILL NOT BE ALLOWED into good groups. Period. There is no point in having ANY frame limited to LOS-AOE if you can take another who isn't. The trinity LOS nerf is distinctly different from the AOE damage LOS. If it is needed for game balance, so be it. Picking and choosing among which damage-dealer-ish frames are allowed to hit everything around them, and which are not, purely on the basis of which happened to be chosen for a particular farm that DE didn't like, is easily the dumbest decision ever made by DE. It has zero direct impact on experienced players who own EVERY warframe, and is a major punishment upon players who probably never got into the Viver Farm in the first place, since they don't have 8+ rank Blind Rage+Transient Fortitude AND maxed overextend. They were never part of the problem. So why are THEY the ones being punished? -Aarnwulf P.S. For the record, I do have every warframe. I chose not to spend 12 hours a day in Viver, but I could have if that were my sort of thing. I did run it several times, just not enough to actually buy a single mod and profit from it. I am OK with the farm being gone. Not so OK with REWARDING the farmers by ensuring and enshrining the value of their farmed mods while also singling out random newer players for special punishment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaugahn Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 LoS as a mechanic is not a bad idea. Right now though, it doesn't seem to work properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiouHotaru Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Viver is fixed though, because you can't hold nodes as neutral anymore. Either you have to take them and advance the round (which increases enemy level) or you lose. And enemy scaling ensures that at some point you have to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix86 Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 Viver is fixed though, because you can't hold nodes as neutral anymore. Either you have to take them and advance the round (which increases enemy level) or you lose. And enemy scaling ensures that at some point you have to leave. leave, rinse and repeat, i dont see the problem if the spawn/time ratio of the enemies is close to the same... i'll just experience more loading screens but really, that's it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiouHotaru Posted November 13, 2014 Share Posted November 13, 2014 leave, rinse and repeat, i dont see the problem if the spawn/time ratio of the enemies is close to the same... i'll just experience more loading screens but really, that's it It still fixes the "use macros, afk overnight, earn 15-20k reputation" issue, or the "hold neutral points for 10 minutes" issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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