Guide To Viver New And Improved

[VKhaun]

Rep gain is a problem. People find solutions to problems, in this case, Viver. Are they to blame for doing the most efficient mission possible or is DE to blame for making rep gains that absurdly slow?

 

Neither.

 

The purpose of adding/mixing RPG in with an action game is to give the player room to get stronger and to approach problems in their own ways.

 

The problem is that DE made a game where the most efficient way to do anything is BORING and repetitive and the strongest you can be makes the game BORING and easy unless you sit in an endless mission for an hour+.

 

That means we need to get rid of the boring and easy. Harder enemies (challenge, not hp sponges), less press-4-win skills. Lower rewards for standing around farming at zero risk and zero challenge.

 

I will never hate on DE for fixing that problem. I will continue to support them as long as they're moving away from BORING stand around pressing 4 gameplay.

Edited November 13, 2014 by VKhaun

[paplo]

1) Bull. This is not something you have to 'grind' you are choosing to go grind it. You get these points for doing ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT at the same time, just by putting a sigil on. You are the one who decided to stop doing anything else and go try to farm it for a fistfull of niche mods. Go play what you enjoy and earn points slowly over time. If you enjoy nothing here, then go play another game!

 

NOPE - you're going to go back to Viver and press 4 until you burn out, then blame DE for making a bad game. If DE stops you from burning out doing repetitive bad gameplay by nerfing the 4 key and/or Viver, you're going to blame them for making a bad game.

 

PLEASE WAKE UP AND BE REASONABLE.

 

 

 

 

 

2) What rock are you living under that you think they haven't been putting in new missions and mechanics?

WE ARE CHOOSING TO GRIND IT because there is nothing else for us the veteran players

dude WAKE UP

Edited November 13, 2014 by paplo

[S.T.M.P.D]

1)

NOPE - you're going to go back to Viver and press 4 until you burn out, then blame DE for making a bad game. If DE stops you from burning out doing repetitive bad gameplay by nerfing the 4 key and/or Viver, you're going to blame them for making a bad game.

PLEASE WAKE UP AND BE REASONABLE.

2) What rock are you living under that you think they haven't been putting in new missions and mechanics?

1. True dat. I've done my best to play Warframe just as a fun thing, maybe do some co-op void from time to time, but I can't do that when everyone seems to be focused on the end of the journey, not the journey itself.

2. Ah, but those are just "game". They're not really "endgame". I suspect DE intended to make Archwing a little harder than normal to cater to that, but then the same people said that "Archwing is too haaaaarrrrrrddddd!!" are the same people who like Viver, then at the same time complain that there is no endgame. Progress is being made toward noble goals, but the same people who championed them so they'd seem smart and cool have now flashed their true colors like chameleons.

Edited November 13, 2014 by S.T.M.P.D

[Noja87]

And if you are the same people complaining about too much grind, then why the hell are you grinding Viver to death? 

 

What else is there to do in Warframe? 

[S.T.M.P.D]

What else is there to do in Warframe?

Oh, I don't know. I myself don't treat the game as a grindfest. I just log on and find an ODD and see how far I can go and how much fun I can have.

Granted, this should not be a mindset problem. DE still needs to bring in new unique stuff, and they are. They may not be developing new systems well, but they're trying, you can tell they're laying groundwork, and that's what matters.

In the meantime, try to enjoy yourself. If you aren't, I will not blame you. This game burns folks out pretty fast, so having something else on your plate (PS2 for me, whatever for you) can help a bit.

[VKhaun]

WE ARE CHOOSING TO GRIND IT because there is nothing else for us the veteran players

dude WAKE UP

 

No developer can make content as fast as people consume it. If you have done everything and you don't enjoy replay, are opposed to changes that improve replay then there is no answer for you. You need to take a break.

[Lowsodium]

No developer can make content as fast as people consume it. If you have done everything and you don't enjoy replay, are opposed to changes that improve replay then there is no answer for you. You need to take a break.

 

We do. We take tons of breaks. After an event or a patch, people swarm in to consume the content DE has made, and then they log off for weeks untlll the next content patch. This needs to stop. DE needs to come up with some entertaining and replayable endgame content. Something that gives a propper reward for the effort required to acomplish the goal.

[Yorinar]

Just in, now ultimates do not kill if Trinity is on the team.  #onenerftoendtrinity

[Brimir]

At this point I am ever so relieved that Loki doesn't actually have any damaging abilities.

 

Phew!

[AdFinitum]

Since either the topic gets deleted or it will be considered some sort of feedback to be prepared what ways / frames to farm reputation are yet to be nerfed and since I am not playing anymore for now I wonder :

 

- Did someone try Viver with Volt ? As long as he isnt LoS ^^ isnt he more powerful than Saryn due to his AoE DoT kind of damage working very well on that map - at least I used him a lot on that map to great success

( inb4 Saryn + Volt gets nerfed )

 

- Did someone consider farming Jupiter / Callisto for reputation points ? Its much lower level but after doing some rounds to get enemies to an appropriate level it would most likely not suffer from LoS problems and could possibly be farmed forever like the pre cap point nerf to viver. At least with the right group setup ( Trin + Banshee to keep them away from capturing and stunlock them for safety + 2 max range damage frames, e.g. Mag )

( inb4 Banshee gets nerfed as well as Trinity for a 4th time and Mag another time as well as any warframe doing any damage )

 

- Anyone got an idea if rep farm would work on excavation missions ? Those have endless enemy spawns and as far as I experienced quite a lot of enemies. Could use Banshee / Limbo / Loki for safety. Do one excavation to be able to finish the mission at any time then camp at the Scanner - without an excavator active enemies should come there. If enemy levels stay the same as long as no new excavator is powered this could be done forever otherwise it could at least be done up to a very high wave.

( inb4 Loki ^^ & Limbo get nerfed )

 

- Last but not least - when all frames are nerfed to the ground : Doesnt Infested Hive sabotage spawn endless enemies ? Could farm this forever with any frame and weapons only ? Just get to an elevated spot and kill infested forever.

( inb4 all weapons and enemy spawns get nerfed and the game is unplayable )

 

Since barely using the word Cerberus got a topic deleted that might be a place considered for rep farming as well... ?

 

My thoughts are not meant in an offensive / destructive way. I just like theory crafting and am curious. Am not even playing the game for now ( my personal deadline was the mod cap - the nerfs were just a confirmation to stop ). Its just a bit more interesting than just being dumbass Rhimbo.

Edited November 13, 2014 by AdFinitum

[Monolake]

No developer can make content as fast as people consume it. If you have done everything and you don't enjoy replay, are opposed to changes that improve replay then there is no answer for you. You need to take a break.

Did they ever try to make high-level content?  

In any decent RPG you create progression with both limits and incentives to guide players through variation of missions/quests,  to ensure that its never viable to mindlessly grind the same re-spawning mobs forever. You need to make progression, high-level content for high-level players. 

DE just threw in huge grindwall with 0 thought put into progression and no new content, forcing people to grind locations with most spawns.

[Kayblis]

Since either the topic gets deleted or it will be considered some sort of feedback to be prepared what ways / frames to farm reputation are yet to be nerfed and since I am not playing anymore for now I wonder :

 

[comparing useful facts about different frames]

 

Since barely using the word Cerberus got a topic deleted that might be a place considered for rep farming as well... ?

 

My thoughts are not meant in an offensive / destructive way. I just like theory crafting. Its just a bit more interesting than just being dumbass Rhimbo.

Nobody cares so far because their favorite frames aren't touched yet,I mean seriously who plays trinity,mag and excalibur? nobody

When Ash and Rhino get the los nerf (since the thing OP posted is doable the same way with those 2) I'm pretty sure there will be WAY more backlash

[Egg_Chen]

Either this gets Saryn nerfed, or DE realise its never going to end....

 

If DE didn't want players min-maxing they should never have released corrupted mods.

As they just dropped Transient out there recently its a pretty safe bet to say they encourage min-maxing.

Except, why are they combatting it at the same time?

 

I'm lost, I really am.

 

DE, your only real solution is to change the rep mechanic.

Should be based on mission type, enemy levels and waves / time survived.

 

In one go that would stop Viver, and make other missions all viable as well.

A 30 minute survival against Lv30 enemies should net roughly the same points as 30 minutes worth of waves on a Lv30 Interception mission.

[Shifted]

You're gonna nerf all the aoe frames by exploiting this goddamn map.

[Davoodoo]

And when de again nerf most played frames everyone will again cry before theyll finally switch to volts, then to oberon, then frost, then ember and finally rhino.

 

Then you will be able to play with what you want thinking that everything was done due to viver.

[VKhaun]

We do. We take tons of breaks. After an event or a patch, people swarm in to consume the content DE has made, and then they log off for weeks untlll the next content patch. This needs to stop. DE needs to come up with some entertaining and replayable endgame content. Something that gives a propper reward for the effort required to acomplish the goal.

 

 

Did they ever try to make high-level content?  

In any decent RPG you create progression with both limits and incentives to guide players through variation of missions/quests,  to ensure that its never viable to mindlessly grind the same re-spawning mobs forever. You need to make progression, high-level content for high-level players. 

DE just threw in huge grindwall with 0 thought put into progression and no new content, forcing people to grind locations with most spawns.

 

 

You're in fantasy land. DE has added tons of new game modes that have excellent replay and endless scaling. One of them is called interception. You refuse to label it END GAME and so it's not valid reply? This is circular nonsense and even if it wasn't, your 'point' doesn't lead to a reason for you to stand in the middle of Viver pressing 4 over and over again, it leads in the opposite direction.

[Azawarau]

Excuse me? You managed to find a new way to have fun? Nah, no no no. We cannot have this. I have reported this to DE. Please nerf ALL frames and remove Viver entirely. 

EXP farming = fun?

 

Best argument 2014

Edited November 13, 2014 by Azawarau

[-ExT-Kiri]

 

Your turn DE.

I'm eagerly awaiting more well thought out balancing descisions from you.

 

nerf incoming!

[FearTheRush]

NERF NERF NERF DE

[Lowsodium]

You're in fantasy land. DE has added tons of new game modes that have excellent replay and endless scaling. One of them is called interception. You refuse to label it END GAME and so it's not valid reply? This is circular nonsense and even if it wasn't, your 'point' doesn't lead to a reason for you to stand in the middle of Viver pressing 4 over and over again, it leads in the opposite direction.

 

Nobody is saying Viver is ideal endgame. It's just the best place to farm. That's it. Even if Viver is removed or fixed, it doesn't solve the main problem here. I consider killing Ruk to be more of an endgame than Viver. But DE doesn't even consider bosses to be endgame because killing them is pointless outside of farming rare resources or to fill out the star chart. The syndicates don't seem to consider bosses to be worth a second thought either. The reason we are at Viver is because the only thing to do in this game is grind. Viver is just the best place to grind. But that does not make it endgame content.

 

Endless scaling is not the same as endgame.

 

Lets talk about the recent new game modes.

 

Dark sectors: Used to be a little fun, but now they are a PvP joke. This game is horribly designed and balanced for PvP. Even before the PvP mode ruined it all the way, there was no reason to participate. Owning a node gets you resources to make more towers to take more nodes... Now DE seems to have forgotten about it because there is no indication they are going to expand upon it in any meaningful way.

 

Interception: Just an endless scaling game mode. Nothing special about it.

 

Tactical missions: There was one... Now what? One mission every month or so is not going to keep people interested.

 

Excavation: Again, just another endless scaling mission. Nothing special there.

 

Archwing: Zero story after you get your archwing, it's just more of the same game modes we have been playing for years.

 

You say they keep adding new game modes. But it's not really new in any way. It's just more of the same grind. Get a new weapon and grind it to max rank then sell it because there are already 10 other weapons just like it and they are all garbage. Warframe has some pathetically one dimensional game play. Nothing requires teamwork, nothing requires you have decent gear, nothing requires more thought than to aim for the weak spot, or get to point A, or take X item to Y location. Nothing is an actual challenge.

 

And instead of actually taking their tame to make an endgame with a story and worthwhile rewards. They would rather nurf the frames so we can't burn through their ridiculous grind wall and notice that there is nothing else to do.

[VKhaun]

If endless scaling infinite replay missions with various objectives are all just grinding and not fun reply at all for you, then can you give me an example of what amazing shiny thing you expect will be added to make this game fun for you?

 

In all seriousness.

 

I simply don't understand the hypergrindist forum position that pops up in every thread, where they declare the entire game grinding. At some point you're supposed to be here on these boards because you ENJOY the game on some level, doing something. How can you be here posting if the entire game is nothing but grinding to you?

[S.T.M.P.D]

If endless scaling infinite replay missions with various objectives are all just grinding and not fun reply at all for you, then can you give me an example of what amazing shiny thing you expect will be added to make this game fun for you?

 

In all seriousness.

 

I simply don't understand the hypergrindist forum position that pops up in every thread, where they declare the entire game grinding. At some point you're supposed to be here on these boards because you ENJOY the game on some level, doing something. How can you be here posting if the entire game is nothing but grinding to you?

Someone said, "Do not argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience."

I would follow that advice to find your answer.

[VKhaun]

Someone said, "Do not argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level and beat you with experience."

I would follow that advice to find your answer.

 

Okay. T_T

[Lowsodium]

If endless scaling infinite replay missions with various objectives are all just grinding and not fun reply at all for you, then can you give me an example of what amazing shiny thing you expect will be added to make this game fun for you?

 

In all seriousness.

 

I simply don't understand the hypergrindist forum position that pops up in every thread, where they declare the entire game grinding. At some point you're supposed to be here on these boards because you ENJOY the game on some level, doing something. How can you be here posting if the entire game is nothing but grinding to you?

 

Like I said I enjoy bosses. A fight that is epic and tense. I enjoy the challenge rooms in the Orokin Voids. I enjoy Vault runs.

 

I would like to see DE add more fights that require teamwork and forethought. Fights that require 4 people who know what they are doing and have some level of a gear requirement. I would like to see more parkour tile sets. As it stands, the parkour is little more than a gimmick to get across a map faster or to get some minor rewards. DE did not design the tilesets for the movement considering how easy it is to get stuck on the environment. I would like to see maps that REQUIRE skillful use of the parkour

 

I would like to see dynamic missions. Lets say as we run intercept waves, we unlock special mission that have better rewards and more exp. I'm not asking for void keys. I mean missions directly related to the storyline. If we capture a guy in a syndicate mission, have that open up an escort mission for the opposite faction. Make it into a contest between the two groups. Use the mission types to counter actions of the opposing side. The side that wins gets a massive rep bonus or a potato. Give us a reason to invest in our syndicates other than the mods, make us want to side with a group and support their cause.

 

Or how about survival mission where the guy searching for stuff finds a small clue to start a quest chain.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Lowsodium

[VKhaun]

I would like to see DE add more fights that require teamwork and forethought. Fights that require 4 people who know what they are doing and have some level of a gear requirement.

 

Interesting post, but I wanted to reply to this in particular.

 

It has long been my frustration that the core game has no structure because what you describe is EXACTLY what endless missions should be. Eventually no matter how strong you are, you cease to be able to solo the endlessly scaling enemies and must come together as a team. This just doesn't happen. People go from solo mindset, to spam OP crap mindset, to "lets go rage on the forums" mindset.

 

To get co-op going, we have to fix the rest of the game first by adding some form of structure because otherwise the player base sets their own bar at "vaporize it all instantly" and "I am invinciible!" and when that stops working they think something is wrong with the game. I've been saying this for a very long time.