White Knighting And What Is It Really?

[TheErebus.]

So what is White Knighting?
And I'm not talking about being the guy who protects the female gamer because he wants some booty.

 

I'm talking about when someone defends a game or anything else from criticism and is then called a white knight.

 

But is it really being a white knight?


I've been called that so many times here and in other forums. Primarily because I do argue a lot with other users about certain things they find wrong with the game. 

But you see, this isn't white knighting. 

 

Let's use me and warframe as an example. If I see someone saying that "X is bad", I come in and say "No X isn't bad and here's why". 

Is this white knighting? No. Not at all. This is simply someone refuting a point that someone else has made and provided evidence and explanation to back his argument up.

 

So then I must ask. 

What qualifies as white knighting then?

[vaugahn]

Almost nothing. 

 

But people like to throw it around whenever anyone disagrees with them on anything.

[TheErebus.]

Almost nothing. 

 

But people like to throw it around whenever anyone disagrees with them on anything.

So essentially it is simply being used to be dis-respectful towards another user to avoid listening to their points?

[Imaru]

I think it has just become a buzzword that people use without really knowing what it means. Even if they do know what it means, I don't get why it's a bad thing to defend the developers.

[TheErebus.]

I think it has just become a buzzword that people use without really knowing what it means. Even if they do know what it means, I don't get why it's a bad thing to defend the developers.

I believe that if the situation cannot be supported effectively on the side of DE (or any dev), then the person who attempts to support them can be called a white knight. As he cannot back up his arguments and is simply using blind faith.

[--Sokol]

In Warframe, White Knights are those who defend DE no matter what. E.g. someone is talking against DE and how poorly they did something and a White Knight would barge in and no matter how wrong he is, he will defend DE with any possible argument.

 

Something in those lines, I think.

[Lord-Taco-the-Great]

My definition of a white night (used derogatorily) is someone who's love for someone or something is so much, they will defend it at all costs (creating the 'they can do no wrong' vibe) even if that person or thing is at fault. White nights (by my definition) usually worsen the situation by making everyone angrier.

 

edit: additional point

Edited November 16, 2014 by Lord-Taco-the-Great

[Sitchrea]

So essentially it is simply being used to be dis-respectful towards another user to avoid listening to their points?

 

#>~*The Internet*~<#

[TheErebus.]

#>~*The Internet*~<#

Oh yes of course.

 

internet~

In Warframe, White Knights are those who defend DE no matter what. E.g. someone is talking against DE and how poorly they did something and a White Knight would barge in and no matter how wrong he is, he will defend DE with any possible argument.

 

Something in those lines, I think.

So I guess I fit into that. I do tend to try to come up with some form of a reasonable argument to back up DE. However, if something is messed up then I will accept that it is messed up.

[APBladeX]

It's mostly used when someone is blindly defending DE in their posts when the thread has valid criticism. Sometimes it's used to describe people who barely read the original post and proceed to argue and sometimes insult the original poster.

[Netheroc]

Let me use the ability nerfs as an example. Pretty much everyone on the warframe community disagreed with the need for those nerfs and an uproar started. Now if someone ignores every mistake DE made with this move, and still says it was reasonable and needed, while it clearly was not, i think thats what you call a white knight. Someone that blindly tries to defend their "Hero" (in this case, DE), denying that they couldve made a mistake.

[MegpoidBeetle]

This is how I see it on most hate threads

 

Dude 1: x=5 cuz 2+2=5

Dude 2: No cuz 2+2=4

Dude 1: You wrong cuz 5=2+2=3+1

Dude 2: But 3+1=4, and 2+3=5

Dude 1: You're not getting it, read line 1 again.

 

Oh well even on threads that have no intention of sparking any arguments there'll be that one guy who tries to be a smartass.

[Armouredhunter]

In Warframe, White Knights are those who defend DE no matter what. E.g. someone is talking against DE and how poorly they did something and a White Knight would barge in and no matter how wrong he is, he will defend DE with any possible argument.

 

Something in those lines, I think.

I admit that I can be like that but I just tend to sit off to the side and use the flames to roast marshmallows. I just tend to find that people react a little to fast to say there are things wrong.

[TheErebus.]

Let me use the ability nerfs as an example. Pretty much everyone on the warframe community disagreed with the need for those nerfs and an uproar started. Now if someone ignores every mistake DE made with this move, and still says it was reasonable and needed, while it clearly was not, i think thats what you call a white knight. Someone that blindly tries to defend their "Hero" (in this case, DE), denying that they couldve made a mistake.

During that dark period of time, I tried to be on the positive of things and attempted to see why DE would make these changes as opposed to simply hating them for it. 

 

Would this be considered White knighting?

[Armouredhunter]

During that dark period of time, I tried to be on the positive of things and attempted to see why DE would make these changes as opposed to simply hating them for it. 

 

Would this be considered White knighting?

Depends the side of the person your asking. I don't think so because I was the same albeit less vocal but one of the ragers would say so. I find it's more a matter of view is often the case.

[LukeAura]

My definition of a white night (used derogatorily) is someone who's love for someone or something is so much, they will defend it at all costs (creating the 'they can do no wrong' vibe) even if that person or thing is at fault. White nights (by my definition) usually worsen the situation by making everyone angrier.

 

edit: additional point

I would say this probably the best definition. It's fine to disagree that something is a problem,  but to bring it to the point that DE can do no wrong, it's not healthy. Simply putting DE's word above an informed and articulated opinion is not healthy to the game or to the discussion. 

 

 

During that dark period of time, I tried to be on the positive of things and attempted to see why DE would make these changes as opposed to simply hating them for it. 

 

Would this be considered White knighting?

Trying to be positive, no, although I would say it's kind of foolish to stand in front of a stampede like that.

Seeing why doesn't make their idea right, you can understand why someone did something and it can still be a 'wrong' action. So you can understand and maybe sympathize or be lenient about it, but not defend at which point it becomes white knighting.  

Edited November 16, 2014 by LukeAura

[Netheroc]

During that dark period of time, I tried to be on the positive of things and attempted to see why DE would make these changes as opposed to simply hating them for it. 

 

Would this be considered White knighting?

If you accepted those changes without hesitation or questioning, and tried to convince everyone that those changes were justified, you were white knighting.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Netheroc

[TheErebus.]

Trying to be positive, no, although I would say it's kind of foolish to stand in front of a stampede like that.

Seeing why doesn't make their idea right, you can understand why someone did something and it can still be a 'wrong' action. So you can understand and maybe sympathize or be lenient about it, but not defend at which point it becomes white knighting.  

 

All I had done was try to make others understand why they did it. I didn't agree with their changes either, but I dislike being entirely in the negative of things.

[vaugahn]

So essentially it is simply being used to be dis-respectful towards another user to avoid listening to their points?

 

Pretty much. At least, that's how I see it used.

 

When players are having an argument/debate/whatever, one of them usually ends up on DE's side just by nature of the object of debate. The person on the other side then calls them a white knight to make their argument look mindless.

 

I suppose there actually are people who just mindlessly support DE, but I don't see them often.

 

For example, when talking about rep gain:

 

Player 1: rep gain is supposed to be a long term investment, I'm fine with it being gained slowly

Player 2: well, you're just a white knight

 

Player 1 may not actually mindlessly defend DE, but since they happen to align with them on that particular issue they get called a white knight to try and discredit their argument. 

[TheErebus.]

If you accepted those changes without hesitation or questioning, and tried to convince everyone that those changes were justified, you were white knighting.

I did not. 

The problem was with the Syndicates and not the warframes, that was the issue at hand and I accepted this.

[-Mr.Meeseeks-]

A white knight is a person who defends something or someone despite that person or thing clearly being in the wrong or doing something wrong. Or if something has a really negative reputation and people attempt to defend that.

 

An example would be a person trying to defend EA and saying that they don't try to screw over their customers with bad support and half finished game packages with a bunch of dlc.

[Grilleds]

I define it as anyone who attempts to defend some sort of perceived moral highground on the internet, especially when their moral view is shallow and not situation dependent. Example would be if a female forum goer is harassing someone and they decide to insult them in response, causing a bunch of white knights to immediately take her side because she's a girl. These types of people usually make problems worse rather than resolve them, because they don't take in the entire situation. It's worse when these types of people end up becoming moderators on a forum.

 

Urban dictionary gives a similar but slightly different definition:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=white%20knighting

 

 

In Warframe, White Knights are those who defend DE no matter what. E.g. someone is talking against DE and how poorly they did something and a White Knight would barge in and no matter how wrong he is, he will defend DE with any possible argument.

 

Something in those lines, I think.

That's not white knighting, it's lickspittle. There can be some overlap between the terms, but generally white knighting requires there to be a particular incident while lickspittle is an overall behavior regardless of situation.

[Netheroc]

I did not. 

The problem was with the Syndicates and not the warframes, that was the issue at hand and I accepted this.

See, then you didnt, as you were questioning their decision to nerf the warframes instead of change the reputation gain system. All in all, if any changes they do are clearly over the top, unjustified, ridiculous, insulting etc etc, and you question them for doing those changes, you are not white knighting.

[Rydian]

During that dark period of time, I tried to be on the positive of things and attempted to see why DE would make these changes as opposed to simply hating them for it. 

 

Would this be considered White knighting?

Yes.  If you have to put effort into finding a reason to defend something, that's generally a sign that the criticism against it is valid.

 

If you assume that all of DE's decisions are correct and all of them have good thought-out reasons behind them, then actual problems with the game are less likely to be fixed.  Defending DE's decisions because they're DE's decisions can actually be seen as a detriment to the development of the game.

 

DE is human and makes mistakes, and the game is beta.  If there is a perceived problem with the game, it should be debated based on the facts and the problem itself, not based on who is behind which stance.

[Morec0]

It's because of this kind of accusation that I always try to provide a reasoning behind defensive statements I make either upfront of when I'm accused of being this (usually in the form of the term "fanboy").

 

If i may say: White Knighting is coming to the defense of something without having an explainable reasoning specifically for the idea in question to why you're coming to it's defense. i.e., someone claims the Kubrow system is stupid and you simply saying "no, it's not. stop hating DE they work hard and I think Kubrows are fine" rather than "I disagree, and this is why I disagree..."

 

In short: white knighting is defense without debate.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Morec0