Melee Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)KaxMcc]

Since melee doesn't have its own section I would like to open up a melee improvements/feedback thread. I'm going to be going through the forums and honing down on some of the more popular issues surrounding melee and trying to present them in the most easily digestible fashion. For right now I am going to post my suggestions and the ones from a post I made earlier but I will continue to add any relevant suggestions that I find on the forums. If any of this is missing an opinion or if you would like to bring up new issues please let me know and I will adjust as needed.

 

Common issues

 

1 - Enemy accuracy makes incoming fire impossible to dodge effectively (as of 15.2.2)

 

2 - Stamina consumption from blocking is damage based. makes blocking pointless at higher levels

 

3 - Too many actions draw from the stamina pool causing it to drain extremely fast during melee combat.

 

4 - Parrying is not useful

 

5 - Melee only is not as accessible at higher levels due to lack of active damage mitigation methods.

 

6 - Melee auto targeting does not work as intended.

 

7 - Pause combos need adjustments to be made for ease of usage

 

8 - enemies don't consistently recoil when struck.

 

Janzer displays a number of these issues as well as a few others in

. For a good summary of said issues refer to his post.

 

Suggestions

 

format

issue addressed : source commenter (link to post)

*suggestion*

 

 

1 : Renegade343 (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/346944-about-enemy-accuracy/)
**post includes technical details regarding a possible accuracy solution**

 

2 : OP

-Stamina drain should based on number of projectiles and projectile type rather than damage. Heavier projectiles like sniper rounds will cost more stamina per round while full auto weapons will cost less.

 

-alternately: a new stat could be added to each melee weapon that would be the blocking equivalent of the armor stat for warframes. Increasing the stat would result in less stamina drain per each unit of damage. Which would allow melee players to scale their blocking capability to a reasonable level for high level play.

 

2 : Evanescent
- Change block stamina consumption to be based on number of projectiles rather than damage
- Adjust block radius to include the front and sides of the player

 

2 : Momaw (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/345695-melee-guard-not-eating-stamina/#entry3861824)
-blocking has a stamina cost per second regardless of enemy action

 

3 : IfritKajiTora(https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/345695-melee-guard-not-eating-stamina/#entry3861337)
-Give blocking its own energy bar to pull from
 

3 : Azamagon
-Stamina should not be consumed by melee attacks or by sprinting.
-Stamina should be consumed by blocking, dodging, parkour and channeling.
 

4 : OP

-remove the channeling requirement for parries

-add a visual cue to assist with parry timing

-allow blocking while not in melee mode

-timing should be strict but feasible

 

4 : Kuhrasu (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/234751-backstabbing-and-executions-cool-but-useless-lets-fix-that/#entry2719458)
-Make parries instant kills
-Add visual indicators to enemy melee attacks to assist with timing of parries
-add "rush/dash" mechanic allowing players to quickly transition from parry finishers back into combat

 

4 : SgtFlex (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/346098-a-few-interesting-ideas-regarding-melee-and-parrying/?hl=melee)
-Add a quick parry input
 

5 : OP

-Telegraph enemy melee attacks so that they are able to be dodged/blocked/parried

-Allow blocks and dodges to be executed immediately after each melee attack animation ends

 

5 : nickelshark
-Add blocking/defensive measures to certain combos

 

5 : sasquach180
- Additional mods for melee only players (example given in post)

 

5 : KingTaro
- Allow players to cancel out of attacking into a dodge or block

 

5 : Azamagon
-Dodge speed for all frames should be increased so that they will be useful for avoiding enemy fire
 

7 : OP(https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/347977-melee-feedback-megathread/page-4#entry3885936)

- My spiel on pause combos

 

8 : KingTaro(https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/295471-melee-20-general-feedback/)

- knockback suggestions

 

Other suggestions(not issue specific)

 

OP

-Melee attacks for both players and enemies need more forward movement. The animations for each swing usually involve the character taking steps forward but for some reason the feet seem to shuffle rather than give the impression of stepping forward and the character only slides forward marginally.

- The option to disable run-melee would also be greatly appreciated. I think that the analog stick(or whatever is used for movement) should be used to determine the direction of the next swing while melee attacking rather than initiating a run-attack.

 

IfritKajiTora
-Have enemies prioritize melee attacks when in range

 

OmegaDas(https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/305869-not-sure-if-im-the-only-one-who-feels-this-way-regarding-melee-combos/)

-Adjust melee combos for ease of usage

 

JacobLittle (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/306656-combo-string-systemusing-the-reload-button-a-better-combo-system-even-with-or-without-charge-attacks/)

- (Idea) Combo string system

 

akira_him (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/343133-channeling-20/)

- (Idea) innate channeling effects

 

Kurokoki (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/347977-melee-feedback-megathread/#entry3885745)

-Melee Channeling should add additional slam attack radius

-Include a pommel strike or stun option for melee weapons, replacing the default Quick Melee key or Reload key

-Make Critical Hits entirely skill-based or include a critical option rather than keeping it entirely chance-based

- (Idea) Gun to melee transition.(https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/344724-gun-to-melee-transition-idea/#entry3850065)

 

SgtFlex (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/346098-a-few-interesting-ideas-regarding-melee-and-parrying/?hl=melee)
-Add a quick-shot mechanic (side arm equivalent of quick melee)
-Make it so you can shoot while quick-parrying
-Make it so Reflex Guard stops working after your stamina is below a certain amount
 

Kuhrasu (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/234751-backstabbing-and-executions-cool-but-useless-lets-fix-that/#entry2719458)
-Add backstabs
 

 

Tell me what you guys think. I'll be adding any and all suggestions to the op so if you find any good ideas be sure to let me know.

 

Edit:My other thread got merged into this one. The OP is below in case anyone is interested

So I just wanted to reach out to the community's of melee centric players and ask mainly about damage mitigation via melee and how it might be improved in your opinion. Currently when being fired upon from several directions the player has no means of mitigating damage other than fleeing the situation. This is fine if you fight enemies in smaller doses but it becomes more of an issue when higher numbers of enemies begin to spawn and mingle together creating instances in which you can't go on the offensive without taking severe amounts of damage. I was thinking that a directional blocking mechanic could work but as soon as you begin to attack you would make yourself vulnerable again. That coupled with the fact that both blocking and attacking drain stamina means that you will eventually be forced to flee once again which leads to the aforementioned issue.

 

So what do you guys think? What would be the best adjustment that can be made to allow the player to avoid damage via melee-only without having to be a tank?

Edited November 26, 2014 by (PS4)KaxMcc
Merged topics for this section

[MrEpical]

Dodging

[(PSN)KaxMcc]

Dodging

 

With the amount of lasers/bullets/whatever coming your way it becomes near impossible to dodge everything when solo. Especially since you can't dodge or move while attacking in the same way that you can with ranged weapons. At least the way it is now. could you elaborate a little maybe?

Edited November 16, 2014 by (PS4)KaxMcc

[Draciusen]

That's what blocking and moving are for.

 

In theory it works perfectly, but in practice there's so much stamina usage from sprinting/rolling/attacking/blocking you're almost always out. God forbid you use the Kronen and want to block too.

[-Mandachordian-Tenno-]

get loki and RD them all

[gaurdianaq]

Not much you can do really, certain frames aren't suited to melee only combat... All I can say is use frames that might work well...

My list of frames that would work well for melee.

Valkyr
Loki
Ash
Mirage
Volt

Hydroid

Maybe rhino and frost?
Maybe nyx?

As long as you make proper use of your abilities to compliment melee a good chunk of frames can be good for melee...

Like Loki and Ash for obvious reasons (invisbility, teleportation)

Mirage is great cause of hall of mirrors (5 melee weapons creates amazing range and enemies shoot the clones)

Hydroid cause puddle and high stamina (makes blocking better)

Volt has speed...

Valkyr cause valkyr (seriously everything about her makes her good for melee)

Nyx has absorb and chaos which help take the pressure off...

[(PSN)torvahn]

I can solo defence missions to wave 30 with loki p and dakra p just disarming.

[nickelshark]

Dodging

"Dodging" isn't really going to help you much now that Grineer are flawlessly accurate.

 

Maybe different blocking combos could be added. Each combo dose some kind of defensive counter of sorts. Like maybe a short charge and knockdown counter, or a quick low sweep to trip up enemies according to a range based on your melee weapon.

 

I tihnk the main problem is that blocking is one directional. And you mentioned directional blocking, which would be pretty nifty.

Edited November 16, 2014 by nickelshark

[Seanjuju]

A major update to the parry-stamina system.

[Data-Zero]

Not much you can do really, certain frames aren't suited to melee only combat... All I can say is use frames that might work well...

My list of frames that would work well for melee.

Valkyr

Loki

Ash

Mirage

Volt

Hydroid

Maybe rhino and frost?

Maybe nyx?

As long as you make proper use of your abilities to compliment melee a good chunk of frames can be good for melee...

Like Loki and Ash for obvious reasons (invisbility, teleportation)

Mirage is great cause of hall of mirrors (5 melee weapons creates amazing range and enemies shoot the clones)

Hydroid cause puddle and high stamina (makes blocking better)

Volt has speed...

Valkyr cause valkyr (seriously everything about her makes her good for melee)

Nyx has absorb and chaos which help take the pressure off...

No excalibur? Really?

[(PSN)KaxMcc]

I can solo defence missions to wave 30 with loki p and dakra p just disarming.

 

I can see how many people can go melee-only with certain frames. But I was more asking what can DE do to make it viable across the board. For feedback purposes.

 

I agree with those saying that stamina usage as of now is really high. Maybe separating the block from stamina would allow players a little more versatility. Giving it its own resource to pull from could make it more viable to utilize movement as well since it wouldn't make you drop your guard. Also, melee attacks probably shouldn't take stamina. That seems like a little bit much.

Edited November 16, 2014 by (PS4)KaxMcc

[fatpig84]

Zephyr Overextended + Stretch Turbulence build makes fighting Corpus with melee only hilarious.

[Azamagon]

People, you are missing the point of the thread! Did you even read the OP? He is not asking for gameplay help, he wants a discussion for what DE could do to make it generally more viable...

 

I can see how many people can go melee-only with certain frames. But I was more asking what can DE do to make it viable across the board. For feedback purposes.

Well, something that would certainly help:

* Stamina should NOT be consumed by melee attacks or by sprinting.

* Stamina should still be consumed by blocking, dodging (which needs to be much more mitigative) and parkouring (which should highly reduce enemy accuracy), but also for CHANNELING! Then Stamina is for survival and melee empowerment, not just for basic movement and basic meleeing.

 

That would be a good start, but a whole lot more needs to be done after that.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Azamagon

[gaurdianaq]

No excalibur? Really?

I never said it was a complete list :P

 

I can see how many people can go melee-only with certain frames. But I was more asking what can DE do to make it viable across the board. For feedback purposes.

But should they is the question? I mean you pick certain frames to play certain play styles. So I'm not sure if it would make sense for all frames to be super melee viable... like I mean like Nova is super squishy, has no real defensive abilities, but can clear a map out with ridiculous efficiency it doesn't make sense that she'd be going in close combat.

[(PSN)KaxMcc]

I never said it was a complete list :P

 

But should they is the question? I mean you pick certain frames to play certain play styles. So I'm not sure if it would make sense for all frames to be super melee viable... like I mean like Nova is super squishy, has no real defensive abilities, but can clear a map out with ridiculous efficiency it doesn't make sense that she'd be going in close combat.

 

Viability doesn't mean it has to be easy, just possible. As it is now some frames are locked out of certain play styles. It makes sense that certain frames may not perform just as well as melee centric ones. But if it makes melee only completely impossible I think that's an issue worth looking at.

 

 

 

People, you are missing the point of the thread! Did you even read the OP? He is not asking for gameplay help, he wants a discussion for what DE could do to make it generally more viable...

 

Well, something that would certainly help:

* Stamina should NOT be consumed by melee attacks or by sprinting.

* Stamina should still be consumed by blocking, dodging (which needs to be much more mitigative) and parkouring (which should highly reduce enemy accuracy), but also for CHANNELING! Then Stamina is for survival and melee empowerment, not just for basic movement and basic meleeing.

 

That would be a good start, but a whole lot more needs to be done after that.

 

I agree with melee attacks being removed entirely from the stamina pool but sprinting is another thing. I don't know if DE would jive well with infinity sprints since the extra mobility it offers is intended to scalable via mods. How about making stamina movement only and creating a separate resource for blocking and offensive measures? I also agree with your points on dodging and parkour. Do you think that dodges should simply be quicker and less spammable or do they need some other adjustments to work well?

 

 

"Dodging" isn't really going to help you much now that Grineer are flawlessly accurate.

 

Maybe different blocking combos could be added. Each combo dose some kind of defensive counter of sorts. Like maybe a short charge and knockdown counter, or a quick low sweep to trip up enemies according to a range based on your melee weapon.

 

I tihnk the main problem is that blocking is one directional. And you mentioned directional blocking, which would be pretty nifty.

 

I like it. This could definitely help with keeping attacking  for more than a second viable at higher levels. Offensive blocks can incur a higher resource drain as well to keep it from being too exploitable.

Edited November 16, 2014 by (PS4)KaxMcc

[Evanescent]

I'd vote for decreased stamina consumption and changing it to consume X amount of stamina for Y amount of projectiles instead of damage and blocking bullets coming from the sides AND front, like in a hemisphere. Makes it much more viable.

[holdenagincourt]

Enemy accuracy tweaks would help. Thematically and practically though, I actually believe that a Tenno who wishes to play melee-only should be putting more of an emphasis on stealth, misdirection and assassination than open combat. And at present, any warframe can complete high-level non-point defense missions while using the sword alone as long as the Tenno plays with this in mind.

 

Viability doesn't mean it has to be easy, just possible. As it is now some frames are locked out of certain play styles. It makes sense that certain frames may not perform just as well as melee centric ones. But if it makes melee only completely impossible I think that's an issue worth looking at.

 

If that's your standard, you'll never get any traction. There are always people who can make crazy things that the community at large thinks are impossible, possible.

[Sasquatchias]

Perhaps more Mods that are built more for alternative playstyles?

 

An example would be a Mod that increases a Shield's "toughness" when a melee weapon is out. giving The Sword Alone players a bigger chance at survival without letting "regular" players get even stronger.

[FATEdPondera]

Here, OP, TFS will educate you on what to do when being fired upon from multiple enemies from multiple angles.

 

 

Failing that, you could just try what this guy is doing.

 

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img745/4880/xTOyoR.gif

 

I know it won't stop ALL the bullets, but some not hitting you is better than all of them hitting you right?

 

Pro-tip, you can also do this while sprinting, sliding, or in the air.

[StalkerOfTheMist]

Run at enemies while blocking, slide, then jump, keeps their aim off (If there is a wall nearby wallrun after that manouver).

Having reflection equipped causes enemies to proc themselves with status, and most of the time staggering them (Corpus radiating themselves and killing each other...priceless).

Will update later when i'm not sleepy...

[KingTaro]

Moving around fast while meleeing them used to work. But not anymore because the enemies are all aimbots now. Well, I'm glad most Corpus units use projectile based weapons, but the main issue is the grineer.

 

Also, there should be a set priority in the moves.

We should be able to block and dodge the moment we press those keys. Not after our previous animation is done. That's a huge issue.

 

So it comes down to allowing dodge and block to interrupt any other action that we were doing, the moment we press the corresponding key. And off course removing the aimbot mechanics from the enemies.

Edited November 16, 2014 by KingTaro

[Deidaku]

Not much you can do really, certain frames aren't suited to melee only combat... All I can say is use frames that might work well...

My list of frames that would work well for melee.

Valkyr

Loki

Ash

Mirage

Volt

Hydroid

Maybe rhino and frost?

Maybe nyx?

As long as you make proper use of your abilities to compliment melee a good chunk of frames can be good for melee...

Like Loki and Ash for obvious reasons (invisbility, teleportation)

Mirage is great cause of hall of mirrors (5 melee weapons creates amazing range and enemies shoot the clones)

Hydroid cause puddle and high stamina (makes blocking better)

Volt has speed...

Valkyr cause valkyr (seriously everything about her makes her good for melee)

Nyx has absorb and chaos which help take the pressure off...

Nyx chaos melee build is pretty efficient

 

just chaos and it's as if you aren't even there

[BerelHawdos]

get zephyr use turbulence

[Otaiken]

Well, until frames that focus on shields get a shield equivalent of Rage + Life Strike combo, I don't think you will be able to use those frames for melee centric playstyle.

 

Rage + Life Strike is currently the only way to pull off melee on higher levels, but you need A LOT of armor for that to work. Other than that it's active abilities.. like Loki or Mirage. Mirage especially is rather good melee frame with HoM.

[Azamagon]

I agree with melee attacks being removed entirely from the stamina pool but sprinting is another thing. I don't know if DE would jive well with infinity sprints since the extra mobility it offers is intended to scalable via mods. How about making stamina movement only and creating a separate resource for blocking and offensive measures? I also agree with your points on dodging and parkour. Do you think that dodges should simply be quicker and less spammable or do they need some other adjustments to work well?

Infinite sprinting is already a thing if you use sliding well, so if anything, that just makes it easier for the less finger-acrobatic players to keep up in speed.

 

I feels It's unnecessary to make another resource for blocking. Stamina, imo, should be a resource used for ACTIVE defense (compared to Shields/Health which is passive defense) and preferably also for empowering melee with Channeling (would make Channeling builds far more interesting than now, in contrast to its Energy-useage which just makes it clash with abilities). That fits in a classic "triangle archetype" too:

Shields/Health/Armor = The durable tank

Energy = The casting mage

Stamina = The agile rogue

 

About dodges: They (on top of higher mitigation) needs to be more akin to Mirage's dodging speed. For some weird reason, she has WAY faster dodging than all other Warframes. Imo, that's how ALL Warframes should move. Making it less spammable is unnecessary, considering the huge stamina-cost they have already. After all, I really think we should be rewarded when we play well and actively.