So, You Got Rid Of Overheat... Only To Introduce Shatter Shield...

[[DE]Momaw]

Her defensive  ability is a spammable stun that gives you 5x damage with power str

 

When I think "spammable",  I tend to think something like Paralysis, not an ability that has a base cost of 50 energy.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

Shush you or you'll get them nerfed and somehow trinity will get nerfed in the process too!

 

This is so tragicomical, because it's true. :´)

[GTG3000]

I don't remember how old Iron Skin worked but Overheat could go up to 94% damage mitigation + 200 damage per tick in a 2.5m (or was it 5m) radius around Ember + knockdown immunity + Ember's ulti keeps her mobile. Overheat was too good, period. Shatter Shield on the other hand has 80% damage mitigation against bullets + reflects a % of that and that's it. Also Peacemaker makes you dead unless you have Shatter Shield active.

 

 

Overheat never gave knockdown or stagger immunity. It did give protection from Disruptors, since it was before procs, and it allowed Ember to run into a crowd and use her mediocre DoT. And it wasn't OP before corrupted mods, because it only went to 90% or so, and was the only way an ember could put her damage to good use on higher-level missions.

 

Nowadays, with corrupted mods and all that mojo, Overheat would need to get a hard cap on how good the defence can be, along with some other penalties to the overall ability stats.

[Azawarau]

When I think "spammable",  I tend to think something like Paralysis, not an ability that has a base cost of 50 energy.

I suppose you think long duration powers like Hysteria and Blessing and hall of mirrors arent spammable either?

 

Or that it can go to 35/12 energy doesnt help when she can reach something like 525 energy with backdraft helm?

 

Its more than spammable

[Ronyn]

I suppose you think long duration powers like Hysteria and Blessing and hall of mirrors arent spammable either?

 

Or that it can go to 35/12 energy doesnt help when she can reach something like 525 energy with backdraft helm?

 

Its more than spammable

I don't consider anything that lasts 30 seconds as spammable.

That's a long time between clicks even if you have it active at all times.

But I think I get your meaning that you're refering to anything that's almost always on.

In which case I agree that abilities like that can certainly be up near constantly.

[Azawarau]

I don't consider anything that lasts 30 seconds as spammable.

That's a long time between clicks even if you have it active at all times.

But I think I get your meaning that you're refering to anything that's almost always on.

In which case I agree that abilities like that can certainly be up near constantly.

Well spammable depends on your view but my point is accelerant is more than spammable

[Ronyn]

Well spammable depends on your view but my point is accelerant is more than spammable

Indeed. With the right build you can use accelarant a whole lot.

Which reminds me....I haven't played my ember in like three months.

I'm going to have to take her for another spin pretty soon here.

[Vargras]

And it wasn't OP before corrupted mods, because it only went to 90% or so

90% DR to everything isn't OP?

 

Okay.

[Azawarau]

Indeed. With the right build you can use accelarant a whole lot.

Which reminds me....I haven't played my ember in like three months.

I'm going to have to take her for another spin pretty soon here.

Be  careful

 

Ember is really weak

[RexRgisIocus]

Be  careful

 

Ember is really weak

 

She isn't weak. She just isn't "Safe". People have gotten too comfortable with "Safe" frames.

 

By safe I mean Rhino, Loki, Nova, etc...frames that have no actual huge disadvantage.

Edited November 30, 2014 by RexRgisIocus

[SoulEchelon]

Be  careful

 

Ember is really squishy

 

Fixed. Ember is a powerhouse IF played correctly. Just a quick glimpse through this very thread will tell you this if you read posts made by obvious Ember players. While I agree she could use some tweaking (Maybe more armor/health, definitely a speed increase, etc), she is nowhere near "weak".

 

As for the topic at hand, is this going to happen every time an even remotely similar ability pops up? Overheat was a crutch. Shatter Shield, while I consider also a crutch, is at least slightly more mandatory. And now that fire blast has been (finally) fixed and fast movements = lowered enemy accuracy, Ember has never been stronger as well as balanced.

[[DE]Momaw]

I suppose you think long duration powers like Hysteria and Blessing and hall of mirrors arent spammable either?

 

In order to be "spammable", the cost has to be low for the time you benefit to the point that you can just keep casting it over and over for a continuous benefit.  Hall of Mirrors is spammable because it lasts a very long time per casting.  If you're relying on Accelerant for crowd control, the useful effect time on it is VERY short so you have to cast it every couple of seconds. And if you're doing 500% damage bonus on Accelerant like somebody suggested then you're not at max efficiency for 12.5 energy per casting, either.

[GTG3000]

90% DR to everything isn't OP?

 

Okay.

 

Well it's not OP if if's on a squishy frame that can't instantly clean the room. Which Ember couldn't do, so it was ok. If CURRENT ember got 90% DR, it would be OP as S#&$ if it didn't come with some serious downsides.

[Azawarau]

She isn't weak. She just isn't "Safe". People have gotten to comfortable with "Safe" frames.

 

By safe I mean Rhino, Loki, Nova, etc...frames that have no actual huge disadvantage.

That was sarcasm actually...

 

In order to be "spammable", the cost has to be low for the time you benefit to the point that you can just keep casting it over and over for a continuous benefit.  Hall of Mirrors is spammable because it lasts a very long time per casting.  If you're relying on Accelerant for crowd control, the useful effect time on it is VERY short so you have to cast it every couple of seconds. And if you're doing 500% damage bonus on Accelerant like somebody suggested then you're not at max efficiency for 12.5 energy per casting, either.

You can get it to about 35 energy on overextended range with 500% damage increase

 

Overextended TF intensify fleeting stretch blind rage streamline and 2 other mods of your choice

 

Or alternatively get it to something like 260% for 12energy with a similar build by dropping blind rage and replacing with another mod of your choice

[LukeAura]

If Overheat didn't fit Ember, Shatter Shield shouldn't fit a gunslinger.
'Gunslingers' might be slightly more durable than Fire mages, an upgrade from light to medium armor, but they're not 20x standard durability from the overwhelming majority of incoming enemy damage. They should be relying on crowd control, movement, and high damage output to stay alive.
 

[RealPandemonium]

It should actually redirect shots back to the source instead of LOLOL DAMAGE REDUCTION.

Edited December 1, 2014 by RealPandemonium

[RexRgisIocus]

If Overheat didn't fit Ember, Shatter Shield shouldn't fit a gunslinger.

'Gunslingers' might be slightly more durable than Fire mages, an upgrade from light to medium armor, but they're not 20x standard durability from the overwhelming majority of incoming enemy damage. They should be relying on crowd control, movement, and high damage output to stay alive.

 

 

Overheat didn't fit the role of Ember (Glass Cannon according to Scott). It had nothing to do with the theme. Mesa isn't a glass cannon and she has no shields. IMO Mesa is basically a not so stealthy Ash.

 

[SandwitchPrime]

oh, ok, so you didn't seem to know that pointing things like this out will only give DE the opportunity to nerf it along with many others down to ember's level and help DE making this game into darksouls

[TwiceDead]

Melee is really not a threat to Mesa. 

Find a ledge/box/anything you can stand on, activate Shatter-Shield, GG any enemy you encounter. The AI takes a while to find a path on-top of any ledge you've set up camp, and are most likely dead (or have chosen easier prey to chase) before they get to you. 

 

With minimal effort you can place yourself out of arms reach of the enemy, by then nothing can kill you with guns as long as you have your 80% DR so... Peacemaker away, unless there's grineers with explosive ordnance nearby, don't think it reflects rockets. 

[Azawarau]

It should actually redirect shots back to the source instead of LOLOL DAMAGE REDUCTION.

Where have you been panda san

 

If it were something like zephrys power except didnt entirely prevent damage sometimes..

Melee is really not a threat to Mesa. 

Find a ledge/box/anything you can stand on, activate Shatter-Shield, GG any enemy you encounter. The AI takes a while to find a path on-top of any ledge you've set up camp, and are most likely dead (or have chosen easier prey to chase) before they get to you. 

 

With minimal effort you can place yourself out of arms reach of the enemy, by then nothing can kill you with guns as long as you have your 80% DR so... Peacemaker away, unless there's grineers with explosive ordnance nearby, don't think it reflects rockets. 

A friend said he saw me redirect one at point blank

 

Idk myself though

[Ronyn]

Melee is really not a threat to Mesa. 

Find a ledge/box/anything you can stand on, activate Shatter-Shield, GG any enemy you encounter. The AI takes a while to find a path on-top of any ledge you've set up camp, and are most likely dead (or have chosen easier prey to chase) before they get to you. 

 

With minimal effort you can place yourself out of arms reach of the enemy, by then nothing can kill you with guns as long as you have your 80% DR so... Peacemaker away, unless there's grineers with explosive ordnance nearby, don't think it reflects rockets. 

Shatter Sheild deflects rockets that would hit her directly. What hurts her is any nearby explosion a rocket that is aimed next to her might cause.

Damage reduction also doesn't stop hit status effects from the bullets that hit her. Often the initial shot will be heavily reduced but a slash proc will still cut her down.

 

Auras are another issue. Those can go through walls and obstructions. Ground effects like big slime puddles will still do full damage to her and some of the new infested can hurl them.

 

Melee enemies are more or less of a threat depending on the circumstances of the terrain, mission type and specific enemy.

For example: It's not always reasonable to stand on a high point when the rest of the team is rushing forward in exterminate.

Or at those times where you're trying to take out a capture target or protect a rescue target.

 

Also note that crowd control like knockdowns still effects her and enemy drains can rob her of any chance to use her abilities.

without them shes rather squishy.

 

TLDR: Mesa, as a turret type frame, is particularly good in modes where you get to post up in one spot like defense and mobile defense.

She can still do well on nodes that require mobility but she has to pay more attention and cant always bypass the problems with high ground.

Shatter shield has it's uses but can be overcome. Often shooting gallery has to take its place defending her in certain modes.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Ronyn

[tris1]

shatter shield is gd against range units the problem is the infested and units that have some sort of effect such as aoe effect on the fire proc from grinier bombards and such. maybe shatter shield should work on shields as it does now but have increased shields or let it work on health but stops damage like a normal reduction just not on shields

[Monolake]

Gotta admit that 95% DR is quite OP.  And then it returns the damage too, like Trin Link.  Uhmm yeah. 

Should be capped at 80%

[Vargras]

Gotta admit that 95% DR is quite OP.  And then it returns the damage too, like Trin Link.  Uhmm yeah. 

Should be capped at 80%

The damage return is laughable compared to Link.

 

Most mobs will only deal about 5-20 damage per shot to themselves. When players can do thousands of damage with a single shot, it's not much of a comparison.

[Azawarau]

Shatter Sheild deflects rockets that would hit her directly. What hurts her is any nearby explosion a rocket that is aimed next to her might cause.

Damage reduction also doesn't stop hit status effects from the bullets that hit her. Often the initial shot will be heavily reduced but a slash proc will still cut her down.

 

Auras are another issue. Those can go through walls and obstructions. Ground effects like big slime puddles will still do full damage to her and some of the new infested can hurl them.

 

Melee enemies are more or less of a threat depending on the circumstances of the terrain, mission type and specific enemy.

For example: It's not always reasonable to stand on a high point when the rest of the team is rushing forward in exterminate.

Or at those times where you're trying to take out a capture target or protect a rescue target.

 

Also note that crowd control like knockdowns still effects her and enemy drains can rob her of any chance to use her abilities.

without them shes rather squishy.

 

TLDR: Mesa, as a turret type frame, is particularly good in modes where you get to post up in one spot like defense and mobile defense.

She can still do well on nodes that require mobility but she has to pay more attention and cant always bypass the problems with high ground.

Shatter shield has it's uses but can be overcome. Often shooting gallery has to take its place defending her in certain modes.

Im still not having issues except drones that suddenly shoot up and kill me during peacemaker when i dont have shatter shield on because peacemaker has terrible priority

 

Grineer = face tank

 

Corpus = face tank

 

Corrupted = face tank

 

Infested = peacemaker cant get close

 

Defense = globe or various ally CCs +  Peacemaker

 

Excavation = Same as defense

 

Interception = Nearly the same as defense

 

Non scaling mission = 3 and face tank