Excalibur Badly Needs A Rework

[jmforeman02]

---------------------------------------------------------WHAT'S WRONG WITH EXCALIBUR----------------------------------------------------------------

I think most people like Excalibur to a certain extent. Most of us started with him. We found out how to play with him. It's nostalgia. Some of us even love him from the original Dark Sector game (like me) and really love the proto-armor skin. But most of us won't touch him for end-game. Why? Because there's no good reason to. He's supposed to be the balanced frame, the all-rounder frame, but his lack of exceptionality makes him exceptionally bad. For example, his mediocre shields, mediocre health, mediocre armor combination is worse than someone who has good shields and bad armor/health or vice versa. The reason is that with either of those combinations you could get near max survivability with just 1 or 2 warframe mods because you'll increase the highest stat(s) and leave the low one(s) alone since they won't be worth much anyway. To get the same survivability with him takes 3 mods. That puts him below other middle survivable frames like Mag and Volt, who match him for speed by the way. And he doesn't get as much defense from his abilities either compared to the two previously mentioned, or Ash or Loki, who he is of course much slower than. He can even be outrun by a Rhino Prime which has much more defense all-round.

 

Speaking of abilities, Slash Dash is okay, though it would be better if it consistently penetrated all enemies or was aimable in all 3 dimensions. Super Jump is not that super though. Now every frame can do Super Jump with aerial directional melee attacks which costs no energy and can be used to propel you any direction, not just up. Radial Blind has the same cost and effect as if you activated and deactivated Mirage's prism ability, but has a line of sight limitation that Mirage's ability doesn't. It's only advantage is a faster cast time than prism. Radial Blind also has a 5 second cooldown which is quite rare for abilities. I understand the argument for it, but there is no cooldown on the two cloak abilities or the two invincibility abilities in the game. Looking at Radial Javelin, it does a decent amount of damage, but now it has a LoS requirement. And if you compare it once again to Prism, Radial Javelin does less damage for 100 energy, has a smaller range, has no blind effect, and while it does cast faster, it has a post-cast animation that keeps you vulnerable for longer (the post-cast animation was removed only for conclave). So basically the best two abilities Excalibur has are at least matched in effectiveness by a single ability on another frame. Even if you think that's because Mirage is an offensive frame that's fine. Rhino Stomp has close to the same effect (though not quite) as casting Radial Blind + Radial Javelin too, and Rhino is supposedly a defensive frame.

 

Really though if any frame is an all-rounder, it's  Rhino Prime. Literally every base stat Excalibur has is matched or beaten by Rhino Prime. EVERY ONE! Rhino Prime runs the average speed (faster with arcane vanguard), has high defenses all-round, and has normal stamina and energy. His abilities include a mobility/damage dealer, a team offensive buff, a damage mitigation ability, and one of the best crowd control abilities in the game. He's not really a defensive frame, he's got it all. In comparison Excalibur is a glass cannon without the cannon.

 

In summation, he doesn't have enough defense to be very survivable. Not enough good damage abilities to be a damage dealer. Not enough mobility to make him a particularly mobile frame or to make up for his other deficiencies. In the end he doesn't end up doing everything fairly well, he ends up being not very good at anything. I know that this is because he was designed far before many of the current game mechanics. At the time he was designed, having Redirection, Vitality, and Steel Fiber on one frame at the same time made sense. There were far fewer mods to compete with then. I know that Super Jump far predates directional melee and probably every other frame. There was little to nothing to balance Excalibur against back then. I love Excalibur, but he badly needs a revisit to make him keep up with all the changes that have been made. I'm hoping that with the talk about quality and balance enhancement in the recent devstreams you will take a look at him. I'd love to have a reason to play him more. 

Edited March 31, 2015 by jmforeman02

[Dreamwalk3r]

I came to this thread wanting to argue with you and point to Draco, but yeah, Super Jump if nothing else should really be replaced (though it comboboboes with Radial Blind). Adding invisibility was rather bandaid decision.

Speaking of bandaids: replaced, not added an augment mod, DE.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Dreamwalk3r

[Circle_of_Psi]

I agree 100%

 

and what do you mean Oberon is an abomination?

[Invisum]

Looking at Radial Javelin, it does a decent amount of damage but also has a line of sight issue unlike some others.

 

Umm... There is no LoS on Radial Javelin. There's a reason why reputation farms use two excaliburs for damage. I do think rep farms probably make him one of the most used frames ironically.

 

That said, as all damage abilities eventually become useless at high levels, he does not an effectively scaling or utility purpose for many missions since the LoS nerf on his Radial Blind.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Invisum

[(PSN)Pharen]

Super jump seems to be excaliburs only real pointless ability. He could use a new ability that themes with his swordsman theme. Also aside from Oberons arms thickness, in what way is Oberon an abomination?

[RyojinOrion]

I dunno, I think Excal is pretty good where he is. I use him for everything but endless missions*, and that hasn't failed me yet. Super Jump is a bit lackluster, but the invisibility added to it makes it excellent for getting out of a rough spot, and Radial Blind works quite well with it as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Unless I get bored with using him and switch to something else for a while to break up the monotony when I have all but Mesa and Limbo.

Edited January 14, 2015 by RyojinOrion

[jmforeman02]

and what do you mean Oberon is an abomination?

 

I was half-kidding. But he is another compromise frame. Half-healer, half-warrior, good at neither. Most people don't even need healers now because of lifestrike. Not to mention that he doesn't look very good. He's got tiny arms, the start of a beer gut and a hunchback, plus antlers. Not exactly what I picture when I think healer/warrior.

Edited January 14, 2015 by jmforeman02

[Kaokasalis]

I disagree with some of your points here. Radial Javelin is not affected by sight. Also regarding the range of Radial Javelin, then it has a range of 25 meters when the ability is as max level and thats more than other ultimates. Super Jump could be better though.

 

Overall i think Excalibur is in a pretty good spot if compared to other frames likes Ember.

[Prime]

I think Super Jump should be replaced with something like a Volt shield or like this

 

[deathstar2190]

you  do know that radial blind  can stun any enemy in range , regardless of enemy lvl? if i put max range, and duration. he can be very useful in high tier missions. he also has a fast travel ( ie slash dash ) cause trying to use that in high lvl is not that smart cause it doesnt deal that much damage to high lvl mobs 

[jmforeman02]

Umm... There is no LoS on Radial Javelin. There's a reason why reputation farms use two excaliburs for damage. I do think rep farms probably make him one of the most used frames ironically.

 

 

I disagree with some of your points here. Radial Javelin is not affected by sight. Also regarding the range of Radial Javelin, then it has a range of 25 meters when the ability is as max level and thats more than other ultimates. Super Jump could be better though.

 

Overall i think Excalibur is in a pretty good spot if compared to other frames likes Ember.

 

Line of Sight check was added a couple months ago. It can hit people behind cover, but only if some part of them is visible or was within the past couple of seconds. I also think Ember needs a rework Ory_Hara.

 

 

you  do know that radial blind  can stun any enemy in range , regardless of enemy lvl? 

 

So can Rhino Stomp or Prism. Neither of those have Line of Sight restrictions though (I mean on the blind for Prism).

Edited January 14, 2015 by jmforeman02

[NovusNova]

Only ability on Excal that has LoS is Radial Blind, Radial Javelin did get it at one point but it was reverted in the next hotfix after it was implemented.

[Wawazat]

discussion on excal has gone back and forth a lot. as the poster child he does receive rework just as much to make sure he is up to par. currently it seems that his issue is that he is too good at what he does: radial javelin. it does provide stun, has x-ray, huge range,and beneficial damage on all factions for having evenly split damage types. it can be recast right around the same time enemies are starting to get out of their daze from the previous cast meaning he can cc and just drop enemies without fear or thought. he is not bad because his move set is worse than anyone's, he is odd because his fourth ability truly is a better answer than any of his other moves. javelin provides arguably the same amount of cc as blind for the stun and the x-ray along with immediate recastablilty and there is no need for movement since directional melee and coptering do exist. I'm sure people who play him dont want to just press four (at least not all the time) but there is kinda no better option right now. (i love excal too)

[jmforeman02]

Only ability on Excal that has LoS is Radial Blind, Radial Javelin did get it at one point but it was reverted in the next hotfix after it was implemented.

Ok. If y'all say so. I'll fix that part in the original post.

[Kaokasalis]

The LoS in Radial Javelin was added by DE as response to stop the viver farming but when people found out forum acitivity skyrocketed with upset people and they removed it from both Mag and Excalibur.

 

 

 

Edit: Tenno´ed

Edited January 14, 2015 by Ory_Hara

[Invisum]

Line of Sight check was added a couple months ago. It can hit people behind cover, but only if some part of them is visible or was within the past couple of seconds. I also think Ember needs a rework Ory_Hara.

 

 

 

 

So can Rhino Stomp or Prism. Neither of those have Line of Sight restrictions though (I mean on the blind for Prism).

 

It was. During the Viver nightmare. It was then reverted from Radial Javelin after the outrage by pretty much everyone who's ever played him. I play Excal typically for daily rep, he undoubtedly does not have LoS on Radial Javelin.

 

--Edit: And you ninja'd me, that's what I get for taking so long to actually post a reply.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Invisum

[faiyde]

Personally superjump is my favourite part of excal, after his comparatively refined and elegant looks that is.

With power strength boosted you can go far higher then any directional attacks, but with the attack often doing the same/better job for 0 energy is a killer for it.

[Phoenix86]

I was half-kidding. But he is another compromise frame. Half-healer, half-warrior, good at neither. Most people don't even need healers now because of lifestrike. Not to mention that he doesn't look very good. He's got tiny arms, the start of a beer gut and a hunchback, plus antlers. Not exactly what I picture when I think healer/warrior.

 

* Evil Broberon is angry at you *

 

[Ognj]

Superjump should be removed and add a completely new ability. Super Jump is useless compared to melee lunge attack and stealth is only present durring the jump and dissapears as soon as you hit the ground.

Radial blind is weak, yes. But to be honest mirage should recieve then LoS as well, i mean i can cover everyone in blindness with her and with excal is only 2-3 of enemies in a group of 10. Either remove LoS or put it on all frames don't do these nerfs on specific frames just to try and "quickfix" these issues.

I do hope they will revisit all the old frames, that are on the bottom in their usefulness, I mean the excal only had one job, and thats rep farm. I played with Mag and Mag prime till i hit 30 and left them, far too situational and just bland frames. Nekros needs revisit, his press 3 to the end just bored me and he is one of my most used frame, i haven't used him once i got brakk. There are way more other frames than these ones that i named, any veteran player will know this.

I'm really sorry for this ramble, but i do hope DE does something this year in regards to warframes, and their usefulness. As a player who has every frame other than Excal Prime, I only use 5-6 warframes, and main with 2.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Ognj

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Moved to a more appropriate subforum.

[Thaumatos]

* Evil Broberon is angry at you *

 

HEXXUS!!!

[jmforeman02]

HEXXUS!!!

 

I don't get it.

[Thaumatos]

I don't get it.

FernGully?

 

It's a good movie.

 

I think it's still on Netflix if you have it.  Check it out.

[jmforeman02]

FernGully?

 

It's a good movie.

 

I think it's still on Netflix if you have it.  Check it out.

Ah ok.

 

I really hope they turn excal into something end game viable. My preference is a melee frame.

Edited January 15, 2015 by jmforeman02

[420degreequicksopeswag]

I was half-kidding. But he is another compromise frame. Half-healer, half-warrior, good at neither. Most people don't even need healers now because of lifestrike. Not to mention that he doesn't look very good. He's got tiny arms, the start of a beer gut and a hunchback, plus antlers. Not exactly what I picture when I think healer/warrior.

1. Lifestrike requires one to use melee

2. Lifestrike does not heal everyone

3. Renewal slows bleedout

4. Oberon looks like a goat

5. Oberon drops the base by pressing 4