Actually Impossible To Pay For Mod Upgrading/ducat Items. Deep Explanation Within. Please Support.

[TriggerHappyWhiteGuy]

Yes i do.

Yes i do.

YES I DO.

 

You play alot, 10-16 hours a day, I am sure you learned and are good enough that you don't NEED them to get the job done so this just means you WANT them but don't need them. Unless you are going to tell me that you suck that much that you HAVE to have these mods maxed to do anything.

[NocturneOfSolace]

You'll understand once you grind the sh$#( out of everything.

I have almost everything, I understand perfectly, whereas you do not.

Making it so that people have to repeatedly do the same thing over and over and over via RNG, is not good game design, it's a way of artificially padding out gameplay and making people play longer, when there are much better mechanics that can do the same thing without making someone feel burnt out, and tired of a game.

Grind has never kept me going in this game, it is not why I play warframe, and it is not what lets me keep playing warframe, if anything it's what turns me away from it and sometimes stops me from wanting to play it for weeks at a time

 

You play alot, 10-16 hours a day, I am sure you learned and are good enough that you don't NEED them to get the job done so this just means you WANT them but don't need them. Unless you are going to tell me that you suck that much that you HAVE to have these mods maxed to do anything.

If you can't say anything reasonable, keep your mouth shut

Edited February 20, 2015 by NocturneOfSolace

[denshibushi]

You play alot, 10-16 hours a day, I am sure you learned and are good enough that you don't NEED them to get the job done so this just means you WANT them but don't need them. Unless you are going to tell me that you suck that much that you HAVE to have these mods maxed to do anything.

 

 

If you can't say anything reasonable, keep your mouth shut

 

Seconded. The OP clearly stated he is a completionist and at this point getting everything in game is about all that is left for him. I find it hard to believe he is MR19 and he sucks.

[NocturneOfSolace]

Seconded. The OP clearly stated he is a completionist and at this point getting everything in game is about all that is left for him. I find it hard to believe he is MR19 and he sucks.

It's not necessarily why I said that, I said it because if your argument revolves around nonsense like

 

 

Unless you are going to tell me that you suck that much that you HAVE to have these mods maxed to do anything.

Ad Hominem, come on guys, that's a logical fallacy, if you're going to go with the whole 'oh you just suck/are crying over nothing' argument, you need to shut your mouth, period.

Especially since it's been established, that people don't want primed mods because 'they suck' it's because they're REALLY good

Edited February 20, 2015 by NocturneOfSolace

[shoryukensama]

perfect world 

[NocturneOfSolace]

perfect world 

Interesting you brought that up, as a founder named SunderedEcho who happens to be my friend mentioned to me that he found the extremely high grindwall disturbingly similar to perfect world

[SnakeWildlife]

perfect world 

 

That is indeed a worry...they ruined the Champions Online Economy....that game now only has between 75-350 online at any time.

[Neogeo]

perfect world

Don't. Just don't. You will get this thread.

[HyokaChan]

Interesting you brought that up, as a founder named SunderedEcho who happens to be my friend mentioned to me that he found the extremely high grindwall disturbingly similar to perfect world

Yes, it is disturbingly similar. However, do remember that PW's grind was invented by the Chinese.

 

And PWE never told Watframe to do it like this. However the similarities make it... hard to believe by most.

[ThePrimarchSystem]

Dont you just wish that days were longer? 

[SnakeWildlife]

Dont you just wish that days were longer?

With the current economy, discluding the double credit weekend, i would need to play around 55 hours in every 24.

[jennibear]

seems like you were heard, because they released a double cred weekend lol gg

 

the sadness once its gone tho :(

[SnakeWildlife]

seems like you were heard, because they released a double cred weekend lol gg

 

the sadness once its gone tho :(

 

Yea it certainly helps, but it is not a solution :<

[Doom_Bunny]

Bandaids! bandaids everywhere!

 

RNGesus is going to have fun with that rotation. If you miss one item you're pretty much stuffed for sometime. It's worse RNG then the void and it only gets worse as they add more items.

 

Still can't ignore the pricing. Even if rotation has started, that pricing still remains the same and needs a change.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Postal_pat

[Otakuwolf]

The only thing i agree is the pricing, WAY too high.

 

For leveling up the mods, i just level the ones i really like or plan to use, everything else is just "collection".

[Wanda_Ra]

Didn't the Ultimate warrior die of a heart attack, eventually. 

[SoyMalone]

This all seems to come down to what the 'End Game' goals are for Warframe.

While raids are on the way and will be considered the 'end game' when they arrive that isn't even the main distinction that I'm referring to.

Primed mods (and by association high level corrupted mods) seem to be the main topic of contention in the thread and links all three points in OP's post.

I think it helps to remind ourselves of what they actually are and (by implication) what they are 'meant for.'

 

Primed + Corrupted Mods

 

Primed mods are like primed frames are to their standard counterparts (but with a larger power gap.) 

The bottom line is that a player with no prime gear of any sort can happily run all levels of content within the game and enjoy it.

Primed mods are not unique. They are primed versions of mods which themselves are readily available and can be maxed for a reasonable cost. The high level corrupted mods (Transient Fortitude etc) are similarly linked.

 

Primed/corrupted mods are the polish to your perfect loadout when you replace/augment their regular counterpart, I don't think anyone would disagree with that? 

They give you something to shoot for at the top end of what is possible within the game. They are the power plateau of end game viability which inherently makes them part of the endgame itself.

 

Does it seem reasonable to ask that you spend 3 months (by OP's estimation) on something that will facilitate you mastering end game content. 

I personally think that is isn't unreasonable.

 

The problem comes when you multiply that. 

 

Actually, even before that there is another more fundamental causal effect of this issue - Warframe gives you too many choices on how to play.

 

If you focus on one 'way' of playing you can, with a reasonable amount of effort, acquire and max your chosen play style within the game. (I am not saying that the primed/corrupted mods are mutually exclusive with regards to builds and play styles of course.)

 

The problem then comes down to acquiring the Primed mods:- 

 

Baro Ki'Teer

 

He comes regularly and provides max quality mods for a price that is a big point of contention.

 

Would you believe me if I told you that for the last three appearances of Baro Ki'Teer I have farmed the required currency between each appearance?  - you probably might.

 

Would you also believe me if I said that I play 2/3 hours a day during the week and up to 5 at weekends? - maybe not so much.

 

That is, however, exactly what I have done. No reserves, no platinum shortcuts and no hand outs.

 

I contend that while doing this between every appearance of the Void Trader is rather grindy, it is entirely achievable by someone who considers themselves to be a semi casual player. 

Furthermore, this current iteration of Baro Ki'Teer (20th February) has only one item that has not been seen previously (and is a cosmetic item, to boot.)

 

It seems a lot more reasonable when you realise that within 2 months and 8 days of his first appearance- Baro Ki'Teer is starting to reuse stock items when he appears. If the trend continues that means you will have 4 opportunities a year to acquire any of the Primed mods.

 

People who have been bemoaning the farming to afford new trader items on every appearance don't realise that it has been in the 'wind up' phase of its implementation. The time when everything featured is new and nobody yet has them. Nine months down the line everyone will be complaining with comments like "Primed Continuity again? That's the third time this year!" and there will be no furore around how often the trader appears. 

 

Failing that, you can just buy them from another player. While the tax is high, it is achievable and unrestricted by time which goes a ways to balancing it with buying it from the trader outright.

 

That is how these issues appear to me and how they play out in my little corner of the world. Things are different for everybody and that is totally understandable. 

 

I personally think that OP is being too extreme in his description of the issues presented, and the repeated misuse of the word - 'impossible' in his post troubles me. 

 

TL;DR - If you want everything you will never be happy. At least have some perspective as to why.

 

 

 

(EDIT: for clarity)

Edited February 22, 2015 by SoyMalone

[SnakeWildlife]

The answer is in the last line of your post:

Because i am a completionist. And i am happy when i have everything.

 

After that i enjoy inviting and helping new players, because then i have more time to dedicate to bringing in new potential customers.

More customers = more revenue = happy DE and happy players and yadda yadda yadda.

[sakai4eva]

Amen brother! I didn't do the math, but I already figured out long ago that it's virtually impossible to keep up with the game at the rate that they are nerfing the drops and the increasing demand from the void trader. 

[Monolake]

 

TL;DR - If you want everything you will never be happy. At least have some perspective as to why.

 

 

 

How about understanding the point?  Its not about wanting everything, its notwanting to spend exorbital amounts of time to grind for everyhting. Isnt it clear?  

~28 hrs of pure grind to afford a set of voidtrader items (and thats not counting time on farming keys or waiting for others to host). The time it took to farm cores for 10-rank mods was very long even before, now its ~3 times worse.

Thats a second job right there. WF was never this grind-heavy.  

Edited February 22, 2015 by Monolake

[SoyMalone]

I totally get that is just how you are and I applaud your desire to help new players, there are far too few people willing to do so. 

The Inherent problem is with the logic of your post when taken in context of your OP. 

 

The boiled down implication from your reply is essentially - "I want to be able to completely consume all new content before more is released."

 

Once again I totally appreciate and respect that being your position, however that means you want the game to fundamentally change the lifespan/achieveability of content to match your ability to consume it.

Unfortunately that is never going to happen.

I would be interested to see what you would want the playstyle to look like in a given month/week. For instance - half spent on new content and half helping out players?

 

If you were the only player of the game I'm sure DE would work to fulfil that request, however they have the whole player base to take account of. 

 

Unfortunately that means the determining factor is money. If they don't have that then they aren't able to support the game.

 

I can guarantee the game would fail if all content were consumable by ALL players before the next new content is released. 

 

There is a difference between what you want, and what it actually viable as far as the game is concerned. By all means point out problems and imbalances, if people don't then nothing will change. However you need to recognise that in the future where you can consume all new content before receiving more DE cannot afford to make any new content.

[SoyMalone]

How about understanding the point? Its not about wanting everything, its notwanting to spend exorbital amounts of time to grind for everyhting. Isnt it clear?
~28 hrs of pure grind to afford a set of voidtrader items (and thats not counting time on farming keys or waiting for others to host). The time it took to farm cores for 10-rank mods was very long even before, now its ~3 times worse.
Thats a second job right there. WF was never this grind-heavy.

OP replied directly to my post and you seem not to have read it. I have subsequently replied to him.


I have no problem with seeing his point.

You seem to have a problem seeing mine.

I have broken down the effort required to max something that is arguably an end game achievement to do using my own experiences and OP's stance on the same. Do you have a problem with our take on it? If so please be more specific.

Void Trader items cycle (by current measures - less than 2.5 months, though the time scale is actually irrelevant) so there is always another chance to acquire items. You don't have to get them as soon as they first appear. They will appear again. I have stated with my playtime I am able to afford all the items available on each appearance of the trader. I have even described the whole cycle regarding the point at which all the items aren't new when he appears.


Everything you have said I don't understand I have actually made a point about.
WF isn't a second job, but if you want or demand everything at max as soon as it is available you are heaping more work on yourself and being unreasonable in the bargain.

What is wrong with being able to reasonably afford the primed mods when they appear but not maxing them right away? I get the desire to want everything asap, but the tone with which you are presenting your argument isn't helping your point.

edit - spelling fail Edited February 22, 2015 by SoyMalone

[KuroShiranui]

Just a little thing to point out. No biggie here, just a clarification.

 

Yeah its a lot to read in a short amount of time.

 

Iv done around 5000 hours, and yeah Ducats is very much achieveable, the credits however is way out of proportion and the reach of most.

Mods can be done with heavy draco farming or any other farming involving Nekros and mass-enemy-spawn gamemodes, but barely in the nick of time for the heaviest players.

 

This economy being so hard and tight....is gunna burn out hardcores, shoot the whales out of the waters, and depress new players.

 

Pardon me but I was kinda concerned about that 5k hours, so I took a peek at your profile ingame:

 

It clearly shows >1600 Hours there, not 5k hours as you have claimed.. I guess what you meant was steam ingame hours? But does WF available on Steam when there was Founder Package?

[Jax_Cavalera]

Just a little thing to point out. No biggie here, just a clarification.

 

 

Pardon me but I was kinda concerned about that 5k hours, so I took a peek at your profile ingame:

 

It clearly shows >1600 Hours there, not 5k hours as you have claimed.. I guess what you meant was steam ingame hours? But does WF available on Steam when there was Founder Package?

 

Pretty sure it was and also back then you could do a stat reset which a LOT of us players did to get our plat back to re-distribute it elsewhere.  I think that might have also reset things like those stats.. IF they even take into consideration the time we were playing way back then idk.

 

 

I think it's reasonable to want to buy all the content and to have it ranked up to max as well before the next batch come out and to also have enough to do the same for the next batch that are released.

 

With the credit boosters etc.. running quad credits I have been able to make 100k per run of T4C which is 50k per run normaly on a cred booster.  Takes me like 3 minutes to complete a run and at that rate to make 1mill credits it would be 1 hour non stop

 

So to hit that almost 2 mil mark to max the mod that's 2 hours  non stp with the cred booster.  but this does not include any fusion cores or their farming.. you rarely get an R5 core pack now days so the rate I can get those is a lot slower and at 550ish cores to max 1 mod.. that is the biggest time consumer.

 

say you got 1 every 5 minutes (impossible but lets say you were getting a R5 pack of 5 mods per 5 minutes.. that's still 9 hours approx.   9 hours bck to back just for 1 mod... realistically it takes closer to 10-15 minutes per R5 pack and that's going to make that timeframe 18-27 hours non stop just for that 1 mod

 

So yeah i think the time factor is pretty brutal and could definitely be reduced a bit.  I am ok kinda.. with the costing provided more prime parts dont' get nerfed in ducket exchange rates.. not as happy about how expensive the mods can be to max in fusion cores that's brutal.

[Omnimorph]

Credits are the real gate in Warframe - but that just means you have to play to win, which is a good thing.  (While at the same time, real "whales" will swallow the ludicrous exchange value of plat for credits.  Win-win all around :) )