Actually Impossible To Pay For Mod Upgrading/ducat Items. Deep Explanation Within. Please Support.

[SoyMalone]

You're missing the point tho.

 

Yes, a casual player can keep up with buying the base mods from the void trader.  That's not the issue here.

 

It doesn't matter if they're primed or just rare.  It doesn't matter if they come from a trader, drop tables, or an event.  The fact is, 10 rank mods are not feasible to rank within the update schedule of the game.

I apologise for missing your point in that regard, the thread has degenerated a little and the OP made a specific point about acquiring the mods/gear from the trader in addition to levelling them.

 

My question to you is - Why should it be feasible to rank them between every update of the game? (Also are you referring to big updates i.e. 15 - 16 or any update that includes mods/gear?)

 

I do indeed think that the current return from fusing mods to that level is too high.

However in a game sustained by people who buy platinum I can mainly see problems if everyone is able to acquire and max items very quickly (i.e. between every release of a new weapon/mod etc.)

The trouble with that is you inherently reduce the desire for platinum if you lower the global threshold.

 

Too much and people don't buy platinum because things are too easy to get so DE lose revenue they put into making new content -- the game dies.

Too little and people complain that things are virtually unobtainable without ridiculous effort, but some people occasionally spend Plat to get things. - the game also dies.

 

IMO we are in the middle of those two, albeit closer to the latter. 

 

The hard point comes when you balance what they can afford in revenue to how quickly the average player can consume the content.

 

While it isn't a fact that we love universally - developers love content lasting as long as possible because it increases the value of the work they put into it. If that also increases their revenue because people buy in game currency to compensate you could be forgiven for seeing how that is a win win scenario in their book.

 

As long as people continue to play and buy Plat at the current rate things are unlikely to drastically change.

 

I know the new PVP plans will help to invigorate the game because it will offer much more competition and variation for people that like not killing npcs all day.The best thing to do is provide positive alternatives or alterations that will allow them to do their jobs from a financial point of view but give us what we want from a gamers perspective.

[MaverickZero]

Seems everyone is still eager to take a bash at Snake. A real shame, that we can't pull our heads out of our asses to look at what matters is a really sad state.

 

I'll never understand those who enjoy 0.1% progress towards something. This isn't a second life with inescapable financial hardships. Taking a second and a third "job" just to keep up with costs of 'living'. It's supposed to be a video game.

Almost 20 pages and we still have people blatantly bashing ~

 

Mods ~~ I'm really missing your efficiency at cleaning threads AND issuing warnings. Really.

[SoyMalone]

Almost 20 pages and we still have people blatantly bashing ~

 

Mods ~~ I'm really missing your efficiency at cleaning threads AND issuing warnings. Really.

 

Take a look at my posts and tell me that I was "bashing" Snake. 

 

Some people want more accessible/maxable mods and some people think that is unrealistic. 

 

While not all people have been as respectful or composed as they could be, that hardly amounts to 'bashing'.

[jennibear]

I apologise for missing your point in that regard, the thread has degenerated a little and the OP made a specific point about acquiring the mods/gear from the trader in addition to levelling them.

 

My question to you is - Why should it be feasible to rank them between every update of the game? (Also are you referring to big updates i.e. 15 - 16 or any update that includes mods/gear?)

 

I do indeed think that the current return from fusing mods to that level is too high.

However in a game sustained by people who buy platinum I can mainly see problems if everyone is able to acquire and max items very quickly (i.e. between every release of a new weapon/mod etc.)

The trouble with that is you inherently reduce the desire for platinum if you lower the global threshold.

 

Too much and people don't buy platinum because things are too easy to get so DE lose revenue they put into making new content -- the game dies.

Too little and people complain that things are virtually unobtainable without ridiculous effort, but some people occasionally spend Plat to get things. - the game also dies.

 

IMO we are in the middle of those two, albeit closer to the latter. 

 

The hard point comes when you balance what they can afford in revenue to how quickly the average player can consume the content.

 

While it isn't a fact that we love universally - developers love content lasting as long as possible because it increases the value of the work they put into it. If that also increases their revenue because people buy in game currency to compensate you could be forgiven for seeing how that is a win win scenario in their book.

 

As long as people continue to play and buy Plat at the current rate things are unlikely to drastically change.

 

but I have to spend 1,000,000 credits to trade for the traders mods anyways, even after I buy my platinum, along with farming or buying fusion cores, and along with the huge cost of leveling the mod. It would take days and days all revolved around that 1 mod, and by that time, more mods/items are released. Some people don't have the time to farm all those ducats or credits like a lot of the people on warframe do.

 

I am a student, and I feel as though whenever I start working, there will be no time for me, since i will miss so many things that will cost too much to obtain when I get back to playing. 

 

I mean the point of me playing warframe is that I want to be an awesome unstoppable space ninja with all the equipment at my disposal whenever I need it, not to grind millions and millions of credits just to trade for a few mods, even AFTER i bought plat to trade for it.

 

It's just not cool man.

 

EDIT: All I want is the cost to go down, not to go away completely... it's not unreasonable for me to ask that.

Edited February 23, 2015 by jennibear

[MaverickZero]

Take a look at my posts and tell me that I was "bashing" Snake. 

 

Some people want more accessible/maxable mods and some people think that is unrealistic. 

 

While not all people have been as respectful or composed as they could be, that hardly amounts to 'bashing'.

I'm not biting any bait here. Go fish elsewhere. And preferably away from the forums.

 

And there's been blatant bashing alright. Otherwise we wouldn't have the Mods keeping an eye on this thread. Sadly they are not taking actions - at all.

[SoyMalone]

but I have to spend 1,000,000 credits to trade for the traders mods anyways, even after I buy my platinum, along with farming or buying fusion cores, and along with the huge cost of leveling the mod. It would take days and days all revolved around that 1 mod, and by that time, more mods/items are released. Some people don't have the time to farm all those ducats or credits like a lot of the people on warframe do.

 

I am a student, and I feel as though whenever I start working, there will be no time for me, since i will miss so many things that will cost too much to obtain when I get back to playing. 

 

I mean the point of me playing warframe is that I want to be an awesome unstoppable space ninja with all the equipment at my disposal whenever I need it, not to grind millions and millions of credits just to trade for a few mods, even AFTER i bought plat to trade for it.

 

It's just not cool man.

 

EDIT: All I want is the cost to go down, not to go away completely... it's not unreasonable for me to ask that.

Totally see where you are coming from, you don't want to come back onto a game to always feel like you're missing out on the good stuff.

 

The trouble is that Primed mods aren't unique (they are a degree more powerful than their normal counterparts) so should only be considered really for the polish/min max builds you care to run.

They are end game mods when it comes down to it so they should be harder to level and more beneficial to use than the normal mods in game.

While their current pricing means they are expensive however you can absolutely destroy max level content without them. They aren't necessary in that sense. 

Before primed mods you could indeed get the top level mods (even vault run mods) with relatively little effort. These mods only add to currently available ones to provide an extra edge on what is already available - just with a little extra on the bonus numbers. Does that make them so wrong for being harder to get?

 

Ok you can't get the top level mods as easily but is that such a bad thing?

[Davoodoo]

Totally see where you are coming from, you don't want to come back onto a game to always feel like you're missing out on the good stuff.

 

The trouble is that Primed mods aren't unique (they are a degree more powerful than their normal counterparts) so should only be considered really for the polish/min max builds you care to run.

They are end game mods when it comes down to it so they should be harder to level and more beneficial to use than the normal mods in game.

While their current pricing means they are expensive however you can absolutely destroy max level content without them. They aren't necessary in that sense. 

Before primed mods you could indeed get the top level mods (even vault run mods) with relatively little effort. These mods only add to currently available ones to provide an extra edge on what is already available - just with a little extra on the bonus numbers. Does that make them so wrong for being harder to get?

 

Ok you can't get the top level mods as easily but is that such a bad thing?

Getting maxed r10 mods actually isnt something that everyone can do, first ones come after 200-400 hours into game, compare that to other coop shooters where 300-400 hours is usually most or all of the stuff.

 

Theres actually no reason from gameplay standpoint for these mods to be so expensive.

 

They are more powerful and thus should require somewhat higher cost, but r10 mods actually require more effort than r5 mods, while legendary mods also require way more effort to get same result as r5 mod. Not that r10 mods arent hard to max already and having bare necessities for min maxing takes around 800h ingame time.

[Speedingbus]

DE doesn't know what to do for content I mean Primed Mods in first place seem imbalanced and desperate attempt to keep vets playing but then they nerf vet grinding spot for cores. I mean the void trader was suppose to lessen the grind initially I thought but instead its introduced a complete new grind farm.

[_Raiklar_]

I'll admit from a casual player who has a job and responsibilities. the economy in the game is rather daunting. especially when competing with other players. Yet the game as a whole is still fun. and on a side note i have often thought that the drop tables if this game are rather screwed up as i myself have spent a great number of days farming for parts to still not have what i need. My biggest issues though are with not being able to earn Plat in any other way that to trade or buy it out right. For someone that is not able to purchase it due to real life bills and the everyday cost of staying alive so that i can play the game in the first place. As well as I'm a casual player for the most part I don't have a lot of stuff to sell on trade cause every one either already has it and doesn't need it or the only what to pay 3 plat for it and its not worth the time it take to find that player to take pitty on you for trying to sell what everyone already has and doesn't need or its so easy to farm for that not only does everyone have it the have like a 1000 of them.

 

But, another issue is having to make a sacrifice to the syndicates is fine but when it comes to stuff i don't have and still need for myself now you want me to sell it to the syndicate just to raise my standing. Why would not just doing the missions they assign you be enough??

 

thus increasing the need to do mindless farming. which increases the frustration at not being able to have the things you want. and as some people that play primarily solo due to there schedules or have no other way to join a party other than pugs it is rather tedious and unrewarding in the long run anyway.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Ookami_Nihonto

[Qynchou]

3 months every day

10-16 hours

90 days

900 hours

So in 900 hours of grinding you got 203 rare cores? You said 3 months, which means that was before core gain nerf. So you might say: BUT HEY! I just played the game and farmed overall!

Yeah well, if you want to max a PRIMED mod, why the hell wont you actually try to do it? Rather than floating along expecting to get the resources needed to max it casually?

 

Besides whats with this mentality of actually NEEDING to max primed mods? Most of them outdo their counterparts at rank 7 which is very reasonable.

_____

You need approximately 1100 Ducats and 800,000 Credits per <2 weeks.

 

THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE.

 

Impossible?

 

I can get 50k credits in 2 minutes. Thats 40 minutes of farming to get enough credits for TWO WEEKS. 40 MINS FOR TWO WEEKS. LOL IMPOSSIBLE.

 

1100 ducats?

Theres SO many people advertising survival and defense invites where prime parts rain from the sky and youre saying its impossible? lmfao.

1100 ducats. 10 for cheapest, 20 for uncommon and 50 for rare. Take average: 26 per item. Roughly 43/(14 days) items. Roughly 3 prime parts per day to get. MEANWHILE youre farming ducats you also get credit rewards for the missions to complete.

wow, so impossible, oh my gosh, so impossible. 1 void defense run can net you 5 prime parts within an hour.

___________

 

No offense but I will say this, if you cant keep up with the void trader (WHICH YOU DONT HAVE TO LOL) while playing 10-16 hours per day, youre not a good player.

 

___________
 

People think they have to max primed mods immediately. YOU assume primed mods are for new players (you clearly state that its impossible for new players to farm this much). They arent. Primed mods are endgame. Primed mods come every 2 weeks. Primed mods are exclusive.

 

I have absolutely no idea why this posts is upvoted so much, it truly baffles me.

 

 

And by the way, for the record, before the core nerf it took around 20 hours of T4 survival to max a PRIMED MOD, which should have been a piece of cake for an elite player.

 

Opening post is a bunch of complete nonsense.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Qynchou

[denshibushi]

Totally see where you are coming from, you don't want to come back onto a game to always feel like you're missing out on the good stuff.

 

The trouble is that Primed mods aren't unique (they are a degree more powerful than their normal counterparts) so should only be considered really for the polish/min max builds you care to run.

They are end game mods when it comes down to it so they should be harder to level and more beneficial to use than the normal mods in game.

While their current pricing means they are expensive however you can absolutely destroy max level content without them. They aren't necessary in that sense. 

Before primed mods you could indeed get the top level mods (even vault run mods) with relatively little effort. These mods only add to currently available ones to provide an extra edge on what is already available - just with a little extra on the bonus numbers. Does that make them so wrong for being harder to get?

 

 

I can understand your point. The primed mods are more powerful duplicates of other mods in the game. As such I concede ranking them up instantly is probably not what the developers have in mind. However, what about the other rank 10 mods in the game? Redirection (Sentinel and WF), Vitality (Sentinel and WF), Steel Fiber (Sentinel and WF. Although honestly steel fiber can contend for the most useless mod in the game), Serration, Hornet Strike? None of those mods has (or will have I think) a primed version. I also think they would be characterized as necessary instead of optional.  I was MR16 and I still didn't have any of those maxed. And the reason was the credit cost. It took multiple credit boosters and focus just on those just to complete them. Fusion costs need to be looked at. 

 

And while I am at it, why are the damage mods for pistol and rifle rank 10 mods while the damage mods for shotgun and melee are rank 5? Does that make any sense at all? There can be a primed point blank but not a primed serration? Considering how long it took me to rank up my serration I can imagine how long and expensive it would be to upgrade a rank 15 mod.

 

TL;DR I agree with you that maxing every primed mod before the next update is probably not reasonable or what the developers envisioned but I agree with the OP that fusion costs of mods should be looked at.

[jennibear]

Ok you can't get the top level mods as easily but is that such a bad thing?

Well, I pretty much slapped myself when primed flow was released, the new mods and items is what I work for because i have everything else and have played for so long. I missed it and realised I had to spend 1,000,000 creds on it or wait potentially a month for it.

 

With the cost of upgrading my primed continuity I couldn't purchase it, now having 8,000,000 from double credit weekend I could purchase it, but it would bring me down to 7 mil + about 2.2 mil or more to max it, that would bring me down to the significant amount of 4,800,000 credits remaining (estimated, depending on how many fusion > duplicates).

 

That is near half of my credits from about 100 rounds (about 80,000 creds per round) of dark sector grind this weekend with 4X credit boost.

 

Without double weekend credit boost that would have taken double the amount, 200 rounds of the same thing over and over, 5 minutes a round roughly this would have taken 1000 minutes = 16.6667 hours of repetition to trade for/max 2 mods.

 

But this isn't the only thing, we have to worry about having enough credits for our kubrows, for crafting, for the new trader equipment, to trade platinum, I was already struggling.

 

This is all optional of course, but I love warframe, it just costs too much for new "content" releases, and I bet my 8 hour grind this weekend will be depleted by the middle of next month, even if I don't trade for the mods, which I know I don't have to, but this is all I have left to do in warframe, perfecting my builds to being the absolute best.

[jennibear]

 

I can get 50k credits in 2 minutes. Thats 40 minutes of farming to get enough credits for TWO WEEKS. 40 MINS FOR TWO WEEKS. LOL IMPOSSIBLE.

 

 

 

assuming you can get 20 t4 capture/ext keys every 12 days lined up.. how long does it take to farm for the keys? 15 rounds of some defense missions in higher lvl planets for a chance at the key you want? oh no big deal.

 

edit: or you could buy some key packs, but hey only a chance for the key you want in there too.. and depending on if you spent plat or use 25,000 from syndicate it could take longer.

Edited February 23, 2015 by jennibear

[SnakeWildlife]

Agree with jennibear,  its great if you have a bunch of well-earned void capture keys, but once you've burned them all to meet a tight credit deadline...what then?

 

Unless youre permanently using a double credit booster AND own Sechura (limited to an alliance of less than 5000 people) or some 10k player owned mission and are allowed to play there with zero tax, you cant keep that up forever, at least not for long.

 

You will currently find your keys or credits, draining faster than you can get back if youre trying to keep up to date with all credit costs, mod/fusion core regain, ducats.

Ducats being the most realistic target.

 

You also wont be getting hardly any mods to fuse through void capture or Sechura/defense 5-wave runs. Draco hoarding is probably one of only a couple of ways to get fusion cores, and even IF you spend all your time doing that, you still dont have enough credits.

 

You cant be in 3 places at once, at most, 2.

Edited February 23, 2015 by SnakeWildlife

[Jax_Cavalera]

assuming you can get 20 t4 capture/ext keys every 12 days lined up.. how long does it take to farm for the keys? 15 rounds of some defense missions in higher lvl planets for a chance at the key you want? oh no big deal.

 

edit: or you could buy some key packs, but hey only a chance for the key you want in there too.. and depending on if you spent plat or use 25,000 from syndicate it could take longer.

 

 

Hey hey let's not get into the facts here I think it was good to see that he managed to debunk the opening post slandering it instead of being logical and thorough with his methodology.

 

On a more serious note, yeah I am going to guess that they are running with old T4 keys from pre-syndicate nerfs and once that pot of honey runs out they will be wondering why it takes so damn long to get just 1 of those keys because we all know that to farm one T4 key takes no less than 15-20 minutes.

 

To get 20 of those. well that's 20x15  (although let's be serious to hit wave 20 you might only shave 2 minutes off that 20 minute mark if you have an elite squad to run with so it's more or less 17-20 minutes and that's assuming you get what you came for and not some junk mod or a lower tier tower key/wrong tower key as well.

 

sooo 300 minutes to get the keys assuming they have the luck of a legend and got exactly what they wanted every time and they sped through at the speed of light.  (never gonna happen but ok just for fun)  then they say 40 minutes to get them ran through and this earns the credits.)

 

340 minutes s starting to look a little bit higher than the originally stated time to achieve the goal.  More often than not you won't get the tower key every single time either it can now be a fusion core pack instead and in that scenario you are looking at having to do at least double the runs to get the end esult so that's 640 minutes minimum to keep it realistic.

 

so 40 minutes bloats out to 10.6 hours of gameplay and htat's JUST for the credits excludes all prime parts and duckets needed to buy the items.

 

You would probably make an additional 5-10k creds per run trying to farm for the tower keys so after the 40 runs to get the tower keys that leaves you with a bonus 400k credits which would then reduce the number of T4 runs you have to do to get the rest.  but that's still 600 in game minutes spent just for 400k and hopefully the right T4 keys.

 

seems to be a LOT of work and not much fun to do every 2 weeks.. and this all excludes the fusion cores and duckets needed to get the items and at 10 duckets per item being the average.. to raise the 1100 duckets it is going to take a lot more than 20 T4 runs to make that up.

 

 

EDIT:

 

TL:DR  The maths is cutting out the logic behind how you achieve this consistently

 

 

The other thing would be : what kind of quality of gaming experience is this?  they give us amazing frames and gear and we do what with it?? ignore 90% of it in favour of the small slice that can speed farm the quickest.. or miss out on valuable primed mods etc

 

RNG can be a very cruel and unkind mistress and it is one that I would not like to tempt fate with on a second shot at some of the items in rotation.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Jax_Cavalera

[jennibear]

 

sooo 300 minutes to get the keys assuming they have the luck of a legend and got exactly what they wanted every time and they sped through at the speed of light

LOL right on, made me laugh so hard.

 

It honestly wouldn't be half as grueling if they just re-released that previous reward of T4 keys at even 50,000 or 100,000 syndicate standing if 25,000 was wrong to them. I knew I should have stocked up too when I had the chance.

[Gilmaesh]

you can't keyshare?

Edited February 23, 2015 by Gilmaesh

[Jax_Cavalera]

LOL right on, made me laugh so hard.

 

It honestly wouldn't be half as grueling if they just re-released that previous reward of T4 keys at even 50,000 or 100,000 syndicate standing if 25,000 was wrong to them. I knew I should have stocked up too when I had the chance.

 

I got 80 T4C keys at the time and have 30 left.. my stockpile is dwindling now so i'm getting scared that I'll have to start the evil farming process :(

 

I don't like the figures I quoted because I know just how close to reality they are and this doesn't even take into account how long it can be to find a 4 player crew willing to key farm that have the gear to actually withstand the mobs to reach that goal.  More often than not there s 1/4 players in a squad being carried and this has a chance at introducing a fail in there every so often which means 20 minutes of your life were just wasted with nothing to show for it.

 

I agree, if they released the T4 key packs of 5 at 50 000 standing I'd get in on that (100k is a lot in light of recent nerfs to standing earning abilities)  Really though 25k standing should be enough for 5 keys since a mastery 21 player can only earn 22k standing without doing bonus missions per day.  That isn't even enough to buy 5 keys each day and there aren't that many players at this mastery level either right?

 

EDIT :

 

Gilmaesh  I tried keysharing alot and what nomally happens is this -  

 

1. Recruiting : Keyshare T4 Speed Farming

2. Group farms the T4 key and 1 member "has to go"

3. The remaining 3 members get ready to keyshare so I offer to go first

4. We run it and get a prime part one of them were after so they bail withholding their key from the share

5. Since is it just me and 1 other player he bawks wasting his key on just 2 so we go ok lets recruit 2 more in for the run... we spend the next  to 10 minutes trying to find someone that isn't Mastery 1 or 2 for our T4 run since lato and skana don't kill mobs in T4 that well.

 

mission is usually NOT a speed run in the end anyway as we end up having to carry.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Jax_Cavalera

[Johannez]

I am a R19 founder and 'No real life' gamer who spends around 10-16 hours per day on Warframe, farming resources, credits, ducats and just about everything. I not only farm the game heavily for resources for myself, but i help many new players get a good start from the rather depressing and deep bottom.

 

For me, this has given me an excessive amount of everything because i have been playing like a zombie, at great sacrifice to my life, both in time and financially. I just love Warframe that much. I even took a picture with Chris Barry in my Warframe shirt (thats Rimmer from the british version of Red Dwarf)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74747669/Paul%20with%20Chris%20Barrie.png

 

Being in this position allows me to see very clearly whenever things are affordable, expensive, or downright impossible...and unfortunately recent additions to the game, are making things impossible, even for a 'No life' gamer and heavy investor like me. Which is why i hope DE will read this, and take my calculations and evidence based advice, very seriously.

 

So having played way too much Warframe you would think, what could possibly be urking someone like me? Well:

 

 

------------------

Part 1:  Upgrading Mods - Their costs.

------------------

 

Everytime you release a mod with x10 Rank-Up Levels, it takes the community a huge amount of time and resources to be able to rank up this mod.

 

This screenshot is 3 Real-Life months worth of Fusion cores, earned through constant regular play to achieve, and i am going to use them to rank up a Primed Mod, of which one of these is being released, in intervals of less than 2 weeks each.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74747669/InsaneCost.jpg

 

It will cost me approximately 4 months 'No life' work, to rank up this mod.

It will cost me over x700 R5 Fusion Cores or over x3000 mod duplicates of the same polarity, to rank up this mod.

It will cost me over 1.8 million credits with fusion cores, and over 4 million credits with mod duplicates, to rank up this 1 mod.

 

I have blown all my mods. (after this screenshot of course, and yes the duplicates too are spent)

My gross Credit income since the beginnings of Warframe in constant-play, is 140,000,000 credits, it has already been drained down to 56,000,000 and these mods to buy and upgrade are asking for an approx  3,200,000 Credits, per <2 weeks.

What makes this even more rediculous...is that for most of my time playing Warframe, iv had almost constant Double-Credit booster enabled.

 

THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE to afford, and to maintain in this game. Even super rich players, cannot afford to keep this up for long. This throws New Players into the trashcan, before they have even started. Any business, in order to generate revenue, needs more customers.

 

CONCLUSION: You must stop with these outrageous costs, before its too late. Fix your economy to allow people who play the game, to afford what they work hard to achieve, before you intimidate and terrify them away. It is needed, and needed fast. It can be done in many and/or multiple ways, preferably all of them:

-Fusion Core drop rate significantly increased.

-Fusion Core potency significantly increased in Mod Fusion.

-Credit Cost of Fusion Significantly Decreased

 

Mod Fusion is currently unaffordable and impossible, by a whopping 2/3rds over any possible effort that can be made to keep up. So you must understand why the cost of Fusion, needs a TITANIC sized nerf.

.

 

-----------------

Part 2: Ducat/Credit costs of Ducat purchases.

-----------------

 

If you thought farming for Fusion Cores and Mods for Fusion took up so much time and resources, well then how would you feel if the game said, whilst you're doing that you need to spend another huge amount of time and resources, farming for Ducats and even more credits, to keep up with Ducat Purchases.

 

Rich people are very quickly having their hard-earned pile of Void keys Drained away by the large amount of time needed per <2 weeks, to get enough Ducats to make a Ducat-Purchase. Whilst people who arent that rich, are very swiftly running out of keys, and holding onto the legs of those who are burning their keys WITH them.

 

It takes a great deal of time to Farm for keys. I recommend Excavations, theyre quite helpful.

It takes a good portion of time to also run those Void missions for potential Ducats.

You have less than 2 weeks to farm approximately 1100 Ducats (the average so far)

You have less than 2 weeks to farm for multiples of 100,000+ Cost Ducat Purchases, whilst trying to have enough credits to put into fusion.

 

You need approximately 1100 Ducats and 800,000 Credits per <2 weeks.

 

THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE to afford even by rich players in the long run (were currently being drained of everything we have in reserve and spending countless hours trying to get those resources back) and new/regular players are only barely able to afford 1 Ducat-Purchase per <2 weeks.

 

CONCLUSION: Once again, you must stop with these outrageous costs, and Fix your economy. Any of these may help to allow people to actually afford any of this:

-Reduce:

> Primed Mods from 300 - to - 200 Ducats.

> Primed Mods cost No credits (it already costs a unrealistic fortune in rank-up costs)

 

> Ducat-Purchase Weapons to cost no more than 300 Ducats

> Ducat-Purchase Weapons to cost no more than 100,000 Credits

 

> Miscellaneous Sigils cost no more than 20 Ducats, 20,000 Credits

> Miscellaneous Costume Parts cost no more than 50 Ducats, 20,000 Credits

 

 

------------------

Part 3:  Why such high reductions in Costs and Boosts to the Economy and Drop tables?

------------------

 

Easy math once you see the big picture.

 

You need to spend a large amount of time every <2 Weeks to earn:

-Approx  1100 Ducats

-Approx  800,000 Credits

 

This is impossible for new players, and becoming impossible for rich/hardcore players to maintain affording.

 

And whilst youre playing, are expected on the side within each <2 Weeks to save up to afford:

-Approx 2000+ Mods

-Approx 2,500,000 Credits

 

You need to farm as much as 4 months nonstop gaming, in less than 2 weeks, constantly.

 

------------------

OVERALL CONCLUSION:

------------------

 

THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE.  

 

The economy is close to shattering, because there is no possible way to keep up. If this isn't addressed soon, the bubble will burst with the potential effects being mass desertion from non rich players, and players who ARE rich, will start to hit the barrier of impossibility, and be forced out.

 

Much business revenue will be lost, including from *Whale players who are forced out to due to things literally being out of reach.

 

*(Whale: Common gamers term for a player with so much real life money, they just buy everything in-game, as much as they like)

 

My message to DE, is to see and understand this predicament that we the players are currently in, and reforge Ducat-Purchase Costs to a much lower level, reforge Rank-Up costs to a much lower level. And prevent a large loss of business when the bubble pops.

 

You are currently working on Expanding Mods 2.0 in the Council channel (a huge influx of new mods). Further worrying your dedicated players, as the 'Bar of Possibility' seems set to go even higher over the 'Impossible bar'.  Please consider ingame costs! Before its too late.

 

Sorry, yet again for the wall of text, i can only hope that i can continue to bring my friends into Warframe, and keep supporting you whilst i can, but at the current rate, soon i too (even though i have invested much time and money into the game) will hit the mark where i cannot afford the latest released items/mods. Once i hit that mark, i will likely be forced to leave. With the realisation that after all i have done, i am unable to reach what i work for. Please do not continue the current economy, as everything is becoming far too overpriced and out of reach.

 

I can only do so much in 10-16 hours of Warframe per day.

 

I am on the verge of just breaking apart. My reserves, are quickly being destroyed by the impossible demand that you ask of us.

.

.

.

 

EDIT:  What happens if you want to BUY your way into beating the wall of impossibility? This is what happens:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/74747669/TheMath.png

 

I have done the calculations for you, to show you how much platinum you need to spend, per <2 weeks, in order to remain on top of the current speed of R10 Mod releases. Presuming that only 1 Primed Mod is released per <2 weeks. And this does not include the amount of farming required (still) to earn void keys and spend void keys to obtain the 1100 ducats.

 

I diddn't read it but gave you a Kudo. I know your right, I'll prolly read it later.

[Renegade343]

It's impossible for normal humans, who cannot dedicate whole life to the game.

I am not too sure about you though, but playing for probably around 900 - 1000 hours now (with a hefty break in between), only playing more in the holidays (and spending around 100 hours in PVP), and I already did manage to get a Primed Mod to Rank 8 (because Rank 8 is quite enough), and still have enough Cores to max it out, and another Primed mod, using all the Fusion Cores I have right now. 

 

And also have quite a lot of Prime parts ready to be traded for Ducats. 

[Loswaith]

...

Any programmer worth his salt knows to avoid having a computer run through any O(2^n) time complexity at all costs.  Somehow DE's devs feel it's ok to force humans to do so manually?  Even for as small a maximum as 10, that's no way to treat a human's time.

The issues isnt so much the 2^n fusion costs as it is that the system was based in the normal mods being a maximum of 5 with a handfull of common/uncommon mods being the exception as they were growth mods (health, shields, armour, and base damage).  The system unfortunatly hasnt grown since its conception back with that was the expected normal occurance that mods would only be rank 5 and rank 10s the exception to the rule, instead of like now being as much the norm as 5 rank mods.

 

I'm faily sure we can agree that with rank 5 mods the 2^n is actually a reasonable concept.

 

 

I have been doing it between every time he has appeared. I play about 2-3 hours weekdays and 5 on weekends on average. I don't think that counts as hardcore time and I still manage so it certainly isn't impossible. Grindy and somewhat boring at times sure, but now that he has started to repeat items in his stock you will have chances to get things you might have missed.

Actually thats not casual playing time at all and does count as hardcore playing (on the low side of hardcore but still hardcore).  You play multiple hours every day and average more than 20 hours a week.  Keep in mind the typical length of a single player game these days is considered to be normal at about 20 hours of gameplay.

 

The other thing is do you do anything else in game besides gathering for the ducats for the week (other than you can gan by just farming for ducats)?

 

 

....

1100 ducats?

Theres SO many people advertising survival and defense invites where prime parts rain from the sky and youre saying its impossible? lmfao.

1100 ducats. 10 for cheapest, 20 for uncommon and 50 for rare. Take average: 26 per item. Roughly 43/(14 days) items. Roughly 3 prime parts per day to get. MEANWHILE youre farming ducats you also get credit rewards for the missions to complete.

wow, so impossible, oh my gosh, so impossible. 1 void defense run can net you 5 prime parts within an hour.

....

Your maths is completely wrong on this one.  The average part price is no where near 26 ducats per item.

There are actually only 22 parts that will give 50 ducats and 38 parts each give 10 and 20 ducats.  The 50 ducat parts are also vastly lower in drop chances.

If we presume all are equal drop chance (a reality we cant actually presume) the average is still only ~22.86 ducats each.

In reality the average is something like the average of all part values, while a part value is part price * drop chance.

 

The only reality we can presume (becuse we dont have the full data) is the minimum ducat rate (the mode cost on droped parts will be 10).  Thus 110 parts per visit needed to be farmed.  So for higher cost ones lets just round it to 100.

 

Taking the time to farm a key and get the part is going to be about 15 mins on average per part (it can take 15-20 mins just to get a random key too).  So some 1500 minutes or about 25 hours just for earning the ducates for trader alone.  So basically you have to play an 'event' for 25 hours to get the 'event' rewards.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Loswaith

[Renegade343]

Taking the time to farm a key and get the part is going to be about 15 mins on average per part (it can take 15-20 mins just to get a random key too).  So some 1500 minutes or about 25 hours just for earning the ducates for trader alone.  So basically you have to play an 'event' for 25 hours to get the 'event' rewards.

But you see, you also have 12-14 days to obtain 1,100 Ducats, meaning on average, you would need to get between 79 to 92 Ducats per day (rounded to the nearest and highest integer due to Ducat units using integers). That would mean if one is rather unlucky and obtains 10 Ducat Prime parts every time, 8 to 10 Keys (non-Endless) are needed to be run (Sabotage cuts this down by roughly a half), or 2 to 3 Keys (Endless, up to Wave 30/35/40). 

 

And they take around an hour or two, in which they can also be compressed into a weekend, if you so choose (in which I do that as well). 

[letir]

I am not too sure about you though, but playing for probably around 900 - 1000 hours now (with a hefty break in between), only playing more in the holidays (and spending around 100 hours in PVP), and I already did manage to get a Primed Mod to Rank 8 (because Rank 8 is quite enough), and still have enough Cores to max it out, and another Primed mod, using all the Fusion Cores I have right now. 

 

And also have quite a lot of Prime parts ready to be traded for Ducats. 

I've upgrade 2, and now i'm totaly out of cores. How many Primed stuff awaits in the future?

[Renegade343]

I've upgrade 2, and now i'm totaly out of cores. How many Primed stuff awaits in the future?

Quite a lot. 

 

But I am still obtaining Cores right now, and I am holding down a huge stockpile of them, not to mention that I also use other Mods than Fusion Cores as Fusion power. 

[Onisa]

But you see, you also have 12-14 days to obtain 1,100 Ducats, meaning on average, you would need to get between 79 to 92 Ducats per day (rounded to the nearest and highest integer due to Ducat units using integers). That would mean if one is rather unlucky and obtains 10 Ducat Prime parts every time, 8 to 10 Keys (non-Endless) are needed to be run (Sabotage cuts this down by roughly a half), or 2 to 3 Keys (Endless, up to Wave 30/35/40). 

 

And they take around an hour or two, in which they can also be compressed into a weekend, if you so choose (in which I do that as well). 

Actually, if one is rather unlucky one would walk away with 'prizes' other than prime parts.