4G3NT_0R4NG3 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Warframe builder lists Turbulence's outer radius for my Zephyr build at 35.5m. I decided to test that. I placed a waypoint on a level 30 Grineer elite lancer, moved 5m away from him, and continuously backed up 1m at a time. At about 15m and onwards, I was being hit by every single one of his shots. Turbulence's outer radius: 35.5m Actual effective range: about 15m On top of Turbulence's utterly stupid and broken mechanics, I have proof that enemy accuracy actually overpowers Turbulence's debuff, making it nearly worthless against all hitscan weapons. There is another issue I would like to bring up. After doing copious amounts of testing on both Ceres and T4 Void missions, I have made a discovery that is equally remarkable and appalling. Since Bombard rockets are not hitscan, they should be deflected when they hit the inner radius, right? This is not what happens. The rocket still changes direction on contact with the inner radius, but because of the homing effect, after entering the inner radius, the rocket will immediately curve back around and hit Zephyr directly. Unless you move, the rocket will hit you directly every single time. The game is obviously trying to have Turbulence deflect Bombard rockets away from you, but fails miserably due to the homing effect. Edited February 21, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3 Removed profanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns2PvP Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 (edited) Heatseeking, not wind seeking ;) Edited February 21, 2015 by deadinflict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4G3NT_0R4NG3 Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 Heatseeking, not wind seeking ;) Are you attempting to say that this obvious bug makes sense? I would try to think of a counterargument, but you can only have a counterargument if there's an actual argument in the first place. It's a bug, not anything sensible ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
007-Creed Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 For long time i never understood very well why zephyr worked perfect on void against hitscan weapon units and on grineer star maps worked randomly beeing the exact same enemies and weaponry, sometimes redirected bullets other times was like no ability was active. Zephyr is a very good frame but i quit her for some time, until now. As this issue was a bit frustrating i did some experiments along with a friend and we found the problem, turbulence doesnt redirect incoming hitscan bullets from enemies shooting behind cover, only for the host. This explains why on void it was never a problem, there are no places where enemies take cover while on start map there are alot of objects, halls and doors. Its normal beeing hit sometimes but when they shoot behind cover is like no debuff is beeing applied, full damage taken. The same happens if the host is inside a teammates turbulence. The build i play is the build i used to make the test which includes +93% range (only relevant ability modifier) that gives 25m (default outer shield) + 23.3m (overextended 5 + stretch 5 + narro minded 6) = 48.3m outer shield for hitscan accuracy debuff. Checking carefully, enemies that are on open fight dont hit me, hitmarkers point towards enemies behind cover. This issue doesnt seem to happen for clients Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Variatas Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Well that's weird, but might explain why it's so lackluster against Grineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-N7-Leonhart Posted March 12, 2015 Share Posted March 12, 2015 (edited) Turbulence doesn't work like that. Most corrupted enemies from voids have projectile weapons (not instant=not hit-scan) which are perfectly deflected by Zephyr's turbulence "inner shield". The hit-scan weapons (instant) used by most of the grineer are not perfectly deflected by the inner air shield, but instead are getting an Accuracy De-buff that is so great that makes them miss you 95% of the time, but not all the time. The accuracy de-buff does not make you unhitable (like against projectile weapons) and is induced by the "outer air shield" which has a much greater range than the inner one, but still a limited range. Any enemy that is outside of this invisible bubble will not suffer an accuracy de-buff on hit-scan weapons. So obviously it will be less effective against pure grineer and more effective against corpus and corrupted which have mostly projectile weapons (that have travel time). That being said just to make sure you understand the mechanics perfectly, it would make sense that the grineer behind cover don't suffer accuracy de-buff, because they are not affected by the "wind" of the outer shield. Besides, the accuracy de-buff isn't perfect, so it makes sense you will still get hit. Edited March 12, 2015 by -BM-StormVanguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
007-Creed Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 Turbulence doesn't work like that. Most corrupted enemies from voids have projectile weapons (not instant=not hit-scan) which are perfectly deflected by Zephyr's turbulence "inner shield". The hit-scan weapons (instant) used by most of the grineer are not perfectly deflected by the inner air shield, but instead are getting an Accuracy De-buff that is so great that makes them miss you 95% of the time, but not all the time. The accuracy de-buff does not make you unhitable (like against projectile weapons) and is induced by the "outer air shield" which has a much greater range than the inner one, but still a limited range. Any enemy that is outside of this invisible bubble will not suffer an accuracy de-buff on hit-scan weapons. So obviously it will be less effective against pure grineer and more effective against corpus and corrupted which have mostly projectile weapons (that have travel time). That being said just to make sure you understand the mechanics perfectly, it would make sense that the grineer behind cover don't suffer accuracy de-buff, because they are not affected by the "wind" of the outer shield. Besides, the accuracy de-buff isn't perfect, so it makes sense you will still get hit. I know how turbulence works, inner shield redirects all incomming non-hitscan whatever the range is, but outer shield applies ranged hitscan debuff. Debuff is difference from imunity i know that too, i also mentioned is working for clients but not hosts...so is a bug...debuff is not being applied to enemies behind cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nina3004 Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 hey the Turbulence dosent protect the user but others only is it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunfaiz Posted April 5, 2015 Share Posted April 5, 2015 hey the Turbulence dosent protect the user but others only is it I don't really understand the question. But i'll respond with what i think is the answer. the way turbulence works is it deflects projectiles (Corpus) and causes loss of accuracy of hit scan weapons ( Grineer ). As for the second part of your statement: Yes it can protect allies and even the cryopod if the range is large enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancars Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Before the latest update it was working fine. Now i'm being hit by bullets near and far while it is active. I was running a mission I've ran several times and i almost died several times from bullet fire while it was active. I had my healing furis with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PickleMonster21 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Were you against Corpus or Grineer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancars Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Were you against Corpus or Grineer? Grineer. Its always deflected there bullets till this update. I haven't had this issue when they fixed it and now its broken again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abb12355 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Recently, DERebecca announced that zephyrs turbulence was going to be fixed to deflect hitscan weapons. Yayyyyyyyy! But the main problem with Zephyr in the void is the homing rockets that bombards have. Usually, the homing rocket gets deflected, but it comes back to you as a direct hit. My idea was to make turbulence reflect the rocket back to the enemy just like mesa's shatter shield or chroma's elemental ward (Ice). But it shouldn't do any damage to the bombard What are you're thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiBBz Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 (edited) Recently, DERebecca announced that zephyrs turbulence was going to be fixed to deflect hitscan weapons. Yayyyyyyyy! But the main problem with Zephyr in the void is the homing rockets that bombards have. Usually, the homing rocket gets deflected, but it comes back to you as a direct hit. My idea was to make turbulence reflect the rocket back to the enemy just like mesa's shatter shield or chroma's elemental ward (Ice). But it shouldn't do any damage to the bombard What are you're thoughts on this? no... no i dosent! the missile is deflected but bugs out and blows shortly after being defelcted!... you can test this yourself on 30-40+ levelled bombards... dont use turbulence and you will almost certainly get 1 shot - 2 shot however when using turbulence you notice dmg is not as severe but still pretty bad! but i 100% agree with you that Zephyr really needs fixed in that aspect as someone that has recently just got back into playing with her... i really wish this would get fixed Edited June 2, 2015 by DiBBz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApexGuardian Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Also zephyr's turbulence should have a consistent direction which it launches things like the napalm ''rockets'' which get tossed straight into the ground and still damages you! Turbulence should, yes, toss it back at them or for the bombards toss it back and negate the homing effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLSH_BNG Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Homing rockets need a maximum distance they can travel before detonating anyway so that you can actually get a chance to outrun them. Reduce their manuverability a bit too so they can't turn on a dime. That way, when they fix Zephyr's Turbulence to deflect them they'll be sent back, try to turn around, eventually run out of fuel and explode. Likely harmlessly to players. In any case, deflected missiles should be changed to a neutral faction so they can damage enemies too. I don't care that the bombard's on your team, if you get hit with and exploding missile, you should get hurt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impact6 Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I fully agree with OP. S#&$ is in need of fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VampirePirate Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 My idea was to make turbulence reflect the rocket back to the enemy just like mesa's shatter shield or chroma's elemental ward (Ice). But it shouldn't do any damage to the bombard What are you're thoughts on this? That's what it's supposed to do in the first place, except cause damage also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulgazer Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Homing rockets need a maximum distance they can travel before detonating anyway so that you can actually get a chance to outrun them. Reduce their manuverability a bit too so they can't turn on a dime. That way, when they fix Zephyr's Turbulence to deflect them they'll be sent back, try to turn around, eventually run out of fuel and explode. Likely harmlessly to players. In any case, deflected missiles should be changed to a neutral faction so they can damage enemies too. I don't care that the bombard's on your team, if you get hit with and exploding missile, you should get hurt! Careful what you wish for, given the popularity of BOOM weapons among the Tenno like the Penta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abb12355 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I recently made a post about turbulence and homing rockets and what suggestions could fix this problem. Now that we know that De is fixing the hitscan problem. Let's look at the projectile problem, turbulence is basically god mode against corpus' projectiles, but what about other projectiles like fire and homing rockets, there projectiles right? Why aren't they getting deflected. I made a suggestion for homing rockets in my "Turbulence and homing rocket" post. My suggestion for fire is so be spread around the shield, basically scattering in different directions, but Zephyr should not get hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminem2420 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I support this suggestion. Zephyr needs some love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)CryZolian-13 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I'd be nice if tha reflected blast would damage enemies nearby, since when Zephyr released the description said somthing about reflecting blocked projectile back at enemies, Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abb12355 Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Yesssss, De finally, after 4 months of Zephyr suffering from hitscan weapons, it was fixed to deflect every hitscan. I seriously don't know how to thank you DE. THANK YOU SO MUCH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)eximago Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 Ok, obviously I am a Zephyr obsessed PS4 player, so it'll be a while before I can enjoy this, so someone please tell me how much of an improvement Turbulence received against hitscan weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xFayt Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 (edited) Zephyr with Turbulence flaunts through a group of Grineers. 0 damage received. Edit: Actually strike that, i remember I only tried against Corpus, but it did ignore the Moa snipers. Edited June 5, 2015 by xFayt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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